What part of the Lore do you dislike?

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**queen_annes_revenge**

RobS wrote:
queen_annes_revenge wrote:
RobS wrote:
queen_annes_revenge wrote:
there have been some decent books though. I enjoyed the first heretic, and betrayer. I'll probably check out the novels featuring blood angel, dark angels/fallen, and death guard too.

Have you read Kharn; The Red Path and if so what did you think of it compared to other BL books?

I havent. I've read the free short story which I believe is the start of it, 'Furnaces of Haeleon' which was ok, but didnt give away much. I want to read it but I'm torn as to whether to pick up that or read Eater of Worlds, which has better reviews online, first. I loved Kharns portrayal in betrayer, and hope he isn't ruined in the new books. I've got a lot to get through though. my mrs has got me Lords of Silence for christmas, and I wouldnt mind reading the word bearers trilogy.

Without giving away too much, I'd go for Eater of Worlds.

There isn't much in The Red Path apart from a lot of Kharn hacking people apart. I know that's kind of his thing but you can have too much of a good thing and the way it's written didn't really do much to convince me of how scarily effective in combat Kharn is. To be honest, in a lot of the combat scenes (so that's a lot of the book) I couldn't imagine from the descriptions what was actually going on.

I've liked the bits of writing I've seen from ADB (that 'maybe, maybe' post he wrote for Bolter and Chainsword is just a perfect imagining of the life of a Chaos Space Marine) so I have high hopes for Betrayer, however.

That's what I was thinking to be fair. Betrayer is a fantastic read. Thoroughly recommend. Tells a lot about the state of the world eaters, and their reluctant leader. Pre berserker kharn has a lot of depth to his character, that's why I'm hoping post heresy kharn isn't just a mindless lunatic.

**Delvarus Centurion**

RobS wrote:
queen_annes_revenge wrote:
there have been some decent books though. I enjoyed the first heretic, and betrayer. I'll probably check out the novels featuring blood angel, dark angels/fallen, and death guard too.

Have you read Kharn; The Red Path and if so what did you think of it compared to other BL books?

The red path was an incredible novel, describes Kharn so well.

**Andersp90**

Insectum7 wrote:
In 4th edition you actually could field Apothecaries as Sergeants to squads.

I tend to think in other circumstances marines have some basic medical training and equipment to help deal with wounds.

I think that is one of the points about the whole metahuman thing. Their bodies are designed to take care of any problems (with some help from their armor) without help. Fx the larramans Organ etc.

Also, if a squad is send behind enemy lines on a special mission (pretty much every sm mission ever

), and a battle-brother gets so badly injured, that he he requires an apo.. well, hes prob ****** anyway.

epronovost wrote:
Andersp90 wrote:
It kind of bothers me that they are not in decline. As it stand now, they chose the dark route without consequence.

- ignoring khaine's gate, ofc.

That bothers me a lot too. There used to be this quote in the 3rd eddition DE Codex: ''I dance in blood toward the precipice of annihilation.''. I thought it represented perfectly their culture and their knowledge that ultimately, they will all die, that they can't delay the inevitable.

Ye, it seems pretty stupid.

But I guess khaines gate breaking fixed it somewhat - just not the way I would have liked.

**pm713**

The gate breaking seems a poor consequence as it would have happened no matter what the DE did as I understand it.

**Andersp90**

pm713 wrote:
The gate breaking seems a poor consequence as it would have happened no matter what the DE did as I understand it.

I can only agree.

**w1zard**

Insectum7 wrote:
In 4th edition you actually could field Apothecaries as Sergeants to squads.

I tend to think in other circumstances marines have some basic medical training and equipment to help deal with wounds.

I believe that this is stated in the lore. I have read multiple times about non-apothecary marines retrieving geneseed. Every modern day soldier is given basic first aid as part of training, it makes sense that 40k marines would be too.

**Wyzilla**

Also the apothecarion is much larger than most people think because about half of it isn't counted as there are both company-assigned apothecaries and the apothecarion marine staff itself, which are different things.

**Tyranid Horde**

I dislike how the jump from the 4th Edition Eldar codex to the 6th Edition codex forced Eldar and Dark Eldar to be willing allies or coming to each other's aid out of the blue. It ruins the whole thing about how the Craftworlders left the rest of their race to debase themselves before the fall. I've grown used to it now but I'm still a bit salty about that.

