Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
AduroT wrote: As a security guard, I find that entirely believable. She has authority and rank, and while outside her normal area, she was supposedly headed straight to report to the person in charge. Also we’re ten years into an organization where the higher ups have a habit of killing underlings who annoy them.
as a man who has done many a guard shift in a competent military, its completely unbelievable....without that final caveat. I have, as a private, told majors and half-colonels "no, go get clearance, then try again", and if/when they complained to my chain of command, the second word out of my bosses mouth was "off". As others have said, any security system that anyone with rank can bully though is not a security system.
HOWEVER....this is the Empire, and its not a competent military, and it IS run by people with a habit of abusing power and punishing underlings, so i can fully believe that she could get away with breaking the rules because of the implied special relationship she has.
So, what we have here is a shining example of the problems that this sort of toxic leadership can cause, and how is erodes proper discipline and weakens the organisation as a whole.
I completely agree with you. This is an organization in which one officer clearly murdered another one and got away with it with a promotion. The Empire is supposed to be a corrupt, uselessly cruel and rigid organization that makes it both very dangerous to civilians and weaker foreign powers and uniquely vulnerable and weak to sabotage, spy work or insurgencies. That's why they lost afterall.
StraightSilver wrote: Weirdly, and obviously I'm in the minority - this was actually my favourite episode so far.
Same. It has significant problems like the interrogation/torture scene played for laughs and the trench coat escape that was more minions from Despicable Me than Jedi Master from Star Wars. But at least we got to see Ben get it up finally and Leia was played as a likeable 8 year old kid (even with the completely out of left field staring contest quip). I can forgive the rest.
Spoiler:
Are the force sensitives in the basement alive or pickled like Snoke? Did they give any indication? I'm not sure why they'd keep them alive if they rejected the Empire as the inquisitor said. There will always be a fresh supply of force sensitives born every year to replace them so no need to keep them chilled.
I didnt mind the quip, it seems both in character for the kid we've seen, is pointed out as pure false bravado by Reva, and is their mainly to emphasise that leias latent force ability is enough to prevent Reva form just reading her mind like shes did to the fake jedi in ep 2, and thus justify the extended conventional interrogation and thus create the time for obi wan to come. it serves a useful story purpose.
To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.
Coven of XVth 2000pts
The Blades of Ruin 2,000pts Watch Company Rho 1650pts
AduroT wrote: As a security guard, I find that entirely believable. She has authority and rank, and while outside her normal area, she was supposedly headed straight to report to the person in charge. Also we’re ten years into an organization where the higher ups have a habit of killing underlings who annoy them.
as a man who has done many a guard shift in a competent military, its completely unbelievable....without that final caveat. I have, as a private, told majors and half-colonels "no, go get clearance, then try again", and if/when they complained to my chain of command, the second word out of my bosses mouth was "off". As others have said, any security system that anyone with rank can bully though is not a security system.
HOWEVER....this is the Empire, and its not a competent military, and it IS run by people with a habit of abusing power and punishing underlings, so i can fully believe that she could get away with breaking the rules because of the implied special relationship she has.
So, what we have here is a shining example of the problems that this sort of toxic leadership can cause, and how is erodes proper discipline and weakens the organisation as a whole.
I completely agree with you. This is an organization in which one officer clearly murdered another one and got away with it with a promotion. The Empire is supposed to be a corrupt, uselessly cruel and rigid organization that makes it both very dangerous to civilians and weaker foreign powers and uniquely vulnerable and weak to sabotage, spy work or insurgencies. That's why they lost afterall.
Well... Overconfidence of the supreme executive and a galaxy-wide dance party while the mostly intact military was hand-waved out of existence is technically why they lost.
I'm pretty sure the Empire lost because everyone in the Imperial military took the day off and joined the rave of the century. Then they woke up hungover and without an Empire. Oops.
Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone?
Some cool stuff. Some not so cool stuff. Whilst it was great to see T-47’s in action again, there was just something a bit off to me about that scene. I think it was mostly just sort of holding there, and not buffeting or moving.
Others may disagree of course.
Domino window shattering also mildly irked me, as did Instant-Drown Stormtroopers. Book of Boba Fett clearly showed an internal air tank of some kind, so how come they just drowned in the blink of an eye? Though given water and depth I suppose it could be more they were squished by pressure?
