Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2018/10/20 19:41:39
Subject: My talk with ADB more or less confirming the Emperor is not from the DAOT
I love the idea of the Emperor being created during the Dark Age. It fits so perfectly. Humanity, in its own hubristic arrogance tried to create their own chaos God who has now, sort of, run a mock. It'd be even more fitting that, if it wasn't for the emperor, humanity would have been doing much better without him. So, if that was their attempt at a chaos God, did they make an attempt to create a human C'Tan?
2018/10/20 21:07:10
Subject: Re:My talk with ADB more or less confirming the Emperor is not from the DAOT
zedmeister wrote: I love the idea of the Emperor being created during the Dark Age. It fits so perfectly. Humanity, in its own hubristic arrogance tried to create their own chaos God who has now, sort of, run a mock. It'd be even more fitting that, if it wasn't for the emperor, humanity would have been doing much better without him. So, if that was their attempt at a chaos God, did they make an attempt to create a human C'Tan?
Unfortunately, the Perpetuals disprove that. And the book the shaman origin came from in 1st Edition Rogue Trader (and the other books from 1st Edition Rogue Trader) are considered Games Workshop's best writing. 1st Edition Rogue Trader was the first and the best.
And ADB said we can safely say he is not DAOT. He wrote Master of Mankind.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/20 21:46:03
2018/10/21 06:36:37
Subject: My talk with ADB more or less confirming the Emperor is not from the DAOT
Onething123456 wrote: Unfortunately, the Perpetuals disprove that. And the book the shaman origin came from in 1st Edition Rogue Trader (and the other books from 1st Edition Rogue Trader) are considered Games Workshop's best writing. 1st Edition Rogue Trader was the first and the best.
And ADB said we can safely say he is not DAOT. He wrote Master of Mankind.
MoM? The book that had this quote?
Tell me that, Custodian. Have you ever heard Him breathe? He is a relic left over from the Dark Age. A weapon left out of its box, now running rampant.
Lots came from back in the early days. The emperor origin actually appeared in realm of chaos and not rogue trader. Alongside it the star child backstory was also given. But that has since been left by the wayside. And who knows what the perpetuals met? It is plausible the emperor was a perpetual but nothing beyond that and he that was experimented upon. Or, the fact that he's so powerful he could have implanted those memories after his creation. Or maybe the perpetuals were part of parallel dark age experiment with implanted false memories as well?
And, until it is stated in a book that the emperor is a result of the shaman sacrifice, competing theories will always remain. It was the late great Alan Blighs favourite theory as well, so who knows what notes were written by him with that theory in mind...
2018/10/21 07:51:31
Subject: My talk with ADB more or less confirming the Emperor is not from the DAOT
Onething123456 wrote: Unfortunately, the Perpetuals disprove that. And the book the shaman origin came from in 1st Edition Rogue Trader (and the other books from 1st Edition Rogue Trader) are considered Games Workshop's best writing. 1st Edition Rogue Trader was the first and the best.
And ADB said we can safely say he is not DAOT. He wrote Master of Mankind.
MoM? The book that had this quote?
Tell me that, Custodian. Have you ever heard Him breathe? He is a relic left over from the Dark Age. A weapon left out of its box, now running rampant.
Lots came from back in the early days. The emperor origin actually appeared in realm of chaos and not rogue trader. Alongside it the star child backstory was also given. But that has since been left by the wayside. And who knows what the perpetuals met? It is plausible the emperor was a perpetual but nothing beyond that and he that was experimented upon. Or, the fact that he's so powerful he could have implanted those memories after his creation. Or maybe the perpetuals were part of parallel dark age experiment with implanted false memories as well?
And, until it is stated in a book that the emperor is a result of the shaman sacrifice, competing theories will always remain. It was the late great Alan Blighs favourite theory as well, so who knows what notes were written by him with that theory in mind...
And did Zu realize that when you look at the Emperor you see what he wants you to see? You don't see him breath as a 16 foot tall golden gaint because he is trying (and is) looking Godlike. His real form is probably a normal human.
