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Can fly keyword units still assault supersonic flyers? They can't fly over a gaurdsmen but they can assault a jet fighter? Who makes these rules. I demand they show themselves!

 Xenomancers wrote:
Can fly keyword units still assault supersonic flyers? They can't fly over a gaurdsmen but they can assault a jet fighter? Who makes these rules. I demand they show themselves!

It looks like jumping over units and up or down terrain outside the movement phase is the only part that change.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Can fly keyword units still assault supersonic flyers? They can't fly over a gaurdsmen but they can assault a jet fighter? Who makes these rules. I demand they show themselves!

It looks like jumping over units and up or down terrain outside the movement phase is the only part that change.

Seems to be the case. So you can actually screen ravens with gaurdsmen. Game has taken a turn for the surreal.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Can fly keyword units still assault supersonic flyers? They can't fly over a gaurdsmen but they can assault a jet fighter? Who makes these rules. I demand they show themselves!

It looks like jumping over units and up or down terrain outside the movement phase is the only part that change.

I think he is pointing out the absurdity of being able to jump/fly to fight a jet, but not being capable of charging from the ground to the first floor of a ruins, or leaping over a unit to assault something behind it.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Can fly keyword units still assault supersonic flyers? They can't fly over a gaurdsmen but they can assault a jet fighter? Who makes these rules. I demand they show themselves!

It looks like jumping over units and up or down terrain outside the movement phase is the only part that change.

Seems to be the case. So you can actually screen ravens with gaurdsmen. Game has taken a turn for the surreal.

...Letting a Monolith charge a Hemlock wasn't surreal enough?

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Can fly keyword units still assault supersonic flyers? They can't fly over a gaurdsmen but they can assault a jet fighter? Who makes these rules. I demand they show themselves!

It looks like jumping over units and up or down terrain outside the movement phase is the only part that change.

Seems to be the case. So you can actually screen ravens with gaurdsmen. Game has taken a turn for the surreal.

...Letting a Monolith charge a Hemlock wasn't surreal enough?

Neither was a Knight not being able to smash the ruins with a Knight and smash the guys inside.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Can fly keyword units still assault supersonic flyers? They can't fly over a gaurdsmen but they can assault a jet fighter? Who makes these rules. I demand they show themselves!

Ugh, I hadn't even thought about that one yet... this FAQ is starting to sound more and more like "A treatise on how to feth over assault units and armies that are not meta-defining". In the meanwhile, that LRBT can still feth over my assault Dreads standing behind a bunch of other units without penalty.

All the love GW has been giving to gunlines in the past 2 FAQs just because some top tournament players have been abusing several overpowered CC units is making me consider just dropping the gaming part of the hobby and focus on building and painting (Well, I guess I still have my Tau left...), at least until this mess is fixed... playing a game with non-overpowered CC units is simply going to be an exercise in futility and frustration.

Nerfs to <fly> units have now relegated the bad (Raptors) and garbage (warp talons) units from Chaos into the "nice models, totally unplayable" category. Well done GW.

Even before all their nerfs (warptime deepstrike in particular), Warp Talons were just 'bad'. But they've been hit with nerfs with every update, and they deserved none of them.

Currently, the models are only really usable if they were more like 12ppm (including claws), so you could bring them in enough numbers to make up for their weakness. Instead they're 27ppm, totally useless.

Basically these nerfs seem to have slightly reduced the cheapness of the imperial CP batteries and slam captains. But has massively reduced the ability for other armies to even field a decent army.

I mean, Alpha legion was the only Chaos option that doesn't require bending over to a particular chaos god. Now after the nerf, they're... I mean, they're better than Night Lords I guess, just about, but that's about all you can say about them. But seems GW want's everyone to play TS smite spam (yaaawnnnn).

 mokoshkana wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Can fly keyword units still assault supersonic flyers? They can't fly over a gaurdsmen but they can assault a jet fighter? Who makes these rules. I demand they show themselves!

It looks like jumping over units and up or down terrain outside the movement phase is the only part that change.

I think he is pointing out the absurdity of being able to jump/fly to fight a jet, but not being capable of charging from the ground to the first floor of a ruins, or leaping over a unit to assault something behind it.