Other than that pretty enjoyable. Kenobi is definitely getting his Ming back on.
first of all we have no idea how far down that thing was, the water PRESSURE may have been sufficant to stop them. in fact given that a single crack was eneugh to have the window begin to shatter and the water rush in like that, it's a safe bet the water pressure was pretty high.
Secondly. the stormtroopers didn't NEED to be killed. they simply needed to be slowed down and STOPPED.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
AduroT wrote: As a security guard, I find that entirely believable. She has authority and rank, and while outside her normal area, she was supposedly headed straight to report to the person in charge. Also we’re ten years into an organization where the higher ups have a habit of killing underlings who annoy them.
as a man who has done many a guard shift in a competent military, its completely unbelievable....without that final caveat. I have, as a private, told majors and half-colonels "no, go get clearance, then try again", and if/when they complained to my chain of command, the second word out of my bosses mouth was "off". As others have said, any security system that anyone with rank can bully though is not a security system.
HOWEVER....this is the Empire, and its not a competent military, and it IS run by people with a habit of abusing power and punishing underlings, so i can fully believe that she could get away with breaking the rules because of the implied special relationship she has.
So, what we have here is a shining example of the problems that this sort of toxic leadership can cause, and how is erodes proper discipline and weakens the organisation as a whole.
I completely agree with you. This is an organization in which one officer clearly murdered another one and got away with it with a promotion. The Empire is supposed to be a corrupt, uselessly cruel and rigid organization that makes it both very dangerous to civilians and weaker foreign powers and uniquely vulnerable and weak to sabotage, spy work or insurgencies. That's why they lost afterall.
Well... Overconfidence of the supreme executive and a galaxy-wide dance party while the mostly intact military was hand-waved out of existence is technically why they lost.
What you said always makes me think of this Robot Chicken clip:
I enjoyed that episode. Ben got his mojo back, Leia holds her own against an Inquisitor.
The buts... Is this where Vader learns the 'put a tracker on the ship trick' (and Leia learns to look out for it); Reva's standing in her chosen profession must be at all all time low (she can't even read the mind of a 10 year old), and I also agree there seemed something off about the vehicle effects (the shuttle landing at the Inquisitor base didn't seem 'placed' and the shot from behind the T-47s as they went deep into the base seemed odd).
Still, generally very positive and looking forward to next week.
To be fair, I would think that would be much more difficult than an adult. An adult has likely developed patterns and (hopefully) some discipline. Their thoughts are going to settle into 'tracks' and predictable routines as they go through their life.
A 10 year old's thoughts are likely everywhere, still trying to figure out what things are and why things happen. Add in a stressful situation and I'd imagine their thoughts scatter like butterflies.
To be fair, I would think that would be much more difficult than an adult. An adult has likely developed patterns and (hopefully) some discipline. Their thoughts are going to settle into 'tracks' and predictable routines as they go through their life.
A 10 year old's thoughts are likely everywhere, still trying to figure out what things are and why things happen. Add in a stressful situation and I'd imagine their thoughts scatter like butterflies.
Thats just justifying characters gaining and forgetting skills and abilities to suit the plot.
Lets remember that obiwan was capable of running at superhuman speeds in episode 1 and then forgot how to do it when he needed to be locked behind an energy door at the end of the movie.
This suddenly not being able to do the thing we just watched you do is par for the course bad starwars writing and there is no in universe explanation for it.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
a strongly force sensitive 10 year old, mind. its already in film canon that force sensitives are harder to read, even without much or any training (rey in the force awakens), so its no suprise she couldnt just mind-screw the infomation out of leia.
plus, the inquisitors were, in several sources, noted to be mediocre force users as best, partly becuase thats all they could find to work with after the Purge, and partly as a precaution against them trying Sith promotions against Vader or the Emperor.
To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.
Coven of XVth 2000pts
The Blades of Ruin 2,000pts Watch Company Rho 1650pts
a strongly force sensitive 10 year old, mind. its already in film canon that force sensitives are harder to read, even without much or any training (rey in the force awakens), so its no suprise she couldnt just mind-screw the infomation out of leia.
plus, the inquisitors were, in several sources, noted to be mediocre force users as best, partly becuase thats all they could find to work with after the Purge, and partly as a precaution against them trying Sith promotions against Vader or the Emperor.
