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A.T. wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I disagree, the start allows you to deep strike in and immediatly open fire, hitting at a range of 12 with flamers, that's not too bad

It gives you a deepstrike attack of ~21 S4 hits and ~8 S3 hits.

My local opponents field a fair amount of deathguard, knights, mech DE, etc - I guess i'm not sure what i'd aim it, or whether it's worth losing the inferno pistols for.

Maybe but that's just your local meta. I can see how this would be VERY useful in a meta where you wanted a fast strike chaff clearer

BrianDavion wrote:

A.T. wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I disagree, the start allows you to deep strike in and immediatly open fire, hitting at a range of 12 with flamers, that's not too bad

It gives you a deepstrike attack of ~21 S4 hits and ~8 S3 hits.

My local opponents field a fair amount of deathguard, knights, mech DE, etc - I guess i'm not sure what i'd aim it, or whether it's worth losing the inferno pistols for.

Maybe but that's just your local meta. I can see how this would be VERY useful in a meta where you wanted a fast strike chaff clearer

Do keep in mind when discussing this strategem that these are HAND flamers not flamers, which means S3 D3 NOT S4 D6. All told a fully maxed out unit of seraphim will kill maybe 4-5 marines total between the two shooting attacks. Anything S5 or higher will be basically immune. Also, you can't really do it more than 2 times per game. Once on T2 once on T3 with a different unit.

It's good, but don't start buying up ebay lots yet.

BrianDavion wrote:
Maybe but that's just your local meta. I can see how this would be VERY useful in a meta where you wanted a fast strike chaff clearer

Roughly 9 cultists in cover I think.

Those hand flamers wont be in range for your shooting phase though, so you get one tap with 4 S3 D3 flamers. Hard to clear much chaff with that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr Morden wrote:

A.T. wrote:
Strength and attacks make a big difference for eviscerator wielders - especially if the canoness gets a jump-pack back.

Maybe Celestians as well if they give them wargear options..

Loyalist or not? She looks great - could be new Repentia?

Is that an Eye of Horus on her shoulder?

Yeah, I think that Strategem is going to go over about as well as passing gas in an elevator. Just not useful with how bad hand flamers are right now. If it was Inferno pistols as well, then you might be talking.
The Bloody Rose trait ... Will really depend on if there are any units that will actually want to use it. As is, BSS, Dom's, Rets, (which is most of the units that are ever taken in the index incarnation) won't need it. Seraphim, maybe. Repentia, sure, if they are affordable and can get into combat. Probably not the Order best suited to my style of play, but it could have potential depending on what the rest of the codex looks like.

ERJAK wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

A.T. wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I disagree, the start allows you to deep strike in and immediatly open fire, hitting at a range of 12 with flamers, that's not too bad

It gives you a deepstrike attack of ~21 S4 hits and ~8 S3 hits.

My local opponents field a fair amount of deathguard, knights, mech DE, etc - I guess i'm not sure what i'd aim it, or whether it's worth losing the inferno pistols for.

Maybe but that's just your local meta. I can see how this would be VERY useful in a meta where you wanted a fast strike chaff clearer

Do keep in mind when discussing this strategem that these are HAND flamers not flamers, which means S3 D3 NOT S4 D6. All told a fully maxed out unit of seraphim will kill maybe 4-5 marines total between the two shooting attacks. Anything S5 or higher will be basically immune. Also, you can't really do it more than 2 times per game. Once on T2 once on T3 with a different unit.

It's good, but don't start buying up ebay lots yet.

ohh I agree, I'm not saying it's gonna be one of those broken strats that get spammed at a tourny level, or one you build an army around but it'll definatly have a valid use in the right situations, which TBH is what a start SHOULD be

 Creeping Dementia wrote:
Yeah, I think that Strategem is going to go over about as well as passing gas in an elevator. Just not useful with how bad hand flamers are right now. If it was Inferno pistols as well, then you might be talking.
The Bloody Rose trait ... Will really depend on if there are any units that will actually want to use it. As is, BSS, Dom's, Rets, (which is most of the units that are ever taken in the index incarnation) won't need it. Seraphim, maybe. Repentia, sure, if they are affordable and can get into combat. Probably not the Order best suited to my style of play, but it could have potential depending on what the rest of the codex looks like.