Bingo! Thanks for clarifying that. This is exactly my point.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Can fly keyword units still assault supersonic flyers? They can't fly over a gaurdsmen but they can assault a jet fighter? Who makes these rules. I demand they show themselves!

It looks like jumping over units and up or down terrain outside the movement phase is the only part that change.

Seems to be the case. So you can actually screen ravens with gaurdsmen. Game has taken a turn for the surreal.

...Letting a Monolith charge a Hemlock wasn't surreal enough?

Realistically - monoliths just appear wherever they want so that doesn't break immersion for me at all. In fact - the likely event is monolith does 0 damage so...it's almost like nothing happened.

Pandabeer wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Can fly keyword units still assault supersonic flyers? They can't fly over a gaurdsmen but they can assault a jet fighter? Who makes these rules. I demand they show themselves!

Ugh, I hadn't even thought about that one yet... this FAQ is starting to sound more and more like "A treatise on how to feth over assault units and armies that are not meta-defining". In the meanwhile, that LRBT can still feth over my assault Dreads standing behind a bunch of other units without penalty.

All the love GW has been giving to gunlines in the past 2 FAQs just because some top tournament players have been abusing several overpowered CC units is making me consider just dropping the gaming part of the hobby and focus on building and painting, at least until this mess is fixed... playing a game with non-overpowered CC units is simply going to be an exercise in futility and frustration.

Gunlines are still nowhere as strong as they used to be. Mobility is king in a game that requires you to take objectives and AP values aren't as punishing to hordes (as well as the loss of blast templates).

To be fair, the change to Fly had nothing to do with "realism" and everything to do with disallowing a specific advantage that unit had.
Sometimes those rules are required for a fair game (not saying Flying charges were game breaking by any means, just that sometimes rules don't make fluff-sense because game-balance is more important)

Pandabeer wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Can fly keyword units still assault supersonic flyers? They can't fly over a gaurdsmen but they can assault a jet fighter? Who makes these rules. I demand they show themselves!

Ugh, I hadn't even thought about that one yet... this FAQ is starting to sound more and more like "A treatise on how to feth over assault units and armies that are not meta-defining". In the meanwhile, that LRBT can still feth over my assault Dreads standing behind a bunch of other units without penalty.

All the love GW has been giving to gunlines in the past 2 FAQs just because some top tournament players have been abusing several overpowered CC units is making me consider just dropping the gaming part of the hobby and focus on building and painting, at least until this mess is fixed... playing a game with non-overpowered CC units is simply going to be an exercise in futility and frustration.

I don't know if this is just my personal bias but...this is just yet another change that seems to benifit gaurd more than any other army.

 Galef wrote:
To be fair, the change to Fly had nothing to do with "realism" and everything to do with disallowing a specific advantage that unit had.
Sometimes those rules are required for a fair game (not saying Flying charges were game breaking by any means, just that sometimes rules don't make fluff-sense because game-balance is more important)

Too bad we have to be saddled with "game designers" who can't do both

 Galef wrote:
To be fair, the change to Fly had nothing to do with "realism" and everything to do with disallowing a specific advantage that unit had.
Sometimes those rules are required for a fair game (not saying Flying charges were game breaking by any means, just that sometimes rules don't make fluff-sense because game-balance is more important)

I think it's clear they are going after smash captains with this rule. It also ruins custodes biker stratagem as they can't even charge over their own units. I'd say those were their specific targets. It would have been pretty easy to target those 2 units without making such absurd rules.

Keep in mind - I am normally on the receiving end of this stuff. I think this is a pretty poor change.

Niiru wrote:
I mean, Alpha legion was the only Chaos option that doesn't require bending over to a particular chaos god. Now after the nerf, they're... I mean, they're better than Night Lords I guess, just about, but that's about all you can say about them. But seems GW want's everyone to play TS smite spam (yaaawnnnn).

The Black Legion, Iron Warriors, Night Lords and Word Bearers all say "hi". None of those require you to side with any of the gods.

