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Hi everyone, I just want to talk about the Big FAQ 2.

Yes, there are good parts to the FAQ. I'll run through the main parts of it as presented in the Warhammer Community article, and feel free to disagree with me - just please don't be offensive.


Battle Brothers is official now, which is good.


The Fly nerf, which is basicallt FLY that can only work in the Movement phase, is terrible, however. Yes, they should not be able to get 0" charges off, but that doesn't mean they should not be able to charge OVER BUBBLE WRAP. As it stands, my Harlequins army will run into conscript bubble wrap, which will fall back and tanks behind it will blow the assault up. Then rinse and repeat. The intention is good, but this needs to be addressed.


From what I gather around the internet, Blood Angels players are riled up and utterly annoyed at what they consider to be the death of them - the new Tactical Reserves rule.
This states that you cannot Deep Strike ANYTHING Turn 1, even in your deployment zone - including Genestealer Cults. They still have to be on the board by Turn 3, though. Previously, they could Deep Strike in the Deployment Zone.

Obviously, the FLY nerf hit them pretty hard, if not worse, as well. Another reason this needs to be addressed.



There is a new Stratagem available - Prepared Positions. This puts every single unit (except Titanic ones) in your deployment zone officially in cover for the entirety of Turn 1. This strat can only be used if you go second.


Tactical Restraint is the final one. This rule states that you are capable of only recovering 1CP per Battle Round, regardless of source, unless you have something like Player of the Twilight.


So, in my opinion, this FAQ buffs AM. Yes, the CP farms are nerfed. General consensus, however, seems to be that it doesn't really matter to soup lists as the sheer amount of CP they start with is the problem.

I personally think that we will see bubble wrap lists appear for the AM. Lots of tanks, wrapped up in lots of conscripts. no way to charge the tanks behind for a couple of turns due to the mistake with the FLY rule, so the Tanks have a decent chance.

But what are your opinions?

Eldar seem to get relativly untouched. No idea about the high end tournament players, they will probablly change some stuff in their lists. But locally non of the eldar players we have are in a rush to buy new stuff.

No idea what BA players are going to do post FAQ. I hope for them that some sort of list is doable out of their codex. And when I say list, I mean an actual one, not taking an ultramarine list and playing a weaker clone of it.

tournament players, specially those high end ones seem to be happy. The rest as long as their army didn't get nerfed too much, seem to be ok with the changes too. Plus there is orc players who ignore the FAQ till their codex drops. So going by population of all people playing, the FAQ seems at worse recived as ok.

Karol wrote:
Eldar seem to get relativly untouched. No idea about the high end tournament players, they will probablly change some stuff in their lists. But locally non of the eldar players we have are in a rush to buy new stuff.

No idea what BA players are going to do post FAQ. I hope for them that some sort of list is doable out of their codex. And when I say list, I mean an actual one, not taking an ultramarine list and playing a weaker clone of it.

tournament players, specially those high end ones seem to be happy. The rest as long as their army didn't get nerfed too much, seem to be ok with the changes too. Plus there is orc players who ignore the FAQ till their codex drops. So going by population of all people playing, the FAQ seems at worse recived as ok.

I hope you're right. Perhaps I'm just annoyed because the only good thing about Harlequins - the fact that I can charge over bubble wrap - got removed, thus making me on-par tournament-scene as something like Necrons.

Maybe we'll get some consolation in Chapter Approved (when'll they fix the ridiculous Neuro Disruptor?) but I'm not too hopeful. Should they implement this rule fully, I should hope that they get rid of the mistake.

Next Saturday I will have my first match after this FAQ. Will play with the changes.

I don't like the Fly change but now I think it is similar to Kill Teams. Ok nothing to do with this.

I like that they stoped the CP farm, but they needed to apply that only who generate the CP can use the CP.

Have to read it some more time.