Its handy for when you are charged as well as charging as its +1 strength and +1 Attacks, plus the Relic or Eviscerator Sword Cannoness.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Creeping Dementia wrote:
Yeah, I think that Strategem is going to go over about as well as passing gas in an elevator. Just not useful with how bad hand flamers are right now. If it was Inferno pistols as well, then you might be talking.
The Bloody Rose trait ... Will really depend on if there are any units that will actually want to use it. As is, BSS, Dom's, Rets, (which is most of the units that are ever taken in the index incarnation) won't need it. Seraphim, maybe. Repentia, sure, if they are affordable and can get into combat. Probably not the Order best suited to my style of play, but it could have potential depending on what the rest of the codex looks like.

Its handy for when you are charged as well as charging as its +1 strength and +1 Attacks, plus the Relic or Eviscerator Sword Cannoness.

That's what's good about this CT, it actually functional. Most codexes have either useless or extremely underwhelming CTs alongside clearly superior ones. This CT is actually incredibly powerful, but Sisters have to jump through a lot of hoops to get usage out of it. It rewards building your list with deliberate intent to take advantage of it, rather than just making your best stuff insane, ala alaitoc.

Alternatively, it rewards you for painting your Repentia a different color than the rest of your army, but the intention of the rule is good.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Alternatively, it rewards you for painting your Repentia a different color than the rest of your army, but the intention of the rule is good.

The Valorous Heart Penitent rule will be interesting to see. It would be nuts if Bloody Rose Repentia come out better than Valorous Heart Repentia.

 dracpanzer wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Alternatively, it rewards you for painting your Repentia a different color than the rest of your army, but the intention of the rule is good.

The Valorous Heart Penitent rule will be interesting to see. It would be nuts if Bloody Rose Repentia come out better than Valorous Heart Repentia.

I'd probably expect a fnp like rule for OotVH...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or some kind of movement bonus... (If Argent Shroud get the fnp...

Lammia wrote:

 dracpanzer wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Alternatively, it rewards you for painting your Repentia a different color than the rest of your army, but the intention of the rule is good.

The Valorous Heart Penitent rule will be interesting to see. It would be nuts if Bloody Rose Repentia come out better than Valorous Heart Repentia.

I'd probably expect a fnp like rule for OotVH...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or some kind of movement bonus... (If Argent Shroud get the fnp...

I kind of hope Repentia in general get a movement bonus, assault after advancing or some such. If that Blackstone Fortress model with the evisci-flamer is any indication of where they are going with new models (don't dare to hope) Repentia could be getting a wall of death upgrade when the Codex drops.

Hopefully all the Convents get decent traits. It's unfortunate in the other codexes when one group gets a great trait and the others are kind of Meh. Like DE Coven, Harlequins, etc.

Hopefully they do more to improve little used options than random Strategems. Flamers have had issues mainly due to 8th edition rules, I'd really like to see Sisters get something that makes them a reasonable choice again.

Very exciting to start seeing some rules, hopefully we start seeing more models soon.

Any guesses on how long the actual Beta period will last? Most seem to think the actual Codex and models will be released next fall. If the codex has to be to the printers 3-4 months before release, then I guess we'll be playing with the Beta for roughly 6 months before changes are 'finalized' for the printer?

Am I the only one who's starting to get a little nervous about what GW is about to publish? Sisters didn't have new lore since, well almost 15 years, with the publication of the Witch Hunter Codex (the sixth eddition virtual only codex didn't bring any new information about the faction), Sisters are rarely used in fiction and its most often as sandbags to show off the villain threat level. With a new codex of a volme comparable to that other factions, we will inevitably get new lore for both the Sisterhood and the Ecclesiarchy itself too. With a new line of models comming too, they have a golden opportunity to throw the faction in different direction or turn any single of their defining characteristics up to 11 (it's 40K afterall) sometime at the detriment of others. We might get something substancially different then what we used to have.

I'm not worried about radially different Sisters Lore. The Sisters and the Ecclesiarchy are used extensively in lore, even when not the center stage. They can't be changed radically without messing with everyone else's stories.