Or are you claiming that AL where the only non-god aligned competitive option? Because I'd say they've been going down hill for a while now and this is nothing new. Here's hoping that the "Marine players will be happy with CA" holds true.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Pandabeer wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Can fly keyword units still assault supersonic flyers? They can't fly over a gaurdsmen but they can assault a jet fighter? Who makes these rules. I demand they show themselves!

Ugh, I hadn't even thought about that one yet... this FAQ is starting to sound more and more like "A treatise on how to feth over assault units and armies that are not meta-defining". In the meanwhile, that LRBT can still feth over my assault Dreads standing behind a bunch of other units without penalty.

All the love GW has been giving to gunlines in the past 2 FAQs just because some top tournament players have been abusing several overpowered CC units is making me consider just dropping the gaming part of the hobby and focus on building and painting, at least until this mess is fixed... playing a game with non-overpowered CC units is simply going to be an exercise in futility and frustration.

I don't know if this is just my personal bias but...this is just yet another change that seems to benifit gaurd more than any other army.

It has not been a good year for chaos daemon players

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Pandabeer wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Can fly keyword units still assault supersonic flyers? They can't fly over a gaurdsmen but they can assault a jet fighter? Who makes these rules. I demand they show themselves!

Ugh, I hadn't even thought about that one yet... this FAQ is starting to sound more and more like "A treatise on how to feth over assault units and armies that are not meta-defining". In the meanwhile, that LRBT can still feth over my assault Dreads standing behind a bunch of other units without penalty.

All the love GW has been giving to gunlines in the past 2 FAQs just because some top tournament players have been abusing several overpowered CC units is making me consider just dropping the gaming part of the hobby and focus on building and painting, at least until this mess is fixed... playing a game with non-overpowered CC units is simply going to be an exercise in futility and frustration.

Gunlines are still nowhere as strong as they used to be. Mobility is king in a game that requires you to take objectives and AP values aren't as punishing to hordes (as well as the loss of blast templates).

That mobility just got quite hamstrung by disallowing flying units to charge over screens and forcing them to take vertical distance in into account in the charge phase. IG and Tau gunline players worldwide are laughing their asses off, even with the nerf to IG CP generation.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Pandabeer wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Can fly keyword units still assault supersonic flyers? They can't fly over a gaurdsmen but they can assault a jet fighter? Who makes these rules. I demand they show themselves!

Ugh, I hadn't even thought about that one yet... this FAQ is starting to sound more and more like "A treatise on how to feth over assault units and armies that are not meta-defining". In the meanwhile, that LRBT can still feth over my assault Dreads standing behind a bunch of other units without penalty.

All the love GW has been giving to gunlines in the past 2 FAQs just because some top tournament players have been abusing several overpowered CC units is making me consider just dropping the gaming part of the hobby and focus on building and painting, at least until this mess is fixed... playing a game with non-overpowered CC units is simply going to be an exercise in futility and frustration.

I don't know if this is just my personal bias but...this is just yet another change that seems to benifit gaurd more than any other army.

Yep. Can't jump over Conscript and Guardsmen screens anymore to beat up those Manticores and Russes. Also you now have to get an extra 3-9" on your charge roll to reach those heavy weapon teams hiding in ruins with your Daemon Prince/ Death Company/ whatever.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Galef wrote:
To be fair, the change to Fly had nothing to do with "realism" and everything to do with disallowing a specific advantage that unit had.
Sometimes those rules are required for a fair game (not saying Flying charges were game breaking by any means, just that sometimes rules don't make fluff-sense because game-balance is more important)

I think it's clear they are going after smash captains with this rule. It also ruins custodes biker stratagem as they can't even charge over their own units. I'd say those were their specific targets. It would have been pretty easy to target those 2 units without making such absurd rules.

Keep in mind - I am normally on the receiving end of this stuff. I think this is a pretty poor change.

Fip belts and wraiths got the same treatment. We don't need special little exception tweaks for strong units. Remove the problem and point down the other similar units that weren't as strong.

Pandabeer wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Pandabeer wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Can fly keyword units still assault supersonic flyers? They can't fly over a gaurdsmen but they can assault a jet fighter? Who makes these rules. I demand they show themselves!