Just played my first game with the new FAQ and, with a sample size of 1 game, the Fly change is utter, utter gak. I was using Necrons and all of my assault units have the Fly keyword, or, in the case of Wraiths, basically have Fly to all intents and purposes (which has also been nerfed). I couldn't physically charge a large number of my opponent's units because they were in the first floor of a building and Wraiths, Command Barges and Tomb Blades can't actually charge into the upper floors of buildings any more as a result of this rule. All my rapid assault was basically neutered by standing one floor off the ground.

My Blood Angels are equallt screwed, I think, if not more so. No flying over screening units, making chaff even better thant hey already are and further reducing the importance of positioning when facing an assault army. Now all you have to do is put a unit in front of your army and I can't do anything about it. You don't have to worry about jumping over them to get at the character buffing them behind, or even locking a unit in combat because I can't jump to the rear of a unit to keep them locked up.

My biggest concern about the FAQ though, is that GW claimed soup is still off the menu, which strongly implies they don't even understand what the problem with sou is. If they think the Battle Brothers rule prevents soup I fear for the future of the game since that indicates a huge misunderstanding of the problems in the game.

Dropping in with a casual players input, im quite pleased with the faq.

Limiting the CP regen is one of my favourites. The amount of games ive played where an opponent had spammed stratagems and by turn 4 still have their starting amount or close to it has been a real downer. Hoping this levels that particular playing field a bit more.

The change to fly diesnt really affect me. My only fly unit (seraphim) dont want to be in combat. I only learned the other day that Celestine could jump over units in charge because someone tried to pull it on me (rolled snake eyes, heheh) and i was interested to see how this would chamge the way i field her as i had alwats treated her as not able to jump over things in charges. Now this change has come so it makes no difference to me as its just back to the way ive alwats played it.

New stratagem is a god send. A little more able to handle first turn shooting. Thank you very much.

Overall, quite pleased.

I am an employee at a store, and I play a metric ton of 40k games, both to introduce people to the game and as part of our gaming group. In my non-introduction 40k games, I have yet to lose with my Guard army in six months. This FAQ only makes me better(I wasn't relying on CP growing anyway), and the general consensus amongst the group here (and myself) is that the FAQ is mostly dirt trash.

My Sisters army is harmed if only because it is very elite and required being able to do damage turn one. The second player's ability to improve their survivability against my already short ranged, hard-pressed shooting is very annoying.

Indeed, smaller/elite armies are just smacked in the jaw by the new strategem. They tend to go firs and the strategem is only available to the player who goes second in the first battle roundt; this is an indirect huge buff to Hordes in an edition where Hordes are king.

We sold some Infinity starter sets, so maybe some will start playing that.

Slipspace wrote:
Just played my first game with the new FAQ and, with a sample size of 1 game, the Fly change is utter, utter gak. I was using Necrons and all of my assault units have the Fly keyword, or, in the case of Wraiths, basically have Fly to all intents and purposes (which has also been nerfed). I couldn't physically charge a large number of my opponent's units because they were in the first floor of a building and Wraiths, Command Barges and Tomb Blades can't actually charge into the upper floors of buildings any more as a result of this rule. All my rapid assault was basically neutered by standing one floor off the ground.

My Blood Angels are equallt screwed, I think, if not more so. No flying over screening units, making chaff even better thant hey already are and further reducing the importance of positioning when facing an assault army. Now all you have to do is put a unit in front of your army and I can't do anything about it. You don't have to worry about jumping over them to get at the character buffing them behind, or even locking a unit in combat because I can't jump to the rear of a unit to keep them locked up.

My biggest concern about the FAQ though, is that GW claimed soup is still off the menu, which strongly implies they don't even understand what the problem with sou is. If they think the Battle Brothers rule prevents soup I fear for the future of the game since that indicates a huge misunderstanding of the problems in the game.

Were you just not able to make the charge roll? Not sure I understand here.

On another point, I definitely don't understand this community's hatred for allies. Will never get it...

