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GW just need to be clear on what traits are meant to be.

They could be a small nod to the fluff, offering tiny bonuses to the units which you would expect to see in a fluffy army. This could be extremely incidental. So for Eldar it could be Alaitoc=+1 save for Rangers (and just rangers). Wind Riders and Vipers get +1 movement with Saim Hann. Beil-Tan, Ulthwe and Iyanden give +1 Ld to Aspect Warriors, Guardians and Wraithguard respectively.

These abilities are token in themselves - so are almost certainly not worth building lists around. But they could "represent the fluff" for people who really care about that.

At the opposite extreme you have big powers to open up alternative builds. So say Wraithguard are pretty "meh" on their own - but maybe they become competitive with Iyanden's buff. Same for Jet bikes, aspect warriors etc and their respective craftworld. This would allow GW to create more "mini" armies and potentially encourage players to expand their collections. Warmahordes 2.0 had problems - but the idea that certain commanders elevated certain units towards a competitive tier wasn't a terrible one (imo anyway, I think the game keeled over due to bloat). Chapter tactics could have done that in 40k.

As it stands however we just have abilities with massive deviations in power (some of which are clearly phoned in) and so its a relatively simple process of identifying which ones are competitive and which ones are garbage. There is an attempt to complicate this, and encourage inter-faction souping, by throwing in warlord traits, relics and stratagems, but by and large its still obvious.

Also we are probably 24 hours from someone reading out the points in CA over a youtube video and yet there are still no leaks. Congrats to operation potato camera, but my frustration is infinite.

Tyel wrote:
GW just need to be clear on what traits are meant to be.

They could be a small nod to the fluff, offering tiny bonuses to the units which you would expect to see in a fluffy army. This could be extremely incidental. So for Eldar it could be Alaitoc=+1 save for Rangers (and just rangers). Wind Riders and Vipers get +1 movement with Saim Hann. Beil-Tan, Ulthwe and Iyanden give +1 Ld to Aspect Warriors, Guardians and Wraithguard respectively.

These abilities are token in themselves - so are almost certainly not worth building lists around. But they could "represent the fluff" for people who really care about that.

At the opposite extreme you have big powers to open up alternative builds. So say Wraithguard are pretty "meh" on their own - but maybe they become competitive with Iyanden's buff. Same for Jet bikes, aspect warriors etc and their respective craftworld. This would allow GW to create more "mini" armies and potentially encourage players to expand their collections. Warmahordes 2.0 had problems - but the idea that certain commanders elevated certain units towards a competitive tier wasn't a terrible one (imo anyway, I think the game keeled over due to bloat). Chapter tactics could have done that in 40k.

As it stands however we just have abilities with massive deviations in power (some of which are clearly phoned in) and so its a relatively simple process of identifying which ones are competitive and which ones are garbage. There is an attempt to complicate this, and encourage inter-faction souping, by throwing in warlord traits, relics and stratagems, but by and large its still obvious.

Also we are probably 24 hours from someone reading out the points in CA over a youtube video and yet there are still no leaks. Congrats to operation potato camera, but my frustration is infinite.

I think that about sums it up. Well said.

Leaks here:

(get ready to be disappointed on some fronts )

https://imgur.com/gallery/PVf1Vsr

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:

Tyel wrote:
GW just need to be clear on what traits are meant to be.

They could be a small nod to the fluff, offering tiny bonuses to the units which you would expect to see in a fluffy army. This could be extremely incidental. So for Eldar it could be Alaitoc=+1 save for Rangers (and just rangers). Wind Riders and Vipers get +1 movement with Saim Hann. Beil-Tan, Ulthwe and Iyanden give +1 Ld to Aspect Warriors, Guardians and Wraithguard respectively.

These abilities are token in themselves - so are almost certainly not worth building lists around. But they could "represent the fluff" for people who really care about that.

At the opposite extreme you have big powers to open up alternative builds. So say Wraithguard are pretty "meh" on their own - but maybe they become competitive with Iyanden's buff. Same for Jet bikes, aspect warriors etc and their respective craftworld. This would allow GW to create more "mini" armies and potentially encourage players to expand their collections. Warmahordes 2.0 had problems - but the idea that certain commanders elevated certain units towards a competitive tier wasn't a terrible one (imo anyway, I think the game keeled over due to bloat). Chapter tactics could have done that in 40k.

