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drbored wrote:
I really don't care about Fulgrim or Doomrider. I would really just be content with plastic Noise Marines.

Well the Death Guard got a box of 7 near-mono-pose Plague Marines for the price of 10 multi-pose minis. Let's see if GW can stretch that to 6 near-mono-pose Noise Marines for the cost of 10!

 buddha wrote:

 Excommunicatus wrote:
I wasn't aware you had been appointed to speak for everyone. Coolbeans, that'll streamline things Nothing emphasizes how little you care about an opinion like taking time out of your day to respond to that opinion, by the way.

I am not arguing that being sick is some sort of failing of Brother Argos, nor do I blame him for prioritizing his own health.

I do blame the BnC for choosing to remain at the whims of a chronically-ill person's health.

Shall we get back on topic now you've had your little tantrum, my love?

You seem like you'd be fun at parties.

To be fair, when one's opening post on the forum contains this beauty..

 Excommunicatus wrote:

I alleged that the mods at the B&C acted like fascists, so to prove me wrong they permabanned me.

Nobody can argue the tone wasn't set from the get go.

I like to imagine that if they did redo the Doomrider, and at some point I think new GW will TBH, that the trailer that precedes him will be the absolute best work by the PR team so far.

It had better be

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

drbored wrote:
I really don't care about Fulgrim or Doomrider. I would really just be content with plastic Noise Marines.

Well the Death Guard got a box of 7 near-mono-pose Plague Marines for the price of 10 multi-pose minis. Let's see if GW can stretch that to 6 near-mono-pose Noise Marines for the cost of 10!

Nah...go full unholy number here: buy one singlepose Noise Marine for the price of 6 multipose ones. :p

 Malika2 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

drbored wrote:
I really don't care about Fulgrim or Doomrider. I would really just be content with plastic Noise Marines.

Well the Death Guard got a box of 7 near-mono-pose Plague Marines for the price of 10 multi-pose minis. Let's see if GW can stretch that to 6 near-mono-pose Noise Marines for the cost of 10!

Nah...go full unholy number here: buy one singlepose Noise Marine for the price of 6 multipose ones. :p

don't you mean buy 6 for the price of 66

Some exec at GW read your recommendations and is quoted as saying "Get out of my head!"

I think GW making Deathguard monopose was a consequence of their stylistic choice. Where cool concept art they tried to adhere to resulted in minis that couldn't be anything but monopose without becoming much more involved.

I think its harder to imagine Noise Marines with the sort of details that would result in the same. I imagine they'll be multi-part kits with limited poseability where significant numbers of parts are paired or intended to only assemble one way.

I hope sonic weapons will have a similar multi-part construction as Lootas or Hellblasters... as I'd like to see more variety of sonic weaponry.

I'd like to believe that, but I'm too much of a cynic.

They only release rules for the exact miniatures they make.
They only draw artwork of their miniatures (even down to the minute details).
They give their new units stupid-yet-easily copywritable names.

You want to call it a limitation based on detail. I call it the post-Chapterhouse world we inherited.

In the future we need to be more careful with what we wish for.

Let's not forget the Primaris Marine models, which are really weirdly put together and mostly monopose for no real reason.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
Let's not forget the Primaris Marine models, which are really weirdly put together and mostly monopose for no real reason.

As far as i remember the only difference from tiny marines is that the legs and torso are stuck together?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Satan from KD just has a penis cloak though.
I'm talking about a big o pile of dicks. A sentient, malevolent dickpile.

You are a true word smith.

 Mymearan wrote:

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
Let's not forget the Primaris Marine models, which are really weirdly put together and mostly monopose for no real reason.

As far as i remember the only difference from tiny marines is that the legs and torso are stuck together?

The Death Guard got a release that was due to the style of the miniatures. Every design starts with a concept drawing and then they work towards the miniature from there. They don't magically design the miniature first. Even the best designers use references.

In the case of the Death Guard release there were a lot of details that they wanted to add to the miniatures that they couldn't with flexible posing. Tentacles coiling around arms, pustules blending from leg to torso seamlessly, things like that.

The Primaris Marines, on the other hand, do have a lot more variation in their posability. They are a bit more limited because the torso is fused to the legs, but because of this we no longer have marines that look like they're constantly trying to pop a squat. You still have all of your choices of arms and weapons, and mixing the Hellblaster and Intercessor kits gives you quite a good range of bodies and poses, all of which look a lot more dynamic.

