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Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






This is just decisively meh...
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





So I find myself liking the story even if its kind of badly told. This episode had some decent payoff on things people took issue with before but I'm not sure any of them quite make the initial setup intriguing.

Action overall remains quite compelling and the big scene here also did a solid job paying off a prior disappointment. I absolutely adore the focus on disarms throughout that absolutely satisfies a craving for classic Jedi depictions in a way prior attempts really haven't.

My one big nitpick on the fight:

Spoiler:
There is ZERO way you could block a wookie swing with a backhand grip like that.
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






I assume Not-Bacca was resisting the control to some degree?

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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





They didn't show it that way if so. I was kind assuming and looking for the same thing but he really doesn't ever show internal resistance. Might be a limit of the suit though.
   
Made in de
Huge Bone Giant






I don't know what to think. I'm either too tipsy or not tipsy enough to appreciate episode seven. But the balance is definitely off.

Spoiler:
Say what you will about Anakin, but if he had been mind controlled like that, he'd have come back to murder every last one of the fethers who made him look bad before he goes all emo on us. Torbin skipped the cool step between whiny bitching and whiny breakdown. Boring!

I do share the sentiment that in spite of it being entirely foreseeable that this would be a flashback episode, and we are of course owed answers not given in the first flashback, after two episodes that gave us some cool Qimir action, this is an unfortunate slowdown.

Alright, turns out Mae isn't the evil twin any more than Osha is the good twin. Great. Good to know. But it feels like the show has two main threads, and the twins' backstory is decidedly the weaker one. I certainly feel the concern that with only one episode left, the good thread won't get the attention it deserves.

The Jedi don't come away too badly. A little breaking and entering. A little lying. A little drawing lightsabers without provocation when Qimir isn't looking*. Mostly they're doing the right thing. Some of it even with high council backing. In a competent story this could present a nice conflict as it's fertile ground for enemy propaganda but kind of preposterous in an objective way. You could do something with that. The Acolyte unfortunately fixates on the Jedi guilt tripping themselves over trifles and being a tiny bit naughty to cover up their own failings. It feels a bit overdone for the half of them we've seen explored in enough detail beating themselves up for the next sixteen years. Especially for weird cultists who should have embraced the emotional detachment their cult teaches.

The power of many sucks. I get a cult talking up its beliefs, but a dozen or two witches dropping dead because a single Jedi breaks their mind control is all kinds of weak. If the cult sucks so bad, you have to wonder why they feel the need to hide. Or why anyone would persecute them.



* It's actually kind of a cute thought that Qimir was minding his own business all along and when he took Mae on, it was her who inspired him to go with the whole murder a Jedi barehanded thing.

Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone? 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

 nels1031 wrote:
A Wookie with clothes is weird.

For what it's worth, that's not a design choice from this show specifically... Wookie jedi have been depicted in robes of some sort in various media for at least 20 years now.

 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 Geifer wrote:
I don't know what to think. I'm either too tipsy or not tipsy enough to appreciate episode seven. But the balance is definitely off.


I'm 90% sure the entire issue with the show is that it wasn't scripted as a mystery but someone decided to try and make it one in editing.
   
Made in de
Huge Bone Giant






Sounds plausible enough.

I'd just like to know what I'm even watching. One episode away from the end of the season, it doesn't feel like I have an idea where the show is going. It's kind of hard to describe, but it doesn't feel like the show set up enough of a story that is in need of resolution. Stuff just happens, is randomly resolved or not, then the next thing comes along, and so on. I don't know. I don't think I've watched a show before where I consistently didn't have anything to look forward to in the next episode. Weird stuff.

Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone? 
   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

 LunarSol wrote:
 Geifer wrote:
I don't know what to think. I'm either too tipsy or not tipsy enough to appreciate episode seven. But the balance is definitely off.


I'm 90% sure the entire issue with the show is that it wasn't scripted as a mystery but someone decided to try and make it one in editing.


I'm pretty convinced the show is actually 2 scripts that were jammed into 1.

You can almost see the lines now, where the Sith-maybe-guy plot was one thing, and the twins murder cult mystery plot was another thing, and at some point these two scripts were stapled together because someone decided they were similar enough but the stapling is very sloppy.