She's also just a 10 year old kid. I get that they're never going to show actual torture on screen (much less that of a child), but if you know anything about kids, no matter how precocious they are, it's not hard to make them say or tell you what you want. They're not trained for interrogation and kids don't deal well with extended amounts of targeted pain. They have mind probe tech, just use that if somehow Reva is that weak to even pull it out of an untrained child.
She also has zero training but Rey pretty much made that previously valid reason moot in canon. I'd have been ok if she was resistant AFTER the interrogation maybe in a later scene/episode during a second attempt by one of the inquisitors as a result of regretting revealing something important that had devastating consequences but that would be character development and Disney/Lucasfilm seem adverse to that depending on the character.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/10 14:29:27
Thats just justifying characters gaining and forgetting skills and abilities to suit the plot.
Lets remember that obiwan was capable of running at superhuman speeds in episode 1 and then forgot how to do it when he needed to be locked behind an energy door at the end of the movie.
This suddenly not being able to do the thing we just watched you do is par for the course bad starwars writing and there is no in universe explanation for it.
I would exalt this post a thousand times if it were possible. This right here is why I have such a hard time getting into anything Disney Wars. That kind of atrociously lazy writing has plagued all of their movies and shows. Lord help you if you actually point it out too, cause then the fandom just immediately decides you're a racist/sexist/closet Nazi.
a strongly force sensitive 10 year old, mind. its already in film canon that force sensitives are harder to read, even without much or any training (rey in the force awakens), so its no suprise she couldnt just mind-screw the infomation out of leia.
plus, the inquisitors were, in several sources, noted to be mediocre force users as best, partly becuase thats all they could find to work with after the Purge, and partly as a precaution against them trying Sith promotions against Vader or the Emperor.
Plus, of course, Vader himself couldn't pull the location of the Rebel base out of the mind of a drugged, tortured (and still untrained) Leia ~8-10 years later, so this is all completely unprecedented.
They're right, we should all definitely be aghast at the lazy writing and people forgetting skills.
Maybe the writers aren't the ones forgetting...
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2022/06/10 17:23:22
still baffled as to why Vader didn't just create an interesting ceiling based cleaning job out of Third Sisters skull this week, given last week he was happily murdering civvies for no reason, that's the second time she's left Obi escape and with Leia this time which can be spun into negative PR for the Empire, she's lucky theres two episodes to go
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/10 17:24:18
"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED."
MarkNorfolk wrote: I was referring to her standing with the other Inquisitors. It is baffling how Third Sister is still alive.
It is a tad surprising they haven't had the bad guy think of arranging a work place accident for her, hunting Jedi is kind of dangerous, who knows what the odd force push or pull could do in the heat of a saber battle
"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED."
Thats just justifying characters gaining and forgetting skills and abilities to suit the plot.
Lets remember that obiwan was capable of running at superhuman speeds in episode 1 and then forgot how to do it when he needed to be locked behind an energy door at the end of the movie.
This suddenly not being able to do the thing we just watched you do is par for the course bad starwars writing and there is no in universe explanation for it.
I would exalt this post a thousand times if it were possible. This right here is why I have such a hard time getting into anything Disney Wars. That kind of atrociously lazy writing has plagued all of their movies and shows. Lord help you if you actually point it out too, cause then the fandom just immediately decides you're a racist/sexist/closet Nazi.
This doesn't plague Disney Wars. This plagues starwars. Period. Episode 4 sees a guy get his arm chopped off wih a light sabre and there is blood, never to happen again. Luke learns powers without training just as fast as Rey (nobody taught him to force pull his light sabre to himself and he had never seen anyone do it but he still manages to do it at the beginning of Empire).
Starwars has had this kind of crap writing since the very beginning. Fans just like to forget it. Don't blame Disney. Blame Lucasfilm/Lucas Arts etc etc... They have been doing this since the 70s. Disney just acquired their bull gak.
a strongly force sensitive 10 year old, mind. its already in film canon that force sensitives are harder to read, even without much or any training (rey in the force awakens), so its no suprise she couldnt just mind-screw the infomation out of leia.
plus, the inquisitors were, in several sources, noted to be mediocre force users as best, partly becuase thats all they could find to work with after the Purge, and partly as a precaution against them trying Sith promotions against Vader or the Emperor.
Plus, of course, Vader himself couldn't pull the location of the Rebel base out of the mind of a drugged, tortured (and still untrained) Leia ~8-10 years later, so this is all completely unprecedented.