Really liking our first look at Convictions and stratagems. Just the ability to utilize the Hand Flamers when deep striking is nice (wish it extended to the Inferno Pistols also), making using that ability no longer a total detriment to the unit.

Imagine the fun to be had pairing a Ministorum Priest with your Bloodly Rose Sisters? Reroll attacks with +1 Strength and +2 Attack? Actual close combat sisters!

I care not to conjecture until we see Chapter Approved 2018 to see what direction GW is taking the Sisters of Battle. The expectation is that whatever is in CA:2018 will be very, very close to whats in the actual SoB codex.

What do I want to see? The prayer system back in place. A more self reliant army list that doesn't force me to take non-Sisters of Battle models. The Ministratum Priest comes to mind, and that one special character priest that was like an auto include. Soup is here to stay. I just don't want to see soup in a base Sisters of Battle codex, and then add even more soup later. I do not want to see a S3 T3 6+ model with an Eviserator that costs more than a Space Marine. I'd also like to see an actual battle tank for them that does not fire d6 krak missiles as the only source outside of squad multi-melta's for anti-tank. What would be really awesome is if they get the Deathwatch Infernous Pattern Heavy Bolter/Flamer. That would bring a smile to my face for sure.

As for the models? OK, here I am conjecturing. GW makes some of the best wargaming models. I have no concerns about what the models will look like because they will look great. This is the one thing GW does very, very well.

Acts of Faith are just about perfect. I'd like to see a better way to get more than just (terrible) imagifiers but other than that the system is excellent. It's what Ynnari SHOULD have been.

I want Celestine to stay mostly how she is except able to get AT LEAST Our Martyred Lady convictions(I'd prefer just straight up <Order> but choosing beggars and all that) and a warlord trait. The game has power creeped enough that she's not really OP anymore ESPECIALLY in ITC.

Fix the Exorcist(3 damage with roll two take the highest if they don't move would be fantastic), make repentia and penitent engines useful(The conviction is EXCELLENT for this, but, they need to be significantly cheaper; They only work when En mass), jumppack Canonesses, make melta guns cheaper, make flamers WAY cheaper, and for GOD'S SAKE figure out SOMETHING for the freakin celestians to do. If you want them melee make them good at melee.

I don't think the Seraphim strategem is any good.

It's basically 14 bolt pistol shots and not being an available target on turn 1 in exchange for not getting 4 inferno pistol shots and a charge.


Order of the Bloody Rose's trait on the other hand isn't terrible. Dominions and AoF Seraphim will generally be in charge range on Turn 1, and if they group up and pile in together, they'll be able to gank small units and rip up chaff units. And we have a lot of units that, despite their poor melee still, will be in close combat, so buffing that isn't really objectionable. It's not awesome, though.

epronovost wrote:
Am I the only one who's starting to get a little nervous about what GW is about to publish? Sisters didn't have new lore since, well almost 15 years, with the publication of the Witch Hunter Codex (the sixth eddition virtual only codex didn't bring any new information about the faction), Sisters are rarely used in fiction and its most often as sandbags to show off the villain threat level. With a new codex of a volme comparable to that other factions, we will inevitably get new lore for both the Sisterhood and the Ecclesiarchy itself too. With a new line of models comming too, they have a golden opportunity to throw the faction in different direction or turn any single of their defining characteristics up to 11 (it's 40K afterall) sometime at the detriment of others. We might get something substancially different then what we used to have.

Not really that concerned. The only advancement in lore we have had in the last decade has been from other factions point of view, which means they have been expendible sacrifices, massacre footnotes. Celestine being the exception. Will be nice to have the Sisters front and center and portrayed as the bada$$es they are.

epronovost wrote:
Am I the only one who's starting to get a little nervous about what GW is about to publish? Sisters didn't have new lore since, well almost 15 years, with the publication of the Witch Hunter Codex (the sixth eddition virtual only codex didn't bring any new information about the faction), Sisters are rarely used in fiction and its most often as sandbags to show off the villain threat level. With a new codex of a volme comparable to that other factions, we will inevitably get new lore for both the Sisterhood and the Ecclesiarchy itself too. With a new line of models comming too, they have a golden opportunity to throw the faction in different direction or turn any single of their defining characteristics up to 11 (it's 40K afterall) sometime at the detriment of others. We might get something substancially different then what we used to have.

