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Saw the Pitch Meeting... so now I don't have to watch the show.

Flashbacks are necessary though, as this is a mystery show.

In the first episode we learn they’re twins. Then something of Mae’s motivations. From there we get the “certain point of view” background, big fight, “and here’s what really happened” then resolution.

Could the flashbacks have been done better? Possibly? Probably? I enjoyed what’s there already so struggling to be subjective on that count. But some level of flashback was necessary for the tone and aim of the show.

The flashback scenes are absolutely necessary but they're not implemented well. Especially true of the second one whose framing device is entirely in the prior episode. I've said before that I kind of feel like the mystery aspect was added in the editing room and.... maybe...

Ultimately I feel like the crux of the problem is trying to make a story where the Jedi don't come across as the villains but we still end up empathizing with Osha. Our perspective makes it very hard to side with anyone and in trying to create a tragic misunderstanding we kind of ended up with a ton of contrived scenarios that can't quite sell us on anyone's motives.

 Gert wrote:
Flashbacks are fine if it isn't half the run time and then like a whole other episode. It's the one part of Andor that I didn't like, the flashbacks to his Lord of the Flies childhood that I'm still not sure explains anything apart from "Cassian is from here and got picked up by scavengers".

The flashback is to show that the Republic was already stepping into fascism. When Andor's adoptive parents take him because they say he'll be shot on sight, it isn't storm troopers of the Empire they're talking about, it is soldiers of the Republic. The events that happened on that planet were not the Empire, they were the Republic. It is to show that the rot that allowed fascism to grow was already long established before it bloomed.

That was a great Pitch Meeting.

When it comes to flashbacks (or equivalents), I'm getting the impression that the full episode format doesn't work for a lot of people. It feels similar to how there is plenty of criticism of Phantom Menace just because it deprived the prequel trilogy of a third of the time it could have spent on Anakin and Obi-Wan adventures, as in things the audience actually cared about. That used to get brought up frequently. I'm getting much the same impression from The Acolyte.

The way back when stuff is important to the story, but the different angles to make it a mystery or whatever basically doubles the time we spend seeing the same events. Shorter narrative episodes sprinkled in when a character explains their point of view would probably serve the story better than two full episodes somewhat randomly shoved into the series.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Gert wrote:
Flashbacks are fine if it isn't half the run time and then like a whole other episode. It's the one part of Andor that I didn't like, the flashbacks to his Lord of the Flies childhood that I'm still not sure explains anything apart from "Cassian is from here and got picked up by scavengers".

The flashback is to show that the Republic was already stepping into fascism. When Andor's adoptive parents take him because they say he'll be shot on sight, it isn't storm troopers of the Empire they're talking about, it is soldiers of the Republic. The events that happened on that planet were not the Empire, they were the Republic. It is to show that the rot that allowed fascism to grow was already long established before it bloomed.

It also reinforces that for likely a fair chunk of the wider Rebellion? Those fighting The Empire were doing so with the end scenario of their planet Being Left The Heck Alone.

This leads up to the post-Endor/Jakku decision to make the New Republic an option. And so, in a sense? The separatists absolutely won the Clone Wars eventually.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Flashbacks are necessary though, as this is a mystery show.

They're necessary for this mystery show, yes. That said, the problem isn't really with the fact they have flashbacks, it's that they take up 25% of the total runtime of the show. Even worse, the flashbacks are both full episodes, which leads to the big problems I have with the show's pacing. The second flashback episode was better, IMO, but was marred by the fact it was retreading a lot of the first flashback episode.

Then you have the way things just isn't explained in the second flashback, revealing that the first flashback was just badly written. There's no explanation of why the fire spread so quickly, so that just seems dumb. Qimir is not explained at all, despite various ominous portents (tm) about who he is. As the Pitch Meeting points out, the revelations about what happened between the mother and Sol are purely down to not actually communicating, but in a way that feels contrived to allow the plot to happen rather than for any logical reason.