Now, what can we expect moving forward? Well, I'm not 100% an optimist. I think that the Death Guard are also monopose because GW probably thought they wouldn't sell as well as the Primaris kits. Here we are years later and if they are going to release Emperor's Children, then I'm sure GW expects to sell even less over the long term. Why spend a lot of time and money making a highly detailed multi-pose kit when they can save a buck and create a mono-pose kit? From an engineering standpoint, it's easier and the pieces take up less space on the sprue. THAT would be the reason we get a bunch more mono-pose Chaos kits. It has a lot less to do with Chapterhouse or anything like that.

Coming back on topic, the thing that I really wonder is what we can expect in terms of rules.

We could be getting models without a Codex. They could simply be a release of models (Fiends, Keeper of Secrets) to get rid of finecast/metal and replace with new plastics. If that's the case, I would be a sad panda indeed. On top of that, the current 40k rules for Slaanesh are just abysmal. You can't make a mono-god list with Slaanesh models and expect to win if the enemy has any sort of thing that is higher than toughness 4. They have some speed and they have some slippery shenanigans, but they die to a stiff breeze and their attacks lack any sort of punch. At least Orks have Power Klaws.

In Age of Sigmar they fare much better where armor values aren't as ridiculous and a rend of -1 is actually quite potent. They also survive a lot better since they can get up the field without worrying about being shot off the table for two turns before they can get into combat. The Realm of Chaos... thing, whatever it turns out to be (campaign book?) will likely be focused on Age of Sigmar, Khorne versus Slaanesh, but where will the rules be dropped? Will we get a Hosts of Slaanesh Battletome like Khorne got Blades of Khorne and Nurgle got Maggotkin of Nurgle and Tzeentch got Disciples of Tzeentch? All of those Battletomes came with LOTS of mortal units on top of new daemons, and most of those mortal units don't make the jump to 40k at all.

Worst case scenario we get a Hosts of Slaanesh Battletome with AT LEAST the current models updated to plastic and... that's it. Nothing for 40k since all the rules are already in the current Chaos Daemons Codex.

Best case scenario we get a Hosts of Slaanesh Battletome with new mortals for Age of Sigmar and new daemons for both systems, as well as an Emperor's Children/Slaanesh Daemonkin Codex that brings the Slaanesh Daemons and Noise Marines into one big book that grants them new rules and fills some of the gaps in Slaanesh's repertoire and maybe gives us Fulgrim as well.

I am pretty sure we will get new rules. A new KoS is bound to be much bigger than the current model is. So it will need new rules to represent that properly. (Kairos is a proper monster now, and not some withered old chicken and the GUOs also got rules to represent the huge model.)

Possibilties would be free online rules for the new stuff, or pages in Chapter Approved, or a new/updated Codex.

I would prefer Codex: Chaos Daemons 2.0, as I think they could update the whole army again. I would welcome some rules for playing specific Daemonic Legions, that's something every other book has these days. Also I guess Daemons have the worst and smallest selection of stratagems. And well, like 70% of the units in the book are bad. Given, the last point could be adjusted with points changes in Chapter Approved.

drbored wrote:

 Mymearan wrote:

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
Let's not forget the Primaris Marine models, which are really weirdly put together and mostly monopose for no real reason.

As far as i remember the only difference from tiny marines is that the legs and torso are stuck together?

The Death Guard got a release that was due to the style of the miniatures. Every design starts with a concept drawing and then they work towards the miniature from there. They don't magically design the miniature first. Even the best designers use references.

In the case of the Death Guard release there were a lot of details that they wanted to add to the miniatures that they couldn't with flexible posing. Tentacles coiling around arms, pustules blending from leg to torso seamlessly, things like that.

The Primaris Marines, on the other hand, do have a lot more variation in their posability. They are a bit more limited because the torso is fused to the legs, but because of this we no longer have marines that look like they're constantly trying to pop a squat. You still have all of your choices of arms and weapons, and mixing the Hellblaster and Intercessor kits gives you quite a good range of bodies and poses, all of which look a lot more dynamic.

Now, what can we expect moving forward? Well, I'm not 100% an optimist. I think that the Death Guard are also monopose because GW probably thought they wouldn't sell as well as the Primaris kits. Here we are years later and if they are going to release Emperor's Children, then I'm sure GW expects to sell even less over the long term. Why spend a lot of time and money making a highly detailed multi-pose kit when they can save a buck and create a mono-pose kit? From an engineering standpoint, it's easier and the pieces take up less space on the sprue. THAT would be the reason we get a bunch more mono-pose Chaos kits. It has a lot less to do with Chapterhouse or anything like that.