Lemondish wrote:

Were you just not able to make the charge roll? Not sure I understand here.

On another point, I definitely don't understand this community's hatred for allies. Will never get it...

If I had to make some guesses, it comes down to the following:
1- Not all factions have access to them. While this means I think such codexes tend to stand on their own better, they fall to the wayside against Soup.
2- Without them, large swathes of the Imperial line are tremendously weaker Codex to Codex compared to others. Soup or die becomes reality, which is annoying to people who live certain factions.
3- While in theory opening up army construction, clear efficiencies and winners actually winnow down 'competitive' options. This is just boring.

Lemondish wrote:

Slipspace wrote:
Just played my first game with the new FAQ and, with a sample size of 1 game, the Fly change is utter, utter gak. I was using Necrons and all of my assault units have the Fly keyword, or, in the case of Wraiths, basically have Fly to all intents and purposes (which has also been nerfed). I couldn't physically charge a large number of my opponent's units because they were in the first floor of a building and Wraiths, Command Barges and Tomb Blades can't actually charge into the upper floors of buildings any more as a result of this rule. All my rapid assault was basically neutered by standing one floor off the ground.

My Blood Angels are equallt screwed, I think, if not more so. No flying over screening units, making chaff even better thant hey already are and further reducing the importance of positioning when facing an assault army. Now all you have to do is put a unit in front of your army and I can't do anything about it. You don't have to worry about jumping over them to get at the character buffing them behind, or even locking a unit in combat because I can't jump to the rear of a unit to keep them locked up.

My biggest concern about the FAQ though, is that GW claimed soup is still off the menu, which strongly implies they don't even understand what the problem with sou is. If they think the Battle Brothers rule prevents soup I fear for the future of the game since that indicates a huge misunderstanding of the problems in the game.

Were you just not able to make the charge roll? Not sure I understand here.

On another point, I definitely don't understand this community's hatred for allies. Will never get it...

I can't remember the exact rule, but I believe the problem is that non-infantry models can't walk through ruins/buildings. They have to fly up and land where they want to go (if they have the ability to fly). But now that you can't fly in the charge phase, it means that hiding in ruins will completely prevent them from being able to attack you.

Also means that a cheap blob of 10 conscripts, can stand in a line in front of a tank, and totally prevent the heldrake 500 meters above them from diving down and attacking.

IG troops are once again (well, they already were, but now even more so) the best troops in the game.

Which is why everyone hates allies. I mean it's more specific than that, noone minds allies for Eldar or Chaos really, it's just the Imperial allies that everyone hates, because they're too cheap and too powerful. To the point that GW keep putting out changes to nerf them... except the nerfs always end up hurting other armies way more than they hurt the Imperials, which means that they remain the strongest option.

Lemondish wrote:

Slipspace wrote:
Just played my first game with the new FAQ and, with a sample size of 1 game, the Fly change is utter, utter gak. I was using Necrons and all of my assault units have the Fly keyword, or, in the case of Wraiths, basically have Fly to all intents and purposes (which has also been nerfed). I couldn't physically charge a large number of my opponent's units because they were in the first floor of a building and Wraiths, Command Barges and Tomb Blades can't actually charge into the upper floors of buildings any more as a result of this rule. All my rapid assault was basically neutered by standing one floor off the ground.

My Blood Angels are equallt screwed, I think, if not more so. No flying over screening units, making chaff even better thant hey already are and further reducing the importance of positioning when facing an assault army. Now all you have to do is put a unit in front of your army and I can't do anything about it. You don't have to worry about jumping over them to get at the character buffing them behind, or even locking a unit in combat because I can't jump to the rear of a unit to keep them locked up.

My biggest concern about the FAQ though, is that GW claimed soup is still off the menu, which strongly implies they don't even understand what the problem with sou is. If they think the Battle Brothers rule prevents soup I fear for the future of the game since that indicates a huge misunderstanding of the problems in the game.