Actually considering their treatment by the rules team they are surprisingly common in the fiction and background - eg one of the ten novellas that is coming out is a Sisters book, Shield of Baal had a vast amount of wonderful info and images and even characters as well as hints of things like Drop Catherdals - they kicked serious ass in that camapign and didn't die. Same in Gathering Storm etc.

 dracpanzer wrote:


Is that an Eye of Horus on her shoulder?

Looks like half an Aquilla to me

I bet the sisters are the ones saving Vigilus. Would fit perfectly with the timing.

I would like to see a complete 'plastification' of their line with the addition of several new units. I really like the aesthetic they have, so I hope there aren't any significant changes there. I know I might be hoping for a bit too much, and I totally understand if GW splits the release over 2019. I just think it would be a shame if they didn't seize the chance to retire the old resin models.

 Hollow wrote:
I would like to see a complete 'plastification' of their line with the addition of several new units. I really like the aesthetic they have, so I hope there aren't any significant changes there. I know I might be hoping for a bit too much, and I totally understand if GW splits the release over 2019. I just think it would be a shame if they didn't seize the chance to retire the old resin models.

Sisters don't have any resin models. They're all metal. The line is so old it predates GW's resin cast.

Fun fact, a release equivalent to what deathguard got (one centerpiece, 6 characters, 4 infantry kits and 3 vehicle kits) would be enough to redo everything and then add enough new units with dual kits to double the size of the army .

ERJAK wrote:

 Hollow wrote:
I would like to see a complete 'plastification' of their line with the addition of several new units. I really like the aesthetic they have, so I hope there aren't any significant changes there. I know I might be hoping for a bit too much, and I totally understand if GW splits the release over 2019. I just think it would be a shame if they didn't seize the chance to retire the old resin models.

Sisters don't have any resin models. They're all metal. The line is so old it predates GW's resin cast.

Fun fact, a release equivalent to what deathguard got (one centerpiece, 6 characters, 4 infantry kits and 3 vehicle kits) would be enough to redo everything and then add enough new units with dual kits to double the size of the army .

Veridyan is resin, isn't she? Though I doubt she'll get redone, given her sculpt is the translation of cover art from the original SoB 'dex.

She was made more as a novelty item rather than an actual addition to the range. She was designed before GW got the results of that survey where everyone pleaded for plastic sisters.

Be great to get a character for each major Order

and there is plenty of nice art that they have produced over the last few years. I assumed that they chose the Bloodied Rose becuase of the new book?

spoiler for size - nice pic

ERJAK wrote:
make repentia and penitent engines useful

Mobility is one of their current problems. The penitent engine is slower than even the stubby-legged marine dreadnoughts while the repentia outpace their support characters if they use faith (and consequently lose half of their attack power).

The latter is a general flaw in the current faith system and quite possibly why celestine has her +1 faith bonus to keep up with her bodyguard. IMO activating faith (if the system remains as is) should extend from a squad to any nearby characters, with the usual 1/phase limit.

Curious to see what happens with Celestine.
If she doesnt get an order keyword, thats going to kill the Convictions. If she gets OoOML keyword, shed only see use in OoOML detachments. Not everyone used that order and for some people would almost invalidate her because of that. I know this would definately be the case for myself.

Am really hoping that if not in CA, then in the full dex, we have an option for a generic living saint or other suitable option to let that model be useful/useable for the non martyred lady players.

 Giantwalkingchair wrote:
Curious to see what happens with Celestine.
If she doesnt get an order keyword, thats going to kill the Convictions. If she gets OoOML keyword, shed only see use in OoOML detachments. Not everyone used that order and for some people would almost invalidate her because of that. I know this would definately be the case for myself.

Am really hoping that if not in CA, then in the full dex, we have an option for a generic living saint or other suitable option to let that model be useful/useable for the non martyred lady players.

I think most of the named characters so far were locked to their subfaction when they got a dex? Might be wrong.