As it stands however we just have abilities with massive deviations in power (some of which are clearly phoned in) and so its a relatively simple process of identifying which ones are competitive and which ones are garbage. There is an attempt to complicate this, and encourage inter-faction souping, by throwing in warlord traits, relics and stratagems, but by and large its still obvious.

Also we are probably 24 hours from someone reading out the points in CA over a youtube video and yet there are still no leaks. Congrats to operation potato camera, but my frustration is infinite.

I think that about sums it up. Well said.

Agreed.

-

No point drop for CSM, am disappointed.

Gryphonne wrote:
Leaks here:

(get ready to be disappointed on some fronts )

https://imgur.com/gallery/PVf1Vsr

Holy hellfires, nice points drops for BA characters and gear.

Stalker rifles are 0 points now for intercessors good good.

Plasma guns for CSM 13 points -> 11 points.

Combi Plasma is same price.

 Sir Heckington wrote:
Plasma guns for CSM 13 points -> 11 points.

And Dark angels. Melta down to 14 too. Imagine the possibilities if Scions/Guard follow...

 Trickstick wrote:

 Sir Heckington wrote:
Plasma guns for CSM 13 points -> 11 points.

And Dark angels. Melta down to 14 too. Imagine the possibilities if Scions/Guard follow...

This just in, Warp Talons are base cheaper than normal marines.

Probably because they have no boltgun though.

If we assume that the weapon costs are mostly changes across factions, I am seeing a lot of lower cost weapons. Flamers, autocannons, heavy stubbers, etc.

Holy Crap, Look at those Land Raider prices!!!! 200 points!??!
Niiiiice

That...has to be before we put guns on it...right? Or am I dreaming?

Dark angels powerfists are down reflective of the leaked terminator drop. I wonder if the base cost of termies will stay the same.

"So for Eldar it could be Alaitoc=+1 save for Rangers (and just rangers)."
I think that's the crux of so much of the disagreement.

If Alaitoc's rule is "+1 save for non-Fly units that don't move at all", that's just dumb and I hate it and I hate you for suggesting it. It's not fluffy, and doesn't fit CWE in general or Alaitoc specifically.

If Alaitoc's rule is "+1 save for Rangers", I'm totally on board.

Note that the second is only better when Rangers move, which they rarely ever do. So the second is basically a straight downgrade from the first. But the second is good and the first is bad.

 Elhazard wrote:
Dark angels powerfists are down reflective of the leaked terminator drop. I wonder if the base cost of termies will stay the same.

Pretty sure they are 23ppm base. Add a 9ppm PF and 2pp Storm bolter and we've got 34ppm Termies

-

 iGuy91 wrote:
Holy Crap, Look at those Land Raider prices!!!! 200 points!??!
Niiiiice

That...has to be before we put guns on it...right? Or am I dreaming?

Still around 300 with weapons which is too much.

 Elhazard wrote:
Dark angels powerfists are down reflective of the leaked terminator drop. I wonder if the base cost of termies will stay the same.

Bell of Lost Souls was reporting Termies down to 23 base.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2018/12/40k-rumors-chapter-approved-2018-unit-point-changes.html

The Age of Spawn is at hand - 25 points!

Defiler down another 20.
Forgefiend down 19 - the AC down 5 and plasma down 6.
Heldrake down 18.
Mutilators down 7.
Helbrutes are 60, which is decent.

Confirmation of Rubrics at 16, which is awesome. Soulreaper and warpflamer both at 10. Inferno pistol at 0. Bolter is the same.

Oh snap Autocannons are 10 points now...

Rocmistro wrote:

 Elhazard wrote:
Dark angels powerfists are down reflective of the leaked terminator drop. I wonder if the base cost of termies will stay the same.

Bell of Lost Souls was reporting Termies down to 23 base.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2018/12/40k-rumors-chapter-approved-2018-unit-point-changes.html

28 for CSM

Rocmistro wrote:

 Elhazard wrote:
Dark angels powerfists are down reflective of the leaked terminator drop. I wonder if the base cost of termies will stay the same.

Bell of Lost Souls was reporting Termies down to 23 base.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2018/12/40k-rumors-chapter-approved-2018-unit-point-changes.html

Chaos termies are 28, so...not likely.

Wait, plasma guns go cheaper, and melta guns are *still* more expensive? Wtf.