Were you just not able to make the charge roll? Not sure I understand here.

On another point, I definitely don't understand this community's hatred for allies. Will never get it...

I couldn't even attempt the charge. Bikes and Beasts (which is what Wraiths are) can't go through the walls of ruins like infantry can and can't go up levels in ruins either, though flying units used to be able to get around that. The new rules for Fly simply made my units inoperative - you no longer use your flying movement in the charge phase, only the Movement phase. If your flying units are infantry that's annoying, but if they're not infantry they are now massively limited in what they can do. Given GW's inability to understand what the problem is with soup, I'm not confident they understand the ramifications of the rules they're changing.

Yeah, the Fly change is the only bit I dislike (bubble wrap was already absurdly annoying, this makes it next level irritating) but it's pretty much offset for me by the prepared position stratagem. That is 100% what 8th has needed since release.

Let's think about it another way... the FLY keyword was incredibly powerful. This change makes units without FLY and units with FLY a little closer in power and utility.

Is that bad?

One of the weird things to me is that GW keep releasing models without FLY. There's a metric ton of footslogging units that have come out recently. Perhaps they think infantry and flying dudes should be closer in power and utility?

BTW forget the models you own - nobody gives a flying sh1t about them when balancing/amending the rules

Please read the Fly rule.
Now read the Ruins rule.

You do not lose the Fly keyword in the charge phase. You lose the ability to ignore terrain.

You can still move vertically.

The combination of the CP generation nerf and many of the most popular stratagems going up in CP cost...

And here's the thing, many of those things that would give you a CP only give it to you on a 5+ or 6+. People will still take them because getting 1 CP a battle round is better than getting 0, and you could fail several rolls before you actually get the benefit of that CP farm anyway. It only stops people from getting 3+ CP in a battle round from hot rolling. But getting those 4-6 CP (depending on battle length) on top of the 20 you've already gotten from your detachments, still means you have plenty to spend on all those OP stratagems.

I see nothing changing.

You should do the math then, because it takes 9 to keep a castellan on 3++ plus what a captain uses and you're almost out.

You can count on 3 extra during important turns.

 Silentz wrote:
Let's think about it another way... the FLY keyword was incredibly powerful. This change makes units without FLY and units with FLY a little closer in power and utility.

Is that bad?

One of the weird things to me is that GW keep releasing models without FLY. There's a metric ton of footslogging units that have come out recently. Perhaps they think infantry and flying dudes should be closer in power and utility?

BTW forget the models you own - nobody gives a flying sh1t about them when balancing/amending the rules

Fly has been very strong this edition, but it is good in many different ways that don't apply evenly to the units that have it.
-Units with Fly and a primary ranged weapon use it mainly to fall back without being tied in CC. That's a very strong counter to a very strong core rule.
-Units with Fly and a primary melee weapon used it to jump over enemy models to better position for long charges, making room for other chargers, and circling enemies. A very powerful counter to screening with a gap between units.
-Units with both types of weapons get more out of the keyword and should be charged for it more than pure melee or ranged.
-Units with Fly that take up a large space and are rarely in the front line use it to avoid environmental damage (which I haven't seen anyone playing with since dangerous terrain is less obvious than 7th but there are sill entries in the brb about it) or navigate obstacles that would prevent movement like allied models or scratch terrain.

So yes fly is powerful, moreso for some than others. For example CSM raptors like being able to tie enemies and then fall back to shoot with special weapons while warp talons can only fight in CC. The difference in usefulness of Fly might be why raptors are 2ppm higher base then warp talons. Finally if they can't jump over enemies and aren't huge models (infantry even, so ruins shenanigans don't matter) what is the use of fly on them?