I know that. I don't mean Rick Priestley's book from 1987, I mean the edition itself. 1st Edition Rogue Trader, not the book.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/10/21 07:54:38
2018/10/21 08:56:52
Subject: My talk with ADB more or less confirming the Emperor is not from the DAOT
How many people genuinely consider that rogue trader era writing is GW's best? It's barely coherent in some places. I know even now there is plenty of conflicting lore, but some of the rogue trader stuff is utter crap. Space Marines being criminals in power armour anyone?
phillv85 wrote: How many people genuinely consider that rogue trader era writing is GW's best? It's barely coherent in some places. I know even now there is plenty of conflicting lore, but some of the rogue trader stuff is utter crap. Space Marines being criminals in power armour anyone?
Many Youtubers do. And a lot of friends of mine on Reddit do.
2018/10/21 08:59:49
Subject: My talk with ADB more or less confirming the Emperor is not from the DAOT
Manchu wrote: I think ian Watson’s novels are generally the best written 40k stuff ever.
Most people who have been following 40k since 1st Edition Rogue Trader think that 1st Edition Rogue Trader was the best.
Don't think that is true for one moment.
Most of the RT era stuff is laughably bad in so many ways, not least as it was pretty much throw everything at the wall and see what sticks.
The Bestiary being basically the entire citadel mini range of the time is an example of that.
And I think most people would agree the current Ultramarine background makes much more sense than the RT era one presented in WD.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
2018/10/21 10:19:14
Subject: My talk with ADB more or less confirming the Emperor is not from the DAOT
Onething123456 wrote: Unfortunately, the Perpetuals disprove that. And the book the shaman origin came from in 1st Edition Rogue Trader (and the other books from 1st Edition Rogue Trader) are considered Games Workshop's best writing. 1st Edition Rogue Trader was the first and the best.
And ADB said we can safely say he is not DAOT. He wrote Master of Mankind.
MoM? The book that had this quote?
Tell me that, Custodian. Have you ever heard Him breathe? He is a relic left over from the Dark Age. A weapon left out of its box, now running rampant.
Lots came from back in the early days. The emperor origin actually appeared in realm of chaos and not rogue trader. Alongside it the star child backstory was also given. But that has since been left by the wayside. And who knows what the perpetuals met? It is plausible the emperor was a perpetual but nothing beyond that and he that was experimented upon. Or, the fact that he's so powerful he could have implanted those memories after his creation. Or maybe the perpetuals were part of parallel dark age experiment with implanted false memories as well?
And, until it is stated in a book that the emperor is a result of the shaman sacrifice, competing theories will always remain. It was the late great Alan Blighs favourite theory as well, so who knows what notes were written by him with that theory in mind...
A lot of people mean the entire first edition when they say rogue trader era fluff. It was a long time. And although in the actual rogue trader book some of the stuff is iffy, the way the universe was fluffed out in that era was some of the best work done. The realm of chaos books and the ORK books are unsurpassed by anything that has come since. The imperial guard have lost their flavour with the coming of second edition real world equivalents and are still recovering. The eldar story hasn’t much changed and has been guided by jes Goodwin and co so is still owes it’s goodness to the first edition era.
The description of the emperor in RT is one of the more sensible, a mutant born of normal people who hid for thousands of years getting wiser and stronger until he decided it was time. But that said I prefer the shaman theory and the starchild stuff. But the more I hear the more I like the idea of the emperor being tampered with or replaced with DAOT tech.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also the perpetuals are awful (and NOT well written!!!!) and I really don’t get why they were included at all. I never once thought that the setting needed some immortal comic book style know it alls who happen to have been at every part of current human history just for Easter eggs.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/21 10:21:11
2018/10/21 10:25:48
Subject: My talk with ADB more or less confirming the Emperor is not from the DAOT
Yeah, over the years Realm of Chaos and The Lost and the Damned are the two books I have heard talked up the most, and the prices on ebay over the years seem to corroborate that there is demand for them.
Things like "best fluff" and "well written" are a TOTALLY subjective opinion. (unless you mean from an academic literature POV, and if thats the case I got news for you, NOTHING in 40k would qualify as high end Literature) So insisting "EVERYONE ACCEPT THIS BECAUSE IT WAS THE BEST" is to put it bluntly, more then a little arrogant.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
2018/10/21 10:48:03
Subject: My talk with ADB more or less confirming the Emperor is not from the DAOT
phillv85 wrote: How many people genuinely consider that rogue trader era writing is GW's best? It's barely coherent in some places. I know even now there is plenty of conflicting lore, but some of the rogue trader stuff is utter crap. Space Marines being criminals in power armour anyone?
