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 Nevelon wrote:

 cole1114 wrote:
I think a big problem with drop pods in 8th is everyone expected them to work like they did last edition and be super useful for assault armies, when they're significantly better for shooty armies.

Even then they costed too much for that, but the points drop should make them viable for getting objective secured around the board.

One problem is that they are not that great for shooty armies. The whole 9” away thing really hurt them for delivering flamers and melta. The fact that both the weapons that pods excelled at getting into optimal range also faired poorly in 8th is icing on the cake. So what shooty units would you want to pod? Sternguard are sill somewhat viable. Pods can get you into rapid fire range. Plasma spam? You could (assuming you are not souping in scions).

Marines assault units generally already have a DS option. No need to pod.

Rhinos also got a lot better. Less fragile, and can do tricks like charging units to tie them up/soak overwatch. Pods just sit there.

And shoot. And hold objectives . Until someone wastes the effort to get rid of them.
And in my last game my Thousand Sons opponent was pretty annoyed by them - he had a # of psykers & dearly wanted to smite various of my units. But he couldn't. Because of where I'd landed pods. If he used smite he had to waste it on pods. In a few cases the pods were also in positions to shoot the psykers back. I killed two of them like this. In order for him to get away from smiting the pods? He was forced to move into far less optimal positions. Wich led to 2 more dead psykers.

As for what shooty unit I like to put in a pod? Multi-Melta armed Longfangs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crimson_ wrote:
I don't really see why you would use devastators in a pod when you can have inceptors with short range heavy bolters or plasma. Plasma especially with Dark Angels and WotDA.

Because I don't own, need, (or even really want) any primaris.
Because I intentionally built my entire SW force as DS capable - so this means that my Grey Hunters, characters, & Longfangs all ride in pods.

 alextroy wrote:
Nice to see the juicy leaks, but this unfortunately seems to tell us we are only getting points changes from the Codex/Index rather than a full on points listing. Lots of units missing between Ghostkeel and Riptide for that not to be the case.

Not in the elite section


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 alextroy wrote:
Unless this is a list of the Elite Units, there are a lot of units missing from the alphabetical order, like Pathfinders. Are Krootox Riders Elites?

Yes

Ctanforlife wrote:
More leaks

Just throwing this out there, but the last CA was black and white, not codex colored.

ERJAK wrote:

Ctanforlife wrote:
More leaks

Just throwing this out there, but the last CA was black and white, not codex colored.

Also, they were identified as fake, so there's that.

At least those shots of data sheets/points costs.

Lemondish wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

Ctanforlife wrote:
More leaks

Just throwing this out there, but the last CA was black and white, not codex colored.

Also, they were identified as fake, so there's that.

At least those shots of data sheets/points costs.

I keep seeing people saying that, but no actual proof.

Yes we also have no idea how they are formating the book either.

They could be using the same colours from the codexes to separate each list of points immediately. You'd recognize the same colour as what's in your book

Chapter Approved 2017 also had shaded points entries though. It could be that they chose a stronger blue to make it look better.

If they are putting all point costs in like a general hand book, they might colour code like the codex for familiarity.

I've seen people call it fake, but no proof.

I just gotta hope for that crisis suit buff to be real.

Sir Heckington wrote:
If they are putting all point costs in like a general hand book, they might colour code like the codex for familiarity.

I've seen people call it fake, but no proof.

I just gotta hope for that crisis suit buff to be real.

Could be, they could change pretty much anything. But precedent is that they don't use codex colors in CA. It makes it more likely to be fake, though not necessarily guaranteed to be. They don't color code the General's Handbook either, for what it's worth.

Sir Heckington wrote:
If they are putting all point costs in like a general hand book, they might colour code like the codex for familiarity.

I've seen people call it fake, but no proof.

I just gotta hope for that crisis suit buff to be real.

Sorry, I posted about it in the other thread.

According to the B&C thread all of these pics originated: Yep those are 100% fake. The guy who made those sent this picture to our local tau community. He intended to make a joke for them. So i'm sorry i posted those here. Though those about space marines aren't made by him, so those can be true.

Lemondish wrote:

Sir Heckington wrote:
If they are putting all point costs in like a general hand book, they might colour code like the codex for familiarity.

I've seen people call it fake, but no proof.

I just gotta hope for that crisis suit buff to be real.

Sorry, I posted about it in the other thread.

According to the B&C thread all of these pics originated: Yep those are 100% fake. The guy who made those sent this picture to our local tau community. He intended to make a joke for them. So i'm sorry i posted those here. Though those about space marines aren't made by him, so those can be true.

Well damn. I already had my all crisis suit list planned out...

486+666+720+127 = 1,999

9 man team with BC+Shield Gens

9 man team with CiBs + Shield Gens (The spawn of satan??????)