Coming back on topic, the thing that I really wonder is what we can expect in terms of rules.

We could be getting models without a Codex. They could simply be a release of models (Fiends, Keeper of Secrets) to get rid of finecast/metal and replace with new plastics. If that's the case, I would be a sad panda indeed. On top of that, the current 40k rules for Slaanesh are just abysmal. You can't make a mono-god list with Slaanesh models and expect to win if the enemy has any sort of thing that is higher than toughness 4. They have some speed and they have some slippery shenanigans, but they die to a stiff breeze and their attacks lack any sort of punch. At least Orks have Power Klaws.

In Age of Sigmar they fare much better where armor values aren't as ridiculous and a rend of -1 is actually quite potent. They also survive a lot better since they can get up the field without worrying about being shot off the table for two turns before they can get into combat. The Realm of Chaos... thing, whatever it turns out to be (campaign book?) will likely be focused on Age of Sigmar, Khorne versus Slaanesh, but where will the rules be dropped? Will we get a Hosts of Slaanesh Battletome like Khorne got Blades of Khorne and Nurgle got Maggotkin of Nurgle and Tzeentch got Disciples of Tzeentch? All of those Battletomes came with LOTS of mortal units on top of new daemons, and most of those mortal units don't make the jump to 40k at all.

Worst case scenario we get a Hosts of Slaanesh Battletome with AT LEAST the current models updated to plastic and... that's it. Nothing for 40k since all the rules are already in the current Chaos Daemons Codex.

Best case scenario we get a Hosts of Slaanesh Battletome with new mortals for Age of Sigmar and new daemons for both systems, as well as an Emperor's Children/Slaanesh Daemonkin Codex that brings the Slaanesh Daemons and Noise Marines into one big book that grants them new rules and fills some of the gaps in Slaanesh's repertoire and maybe gives us Fulgrim as well.

In the reports from one of the seminars lately they said that Emperors Children and World Eaters were obvious examples of future codexes. I don’t see them not doing codexes for the other two god specific traitor Legions.

Its important to consider, while it may in some ways be easier to create a 3D design for a miniature than a multi-part design, in manufacturing the more involved shapes and tighter tolerances to make GW's quality of monopose minis work means the process of designing the mold is that much more intensive.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

I think GW making Deathguard monopose was a consequence of their stylistic choice. Where cool concept art they tried to adhere to resulted in minis that couldn't be anything but monopose without becoming much more involved.

I think its harder to imagine Noise Marines with the sort of details that would result in the same. I imagine they'll be multi-part kits with limited poseability where significant numbers of parts are paired or intended to only assemble one way.

I hope sonic weapons will have a similar multi-part construction as Lootas or Hellblasters... as I'd like to see more variety of sonic weaponry.

I'd like to believe that, but I'm too much of a cynic.

They only release rules for the exact miniatures they make.
They only draw artwork of their miniatures (even down to the minute details).
They give their new units stupid-yet-easily copywritable names.

You want to call it a limitation based on detail. I call it the post-Chapterhouse world we inherited.

In the future we need to be more careful with what we wish for.

Since the Chapterhouse thing we've seen both constructions of miniatures designed and released, while we can attribute a number of practices to that event I don't think it rules out what I was talking about.

The published artwork is drawn based on their miniatures, however they still produce concept art for internal use. I think the Deathguard concept art was such they decided a monopose approach was the best approach. While many of us dislike this monopose approach, I think GW sees it as a higher-value premium approach and in their minds they're giving us a "better" product.

When it comes to what I was saying with Noise Marines and sonic weapons, in their present depiction they don't really have the sort of features that demand true monopose like the Deathguard did. I'd speculate noise marines will end up with similar to the limited multi-part assembly that many primaris minis have. If Emperor's Children get a codex, like the other 2 of the big 4, I hope the fact Noise Marines are central to that Legions' identity means they receive some new Sonic Weapons to choose from. If they did the way Lootas' and Hellblasters' weapons are multi-part to allow you to assemble a variety of weapons would be a way to achieve a "complete" kit in a limited number of sprues.

As far as copywrite-able names go the great irony is that the way CHS was legally permitted to use GW's names had little to do with the degree to which they could be copywritten. Even with all the meh-names, CHS would have prevailed to the same extent because a manufacturer is allowed to use a copywritten name belonging to another company to describe product compatibility.

If the new Noise Marines are monopose, I might buy one box for display.

If they're not, I'd easily buy enough boxes to make at least 36 NM, probably 72.