Ugh, I hadn't even thought about that one yet... this FAQ is starting to sound more and more like "A treatise on how to feth over assault units and armies that are not meta-defining". In the meanwhile, that LRBT can still feth over my assault Dreads standing behind a bunch of other units without penalty.

All the love GW has been giving to gunlines in the past 2 FAQs just because some top tournament players have been abusing several overpowered CC units is making me consider just dropping the gaming part of the hobby and focus on building and painting, at least until this mess is fixed... playing a game with non-overpowered CC units is simply going to be an exercise in futility and frustration.

Gunlines are still nowhere as strong as they used to be. Mobility is king in a game that requires you to take objectives and AP values aren't as punishing to hordes (as well as the loss of blast templates).

That mobility just got quite hamstrung by disallowing flying units to charge over screens and forcing them to take vertical distance in into account in the charge phase. IG and Tau gunline players worldwide are laughing their asses off, even with the nerf to IG CP generation.

It hampers one part of their movement (when charging), but not all movement.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Galef wrote:
To be fair, the change to Fly had nothing to do with "realism" and everything to do with disallowing a specific advantage that unit had.
Sometimes those rules are required for a fair game (not saying Flying charges were game breaking by any means, just that sometimes rules don't make fluff-sense because game-balance is more important)

I think it's clear they are going after smash captains with this rule. It also ruins custodes biker stratagem as they can't even charge over their own units. I'd say those were their specific targets. It would have been pretty easy to target those 2 units without making such absurd rules.

Keep in mind - I am normally on the receiving end of this stuff. I think this is a pretty poor change.

Fip belts and wraiths got the same treatment. We don't need special little exception tweaks for strong units. Remove the problem and point down the other similar units that weren't as strong.

Reivers are the only ones who didn't get that treatment which made me laugh a bit.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Niiru wrote:
I mean, Alpha legion was the only Chaos option that doesn't require bending over to a particular chaos god. Now after the nerf, they're... I mean, they're better than Night Lords I guess, just about, but that's about all you can say about them. But seems GW want's everyone to play TS smite spam (yaaawnnnn).

The Black Legion, Iron Warriors, Night Lords and Word Bearers all say "hi". None of those require you to side with any of the gods.

Or are you claiming that AL where the only non-god aligned competitive option? Because I'd say they've been going down hill for a while now and this is nothing new. Here's hoping that the "Marine players will be happy with CA" holds true.

This is kind of a buff to space marines. It's also a huge buff to flayed skull eldar...like OMG...did they need a buff?

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Galef wrote:
To be fair, the change to Fly had nothing to do with "realism" and everything to do with disallowing a specific advantage that unit had.
Sometimes those rules are required for a fair game (not saying Flying charges were game breaking by any means, just that sometimes rules don't make fluff-sense because game-balance is more important)

I think it's clear they are going after smash captains with this rule. It also ruins custodes biker stratagem as they can't even charge over their own units. I'd say those were their specific targets. It would have been pretty easy to target those 2 units without making such absurd rules.

Keep in mind - I am normally on the receiving end of this stuff. I think this is a pretty poor change.

It also nerfs the 20 attack jump pack Rune Priest, and Shining Spears.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Galef wrote:
To be fair, the change to Fly had nothing to do with "realism" and everything to do with disallowing a specific advantage that unit had.
Sometimes those rules are required for a fair game (not saying Flying charges were game breaking by any means, just that sometimes rules don't make fluff-sense because game-balance is more important)

I think it's clear they are going after smash captains with this rule. It also ruins custodes biker stratagem as they can't even charge over their own units. I'd say those were their specific targets. It would have been pretty easy to target those 2 units without making such absurd rules.

Keep in mind - I am normally on the receiving end of this stuff. I think this is a pretty poor change.

Fip belts and wraiths got the same treatment. We don't need special little exception tweaks for strong units. Remove the problem and point down the other similar units that weren't as strong.

Come on man. The issue is a smash captain busting 4 stratagems and doing 30 damage to a knight in 1 turn. Not being able to jump over gaurdsmen and 1 shot a russ. THAT is what he should be doing.