9 man team with FBs + Shield Gens

1 Xv8 Commander with CIB, FB, BC, and shield gen

Ah well, back on the shelf they go until we find out.

I mean, there was no way the Stormsurge one could be true, it would be a Titan killer taking +2 Saviours, with Stim Injectors, etc.

 Quickjager wrote:
I mean, there was no way the Stormsurge one could be true, it would be a Titan killer taking +2 Saviours, with Stim Injectors, etc.

The funny part was that that bunch of leaks also included 4+ SP

 Quickjager wrote:
I mean, there was no way the Stormsurge one could be true, it would be a Titan killer taking +2 Saviours, with Stim Injectors, etc.

Saviours was changed to 4+ as part of the fake leak.

I just wish that Drukhari remain a solid army since it's been decades of struggling and now they're good but not overpowered.

I'd agree about some stuff getting hikes in prices but then some other underpoerforming or overcosted units should be fixed. Ravagers could get +10 points, grotesques +5 and talos +5/10, kabalites +1, stop. Maybe the jetfighter could be +5 points too. But wyches must be 6-7 ppm, incubi 13ppm at most, cronos 60ppm. Also the haemy could be slightly cheaper.

Not a flat nerf to the army, which isn't OP at all without the soup. Nerf the soup instead.

SW need some points reductions, but mostly minor changes. 10/14 points for the Claws are insane for example. I'd also like 11-12 ppm Blood Claws since they're just SM with BS4+ and a pistol, they can't be priced like regular marines.

Orks are too new, they won't be covered in CA.

 Blackie wrote:
Not a flat nerf to the army, which isn't OP at all without the soup. Nerf the soup instead.

Not going to happen, as much as you or I may want it. Have fun being costed with the assumption you're shooting into a Doomed target all the time.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
Not a flat nerf to the army, which isn't OP at all without the soup. Nerf the soup instead.

Not going to happen, as much as you or I may want it. Have fun being costed with the assumption you're shooting into a Doomed target all the time.

They aren't costed as if they are shooting into Doomed units though.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
Not a flat nerf to the army, which isn't OP at all without the soup. Nerf the soup instead.

Not going to happen, as much as you or I may want it. Have fun being costed with the assumption you're shooting into a Doomed target all the time.

I will say that sounds not at all like the reality today.

Though you want to talk about cost assumptions? How about an entire army being costed around always bringing a 400 point buffbot.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
I believe that matches the precedent set by the General's Handbook. Which is the right way to do things so I'm glad they're adopting that format.

Or people really like to screw with the Tau community it seems.

Lemondish wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
Not a flat nerf to the army, which isn't OP at all without the soup. Nerf the soup instead.

Not going to happen, as much as you or I may want it. Have fun being costed with the assumption you're shooting into a Doomed target all the time.

I will say that sounds not at all like the reality today.

Though you want to talk about cost assumptions? How about an entire army being costed around always bringing a 400 point buffbot.

Or a faction that can't even take the buffbot (Dark Angels in my case) but because our basic units are the same they are costed the same.

So assuming that the army wide -1 to hit gets changed, I think Reapers could do with a price drop since much of their usefulness will be going away with it. There are what, maybe a dozen units in the game that have native -1 to hit that aren’t fliers. If their ability to hit on 3+ goes from being useful against two top tier lists, namely AL and Alaitoc, to not being nearly as useful, that should warrant a price drop. Or perhaps a change from “always hit on 3+ to “targets do not get the benefit of cover”. This change would keep them just as relevant if stacking minus to hit becomes a thing of the past. Thoughts?

Drukhari are pretty op atm. Compare talos and grotesques to assault elements from other codices. Just for starters.


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Dawnstrider wrote:
So assuming that the army wide -1 to hit gets changed, I think Reapers could do with a price drop since much of their usefulness will be going away with it. There are what, maybe a dozen units in the game that have native -1 to hit that aren’t fliers. If their ability to hit on 3+ goes from being useful against two top tier lists, namely AL and Alaitoc, to not being nearly as useful, that should warrant a price drop. Or perhaps a change from “always hit on 3+ to “targets do not get the benefit of cover”. This change would keep them just as relevant if stacking minus to hit becomes a thing of the past. Thoughts?

Reapers will still be undercosted even if alaitoc gets changed.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
I believe that matches the precedent set by the General's Handbook. Which is the right way to do things so I'm glad they're adopting that format.

Or people really like to screw with the Tau community it seems.

Can you think of a better target?

Idk, I really liked the idea of SP being on a 4+. 2+ is pretty annoying, due to how many of the damned things there are.