My hypothesis.

If there is one thing the series has done well, it's build a sense of mystery though. Like, all my complaints aside, I've never lost interest in wanting to know what the feth is going on. They tease the mystery well. It's the other parts of the mystery plot that don't quite come together.

   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






That was quite the finale!

Spoiler:
a pretty decent sub-light starship chase. An unsurprising revelation. Who is that mysterious manky old git hiding in the cave? Rampant Jedi corruption! Sweet cameo!


More please!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/07/17 02:25:59


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Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

Yup, that was a satisfying conclusion.

Spoiler:
As seemed likely from the start, all of the Jedi exploration team are now dead, and there's no official confirmation that any Sith were involved, so all the wailing and gnashing of teeth over continuity breaking from the 'fanbase' was pointless.


Lurkyman is a bit of a mystery... Folk over on Twitter seem convinced it's Plagueis, but he looks more like a pale Duros than a Muun, so Plagueis only fits if they're going with a different species to the Legends version. This would also place Plagueis in the timeline too early compared to the original version.

None of which is a deal breaker given the new continuity, but I suspect it's going to turn out to be a new Sith Lord entirely, if we do get a second season.

Edit - actually, after looking at a few more pics of Plagueis, I'm leaning more towards this being him after all... He has considerably less nose than the normal Muun...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/07/17 03:24:51


 
   
Made in us
Savage Minotaur




Baltimore, Maryland

Could’ve been something good here, as its a compelling enough story in principle, but its so badly paced, performances so stilted and writing so amateurish that it might beat out Book of Boba Fett as the worst Star Wars show. At least that show was consistent when they disappointingly made Boba a somewhat pacifist crimelord.

Impressive how this show cost more($180million) than BoBF($105million) as well, and didn’t look nearly as good at any point, nor have nearly as much CGI.

Andor is getting a second season despite low viewership because it got near universal praise and good word of mouth after the fact. I don’t think this show will get that kind of goodwill, as the praise isn’t universally good, nor is word of mouth positive.

I do know that youtube doomwatchers would absolutely love a season 2 of this.






"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
 
   
Made in in
[MOD]
Otiose in a Niche






Hyderabad, India

I thought this came out on Wednesday? Ah well thanks for using spoiler tags guys!

 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

It is Wednesday!

 
   
Made in in
[MOD]
Otiose in a Niche






Hyderabad, India

 insaniak wrote:
It is Wednesday!


Ack time zones my old nemesis!

(Currently in the US, living in the past when I'm used to living in the future)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/07/17 04:30:06


 
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






 nels1031 wrote:
Could’ve been something good here, as its a compelling enough story in principle, but its so badly paced, performances so stilted and writing so amateurish that it might beat out Book of Boba Fett as the worst Star Wars show. At least that show was consistent when they disappointingly made Boba a somewhat pacifist crimelord.

Impressive how this show cost more($180million) than BoBF($105million) as well, and didn’t look nearly as good at any point, nor have nearly as much CGI.

Andor is getting a second season despite low viewership because it got near universal praise and good word of mouth after the fact. I don’t think this show will get that kind of goodwill, as the praise isn’t universally good, nor is word of mouth positive.

I do know that youtube doomwatchers would absolutely love a season 2 of this.


Did….did we watch the same show?

As for YouTube doom watchers, when you’ve made moaning not just your entire personality, but a career (or are at least trying to), I’d have to question the veracity of their indignance. I mean, people are of course going to like, meh, love and hate different things. But when your shtick is “I’m trying it mane money by slagging something off”, there’s a really big incentive there to just…..slag things off.

I greatly enjoyed this show. Was it perfect? No, absolutely not. But it tells a coherent and interesting mystery tale. It delves into a world of self justified morals and arrogance. It starts to make good/bad of Light and Dark side users more blurred. Not exactly nuanced, no. But it is a study in self righteousness gon ]e awry.

Spoiler:
I really liked the final scenes, where Master Baldyslapheid reveals she knew all along about what happened, covered it up then, and continues to cover it up now, just straight up telling massive Porky Pies to the Senate.