**Andersp90**

Wyzilla wrote:
Also the apothecarion is much larger than most people think because about half of it isn't counted as there are both company-assigned apothecaries and the apothecarion marine staff itself, which are different things.

..which still only leaves one apo pr company in the field.

w1zard wrote:
Insectum7 wrote:
In 4th edition you actually could field Apothecaries as Sergeants to squads.

I tend to think in other circumstances marines have some basic medical training and equipment to help deal with wounds.

I believe that this is stated in the lore. I have read multiple times about non-apothecary marines retrieving geneseed.

Do you have a scource on that?

w1zard wrote:
Insectum7 wrote:
In 4th edition you actually could field Apothecaries as Sergeants to squads.

I tend to think in other circumstances marines have some basic medical training and equipment to help deal with wounds.

Every modern day soldier is given basic first aid as part of training, it makes sense that 40k marines would be too.

I have never seen it mentioned in the lore. Neither in any codex nor in any BL novel.

And honestly what are they supposed to do? Modern day soldiers are trained in stopping bleeding and giving pain relief. An astartes metahuman physiology and armor already sees to both of those problems.

They wouldn't even be able to get to the problem since there is a thick layer of power armor in the way.

**Kelligula**

I know this was said already, but I also dislike the Dark Angels fluff. I love their look and grim demeanor, but Gav's writing and focus on the Fallen isn't for me.

Nid fluff is also hit or miss. These creatures are so powerful and dangerous... but they lose every major campaign. The worst part is they're always presented at almost End Times level strength that them winning anything major would really shake the setting up. So it's almost like they always have to lose in order to prevent any real significant changes.

**Andersp90**

Kelligula wrote:
I know this was said already, but I also dislike the Dark Angels fluff. I love their look and grim demeanor, but Gav's writing and focus on the Fallen isn't for me.

Nid fluff is also hit or miss. These creatures are so powerful and dangerous... but they lose every major campaign. The worst part is they're always presented at almost End Times level strength that them winning anything major would really shake the setting up. So it's almost like they always have to lose in order to prevent any real significant changes.

It's stated in the fluff that that hive fleet behemoth and kraken were little more than reconnaissance forces, sent to learn the weaknesses of the hive minds new prey.

Leviathan were steamrolling everything until the cicatrix maledictum was birthed.

**Tastyfish**

Hive City Dweller wrote:
Andersp90 wrote:
Hive City Dweller wrote:

All space marines start out as regular humans and become genetically engineered super soldiers! This premise is hard to accept because all we know about genetics doesn't allow you to take a fully formed organism (eg a human child) and transform it into something entirety different like a super-human adult marine.

That simply isn't true.

Firstly, a child is not a fully formed organism - that is why its called a child.

Secondly, the technology to edit genes in "fully formed organisms" already exists.

A good example is gene therapy.

http://www.bloodjournal.org/content/131/9/952

I understand that we're in danger of taking this discussion too seriously and looking a bit silly when we start analyzing science journals to prove our favorite toy soldiers can exist. I'll reply to this just for the curious, but I think this is why I started off with an audible throat clearing about not taking this too seriously.

When I say fully formed organism I mean a human child is a fully formed organism because it is a genetically complete product of his parent's DNA. At that point no more genetic variation should be generated in the the child's own DNA and it's replication should be stable, not accounting for random errors of replication which may cause small mutations which usually are cleared out my host's immune function. In other words as soon as we are formed we are all we are ever going to be in terms of genetic makeup. What you're describing is a developmental stage of the child, but that's a function of genetic expression, not changes in the genome. Puberty and growth happen in stages as the DNA you have from the moment of conception starts to express parts of itself which were previously silenced. This is very different from suddenly incorporating large chunks of foreign genetic material into human DNA>

You are right that genetic therapy has been implemented in some diseases. The article you share discusses using a virus as a vector of introducing a bit of engineered DNA into the host's hepatocytes (liver cells) and the liver using this new bit of DNA to produce new protein (factor 8 in the clotting cascade in this case) This is essentially taking advantage of the virus's reproduction cycle which sneaks its own DNA into human host so that our machinery can be used to make more copies of the virus.