They're right, we should all definitely be aghast at the lazy writing and people forgetting skills. Maybe the writers aren't the ones forgetting...
We have never once seen Vader use the power to pull information from peoples minds before. That trick isn't in his bag.
We have seen The Emperor do it (at the very least through Snoke), Kylo Ren, and now 3rd Sister. But not Anakin. So yeah, right now you are assuming Vader is capable of a force power we have never seen him use, that I agree he SHOULD be able to use, but he never COULD use because the plot required him to not be able to.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/06/10 18:13:46
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
MarkNorfolk wrote: I was referring to her standing with the other Inquisitors. It is baffling how Third Sister is still alive.
as far as i can tell, shes hanging on by a thread of still being slightly more competent than the other two (who have been demoted to "costumed extra with a few lines"), and her continuing ability to create JUST enough favour with Vader to make him think keeping her alive is useful.
the only reason vader didnt insta-kill her that i can think of (in character, i mean, rather than the out of universe answer of "shes a primary antagonist, she wont die until the end") is that hes trying to use her demise as a way to put the fear of sith into the other two, to motivate them, so he needs her to suffer and beg before shes killed.
We have never once seen Vader use the power to pull information from peoples minds before. That trick isn't in his bag.
on the contrary, we have, at least to some degree, when he pulls infomation about Leia form Lukes mind in ROTJ ("So, you have a sister...your feelings have now betray her too!").
granted, this does advance the idea that its not impossible, but still, vader is shown to be able to read thoughts like that.
Also, that scene reinforces the fact that vader, at least, did not know about Leias true identity as his daughter ("obi-wan was wise to hide her form me"), so that means he wont find this out during this series, even if someone else does (presumably, they dont live long enough to tell him).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/10 18:24:22
To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.
Coven of XVth 2000pts
The Blades of Ruin 2,000pts Watch Company Rho 1650pts
It could simply be that unlike other Cred A Bajillion Imperial Officers, Inquisitors are granted slightly more leeway by Vader - potentially on the orders of Palpatine.
After all, Force Users aren’t especially common. Those strong enough in the Force to be worth actually training are rarer still.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
We have never once seen Vader use the power to pull information from peoples minds before. That trick isn't in his bag.
on the contrary, we have, at least to some degree, when he pulls infomation about Leia form Lukes mind in ROTJ ("So, you have a sister...your feelings have now betray her too!").
granted, this does advance the idea that its not impossible, but still, vader is shown to be able to read thoughts like that.
Also, that scene reinforces the fact that vader, at least, did not know about Leias true identity as his daughter ("obi-wan was wise to hide her form me"), so that means he wont find this out during this series, even if someone else does (presumably, they dont live long enough to tell him).
That bit was always more... feelings then direct information. Which fits with the rest of what we got in the orig trig. He says some antagonizing gak, it drums up feelings of sibling affection and Vader works it out. Thats not the same thing we see the others do. The others pull actual factual information out of peoples heads without prompting them. They just hold their hand out, the victim makes some agonizing faces, and then they know street addresses and gak.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: On “sister, so you have a sister”? Vader never learns who Luke’s sister is.
indeed, which of course requires disney to not let the fact that Leia is vaders daughter get out....
To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.
Coven of XVth 2000pts
The Blades of Ruin 2,000pts Watch Company Rho 1650pts
Anakin was a poster boy for weird unorthodox plans that tend to work out in the end. Oh, so you planned ahead and stuck a tracking beacon on the girl so if/when they rescued her they’d lead us back to their whole network? Bold strategy. I’ll allow it.
Oh they just took her directly back to Aldarran, and the cute robot is there and we have no clue where Kenobi is now, good job plot stupid will demand otherwise
"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED."
LunarSol wrote: This discussion would all be hilarious if it wasn't exactly why I can't enjoy Star Wars anymore.
Because... other people talk about it?
I'm super unclear what the 'exactly' here would be.
Because every conversation is about precise minutia of every line of dialog ever spoken and cross checking that every action taken lines up precisely with the iron clad rules that were generally retconned into the series a decade or so after they were kind of thrown together in the first place. It's never fun, just exhausting.
Coven of XVth 2000pts
The Blades of Ruin 2,000pts 
Watch Company Rho 1650pts