I think I prefer those Marines over what we have today. Tough merciless killers with some serious issues, not overblinged demigods of battle. RT fluff has the sort of freshness and genuinity has gotten lost over the years. The setting now is so pompous. Compare the picture of Leman Russ in the RT book to the current shiny depictions of Guilliman, the difference in tone is stark.
Manchu wrote: Yeah, over the years Realm of Chaos and The Lost and the Damned are the two books I have heard talked up the most, and the prices on ebay over the years seem to corroborate that there is demand for them.
Slaves to darkness (the real first one) is available from Warhammer world. That book and the ORK ones are what truly got me hooked onto 40k.
phillv85 wrote: How many people genuinely consider that rogue trader era writing is GW's best? It's barely coherent in some places. I know even now there is plenty of conflicting lore, but some of the rogue trader stuff is utter crap. Space Marines being criminals in power armour anyone?
I think I prefer those Marines over what we have today. Tough merciless killers with some serious issues, not overblinged demigods of battle. RT fluff has the sort of freshness and genuinity has gotten lost over the years. The setting now is so pompous. Compare the picture of Leman Russ in the RT book to the current shiny depictions of Guilliman, the difference in tone is stark.
That’s why I like primaris. It’s wiping the slate clean for marines. Losing all that bling and 30k BL “personality”. I have been reinvigorated by them and have fluffed out a lovely chapter all about fighting. No daddy issue in sight.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/21 11:36:24
2018/10/21 11:40:46
Subject: My talk with ADB more or less confirming the Emperor is not from the DAOT
That’s why I like primaris. It’s wiping the slate clean for marines. Losing all that bling and 30k BL “personality”. I have been reinvigorated by them and have fluffed out a lovely chapter all about fighting. No daddy issue in sight.
Yeah, I agree. I have leafed through a lot of BT era stuff for inspiration for my Primaris marines.
That’s why I like primaris. It’s wiping the slate clean for marines. Losing all that bling and 30k BL “personality”. I have been reinvigorated by them and have fluffed out a lovely chapter all about fighting. No daddy issue in sight.
Yeah, I agree. I have leafed through a lot of BT era stuff for inspiration for my Primaris marines.
I plan to put my primaris on here soon. Bit more painting to be done but I want fluff and all of it on here. Problem is they donation marines of the gender that must not be spoken so it could go wrong.
2018/10/21 13:59:03
Subject: My talk with ADB more or less confirming the Emperor is not from the DAOT
Manchu wrote: I think ian Watson’s novels are generally the best written 40k stuff ever.
Most people who have been following 40k since 1st Edition Rogue Trader think that 1st Edition Rogue Trader was the best.
Don't think that is true for one moment.
Most of the RT era stuff is laughably bad in so many ways, not least as it was pretty much throw everything at the wall and see what sticks.
The Bestiary being basically the entire citadel mini range of the time is an example of that.
And I think most people would agree the current Ultramarine background makes much more sense than the RT era one presented in WD.
Do you have proof for any of this? Why do you say that? Rogue Trader, Realm of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness, and Realm of Chaos: The Lost and The Damned are popular books.
Leakycheese on YouTube has been following since 1st Edition Rogue Trader, and he, like many who have been following as long as him, think that 1st Edition Rogue Trader had some of the best lore around. The shaman origin, Sensei and Star Child were well written (for them, at least).
Automatically Appended Next Post:
phillv85 wrote: How many people genuinely consider that rogue trader era writing is GW's best? It's barely coherent in some places. I know even now there is plenty of conflicting lore, but some of the rogue trader stuff is utter crap. Space Marines being criminals in power armour anyone?
Marines at that time were criminals who were mind wiped . That is all. And many of them are still that way in current lore.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/10/21 14:13:16
2018/10/21 14:50:53
Subject: My talk with ADB more or less confirming the Emperor is not from the DAOT
That’s why I like primaris. It’s wiping the slate clean for marines. Losing all that bling and 30k BL “personality”. I have been reinvigorated by them and have fluffed out a lovely chapter all about fighting. No daddy issue in sight.
Yeah, I agree. I have leafed through a lot of BT era stuff for inspiration for my Primaris marines.
Except Primaris marines are even more noble bright than normal marines. They are super duper marines that barely even share there chapters flaws or quarks. They marines just more generic and better cause reasons.