Hemophilia is a bleeding disorder in which factor 8 is deficient and therefore people's blood doesn't clot properly and they bleed/bruise a lot. Well if you insert the viral DNA into a person's own liver cells, and you've previously sneaked the gene for properly functioning factor 8 protein into the virus's genome you're essentially sneakily giving the person a functioning gene and he can now make his own factor 8 and won't be a hemophiliac anymore. This is the theory.

The paper you link did just this and it worked, but the problem is, as they state in the discussion, this is a transient phenomenon; meaning you'e using this new gene only as long as the virus is integrated into the host DNA. As soon as the virus leaves the host DNA the person is back to not being able to make factor 8 and is still hemophiliac. They also note the risk of messing up the host genome if this wasn't a transient event. SO although gene therapy does show promising signs it's eons away from being able to take a gene and cleanly insert it into a fully formed genome. Again I'm not saying we can't imagine the science of the 41st millennium didn't figure this out, I'm just saying they could have stated so.

You can put organs from one person into another, and we're not that far off from growing organs on demand - either within a donor cytoskeleton or in modified animals that produce donor specific human organs (we've done mouse to rat and pig to slightly different pig). Nobody wants the marine to reproduce naturally, so we don't even need to change all the genes - just the ones in the cloned organs we implant. Lets also not forget that adult humans regularly edit their own DNA in specific areas to produce specific immune and olfactory cells - plus there is epigenetics on top of that, where environmental factors and change gene expression in an way that can be inherited. Human genetics is pretty plastic even before you add in 30,000 years of mucking about with it.

Cases like the space wolves might even actually be the norm, Astartes recruitment worlds are aimed at finding feral worlds that are the collapsed remains of a colony whose ancestors had come from an era where a certain amount of genetic plasticity was added into the prospective colonists, in case you needed to add ammonia resistance, or switch to using an alternative vitamin due to local deficiencies. The Terran process takes a lot longer, but once you've got access to the Plug and Play biology of worlds founded during a certain era, then swap in your geneseed and get implanting! Long as they've not gone too far down one route (Ogryns, Felids), you'll get a reasonable acceptance rate.

CRISPR/Cas9 is likely the more effective method of gene therapies now, rather than retroviruses too. The very properties that make the retroviruses transient (it's not the virus leaving, it's it being edited out) form the machinery that you use to edit the genome - definitely the kind of tech that lends itself to adding a few [INSERT GENE HERE] motifs into a prospective colonist knowing you're going to have to adapt them a bit to local conditions.

**Andersp90**

Tastyfish wrote:
Hive City Dweller wrote:
Andersp90 wrote:
Hive City Dweller wrote:

All space marines start out as regular humans and become genetically engineered super soldiers! This premise is hard to accept because all we know about genetics doesn't allow you to take a fully formed organism (eg a human child) and transform it into something entirety different like a super-human adult marine.

That simply isn't true.

Firstly, a child is not a fully formed organism - that is why its called a child.

Secondly, the technology to edit genes in "fully formed organisms" already exists.

A good example is gene therapy.

http://www.bloodjournal.org/content/131/9/952

I understand that we're in danger of taking this discussion too seriously and looking a bit silly when we start analyzing science journals to prove our favorite toy soldiers can exist. I'll reply to this just for the curious, but I think this is why I started off with an audible throat clearing about not taking this too seriously.

When I say fully formed organism I mean a human child is a fully formed organism because it is a genetically complete product of his parent's DNA. At that point no more genetic variation should be generated in the the child's own DNA and it's replication should be stable, not accounting for random errors of replication which may cause small mutations which usually are cleared out my host's immune function. In other words as soon as we are formed we are all we are ever going to be in terms of genetic makeup. What you're describing is a developmental stage of the child, but that's a function of genetic expression, not changes in the genome. Puberty and growth happen in stages as the DNA you have from the moment of conception starts to express parts of itself which were previously silenced. This is very different from suddenly incorporating large chunks of foreign genetic material into human DNA>

You are right that genetic therapy has been implemented in some diseases. The article you share discusses using a virus as a vector of introducing a bit of engineered DNA into the host's hepatocytes (liver cells) and the liver using this new bit of DNA to produce new protein (factor 8 in the clotting cascade in this case) This is essentially taking advantage of the virus's reproduction cycle which sneaks its own DNA into human host so that our machinery can be used to make more copies of the virus.