 Galef wrote:

 Elhazard wrote:
Dark angels powerfists are down reflective of the leaked terminator drop. I wonder if the base cost of termies will stay the same.

Pretty sure they are 23ppm base. Add a 9ppm PF and 2pp Storm bolter and we've got 34ppm Termies

-

So, that is a substantial drop. Regular DW with PF's are 40ppm. Though, it doesn't help us from dying to plasma but it's still something...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Rocmistro wrote:

 Elhazard wrote:
Dark angels powerfists are down reflective of the leaked terminator drop. I wonder if the base cost of termies will stay the same.

Bell of Lost Souls was reporting Termies down to 23 base.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2018/12/40k-rumors-chapter-approved-2018-unit-point-changes.html

Chaos termies are 28, so...not likely.

Didn't notice that, thanks

But a lot of the more-believed rumors don't seem to jive with this?

For instance, no change to any non-FW-related CWE units? Everything under Asuryani are options on FW or Corsair choices. But nothing on the base price of a Wraithknight. No change to Shining Spears.

There's also no entry under Aeldari or Craftworlds, from what I'm seeing.

Considering GW has posted that there are changes that *arent* in the leaks, we must be missing something?

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Rocmistro wrote:

 Elhazard wrote:
Dark angels powerfists are down reflective of the leaked terminator drop. I wonder if the base cost of termies will stay the same.

Bell of Lost Souls was reporting Termies down to 23 base.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2018/12/40k-rumors-chapter-approved-2018-unit-point-changes.html

Chaos termies are 28, so...not likely.

Well according to this:

Gryphonne wrote:
Leaks guys! For those who missed it:

https://imgur.com/gallery/PVf1Vsr

DW terminators are 23 base. So maybe BolS is reporting the Chaos Termie price AFTER you add their axe and combi-bolter
Nvm, that link shows Chaos Termies base at 28ppm before axe and combi-bolter. That's super lame. But arguably, they can take cheaper melee weapons, Marks and combi-weapons, so maybe not so bad

-

Perhaps all the CWE changes are on Datasheets, which it says are elsewhere in the book?

I notice that BA Missile Launchers, Multimeltas, and twin-linked Lascannons got cheaper, but Lascannons don't seem to have an entry. I think I'm ok with that. Nice point reduction on the Plasma Cannon too.

Deathwatch Termies confirmed at 23 points, Power Fist at 9, no change on Storm Bolters. That means probably 34 point terminators, that's a nice reduction there.

Bharring wrote:
But a lot of the more-believed rumors don't seem to jive with this?

For instance, no change to any non-FW-related CWE units? Everything under Asuryani are options on FW or Corsair choices. But nothing on the base price of a Wraithknight. No change to Shining Spears.

There's also no entry under Aeldari or Craftworlds, from what I'm seeing.

Considering GW has posted that there are changes that *arent* in the leaks, we must be missing something?

It's at the end of a page - we're missing pages and WK would come after those listings. So it's still possible.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Bharring wrote:
But a lot of the more-believed rumors don't seem to jive with this?

For instance, no change to any non-FW-related CWE units? Everything under Asuryani are options on FW or Corsair choices. But nothing on the base price of a Wraithknight. No change to Shining Spears.

There's also no entry under Aeldari or Craftworlds, from what I'm seeing.

Considering GW has posted that there are changes that *arent* in the leaks, we must be missing something?

It's at the end of a page - we're missing pages and WK would come after those listings. So it's still possible.

It looks like some FW parts are separate from their non-FW counterparts (the missing WK points for instance but things like Hornets and Wasps are there).

Nice point reductions, but nothing game breaking.

I was reading the latest White Dwarf and there was an article about Cities of Death, where they talked about changes to terrain rules.

Basically soft cover (crates, wooden fences, stuff you'd have lying around) gives +1 to armour, while hard cover (ruins, buildings...) gives +2. This can be countered by being higher up, as a height advantage of at least 3" gives your guys -1 AP extra and there is a stratagem to increase it to -2. Most interestingly, there is a general obscured penalty to hit: if your target is over 50% out of sight, the firer gets -1 to hit. Also ~20 new stratagems for urban fighting, like sewers for deep striking and point blank overwatch even when the enemy starts the charge out of sight.

Yeah, I missed the fourth page somehow. I see it now.