I played my first games today with the new FAQ. The first game, nothing of note relating to the FAQ came up. The second game, I was testing for a big event and I requested to play against IG cp battery/IK. A conga line of guardsmen almost stopped my DP from charging the Dominus. Just a line of little dudes straight across.
I had to use my Helverins to clear the way, thanks to rolling poorly I had to use both Helverins. I was not a fan of having to use the Helverins to kill guardsmen.
It's a very awkward, very poorly written rule. I'm not sure if they were trying to target DP's/BA captains with this rule. But it worked, they made fly charging not a thing anymore.
It makes me reconsider running DP's at all.

 Silentz wrote:
Let's think about it another way... the FLY keyword was incredibly powerful. This change makes units without FLY and units with FLY a little closer in power and utility.

Is that bad?

One of the weird things to me is that GW keep releasing models without FLY. There's a metric ton of footslogging units that have come out recently. Perhaps they think infantry and flying dudes should be closer in power and utility?

BTW forget the models you own - nobody gives a flying sh1t about them when balancing/amending the rules

The real problem here is that anything CC focused that's bigger than infantry cannot interact with anything hiding in a building. FLY was a bandaid to get around that, but that's just been removed. Result: your Guardsmen hiding in a ruin are now completely immune to that Bloodthirster just outside the building, completely ignoring the fact that in reality that Bloodthirster would just grab a handful of Guardsmen out of the building with each strike, easily destroying any walls or bars between it and it's prey, and crush them into red paste. Or it would just smash the entire building causing it to collapse on top of the Guardsmen.

My personal solution would be to introduce rules that make terrain destructible (just give them a T, W and Armor save depending on size) and (possible) adverse affect if you're in them or in close proximity when they collapse/ explode so as to introduce some risk in hiding inside or behind them. Currently hiding in a building gives a massive advantage and no penalty whatsoever and IMO that needs to change.

As for flying over screening units during a charge, simply let the charging unit take a penalty to charge distance. You need extra energy to reach the extra height required to jump over them so it would make logical sense (as most FLY keyword users basically move by making huge jetpack- or wing-assisted jumps, barring actual planes and stuff like Heldrakes.). Disallowing jump-charging completely just makes screens stupidly strong.

 chimeara wrote:

It makes me reconsider running DP's at all.

That would be fool hardy considering they're still quite powerful and they do move quickly without wings.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 chimeara wrote:

It makes me reconsider running DP's at all.

That would be fool hardy considering they're still quite powerful and they do move quickly without wings.

Well, the biggest reason to take them is still their increased CC prowess over a standard Chaos Lord, and their former ability to mostly ignore screens. If you want a Psyker Sorcerers are far better, and for the reroll aura Chaos Lords are more cost-effective. The Daemon Prince is, for all intents and purposes, a beatstick, and it's ability to perform that role has just been severely neutered.

As has been said before, I hardly imagine GW has even thought of the huge ramifications that this rule has, it was a nerf solely aimed at Smash Captains that could one-shot a Knight T1 while burning a ton of CP to do so but the only thing it really achieved is rendering the only viable non-infantry CC units (with the FLY keyword) completely unusable. And with that buffing shooting EVEN MORE, in most cases CC already was inferior to shooting.

Pandabeer wrote:
As has been said before, I hardly imagine GW has even thought of the huge ramifications that this rule has, it was a nerf solely aimed at Smash Captains that could one-shot a Knight T1 while burning a ton of CP to do so but the only thing it really achieved is rendering the only viable non-infantry CC units (with the FLY keyword) completely unusable. And with that buffing shooting EVEN MORE, in most cases CC already was inferior to shooting.

Apparently, according to the community article, it was to stop 0" charges from DS by abusing the way you ignored vertical distances, but knowing GW it was likely a combination of factors that came down to them applying it this way.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Pandabeer wrote:
As has been said before, I hardly imagine GW has even thought of the huge ramifications that this rule has, it was a nerf solely aimed at Smash Captains that could one-shot a Knight T1 while burning a ton of CP to do so but the only thing it really achieved is rendering the only viable non-infantry CC units (with the FLY keyword) completely unusable. And with that buffing shooting EVEN MORE, in most cases CC already was inferior to shooting.