2018/10/21 14:56:59
Subject: My talk with ADB more or less confirming the Emperor is not from the DAOT
That’s why I like primaris. It’s wiping the slate clean for marines. Losing all that bling and 30k BL “personality”. I have been reinvigorated by them and have fluffed out a lovely chapter all about fighting. No daddy issue in sight.
Yeah, I agree. I have leafed through a lot of BT era stuff for inspiration for my Primaris marines.
Except Primaris marines are even more noble bright than normal marines. They are super duper marines that barely even share there chapters flaws or quarks. They marines just more generic and better cause reasons.
The fluff has gone hell in a handbasket a long time ago. The models are plain and functional and evoke the similar feel than the RT beakies. Though even in the fluff they have more 'soldier' feel, they're not so steeped in all that warrior monk stuff.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/21 14:58:37
Excommunicatus wrote: Remember when Black Library authors said Dreadnoughts could ride in Land Raiders?
Good times.
In 2nd Edition, Dreadnoughts could ride in Land Raiders, as per the vehicle datafax that came with the starter box.
Just thought I'd point that out.
Cool story. I bought the book that features this in 6th Ed., so by the 'logic' presented here, they still can and will always be able to ride in Land Raiders. 'Cause a single BL 'writer' said so, once. For some bizarre reason they can't do so in-game and are never depicted doing so in the fluff any more. Weird, huh?
Almost as if a single BL 'writer' doesn't get to arbitrarily and unilaterally dictate aspects of the universe.
Excommunicatus wrote: Remember when Black Library authors said Dreadnoughts could ride in Land Raiders?
Good times.
In 2nd Edition, Dreadnoughts could ride in Land Raiders, as per the vehicle datafax that came with the starter box.
Just thought I'd point that out.
Cool story. I bought the book that features this in 6th Ed., so by the 'logic' presented here, they still can and will always be able to ride in Land Raiders. 'Cause a single BL 'writer' said so, once. For some bizarre reason they can't do so in-game and are never depicted doing so in the fluff any more. Weird, huh?
Almost as if a single BL 'writer' doesn't get to arbitrarily and unilaterally dictate aspects of the universe.
That's a strangely sarcastic and antagonistic reply to a post simply stating a fun fact.
Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.
Excerpt from "Seeress of Kell", Book Five of The Malloreon series by David Eddings.
"You need not fear us, unless you are a dark heart, a vile one who preys on the innocent; I promise, you can’t hide forever in the empty darkness, for we will hunt you down like the animals you are, and pull you into the very bowels of hell." Iron - Within Temptation
2018/10/21 16:08:16
Subject: My talk with ADB more or less confirming the Emperor is not from the DAOT
Manchu wrote: I think ian Watson’s novels are generally the best written 40k stuff ever.
Most people who have been following 40k since 1st Edition Rogue Trader think that 1st Edition Rogue Trader was the best.
Don't think that is true for one moment.
Most of the RT era stuff is laughably bad in so many ways, not least as it was pretty much throw everything at the wall and see what sticks.
The Bestiary being basically the entire citadel mini range of the time is an example of that.
And I think most people would agree the current Ultramarine background makes much more sense than the RT era one presented in WD.
Do you have proof for any of this? Why do you say that? Rogue Trader, Realm of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness, and Realm of Chaos: The Lost and The Damned are popular books.
I... I don't think you understand the difference between fact and opinion do you?
You're stating your own opinions as if they're categorical facts and the RT books that you love so much were some kind of edict from on high. They're not.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/21 16:08:40
Games Workshop Delenda Est.
Users on ignore- 53.
If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them.
2018/10/21 16:09:19
Subject: My talk with ADB more or less confirming the Emperor is not from the DAOT
Manchu wrote: I think ian Watson’s novels are generally the best written 40k stuff ever.
Most people who have been following 40k since 1st Edition Rogue Trader think that 1st Edition Rogue Trader was the best.
Don't think that is true for one moment.
Most of the RT era stuff is laughably bad in so many ways, not least as it was pretty much throw everything at the wall and see what sticks.
The Bestiary being basically the entire citadel mini range of the time is an example of that.
And I think most people would agree the current Ultramarine background makes much more sense than the RT era one presented in WD.
Do you have proof for any of this? Why do you say that? Rogue Trader, Realm of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness, and Realm of Chaos: The Lost and The Damned are popular books.
I... I don't think you understand the difference between fact and opinion do you?