I'm more arguing that Acolyte would have been better if it started with Osha's POV of the events in the flashback and then had the other POVs added later on.

It would have introduced everyone and got rid of the pointless "oooh maybe this one's the baddie" which IMO was just a waste of time.
Just because the audience knows it isn't here, doesn't mean the characters have to and honestly it would have been better to show the lie that had been spun to the order play out when we know its a lie.

See I liked the ambiguity. As with the overall mystery that’s not to say it was perfectly done. But, as someone in an odd dichotomy where I remember not knowing Star Wars had sequels, but also not recalling clearly a time when I really didn’t know what those films portrayed?

The Acolyte remains a breath, perhaps a gasp, of fresh air. None of our players are remembered into the prequel era. And so whilst of course being a story someone was gonna get Plot Armour, episode to episode there was no way to tell who the beneficiary was.

It could’ve been done better. But let’s be equally honest and admit at worst, this was just sort of middling. Because of this is something you genuinely consider to be garbage TV? Boy, do I have a couple of universes worth of utter, abject, god awful, kitten wee weak of TV to show you.

I never called it garbage, I just think there was a much better way to run this.

The fact that Osha wasn't the assassin was obvious from the first episode. Actually wasn't it like explicitly shown in the first episode?
Maybe I'm misremembering but it was a weak attempt to drive a mystery when "How did the twin survive?" and "Whos the mysterious baddy?" are enough.
The fact that one dude offed himself and it took until like the semi-final episode to resolve that was worse.
It was like the writers went "how many useless side mysteries can we randomly throw in just for fun?" and nobody told them to cut it out.

 Gert wrote:
I'm more arguing that Acolyte would have been better if it started with Osha's POV of the events in the flashback and then had the other POVs added later on.

It would have introduced everyone and got rid of the pointless "oooh maybe this one's the baddie" which IMO was just a waste of time.
Just because the audience knows it isn't here, doesn't mean the characters have to and honestly it would have been better to show the lie that had been spun to the order play out when we know its a lie.

There's a lot of general perspective problems. The show kind of wants to split between Mae and Osha's perspectives, but also Sol. Not impossible, but you have to write the puzzle in a way that requires all 3. I think you're probably right that if they had focused on the twins as the dual perspectives it would have worked better.

 Gert wrote:
I never called it garbage, I just think there was a much better way to run this.

Apologies, wasn’t intended as a personal comment/response, more a general one.

Finally got some pics from Skellington Crew.

https://people.com/jude-law-teases-star-wars-easter-eggs-in-new-skeleton-crew-series-exclusive-8686428

That last pic gives me Spy Kid vibes, which isn't exactly a great thing.

I’ll give it a fair shake, but I’m suspecting I’m not the target audience.

I'd somehow managed to avoid knowing anything at all about this other than that Jude Law was in it. It looks like a Star Wars take on The Goonies, ET or Stranger Things, right down to the kids with bikes and walkie-talkies.

 Grimskul wrote:
That last pic gives me Spy Kid vibes, which isn't exactly a great thing.

How about An Ewok Adventure than?

 Ahtman wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:
That last pic gives me Spy Kid vibes, which isn't exactly a great thing.

How about An Ewok Adventure than?

Hmmmmm, only the kids make the mistake of feeding an Ewok past midnight and it starts eating them one by one.

Are those Geordi glasses XD

Mini Rebo is the best thing since Baby Yoda, and those speederbikes are brilliant.

I expect my daughters will love this one.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 LordofHats wrote:
Are those Geordi glasses XD

Probably, although they look like they have at least been designed so that the actress can still see through them.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I’ll give it a fair shake, but I’m suspecting I’m not the target audience.

I guess it depends if it's a full blown kids' show or if they integrate stuff that's interesting to adult Star Wars fans alongside stuff for younger audiences.