Apparently, according to the community article, it was to stop 0" charges from DS by abusing the way you ignored vertical distances, but knowing GW it was likely a combination of factors that came down to them applying it this way.

Except the rule does nothing to stop that. You can still make 0" charges from DS, you just can't fly over other models to do so.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Pandabeer wrote:
As has been said before, I hardly imagine GW has even thought of the huge ramifications that this rule has, it was a nerf solely aimed at Smash Captains that could one-shot a Knight T1 while burning a ton of CP to do so but the only thing it really achieved is rendering the only viable non-infantry CC units (with the FLY keyword) completely unusable. And with that buffing shooting EVEN MORE, in most cases CC already was inferior to shooting.

Apparently, according to the community article, it was to stop 0" charges from DS by abusing the way you ignored vertical distances, but knowing GW it was likely a combination of factors that came down to them applying it this way.

Except the rule does nothing to stop that. You can still make 0" charges from DS, you just can't fly over other models to do so.

You no longer ignore terrain or vertical movement like you did when charging, so no you can't do a 0" charge.

Unless your Reivers or Grey Knight Interceptors (depending on their rules).

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Pandabeer wrote:
As has been said before, I hardly imagine GW has even thought of the huge ramifications that this rule has, it was a nerf solely aimed at Smash Captains that could one-shot a Knight T1 while burning a ton of CP to do so but the only thing it really achieved is rendering the only viable non-infantry CC units (with the FLY keyword) completely unusable. And with that buffing shooting EVEN MORE, in most cases CC already was inferior to shooting.

Apparently, according to the community article, it was to stop 0" charges from DS by abusing the way you ignored vertical distances, but knowing GW it was likely a combination of factors that came down to them applying it this way.

Except the rule does nothing to stop that. You can still make 0" charges from DS, you just can't fly over other models to do so.

You no longer ignore terrain or vertical movement like you did when charging, so no you can't do a 0" charge.

Unless your Reivers or Grey Knight Interceptors (depending on their rules).

Oh, I see they removed that FAQ. Interesting stuff. I wish it was a little clearer when they removed entries from the FAQs.

 chimeara wrote:
I played my first games today with the new FAQ. The first game, nothing of note relating to the FAQ came up. The second game, I was testing for a big event and I requested to play against IG cp battery/IK. A conga line of guardsmen almost stopped my DP from charging the Dominus. Just a line of little dudes straight across.
I had to use my Helverins to clear the way, thanks to rolling poorly I had to use both Helverins. I was not a fan of having to use the Helverins to kill guardsmen.
It's a very awkward, very poorly written rule. I'm not sure if they were trying to target DP's/BA captains with this rule. But it worked, they made fly charging not a thing anymore.
It makes me reconsider running DP's at all.

1) So you're complaining about shooting up infantry with what's essentially an anti-infantry/anti-light vehicle weapon?
2) Something prevents you from simply flying over those IG in the movement step? And THEN charging the Dominus?
3) Well, since you were testing for an upcoming event, I guess you learned that you're going to have to modify your attack plan. So it was a successful test.

Slipspace wrote:
Just played my first game with the new FAQ and, with a sample size of 1 game, the Fly change is utter, utter gak. I was using Necrons and all of my assault units have the Fly keyword, or, in the case of Wraiths, basically have Fly to all intents and purposes (which has also been nerfed). I couldn't physically charge a large number of my opponent's units because they were in the first floor of a building and Wraiths, Command Barges and Tomb Blades can't actually charge into the upper floors of buildings any more as a result of this rule. All my rapid assault was basically neutered by standing one floor off the ground.