Hemophilia is a bleeding disorder in which factor 8 is deficient and therefore people's blood doesn't clot properly and they bleed/bruise a lot. Well if you insert the viral DNA into a person's own liver cells, and you've previously sneaked the gene for properly functioning factor 8 protein into the virus's genome you're essentially sneakily giving the person a functioning gene and he can now make his own factor 8 and won't be a hemophiliac anymore. This is the theory.

The paper you link did just this and it worked, but the problem is, as they state in the discussion, this is a transient phenomenon; meaning you'e using this new gene only as long as the virus is integrated into the host DNA. As soon as the virus leaves the host DNA the person is back to not being able to make factor 8 and is still hemophiliac. They also note the risk of messing up the host genome if this wasn't a transient event. SO although gene therapy does show promising signs it's eons away from being able to take a gene and cleanly insert it into a fully formed genome. Again I'm not saying we can't imagine the science of the 41st millennium didn't figure this out, I'm just saying they could have stated so.

Lets also not forget that adult humans regularly edit their own DNA in specific areas to produce specific immune and olfactory cells

Cells can change the expression of different genes. They do not edit the genome.

CRISPR/Cas9 is likely the more effective method of gene therapies now, rather than retroviruses too. The very properties that make the retroviruses transient (it's not the virus leaving, it's it being edited out) form the machinery that you use to edit the genome - definitely the kind of tech that lends itself to adding a few [INSERT GENE HERE] motifs into a prospective colonist knowing you're going to have to adapt them a bit to local conditions.

1. Retroviruses are NOT transient. HIV fx is a retrovirus. It can be treated - not cured.

2. The study I linked to used an adeno-associated virus. I dosent edit anything (which it is why it's transient). That is also what makes it safer than CRISPR/Cas9.

**Tastyfish**

Immune cells (and some olfactory sensors) actually do edit their own genomes. It's how the adaptive immune system works - there's a few genes that have a 'shuffle and randomise this bit' section that kicks in when they reproduce.

Total number of possibilities is supposed to be around one elephants worth (the SI unit of vague biology facts).

**Fajita Fan**

RobS wrote:
queen_annes_revenge wrote:
RobS wrote:
queen_annes_revenge wrote:
there have been some decent books though. I enjoyed the first heretic, and betrayer. I'll probably check out the novels featuring blood angel, dark angels/fallen, and death guard too.

Have you read Kharn; The Red Path and if so what did you think of it compared to other BL books?

I havent. I've read the free short story which I believe is the start of it, 'Furnaces of Haeleon' which was ok, but didnt give away much. I want to read it but I'm torn as to whether to pick up that or read Eater of Worlds, which has better reviews online, first. I loved Kharns portrayal in betrayer, and hope he isn't ruined in the new books. I've got a lot to get through though. my mrs has got me Lords of Silence for christmas, and I wouldnt mind reading the word bearers trilogy.

Without giving away too much, I'd go for Eater of Worlds.

There isn't much in The Red Path apart from a lot of Kharn hacking people apart. I know that's kind of his thing but you can have too much of a good thing and the way it's written didn't really do much to convince me of how scarily effective in combat Kharn is. To be honest, in a lot of the combat scenes (so that's a lot of the book) I couldn't imagine from the descriptions what was actually going on.

I've liked the bits of writing I've seen from ADB (that 'maybe, maybe' post he wrote for Bolter and Chainsword is just a perfect imagining of the life of a Chaos Space Marine) so I have high hopes for Betrayer, however.

I don't like a lot of the BL books, especially the 40k stuff. Storm of Iron (about the Iron Warriors) was cool and so was Titanicus (about the titans). The Space Wolf books about Ragnar were fun many years ago but I doubt they hold up.

Now there's a few HH books that I liked a lot. "Mechanicum" was about titans and the politics of Mars. The first three were about the fall of Horus and were good IIRC (it's been 10 years or something). Now with that said "Legion" was awesome, "Thousand Sons" was great, and the style of "Prospero Burns" was a really cool idea [hint: watch the movie "The 13th Warrior" first].