Stratagem stacking is the problem with that unit. Custodes bikes issues is you fight first in the opponents assault phase with the stratagem. That is how you fix those units. Man changes have been proposed and ignored and as a result we have trash rules. Thank you for your time.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Galef wrote:
To be fair, the change to Fly had nothing to do with "realism" and everything to do with disallowing a specific advantage that unit had.
Sometimes those rules are required for a fair game (not saying Flying charges were game breaking by any means, just that sometimes rules don't make fluff-sense because game-balance is more important)

I think it's clear they are going after smash captains with this rule. It also ruins custodes biker stratagem as they can't even charge over their own units. I'd say those were their specific targets. It would have been pretty easy to target those 2 units without making such absurd rules.

Keep in mind - I am normally on the receiving end of this stuff. I think this is a pretty poor change.

Fip belts and wraiths got the same treatment. We don't need special little exception tweaks for strong units. Remove the problem and point down the other similar units that weren't as strong.

Come on man. The issue is a smash captain busting 4 stratagems and doing 30 damage to a knight in 1 turn. Not being able to jump over gaurdsmen and 1 shot a russ. THAT is what he should be doing.

Stratagem stacking is the problem with that unit. Custodes bikes issues is you fight first in the opponents charge phase. That is how you fix those units. Man changes have been proposed and ignored and as a result we have trash rules. Thank you for your time.

He was also jumping over Guard and one shot-ing a Knight.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Galef wrote:
To be fair, the change to Fly had nothing to do with "realism" and everything to do with disallowing a specific advantage that unit had.
Sometimes those rules are required for a fair game (not saying Flying charges were game breaking by any means, just that sometimes rules don't make fluff-sense because game-balance is more important)

I think it's clear they are going after smash captains with this rule. It also ruins custodes biker stratagem as they can't even charge over their own units. I'd say those were their specific targets. It would have been pretty easy to target those 2 units without making such absurd rules.

Keep in mind - I am normally on the receiving end of this stuff. I think this is a pretty poor change.

It also nerfs the 20 attack jump pack Rune Priest, and Shining Spears.

Yeah it does - there is no doubting that. Wrong way to do it though. Spears are undercosted and their psychic powers need some twerking (range and psychic denial seem to be the issue there) - IDK what you are talking about RP - They can only take 3 max anyways. All JP units are nerfed too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Galef wrote:
To be fair, the change to Fly had nothing to do with "realism" and everything to do with disallowing a specific advantage that unit had.
Sometimes those rules are required for a fair game (not saying Flying charges were game breaking by any means, just that sometimes rules don't make fluff-sense because game-balance is more important)

I think it's clear they are going after smash captains with this rule. It also ruins custodes biker stratagem as they can't even charge over their own units. I'd say those were their specific targets. It would have been pretty easy to target those 2 units without making such absurd rules.

Keep in mind - I am normally on the receiving end of this stuff. I think this is a pretty poor change.

Fip belts and wraiths got the same treatment. We don't need special little exception tweaks for strong units. Remove the problem and point down the other similar units that weren't as strong.

Come on man. The issue is a smash captain busting 4 stratagems and doing 30 damage to a knight in 1 turn. Not being able to jump over gaurdsmen and 1 shot a russ. THAT is what he should be doing.

Stratagem stacking is the problem with that unit. Custodes bikes issues is you fight first in the opponents charge phase. That is how you fix those units. Man changes have been proposed and ignored and as a result we have trash rules. Thank you for your time.

He was also jumping over Guard and one shot-ing a Knight.

So it's okay that he murders a knight in the open ? These giant knights sure are fragile...

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Pandabeer wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Can fly keyword units still assault supersonic flyers? They can't fly over a gaurdsmen but they can assault a jet fighter? Who makes these rules. I demand they show themselves!

Ugh, I hadn't even thought about that one yet... this FAQ is starting to sound more and more like "A treatise on how to feth over assault units and armies that are not meta-defining". In the meanwhile, that LRBT can still feth over my assault Dreads standing behind a bunch of other units without penalty.

All the love GW has been giving to gunlines in the past 2 FAQs just because some top tournament players have been abusing several overpowered CC units is making me consider just dropping the gaming part of the hobby and focus on building and painting, at least until this mess is fixed... playing a game with non-overpowered CC units is simply going to be an exercise in futility and frustration.