Looks like the first official trailer is out for Skeleton Crew:




I think some of the comments summed it up well as it coming off like Goonies in space, which as a premise isn't terrible by itself but I don't trust Disney with the execution given how they handled Kenobi, Ahsoka, and more recently The Acolyte.

I expected to not be interested, but the trailer has me curious. The glimpse of a normal life for a core or inner rim world was something I don't recall seeing much of before. So, this might be something I actually try to watch.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimskul wrote:
I think some of the comments summed it up well as it coming off like Goonies in space, which as a premise isn't terrible by itself but I don't trust Disney with the execution given how they handled Kenobi, Ahsoka, and more recently The Acolyte.

I'm hoping this has overall significance than the events/characters in The Acolyte (didn't watch any of it) were supposed to have. These are supposed to be all new characters? That might be a nice changed from trying to toy around with established characters like Obi Won (didn't watch any of it) or Ahsoka (didn't watch any of it).

 bbb wrote:
I expected to not be interested, but the trailer has me curious. The glimpse of a normal life for a core or inner rim world was something I don't recall seeing much of before. So, this might be something I actually try to watch.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimskul wrote:
I think some of the comments summed it up well as it coming off like Goonies in space, which as a premise isn't terrible by itself but I don't trust Disney with the execution given how they handled Kenobi, Ahsoka, and more recently The Acolyte.

I'm hoping this has overall significance than the events/characters in The Acolyte (didn't watch any of it) were supposed to have. These are supposed to be all new characters? That might be a nice changed from trying to toy around with established characters like Obi Won (didn't watch any of it) or Ahsoka (didn't watch any of it).

Yeah, honestly having something completely new without it being another case of Star Wars Street would be nice, but even the Acolyte that was supposedly trying to break that mold failed at the very end with the clear member berry bait of Plagueis and Yoda being teased at the end, so I wouldn't be surprised if there was some sort of cameo or connection to the larger post ROTJ universe since it feels like they can't help themselves.

I’m more enthused for Skellington Crew now.

I still accept I’m not its target audience, but that trailer suggests there should be enough for me to enjoy as an adult. And I agree a look a Star Wars suburban life is at least something we’ve not seen before.

Skeleton Crew doesn't look all that far off from the other recent SW franchise series. Yall are forgetting that Star Wars was always meant for children - even the very fist ones are family movies. Stuff like Andor and Rogue One are the exception, not the rule

 Grimskul wrote:
Yeah, honestly having something completely new without it being another case of Star Wars Street would be nice, but even the Acolyte that was supposedly trying to break that mold failed at the very end with the clear member berry bait of Plagueis and Yoda being teased at the end, so I wouldn't be surprised if there was some sort of cameo or connection to the larger post ROTJ universe since it feels like they can't help themselves.

Is Yoda "memberberries" when the dude is like a core character to the franchise and is more recognisable than anyone except maybe Vader? How can it be nostalgic when the dude never stopped being there?

 bbb wrote:
I expected to not be interested, but the trailer has me curious. The glimpse of a normal life for a core or inner rim world was something I don't recall seeing much of before. So, this might be something I actually try to watch.

This is pretty much my reaction, fingers crossed this is as light hearted and fun as it looks.

Surprised this hasn't come up in one of the threads yet and we don't have a general
"Disney" thread, but given that the majority of SW shows are on Disney plus, it's probably a good heads up to those who are currently signed up to Disney plus to see how far Disney is reaching with those terms of agreements you sign even for when it's not relevant to Disney plus directly:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MauLer/comments/1es4mpp/disney_are_like_comically_evil_at_this_point_in/

I know we have some Disney diehards on the forum, but would you actually die for Disney? That's the reaaaaaal question.

From what I can gather that article is a bit hyperbole. The clause/contract he signed up for when visiting the restaurant is the SAME one that's in Disney+. Or at least the part relevant to Disney's legal position in this.

It also seems like Disney are distancing themselves from the Restaurant itself which is a separately run entity within the Park.