My Blood Angels are equallt screwed, I think, if not more so. No flying over screening units, making chaff even better thant hey already are and further reducing the importance of positioning when facing an assault army. Now all you have to do is put a unit in front of your army and I can't do anything about it. You don't have to worry about jumping over them to get at the character buffing them behind, or even locking a unit in combat because I can't jump to the rear of a unit to keep them locked up.

My biggest concern about the FAQ though, is that GW claimed soup is still off the menu, which strongly implies they don't even understand what the problem with sou is. If they think the Battle Brothers rule prevents soup I fear for the future of the game since that indicates a huge misunderstanding of the problems in the game.

The thing to do here is to slow down, go back and re-read the rules again. The rules interactions have changed so you have to go back to the beginning.

Read the rules on ruins on page 248 again. Can your Wraiths, Barges and Tomb Blades Fly? Note the bold text, that means that you should check if they have the Fly keyword. Yes they do.

Now look at the rules change on Fly. Only in the movement phase do you ignore intervening models and terrain, you no longer ignore these things in the charge phase. The Fly keyword is in no way removed, only those specific effects of the Fly keyword outside of the Movement phase. They still have the Fly keyword, the restriction on ending moves on ground level still does not apply to them in any phase of the game in which they move.

So each of those units still has the ability to go to higher levels of ruins whether in the movement phase or the charge phase. What has changed is that now they must pay the movement cost for doing so - typically that will be an additional 3" required on charging up to the first level of ruins. That definitely makes Fly assault units a bit less good because they now need to roll the same distance to make the charge as anything else but it does not invalidate them.

Please also note that only Vehicles, Monsters and Bikes have issues with higher levels of ruins anyway, I have had to ask more than one opponent to go back and actually read the rules when they have claimed my Kroot Hounds are unable to spend 3" of movement to climb up a level of ruins. Nowhere in that rule did it ever say that Beasts - such as Wraiths - can only end their movement on the ground level. A common misunderstanding easily fixed by reading the rule properly.

The way that people talk about Blood Angels you would think that they had Jump Packs baked into the base cost of every single model in their codex and all shooting options had been removed. Neither of those is actually the case and my reading of the codex was that it is a pretty balanced all-round Marine force with a bit of extra oomph in the fight phase and a couple of extra units well placed to take advantage of that. BA will tend to behave more like other marines in general now, that is not super great for BA players because generic marines are not in a super great position in top tournament play but their howls of rage at having their whole codex rendered unplayable just look like the usual over-reaction to change.

The prevalence of cheap chaff and the Fly nerf is essentially the nightmare scenario for BA and daemon players, I cannot imagine the frustration of being a Daemon player having to against a gunline with heavy weapons standing on top of ruins and chaffs lined up at the bottom.

ShaneMarsh wrote:
I am an employee at a store, and I play a metric ton of 40k games, both to introduce people to the game and as part of our gaming group. In my non-introduction 40k games, I have yet to lose with my Guard army in six months. This FAQ only makes me better(I wasn't relying on CP growing anyway), and the general consensus amongst the group here (and myself) is that the FAQ is mostly dirt trash.

My Sisters army is harmed if only because it is very elite and required being able to do damage turn one. The second player's ability to improve their survivability against my already short ranged, hard-pressed shooting is very annoying.

Indeed, smaller/elite armies are just smacked in the jaw by the new strategem. They tend to go firs and the strategem is only available to the player who goes second in the first battle roundt; this is an indirect huge buff to Hordes in an edition where Hordes are king.

We sold some Infinity starter sets, so maybe some will start playing that.

Sisters is kind of a wash TBH +1 to save only makes a difference to melta is you were already rocking a 3+ or better and that's really the only thing you were getting to hit with first turn. Sure some tanks will get a 6+ they didn't have before but that's not really that big of a deal. In exchange you can mitigate how weak sisters tend to be to alphastrike themselves a decent amount, especially for our infantry.

