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 deviantduck wrote:
One of these days someone is going to actually add Sisters of Battle to a poll. I'm pretty sure the army is overlooked 99.9% of the time.

GW overlooked them for almost 20 years, so it's easy to do.

Reanimation_Protocol wrote:
There are, it seems 3 people who play against Necrons I need to seek out their opponents and throw myself down before them and beg them to take me on as student.

or alternatively, the Deceiver is having a cosmic laugh at my expense

Necrons are actually incredibly oppressive and difficult to defeat... if you're a bad player. Someone who doesn't use their offense efficiently to deny RP will find them quite frustrating to play against and eventually lose to attrition. Usually these sorts of discussions are made to assume that both players are good at the game, though.

 Xenomancers wrote:


I really can't take anyone seriously that calls CWE underpowered.

Well, please understand that if CWE are underpowered,
(1) CWE plyers have greater skill than average because they play (and get victories) with an underpowered codex
(2) CWE deserve buffs in future FAQs and Chapter Approved editions, which will benefit CWE players
(3) People should not refuse games with CWE players or complain that they only won because of an overpowered codex, because it is underpowered.

so it is definitely a truth that would give CWE players an advantage, so it is perfectly normal for them to believe this truth and try and convince others of it.

Mark.

Thousand Sons is way too low. Tied with Tyranids, DGand below Orks? Dakka behind as always.

 SHUPPET wrote:
Thousand Sons is way too low. Tied with Tyranids, DGand below Orks? Dakka behind as always.

That's always been the problem with this kind of polls. Do you rate the Codex as a whole, or just the few competitive units it has ? Thousand Sons are very strong as a part of Soup (Ahriman, broken Daemon Princes, etc...) but these units don't make the army great by themselves. 80% of the codex is trash or mid-tier.

Knights is not a top dex without Guard and it's the same people voting, so either they are including soup and they wrong about Thousand Sons, or they not including it and they wrong about Knights. Either way, Dakka is behind again.

 SHUPPET wrote:
Knights is not a top dex without Guard and it's the same people voting, so either they are including soup and they wrong about Thousand Sons, or they not including it and they wrong about Knights. Either way, Dakka is behind again.

]It is because it's cool to hate knights, all the cool kids say Knights are OP therfor they are.
The cool kids arn't complaining about thousand sons therfor to the masses they are balanced/weak

The strongest 3 pure codexes (no allies) in my opinion would be (in no particular order):

Dark Eldar, Eldar and Imperial Guard.

If take into account soup... you prob can't poll it. However, any of those 3 in a soup (for the factions that can take them) it will always make the army better, so has to be top (whether add command points/damage/strats/efficiency/ etc).

I think DeathGuard as a mono build are quite strong.

Ice_can wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Knights is not a top dex without Guard and it's the same people voting, so either they are including soup and they wrong about Thousand Sons, or they not including it and they wrong about Knights. Either way, Dakka is behind again.

]It is because it's cool to hate knights, all the cool kids say Knights are OP therfor they are.
The cool kids arn't complaining about thousand sons therfor to the masses they are balanced/weak

thats more or less what I'm saying

This poll is just highlightihighlighting the reactionary nature of Dakka

At 1750 or 2k points pure Knights are average, objectives is always their folly. No way they are a Top codex. In soup yes, Solo...

My votes are for Astra Militarum, Drukhari, and Imperial Knights in that order.

 Ratius wrote:
I think DeathGuard as a mono build are quite strong.

Death Guard with a mono build are strong, but they're at their strongest when they bring Chaos Knights into play and combine it with their crazy stratagems.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Ratius wrote:
I think DeathGuard as a mono build are quite strong.

Death Guard with a mono build are strong, but they're at their strongest when they bring Chaos Knights into play and combine it with their crazy stratagems.

That's Imperial Knights generally speaking for any faction that can take them.

DG as a mono build are solid mid-field with some combos, that when they work - they pay off really well. Definitely not top tier, but better than other books for sure.

DG at the moment, competitively speaking, are relegated to Nurgle Soup rather than a pure DG list.

Not Orks lmao

fe40k wrote:
Not Orks lmao

Not enough time for anyone to have proper experience with the new book.

 SHUPPET wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Knights is not a top dex without Guard and it's the same people voting, so either they are including soup and they wrong about Thousand Sons, or they not including it and they wrong about Knights. Either way, Dakka is behind again.

]It is because it's cool to hate knights, all the cool kids say Knights are OP therfor they are.
The cool kids arn't complaining about thousand sons therfor to the masses they are balanced/weak

thats more or less what I'm saying

This poll is just highlightihighlighting the reactionary nature of Dakka

So I presume you are saying TSon is strongest? How many tournaments they have dominated then? I presume you have some evidence to back off the claim then?

 SHUPPET wrote:
Knights is not a top dex without Guard and it's the same people voting, so either they are including soup and they wrong about Thousand Sons, or they not including it and they wrong about Knights. Either way, Dakka is behind again.

I guess its the difference between strong and competitive.
Knights are a skew. They are not a top dex because they make the meta go "Thy shalt spend a significant chunk of your points on units to kill Knights."
If you do that they are not competitive - in fact they can be quite weak.

But if you don't do that you can have incredibly one-sided (or at least "run round the table grabbing objectives, hope to die slowly"-sided) games which are not fun.

tneva82 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Knights is not a top dex without Guard and it's the same people voting, so either they are including soup and they wrong about Thousand Sons, or they not including it and they wrong about Knights. Either way, Dakka is behind again.