Automatically Appended Next Post:

queen_annes_revenge wrote:
there have been some decent books though. I enjoyed the first heretic, and betrayer. I'll probably check out the novels featuring blood angel, dark angels/fallen, and death guard too.

I had really high hopes for the Dark Angels books because I have big Deathwing army but they were, in my opinion, really poor. The first Dark Angel book started out well on Caliban pre discovery but then I thought they went downhill fast. The first few books with the battle of Istvaan were a fun read but the whole HH series is waaaaay too bloated and so many books were published just to make money rather than really add to the story.

**Andersp90**

Tastyfish wrote:
Immune cells (and some olfactory sensors) actually do edit their own genomes. It's how the adaptive immune system works - there's a few genes that have a 'shuffle and randomise this bit' section that kicks in when they reproduce.

Total number of possibilities is supposed to be around one elephants worth (the SI unit of vague biology facts).

Yes, that is somatic reombination which occurs during the proliferation of lymphocytes.

I guess you could call that editing in layman's terms.

**w1zard**

Andersp90 wrote:
Do you have a scource on that?

Not offhand. But there was multiple references over the course of many BL novels featuring marines. Even if you don't believe that regular marines can remove geneseed themselves, they can still carry the corpse back to base where they can find someone who can.

Andersp90 wrote:

I have never seen it mentioned in the lore. Neither in any codex nor in any BL novel.

And honestly what are they supposed to do? Modern day soldiers are trained in stopping bleeding and giving pain relief. An astartes metahuman physiology and armor already sees to both of those problems.

They wouldn't even be able to get to the problem since there is a thick layer of power armor in the way.

Uhh... are you serious? You do realize that power armor is made to be removable right?

I find it fantastical and non-believeable that Space Marines don't know any kind of field medicine. I mean, they also regularly fight alongside human troops as well so that kind of thing is valuable to know and takes what? Like a month tops to teach that kind of thing?

"Help, brother Krytus! I have been shot! It has breached my armor and damaged my hearts!"... "Sorry, brother Galt! I know not the arcane mysteries of sutures, nor cauterization, nor any kind of primary battlefield medicine, and so I shall stand here and watch dispassionately as you slowly succumb to your wound!"... "Alas!".

**Delvarus Centurion**

w1zard wrote:
Andersp90 wrote:
Do you have a scource on that?

Not offhand. But there was multiple references over the course of many BL novels featuring marines. Even if you don't believe that regular marines can remove geneseed themselves, they can still carry the corpse back to base where they can find someone who can.

Andersp90 wrote:

I have never seen it mentioned in the lore. Neither in any codex nor in any BL novel.

And honestly what are they supposed to do? Modern day soldiers are trained in stopping bleeding and giving pain relief. An astartes metahuman physiology and armor already sees to both of those problems.

They wouldn't even be able to get to the problem since there is a thick layer of power armor in the way.

Uhh... are you serious? You do realize that power armor is made to be removable right?

I find it much more fantastical and non-believeable that Space Marines don't know any kind of field medicine, then that they do.

"Help, brother Krytus! I have been shot! It has breached my armor and damaged my hearts!"... "Sorry, brother Galt! I know not the arcane mysteries of sutures, nor cauterization, nor any kind of primary battlefield medicine, and so I shall stand here and watch dispassionately as you slowly succumb to your wound!"... "Alas!".

They actually don't know anything about the duties of an Apothecary, Kharn Eater of Worlds shows that, they basically had one Apothecary left who was training a human and after that the human took over and she became invaluable because no one else had the foggiest clue about how to mend Astartes.

**w1zard**

Delvarus Centurion wrote:
They actually don't know anything about the duties of an Apothecary, Kharn Eater of Worlds shows that, they basically had one Apothecary left who was training a human and after that the human took over and she became invaluable because no one else had the foggiest clue about how to mend Astartes.

We aren't talking about surgery or anything complex. But a Space Marine should know how to cauterize a wound or do basic CPR. Or even how to retrieve geneseed as you can just cut it out of the gland on the neck with a combat knife.

**epronovost**

w1zard wrote:

We aren't talking about surgery or anything complex. But a Space Marine should know how to cauterize a wound or do basic CPR. Or even how to retrieve geneseed as you can just cut it out of the gland on the neck with a combat knife.