Where do I think it could’ve been tighter? The Senator. I’ll need to binge watch, but I don’t recall him being in it much, possibly at all, in most of the episodes. But he provides some motivation for the Jedi behaviour, specifically external checks and balances on their power and independence. Not from an evil Sith cackle cackle, I’m gonna make everyone think you’re Richard’s approach. But a seemingly genuine “surely there must be some enforced limit to your shenanigans” concern.

I really enjoyed a lot of the Jedi being portrayed as a bit sloppy and indolent. I take that to be the result of decades, centuries possibly millennia of peace. From Master Baldyslapeheid’s pet Weasel, to Hotpie in the first episode. I know it’s not the done thing to poke fun at someone’s weight. But….I don’t think we’ve seen an overweight Jedi before? It all points to an Order too comfortable in its position, having seemingly gone largely unchallenged for a long time.

Finally? I absolutely loved not knowing what the end game might be. There was of course a time I didn’t know A New Hope had sequels. I specifically remember how I found out - but it’s such a long time ago, I can’t remember not knowing the events of those films. Prequels, Clone Wars, Rebels, Resistance, everything else? We kinda know Good Guys Win, and who absolutely wasn’t snuffing it in those films.

Here, sure we know the Jedi Order goes on for at least another hundred or so years. But only one character, via the magic of rear view cameo, do we know the ultimate fate of. Mae, Qimir, Osha, Manky Old Cave Git? Who knows. Do any of them tie into Palpatine’s rise? Or are they just another Master/Apprentice out fiddling with things and of no particularly grand accomplishment once they’re bumped off/redeemed?

Like Andor, this is a pretty different lens to see the galaxy through. And I’m loving it.

As for audience reviews? Jump on Rotten Tomatoes and play “Spot The Bot”. They’re the one line, fraction of a star spam reviews.

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Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






That was fine, nothing spectacular. It's something to watch which is par for the course with things these days.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




That was definitely a show that happened. Overall it was a pretty middling affair. Was just about good enough to entice me back each week, but not nearly good enough for me to particularly enthused about it. It's not exactly BoBF but it's a long way short of the better SW streaming shows.

Spoiler:

My biggest problem remains the fact this feels like 2 different shows stitched together, as someone else mentioned ITT. You've got the "mystery" of the twins and you've got the Sith dude and they seem fairly disconnected despite attempts to link the two storylines. Annoyingly, the Sith dude is by far the most engaging part of the show to me, yet they tried to make it all about the mystery of the twins.

The mystery on Brendok was not really much of a mystery and the handling of it still feels really off to me. There's no nuance to any of it, which makes the attempt to present it from different viewpoints for different characters feel unearned. The coven are just kind of flat-out evil, despite some desultory attempts at blurring those lines. The actions of the Jedi during the incident don't seem extreme enough to lead to the various things that result. Maybe it's the pacing, with flashbacks breaking things up too much, but I fundamentally didn't feel particularly bothered about the twins at any point either. They don't really get enough character development and are a bit too 2-dimensional, so the reconciliation at the end fell quite flat for me. It is at least somewhat interesting that they had Osha fall at the end, which shows some promise for a second season, provided they stay away from the way-overdone "conflicted darksider" approach.

I'm fairly sure the shadowy figure was Plagueis, but that felt like it was put there purely as a cheap trick to generate speculation.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Definitely a mixed bag. The wuxia fight is absolutely up there and despite it being a little clunky:

Spoiler:

This might be the best live action dark side turn we've seen complete with Kyber bleed!

Granted, it doesn't have any real competition, but... progress?


I thought they might land it but then we get into all wrap up which is very messy at best. Cover up is solid enough and but then:

Spoiler:

The mind wipe is complete nonsense and doesn't make any sense. This comes out of nowhere and just eats every sin of the show. Mae admits to starting the fire that's the whole reason her mom went smoke monster which caused Sol to panic and kill her which is why Osha goes evil. Leaving her behind is just a trail for no reason but season 2 and doesn't have any need to actually happen. Even if you believe strongly in the rule of 2 the whole point of the show apparently is they count as 1 so.... like.... don't be such a stickler for the rules Sith?