Gunlines are still nowhere as strong as they used to be. Mobility is king in a game that requires you to take objectives and AP values aren't as punishing to hordes (as well as the loss of blast templates).

mobility means nothing if you have nothing to move after ur opponent shot you out of table, and not all play with ITC missions where you score points often turn by turn, some formats give you points at game end and if you have nothing to get those points well... bye bye

Niiru wrote:
Nerfs to <fly> units have now relegated the bad (Raptors) and garbage (warp talons) units from Chaos into the "nice models, totally unplayable" category. Well done GW.

Even before all their nerfs (warptime deepstrike in particular), Warp Talons were just 'bad'. But they've been hit with nerfs with every update, and they deserved none of them.

Currently, the models are only really usable if they were more like 12ppm (including claws), so you could bring them in enough numbers to make up for their weakness. Instead they're 27ppm, totally useless.

Basically these nerfs seem to have slightly reduced the cheapness of the imperial CP batteries and slam captains. But has massively reduced the ability for other armies to even field a decent army.

I mean, Alpha legion was the only Chaos option that doesn't require bending over to a particular chaos god. Now after the nerf, they're... I mean, they're better than Night Lords I guess, just about, but that's about all you can say about them. But seems GW want's everyone to play TS smite spam (yaaawnnnn).

I hadn't thought of that. But you make a great point. Warp Talons have been unintentionally nerfed into nothingness.

 blackmage wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Pandabeer wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Can fly keyword units still assault supersonic flyers? They can't fly over a gaurdsmen but they can assault a jet fighter? Who makes these rules. I demand they show themselves!

Ugh, I hadn't even thought about that one yet... this FAQ is starting to sound more and more like "A treatise on how to feth over assault units and armies that are not meta-defining". In the meanwhile, that LRBT can still feth over my assault Dreads standing behind a bunch of other units without penalty.

All the love GW has been giving to gunlines in the past 2 FAQs just because some top tournament players have been abusing several overpowered CC units is making me consider just dropping the gaming part of the hobby and focus on building and painting, at least until this mess is fixed... playing a game with non-overpowered CC units is simply going to be an exercise in futility and frustration.

Gunlines are still nowhere as strong as they used to be. Mobility is king in a game that requires you to take objectives and AP values aren't as punishing to hordes (as well as the loss of blast templates).

mobility means nothing if you have nothing to move after ur opponent shot you out of table, and not all play with ITC missions where you score points often turn by turn, some formats give you points at game end and if you have nothing to get those points well... bye bye

ITC is just house rule 40k - we all know that.

Easy solution without these clunky rules. Leave fly/flip belts/etc alone. Change charge. All charges must be measured from base to base (or hull as applicable). Problem solved.

Points Changes WERE addressed in the Big FAQ by making a Chapter Approved errata.

 blackmage wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Pandabeer wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Can fly keyword units still assault supersonic flyers? They can't fly over a gaurdsmen but they can assault a jet fighter? Who makes these rules. I demand they show themselves!

Ugh, I hadn't even thought about that one yet... this FAQ is starting to sound more and more like "A treatise on how to feth over assault units and armies that are not meta-defining". In the meanwhile, that LRBT can still feth over my assault Dreads standing behind a bunch of other units without penalty.

All the love GW has been giving to gunlines in the past 2 FAQs just because some top tournament players have been abusing several overpowered CC units is making me consider just dropping the gaming part of the hobby and focus on building and painting, at least until this mess is fixed... playing a game with non-overpowered CC units is simply going to be an exercise in futility and frustration.

Gunlines are still nowhere as strong as they used to be. Mobility is king in a game that requires you to take objectives and AP values aren't as punishing to hordes (as well as the loss of blast templates).

mobility means nothing if you have nothing to move after ur opponent shot you out of table, and not all play with ITC missions where you score points often turn by turn, some formats give you points at game end and if you have nothing to get those points well... bye bye

With the changes to AP, most armies are stronger against shooting than they were before. About the only ones suffering against shooting compared to the past are MEQ and TEQ models.