You're stating your own opinions as if they're categorical facts and the RT books that you love so much were some kind of edict from on high. They're not.
I do. Its the opinion of many players that 1st Edition Rogue Trader was the best, not that it factually is.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/21 16:21:05
2018/10/21 16:13:30
Subject: My talk with ADB more or less confirming the Emperor is not from the DAOT
Manchu wrote: I think ian Watson’s novels are generally the best written 40k stuff ever.
Most people who have been following 40k since 1st Edition Rogue Trader think that 1st Edition Rogue Trader was the best.
Don't think that is true for one moment.
Most of the RT era stuff is laughably bad in so many ways, not least as it was pretty much throw everything at the wall and see what sticks.
The Bestiary being basically the entire citadel mini range of the time is an example of that.
And I think most people would agree the current Ultramarine background makes much more sense than the RT era one presented in WD.
Do you have proof for any of this? Why do you say that? Rogue Trader, Realm of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness, and Realm of Chaos: The Lost and The Damned are popular books.
I... I don't think you understand the difference between fact and opinion do you?
You're stating your own opinions as if they're categorical facts and the RT books that you love so much were some kind of edict from on high. They're not.
I do. Its the opinion of many players that 1st Edition ROgue Trader was the best, not that it factually is.
So, who told you that? I can't comment on that specifically, since I started in early 7th, but it seems that a lot of the other people here who DID start that early think the fluff is kinda disjointed and weird. There's good elements, certainly, but it's not the best to them.
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
2018/10/21 16:14:28
Subject: My talk with ADB more or less confirming the Emperor is not from the DAOT
Manchu wrote: I think ian Watson’s novels are generally the best written 40k stuff ever.
Most people who have been following 40k since 1st Edition Rogue Trader think that 1st Edition Rogue Trader was the best.
Don't think that is true for one moment.
Most of the RT era stuff is laughably bad in so many ways, not least as it was pretty much throw everything at the wall and see what sticks.
The Bestiary being basically the entire citadel mini range of the time is an example of that.
And I think most people would agree the current Ultramarine background makes much more sense than the RT era one presented in WD.
Do you have proof for any of this? Why do you say that? Rogue Trader, Realm of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness, and Realm of Chaos: The Lost and The Damned are popular books.
I... I don't think you understand the difference between fact and opinion do you?
You're stating your own opinions as if they're categorical facts and the RT books that you love so much were some kind of edict from on high. They're not.
I do. Its the opinion of many players that 1st Edition ROgue Trader was the best, not that it factually is.
Okay, prove it. You say you evidence- where is it?
I would argue the vast majority of people play GW's games nowadays have never even heard of RT, much less were even born when it first appeared. Same goes for 2nd ed.
Games Workshop Delenda Est.
Users on ignore- 53.
If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them.
2018/10/21 16:20:02
Subject: My talk with ADB more or less confirming the Emperor is not from the DAOT
Manchu wrote: I think ian Watson’s novels are generally the best written 40k stuff ever.
Most people who have been following 40k since 1st Edition Rogue Trader think that 1st Edition Rogue Trader was the best.
Don't think that is true for one moment.
Most of the RT era stuff is laughably bad in so many ways, not least as it was pretty much throw everything at the wall and see what sticks.
The Bestiary being basically the entire citadel mini range of the time is an example of that.
And I think most people would agree the current Ultramarine background makes much more sense than the RT era one presented in WD.
Do you have proof for any of this? Why do you say that? Rogue Trader, Realm of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness, and Realm of Chaos: The Lost and The Damned are popular books.
I... I don't think you understand the difference between fact and opinion do you?
You're stating your own opinions as if they're categorical facts and the RT books that you love so much were some kind of edict from on high. They're not.
I do. Its the opinion of many players that 1st Edition ROgue Trader was the best, not that it factually is.
Okay, prove it. You say you evidence- where is it?
I would argue the vast majority of people play GW's games nowadays have never even heard of RT, much less were even born when it first appeared. Same goes for 2nd ed.
I gave a link to Leakycheese on YouTube. Good Youtuber who was around in 1st Edition Rogue Trader.
2018/10/21 16:21:48
Subject: My talk with ADB more or less confirming the Emperor is not from the DAOT
2200pts/1750 painted
2800pts/1200 painted
2200pts/650 painted
217pts/151 painted 
