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Very annoyed at today's announcement that only primaris characters will be HQs for space marines in kill team. And here I was saying there's no way SMs are being phased out.

 Crimson wrote:
I think the fate of current index only options at the dawn of 9th edition will be a good indication of how worried you should be about vanishing rule support for older models.

This.

Which is still at least a year away. We can all relax for a while.

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
Very annoyed at today's announcement that only primaris characters will be HQs for space marines in kill team. And here I was saying there's no way SMs are being phased out.

Wat?

That's alarming.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
Very annoyed at today's announcement that only primaris characters will be HQs for space marines in kill team. And here I was saying there's no way SMs are being phased out.

Wat?

That's alarming.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/10/08/kill-team-commanders-of-the-imperiumgw-homepage-post-1/

And so it begins

 Insectum7 wrote:

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
Very annoyed at today's announcement that only primaris characters will be HQs for space marines in kill team. And here I was saying there's no way SMs are being phased out.

Wat?

That's alarming.

It shouldn't be. Vigilus(the setting for Kill Team at the moment) has Primaris forces as the primaries for the Codex adhering Chapters. Tooth & Claw and Wake the Dead sets are fluffwise on Vigilus, both containing Primaris(from Space Wolves and Ultramarines respectively).

Deathwatch have the Watch Masters plus the Primaris options.

 Kanluwen wrote:

It shouldn't be. Vigilus(the setting for Kill Team at the moment) has Primaris forces as the primaries for the Codex adhering Chapters. Tooth & Claw and Wake the Dead sets are fluffwise on Vigilus, both containing Primaris(from Space Wolves and Ultramarines respectively).

Because GW wrote it so! They intentionally wrote this plot so that they could focus on the Primaris.

Deathwatch have the Watch Masters plus the Primaris options.

Watch Master doesn't currently have a Primaris kit, so it is still used, but Deathwatch only has Primaris Captains. So if a Primaris option for the role exists it will displace the minimarine one.

The commander options for kill team annoy me for to reasons. One not even giving lip service to real marines is beyond annoying. Second, really a Captain or Chaplain option but no tech marine or Apothecary? That doesn't fit the setting.

No one can really be surprised with this though?

There won't be another non-primaris marine kit released going forward - that much is a given.

 NurglesR0T wrote:
No one can really be surprised with this though?

There won't be another non-primaris marine kit released going forward - that much is a given.

I also can't think of a single monopose sprue for a marine captain, librarian, or chaplain that isn't in Terminator armour.

Lemondish wrote:

 NurglesR0T wrote:
No one can really be surprised with this though?

There won't be another non-primaris marine kit released going forward - that much is a given.

I also can't think of a single monopose sprue for a marine captain, librarian, or chaplain that isn't in Terminator armour.

The only non-Terminator kit I can think of it the "Space Marine Commander" box which is a single large multi-part sprue. Most of the non-terminator characters are discontinued metal or Finecast.

Captain
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Space-Marine-Captain

Blood Angel Chaplain
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Blood-Angels-Chaplain-with-Jump-Pack-2017

Dark Angel Interrogator Chaplain
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Dark-Angels-Interrogator-Chaplain-2017

Librarian
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Space-Marine-Librarian

 Togusa wrote:


Why do you think they won't make any more flyers?

Stormcloud Attack - they were attempting to dump what stale stock they had. Death From the Skies - one of their poorer selling books. If flyers were "hot", we would be seeing more such units appear for the game and more stratagems based around incorporating them; they seem to have a poor fit in 8th overall and I would not be surprised if a few years down the road the models quietly slipped away and were replaced with "strafing run/bombing run/grav chute deployment" sort of stratagems that didn't require the model to be present. Heck, even drop pods seem to be in a bit of a slump this edition.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Captain
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Space-Marine-Captain

Blood Angel Chaplain
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Blood-Angels-Chaplain-with-Jump-Pack-2017

Dark Angel Interrogator Chaplain
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Dark-Angels-Interrogator-Chaplain-2017

Librarian
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Space-Marine-Librarian

Chapter specific stuff (not to mention Jump Packs) are already off the table. GW gave us generic Marines with no CT, so it's all paint schemes to tell them apart. Which also means if the only model you have is a chapter specific one it's not getting used.

The other two I'm less sure why they didn't give them rules. Maybe it is all a sign of the end times for the old Marines being supported and pushed less and less going forward. I couldn't tell you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually, a thought crossed my mind as I hit post: never assume the community team has given us 100% of what's in the book. Wait for the book to make calls on if they're getting rules or not.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Captain
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Space-Marine-Captain

Blood Angel Chaplain
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Blood-Angels-Chaplain-with-Jump-Pack-2017

Dark Angel Interrogator Chaplain
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Dark-Angels-Interrogator-Chaplain-2017

Librarian
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Space-Marine-Librarian

The generic chaplain that was released with the librarian is also still available.

Flyers really poorly fit the scale of this game, they really should be more effects than on-table units. They didn't work spectacularly well in 6E/7E either. The flyer transports have sort of a point when they function as basically fast skimmers, but are really awkward beyond that.

Death From the Skies was also just an atrocious supplement, as most stuff of that era was, super low effort in terms of rules and gameplay quality, you basically paid $50 for a picture book.

Drop Pods though are just painfully overcosted, as many transports seem to be.

Wrong thread?

Either way, the Kill Team Primaris thing is not surprising. Kill Team is a new product and they're using it to sell whatever new kits they can. GW has no vested interest in pushing the sales of old kits until they get to the point of trying to get rid of them.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
Very annoyed at today's announcement that only primaris characters will be HQs for space marines in kill team. And here I was saying there's no way SMs are being phased out.

Wat?