Ultimately this is some of my favorite Star Wars content and in particular some of my favorite Force ideas I've seen in years, but the show itself is very messy and constantly fumbles things. I love the vibes here but I'd love to see a better show set in this era.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/07/17 13:21:14


 
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






On your second point?

Spoiler:
I figured it was a KOTOR type thing, doing a Revan?


Not necessarily terribly successful, but I think that’s what they were going for. Plus

Spoiler:
Its another chance for Jedi to be awful by manipulating an amnesiac Mae

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Fixture of Dakka





I made the same connections, but there's no reason for the characters involved to do the things they did. It's a really bizarre, unmotivated way to wrap things up.
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






We are now left with a deeper mystery.

Spoiler:
Manky Old Cave Git. Who am, and what do? Is are even a Sith?

Qimir - believed dead by Master Baldyslapheid. But…who actually is he? Is it someone she believes she killed? A former Padawan, or has he always been Sith?

I quite like the feeling that the relatively small scale of events here, nothing galaxy shaking, that Mae and OSHA’s experiences are the first canker to appear of an underlying sickness, one at least Master Baldyslapheid, for reasons yet to be explained, is determined to cover up.

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Fixture of Dakka





 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
We are now left with a deeper mystery.

Spoiler:
Manky Old Cave Git. Who am, and what do? Is are even a Sith?

Qimir - believed dead by Master Baldyslapheid. But…who actually is he? Is it someone she believes she killed? A former Padawan, or has he always been Sith?

I quite like the feeling that the relatively small scale of events here, nothing galaxy shaking, that Mae and OSHA’s experiences are the first canker to appear of an underlying sickness, one at least Master Baldyslapheid, for reasons yet to be explained, is determined to cover up.


Spoiler:

100% Plagueis. I don't think its even a question. This is how he learns to create life with the Force, teaches Palpatine and creates Anakin. Actually disappointed now that we didn't get this as the Rey answer (though I don't think we needed a Rey answer....)

Green Jedi lady tells Mae she needs help finding a former pupil who turned to evil. Absolutely a former padawan. What happened is certainly a question. He's got lashes across his back and she wields a lightwhip. Connection there seems obvious.

I assume she's determined to cover it up because she's aware how dangerous a Jedi who loses control can be.
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






Yet she’s a proven liar already, so anything she says must be taken with a pinch of salt.

Not even “certain point of view”. Just outright porky pies.

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Fixture of Dakka





I don't think any of that is a lie though. I'm guessing she's at fault for what happened with Qimir, but I don't think she's fabricating a history with him. Most of what she says seems to confirm what we could already infer.
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






It’s
Spoiler:
what she told the Senate Committee. And she clearly held Sol cover up the preceding events.

That’s a conscious decision, and we can only guess at why - but it seems likely she’s done at least as bad, if not outright worse. Or knows this is surprisingly rife within the Jedi Order.


For me, I think they pulled off wrapping up this season’s tale, whilst leaving just enough dangling threads of interest to weave into hopefully subsequent season or seasons.

Importantly, whilst I’ve enjoyed this more than others, I don’t think it’s been anywhere enough of a bum note to endanger future tales. Where it’s lacking can be tightened up with just a bit of spit and polish.

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Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






Disney will make more shows regardless. It's Star Wars, it's literally too big to fail.
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






I’m absolutely tickled that after all the faux outrage about “woke”?

The only thing even approaching “woke” was the suggestion of two women possibly being in a romantic relationship.

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Hangin' with Gork & Mork






 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I’m absolutely tickled that after all the faux outrage about “woke”?

The only thing even approaching “woke” was the suggestion of two women possibly being in a romantic relationship.


The majority of the criticism I have seen regarding the series had nothing to do with "woke". I have no doubt that some have done it but it also feels a bit like when some people treated any criticism of Ghostbusters (2016) or ST: Discovery as misogynistic or bigoted when both had legitimate narrative and character issues.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/07/17 16:08:26


Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
 
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






MDG is referring to what was said about the show long before it came out.

A cast of mostly non-white actors with a lot of female leads was announced just after the nonsense with the sequel trilogy caused the outrage brigade to poop their collective pants.
   
 
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