]It is because it's cool to hate knights, all the cool kids say Knights are OP therfor they are.
The cool kids arn't complaining about thousand sons therfor to the masses they are balanced/weak

thats more or less what I'm saying

This poll is just highlightihighlighting the reactionary nature of Dakka

So I presume you are saying TSon is strongest? How many tournaments they have dominated then? I presume you have some evidence to back off the claim then?

Thats kind of irrelevant, the threads about mono codecies but tournements are dominated by soup.

That said, TSons really aren't amongst the strongest codecies, my Drukhari can take them apart pretty easily, and thats against a player who is without doubt better than me (and running 27 Tzaangor Enlightened with all the buffs and backed up by Contemptors and Leviathans).

tneva82 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Knights is not a top dex without Guard and it's the same people voting, so either they are including soup and they wrong about Thousand Sons, or they not including it and they wrong about Knights. Either way, Dakka is behind again.

]It is because it's cool to hate knights, all the cool kids say Knights are OP therfor they are.
The cool kids arn't complaining about thousand sons therfor to the masses they are balanced/weak

thats more or less what I'm saying

This poll is just highlightihighlighting the reactionary nature of Dakka

So I presume you are saying TSon is strongest? How many tournaments they have dominated then? I presume you have some evidence to back off the claim then?

Lmao where did I say the were the strongest? That's your words and not my claim and I don't have to support your hyperbole at all. However, they are ONE of the best dexes in the game, and yes the tournament results absolutely support that.

I know that some people grumble how 1ksons are a codex of 3 good units, and how bad that is. So maybe it is that. I mean we just saw eldar players saying their book is underpowered, because they only have 10 very powerful units.

I would metaphorically kill for 1 good unit type.

Karol wrote:
I know that some people grumble how 1ksons are a codex of 3 good units, and how bad that is. So maybe it is that. I mean we just saw eldar players saying their book is underpowered, because they only have 10 very powerful units.

I would metaphorically kill for 1 good unit type.

Most codexes are that way.

Custodes? Codex Bikers.

Imperial Knights? Codex Gallants and Castellans, with sometimes Helverins.

Nobody is running around complaining about Custodes Terminators or Imperial Knight Paladins.

It's always just 1-2 things that are so much better it isn't funny.

Karol wrote:
I know that some people grumble how 1ksons are a codex of 3 good units, and how bad that is. So maybe it is that. I mean we just saw eldar players saying their book is underpowered, because they only have 10 very powerful units.

I would metaphorically kill for 1 good unit type.

Most people have never heard of a mutalith vortex beast. Or even know what it does - but it is a great unit and it synergies with all your good choices.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Cephalobeard wrote:

Karol wrote:
I know that some people grumble how 1ksons are a codex of 3 good units, and how bad that is. So maybe it is that. I mean we just saw eldar players saying their book is underpowered, because they only have 10 very powerful units.

I would metaphorically kill for 1 good unit type.

Most codexes are that way.

Custodes? Codex Bikers.

Imperial Knights? Codex Gallants and Castellans, with sometimes Helverins.

Nobody is running around complaining about Custodes Terminators or Imperial Knight Paladins.

It's always just 1-2 things that are so much better it isn't funny.

Crusaders and warglaives are also excellent.

It's true though - you don't judge an army based on how many good choices they have but whether or not they can build an army with nothing but good choices.
Knights can do it - thousand sons can do it.
Armies that can't do it suck.

Ahriman, Daemon Prince, Sorcerors, Exalteds, Enlightened, Cultists, Tzaangors, Magnus


And that's just the stuff good enough that it often makes the list on top table Chaos soup. As Xenos said, units like Mutalith & Shaman are also playable, infact I've seen the Shaman do well at tournament before too.

What they mean when they say "3 playable units" is "waaaa my Rubrics are still overpriced". And even they are in the best shape theyvtheyve ever been in, and mostly just suffer from being PA in 8th, and are still semi usable to thicken out a battalion for cheap Smites.

I'm loving TSons and they are kinda downplayed on here.

 SHUPPET wrote:
...infact I've seen the Shaman do well at tournament before too.

Ran into a player unfamiliar with them (and unlucky with dispels) and let a full enlightened squad get buffed in charge range of Mortarion.
I rolled poorly and Morty walked away with a couple of wounds left. Have to say I was torn between using the double attack stratagem to finish him off or the escort princes who were getting mauled by a warptiming tzaangor blob.

8e Tsons have always struck me as the kind of codex that takes soup for extra firepower (like DE taking farseers) rather than as a crutch.

A.T. wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
...infact I've seen the Shaman do well at tournament before too.

Ran into a player unfamiliar with them (and unlucky with dispels) and let a full enlightened squad get buffed in charge range of Mortarion.
I rolled poorly and Morty walked away with a couple of wounds left. Have to say I was torn between using the double attack stratagem to finish him off or the escort princes who were getting mauled by a warptiming tzaangor blob.

8e Tsons have always struck me as the kind of codex that takes soup for extra firepower (like DE taking farseers) rather than as a crutch.

I would say the biggest issue with Tsons codex is it's best build have 0 Tsons it's codex AoS models but it does have some power in it just not in Tsons units.

That's not an uncommon complaint:
-CSM complain that, often, they're better off with Cultists than Heretic Marines
-Marines often are better off with more Scouts and other things than Marines
-Lists with CWE often have more Outcasts than Craftworlders

There used to be someone on this board who created a poll every couple weeks asking what is the strongest, what is the best, etc. It was really just to get people to argue.

Hoping that's not going to become a trend again.

I don't think there's a point to be made here, everyone understands the relative strength of each Codex already. Any nuanced points about how certain match ups favor certain armies is not really a measure of strength.

These threads would do fine if everyone wasn't so heavily biased.