That's alarming.

Anyone who didn't see this coming from a mile away was naive as hell.

w1zard wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
Very annoyed at today's announcement that only primaris characters will be HQs for space marines in kill team. And here I was saying there's no way SMs are being phased out.

Wat?

That's alarming.

Anyone who didn't see this coming from a mile away was naive as hell.

After looking at the reference I still don't see it coming.

The Primaris will be more fleshed out in future and the model range will grow, allowing for multiple builds and list variations.

Once that happens, I see no reason for people to stay so loyal to the old Astartes line whilst bashing the Primaris as the models do look better and more imposing on the tabletop.

The current issues with limited models and customisation are only temporary. If you look at the Stormcast it's easy to see how much a range can grow and develop.

That would be a huge problem for marine factions that do not have access to any primaris models. In kill team GK got the horrible champion as their character, and he doesn't even have a model. And no model means not new rules, so he stays bad.

Tyel wrote:
Meh.

Eldar Aspect Warriors were released in 1990, got resin versions in 2006 and somehow in 2018 they still haven't got round to squatting them.

GW isn't going to squat Marines. I can see them never releasing any new oldmarine kits - which might be a deal breaker for you - but that's different to saying you won't be able to use the ones you have. I can see the aesthetic annoyance of having Primaris on the table with oldmarines and it looking out of scale.

But maybe I'm strange on this - I buy models so I can use them today. If I had to wonder about whether or not they were a sound investment for the mid 2020s I'd never buy anything.

Why would they even be out of scale? Primaris marines are taller than regular marines. Makes sense models are bigger. If regular marine models were same size they would be too large.

Saying regular marines are out of scale is like saying dwarves are out of scale because they aren't size of humans models.

tneva82 wrote:

Tyel wrote:
Meh.

Eldar Aspect Warriors were released in 1990, got resin versions in 2006 and somehow in 2018 they still haven't got round to squatting them.

GW isn't going to squat Marines. I can see them never releasing any new oldmarine kits - which might be a deal breaker for you - but that's different to saying you won't be able to use the ones you have. I can see the aesthetic annoyance of having Primaris on the table with oldmarines and it looking out of scale.

But maybe I'm strange on this - I buy models so I can use them today. If I had to wonder about whether or not they were a sound investment for the mid 2020s I'd never buy anything.

Why would they even be out of scale? Primaris marines are taller than regular marines. Makes sense models are bigger. If regular marine models were same size they would be too large.

Saying regular marines are out of scale is like saying dwarves are out of scale because they aren't size of humans models.

Not technically true. Old scale marines ARE out of scale with other humans. They should be taller, just not as tall as Primaris. Deathwatch marines are probably about right.

Regardless of the lore though, I agree with Tyel that fielding Primaris next to Oldscale just looks weird to me.

Problem is not the old marines are too small but humans are too large. How much old marines should be enlargened? They are ATM head shorter than custodes. Which funny enough is how custodes are described. As much taller to marines as marines are to humans aka head taller.

Enlarge old marines and you have to redo whole custodian line.

tneva82 wrote:
Problem is not the old marines are too small but humans are too large. How much old marines should be enlargened? They are ATM head shorter than custodes. Which funny enough is how custodes are described. As much taller to marines as marines are to humans aka head taller.

Enlarge old marines and you have to redo whole custodian line.

not totally..

friend of mine showed me some of his SM 'Heroes' I think ... they were maybe 4mm taller than current old marines but not quite Primaris height.

just enough of a difference to my untrained eye that they looked statuesque but not huge.

Thought GW had said they might release those models outside of Japan (I think~)

tneva82 wrote:
Problem is not the old marines are too small but humans are too large. How much old marines should be enlargened? They are ATM head shorter than custodes. Which funny enough is how custodes are described. As much taller to marines as marines are to humans aka head taller.

Enlarge old marines and you have to redo whole custodian line.

As I say, it's more of an issue to me how it all looks on the tabletop than if it's completely lore accurate. To my eye, old marines look really silly next to Primaris.

As for things like Guardsmen, I don't really have a problem with their height, but their breadth and size of head are definitely out of whack!

Sure, it's heroic scale but still.

I probably shouldn't have said "scale" since I am not a true-scale obsessive and so whether a marine should be x mm tall because he represents Y "feet" compared to guardsmen doesn't really bother me.

So sure I can get that in the fluff primaris are bigger - but on the table mini marines and big marines standing next to each other is really jarring - its not conducive to having a coherent army. On a more exaggerated basis I quite like the redemptor dreadnought and I quite like classic dreadnoughts - but you put them next to each other and they don't look like they belong in the same game system never mind the same roster.

This largely isn't a scale thing - but if someone was running an army which was half the most recent kits, and half the mono-pose plastic models from 20 years ago, it would look weird to me.

Agreed. My vets are kitbashed to have SM torsos, heads, arms, etc on top of intercessor legs, cut just above the belt buckle. Takes about 5 minutes per model, but results in correct scale - oldmarines are a littleshorter and less hench than primaris, but don't break the impression of scale as they normally do. I recommend it for anyone buying oldmarines (the 'leg donors' are quick-assemble intercessors - they can be had from many sources for quite cheap these days.)

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Actually, a thought crossed my mind as I hit post: never assume the community team has given us 100% of what's in the book. Wait for the book to make calls on if they're getting rules or not.

Warhammer 40000 wrote:Kill Team: Commanders is almost upon us – and we've got the full list of Imperial units from the book! Find out which Commanders you'll be able to add to your roster alongside some top tactics:

From here.

 Insectum7 wrote:


After looking at the reference I still don't see it coming.

I have some nice Bretonnian models I'd like to sell to you. They'll be getting a new armybook real soon!