Martel732 wrote:
Drukhari are pretty op atm. Compare talos and grotesques to assault elements from other codices. Just for starters.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dawnstrider wrote:
So assuming that the army wide -1 to hit gets changed, I think Reapers could do with a price drop since much of their usefulness will be going away with it. There are what, maybe a dozen units in the game that have native -1 to hit that aren’t fliers. If their ability to hit on 3+ goes from being useful against two top tier lists, namely AL and Alaitoc, to not being nearly as useful, that should warrant a price drop. Or perhaps a change from “always hit on 3+ to “targets do not get the benefit of cover”. This change would keep them just as relevant if stacking minus to hit becomes a thing of the past. Thoughts?

Reapers will still be undercosted even if alaitoc gets changed.

Reapers are a T3 3+ 1W 34 point model. Without turns 1 deep strike or the Alaitoc trait to babysit them, they become quite the risky bet (as they should have always been).

Dawnstrider wrote:
So assuming that the army wide -1 to hit gets changed, I think Reapers could do with a price drop since much of their usefulness will be going away with it. There are what, maybe a dozen units in the game that have native -1 to hit that aren’t fliers. If their ability to hit on 3+ goes from being useful against two top tier lists, namely AL and Alaitoc, to not being nearly as useful, that should warrant a price drop. Or perhaps a change from “always hit on 3+ to “targets do not get the benefit of cover”. This change would keep them just as relevant if stacking minus to hit becomes a thing of the past. Thoughts?

I would be okay with this or a price drop.

I'm still not sure drop pods being 64 points (66 with SB) will make them anymore usable in a Marine army.

If the hoped for reduction in points comes through for standard Marines, you're still looking at least 174 points (10-man tac squad) that sits off the table for a turn, then basically just offers you obsec as it's not like you want to charge them into anything, and have to make a 9" anyway.

Devestators and Sternguard are expensive, unless changed. Devs also get hit with the movement penalty after disembarking - so, if you're going to pod them in, you might as well just hide them out of LoS turn 1 and move them turn 1 for the extra round of shooting and less points spent.

Who knows what is going to happen - i'm just getting more and more impatient waiting for it though!

Spoletta wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Drukhari are pretty op atm. Compare talos and grotesques to assault elements from other codices. Just for starters.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dawnstrider wrote:
So assuming that the army wide -1 to hit gets changed, I think Reapers could do with a price drop since much of their usefulness will be going away with it. There are what, maybe a dozen units in the game that have native -1 to hit that aren’t fliers. If their ability to hit on 3+ goes from being useful against two top tier lists, namely AL and Alaitoc, to not being nearly as useful, that should warrant a price drop. Or perhaps a change from “always hit on 3+ to “targets do not get the benefit of cover”. This change would keep them just as relevant if stacking minus to hit becomes a thing of the past. Thoughts?

Reapers will still be undercosted even if alaitoc gets changed.

Reapers are a T3 3+ 1W 34 point model. Without turns 1 deep strike or the Alaitoc trait to babysit them, they become quite the risky bet (as they should have always been).

Their range keeps them pretty safe, as does insta-gibbing anything that deep strikes.

Martel732 wrote:

Spoletta wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Drukhari are pretty op atm. Compare talos and grotesques to assault elements from other codices. Just for starters.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dawnstrider wrote:
So assuming that the army wide -1 to hit gets changed, I think Reapers could do with a price drop since much of their usefulness will be going away with it. There are what, maybe a dozen units in the game that have native -1 to hit that aren’t fliers. If their ability to hit on 3+ goes from being useful against two top tier lists, namely AL and Alaitoc, to not being nearly as useful, that should warrant a price drop. Or perhaps a change from “always hit on 3+ to “targets do not get the benefit of cover”. This change would keep them just as relevant if stacking minus to hit becomes a thing of the past. Thoughts?

Reapers will still be undercosted even if alaitoc gets changed.

Reapers are a T3 3+ 1W 34 point model. Without turns 1 deep strike or the Alaitoc trait to babysit them, they become quite the risky bet (as they should have always been).

Their range keeps them pretty safe, as does insta-gibbing anything that deep strikes.

The amount of things that threatens them increases by a lot without the alaitoc trait. They evaporate against Tau or AM, and hyve guards make a mess out of them.

 Blackie wrote:
I just wish that Drukhari remain a solid army since it's been decades of struggling and now they're good but not overpowered.

I'd agree about some stuff getting hikes in prices but then some other underpoerforming or overcosted units should be fixed. Ravagers could get +10 points, grotesques +5 and talos +5/10, kabalites +1, stop. Maybe the jetfighter could be +5 points too. But wyches must be 6-7 ppm, incubi 13ppm at most, cronos 60ppm. Also the haemy could be slightly cheaper.

Not a flat nerf to the army, which isn't OP at all without the soup. Nerf the soup instead.

SW need some points reductions, but mostly minor changes. 10/14 points for the Claws are insane for example. I'd also like 11-12 ppm Blood Claws since they're just SM with BS4+ and a pistol, they can't be priced like regular marines.

Orks are too new, they won't be covered in CA.

Laughable statament