Little up, little down.

happy_inquisitor wrote:

Slipspace wrote:
Just played my first game with the new FAQ and, with a sample size of 1 game, the Fly change is utter, utter gak. I was using Necrons and all of my assault units have the Fly keyword, or, in the case of Wraiths, basically have Fly to all intents and purposes (which has also been nerfed). I couldn't physically charge a large number of my opponent's units because they were in the first floor of a building and Wraiths, Command Barges and Tomb Blades can't actually charge into the upper floors of buildings any more as a result of this rule. All my rapid assault was basically neutered by standing one floor off the ground.

My Blood Angels are equallt screwed, I think, if not more so. No flying over screening units, making chaff even better thant hey already are and further reducing the importance of positioning when facing an assault army. Now all you have to do is put a unit in front of your army and I can't do anything about it. You don't have to worry about jumping over them to get at the character buffing them behind, or even locking a unit in combat because I can't jump to the rear of a unit to keep them locked up.

My biggest concern about the FAQ though, is that GW claimed soup is still off the menu, which strongly implies they don't even understand what the problem with sou is. If they think the Battle Brothers rule prevents soup I fear for the future of the game since that indicates a huge misunderstanding of the problems in the game.

The thing to do here is to slow down, go back and re-read the rules again. The rules interactions have changed so you have to go back to the beginning.

Read the rules on ruins on page 248 again. Can your Wraiths, Barges and Tomb Blades Fly? Note the bold text, that means that you should check if they have the Fly keyword. Yes they do.

Now look at the rules change on Fly. Only in the movement phase do you ignore intervening models and terrain, you no longer ignore these things in the charge phase. The Fly keyword is in no way removed, only those specific effects of the Fly keyword outside of the Movement phase. They still have the Fly keyword, the restriction on ending moves on ground level still does not apply to them in any phase of the game in which they move.

So each of those units still has the ability to go to higher levels of ruins whether in the movement phase or the charge phase. What has changed is that now they must pay the movement cost for doing so - typically that will be an additional 3" required on charging up to the first level of ruins. That definitely makes Fly assault units a bit less good because they now need to roll the same distance to make the charge as anything else but it does not invalidate them.

Please also note that only Vehicles, Monsters and Bikes have issues with higher levels of ruins anyway, I have had to ask more than one opponent to go back and actually read the rules when they have claimed my Kroot Hounds are unable to spend 3" of movement to climb up a level of ruins. Nowhere in that rule did it ever say that Beasts - such as Wraiths - can only end their movement on the ground level. A common misunderstanding easily fixed by reading the rule properly.

The way that people talk about Blood Angels you would think that they had Jump Packs baked into the base cost of every single model in their codex and all shooting options had been removed. Neither of those is actually the case and my reading of the codex was that it is a pretty balanced all-round Marine force with a bit of extra oomph in the fight phase and a couple of extra units well placed to take advantage of that. BA will tend to behave more like other marines in general now, that is not super great for BA players because generic marines are not in a super great position in top tournament play but their howls of rage at having their whole codex rendered unplayable just look like the usual over-reaction to change.

I read this as his opponent had units on the bottom floor he didn't want to charge and units on the top floor he DID, which of course you can't do anymore. Can't go over top of the ground floor guys. Under the new FAQ if you have a unit under a unit, the top unit cannot be charged by something that has fly, regardless of them being on different floors. Unless you can somehow find a way to move around or through them that doesn't take you within an inch.

The problem your last paragraph runs into is: BA are actually much, much worse at shooting than generic marines on the simple basis of not having the same buffing characters and army special rules that Ultramarines and to a lesser extent Ravenguard have. When both armies work similarly but the benefits of having access to a moderately superior smash captain(Generic smash captains are no joke either), and slightly above average CQC units(weakened quite a bit by the FAQ changes) doesn't outweigh Guillamen or universal -1 to hit outside of 12", Blood Angels basically become Iron hands or Black Templars or Imperial fists. Not terrible, but why not just take Ultras or RG?