Are you mad!! Applying the sacred and blessed plaster without the proper ministration and prayer to its indominable machine spirit will make its removal atrociously painful. That's why there is a large carnivorous lizard on it; to warn you of the stinging bite of its wrath! this is far too complex for the intellect of a simple Space Marine.

/joke

**Andersp90**

w1zard wrote:
Andersp90 wrote:
Do you have a scource on that?

Not offhand. But there was multiple references over the course of many BL novels featuring marines. Even if you don't believe that regular marines can remove geneseed themselves, they can still carry the corpse back to base where they can find someone who can.

True.

Uhh... are you serious? You do realize that power armor is made to be removable right?

Weeelllll you see, power armor is not exactly "click-on-click-off". Unless you happen to have a tech priest in the squad, it aint going nowhere. Why do you think the apothecaryes have a small chainsaw and drill attached to their arm?

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Narthecium

I find it fantastical and non-believeable that Space Marines don't know any kind of field medicine. I mean, they also regularly fight alongside human troops as well so that kind of thing is valuable to know and takes what? Like a month tops to teach that kind of thing?

Yep, a loving and caring astartes giving a stricken guardsman CPR. That is totally a thing.

**pelicaniforce**

Andersp90 wrote:
Wyzilla wrote:
Also the apothecarion is much larger than most people think because about half of it isn't counted as there are both company-assigned apothecaries and the apothecarion marine staff itself, which are different things.

..which still only leaves one apo pr company in the field.

Turns out to be the other way around, doesn’t it. Most companies are split up for detached duty and their company apothecary isn’t in the field with them.

“This chemical treatment is reduced after completion of the initiation process, but it never ends. Marines undergo periodic treatment for the rest of their lives in order to maintain a stable metabolism.”

Oh, every company of 100 marines has a specific dedicated apothecary because he’s their general practitioner. The mail job of the first and sixth through tenth captains is mostly to keep a company of combat ready marines and to decide which of his marines to attach to a given task force when he’s been ordered to send just x number of squads. He needs a company medical officer to tell him who is fit and, if they’re not, when they will be.

“In the field” there could be half a dozen apothecaries there to be field surgeons. That’s rather the point, they’re surgeons, they don’t need to be attached to any specific company.

**Andykp**

All this talk about what marines do and don’t know, you couldn’t even do cpr on a marine because their ribs are fused into a solid shell, which would also render them unable to breath. The science doesn’t add up if you look at marines in any depth. At even close. But in my opinion if you have been in battles for 300 years you are going to learn a thing or two about battlefield first aid. Even without studying you would pick it up. People do in real life in much shorter time frames.

**Andersp90**

pelicaniforce wrote:
Andersp90 wrote:
Wyzilla wrote:
Also the apothecarion is much larger than most people think because about half of it isn't counted as there are both company-assigned apothecaries and the apothecarion marine staff itself, which are different things.

..which still only leaves one apo pr company in the field.

Turns out to be the other way around, doesn’t it. Most companies are split up for detached duty and their company apothecary isn’t in the field with them.

“This chemical treatment is reduced after completion of the initiation process, but it never ends. Marines undergo periodic treatment for the rest of their lives in order to maintain a stable metabolism.”

Oh, every company of 100 marines has a specific dedicated apothecary because he’s their general practitioner. The mail job of the first and sixth through tenth captains is mostly to keep a company of combat ready marines and to decide which of his marines to attach to a given task force when he’s been ordered to send just x number of squads. He needs a company medical officer to tell him who is fit and, if they’re not, when they will be.

“In the field” there could be half a dozen apothecaries there to be field surgeons. That’s rather the point, they’re surgeons, they don’t need to be attached to any specific company.

Wrong.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Apothecarion

**pelicaniforce**

Oh, that’s ok. We’re both preposterously stupid then.

**Andersp90**

pelicaniforce wrote:
Oh, that’s ok. We’re both preposterously stupid then.

1 Apothecary pr. company, and the rest as staff at the apothecarion. Like I said.

What is it that you feel I have stated wrongly?

**w1zard**

Andersp90 wrote:
Yep, a loving and caring astartes giving a stricken guardsman CPR. That is totally a thing.

They probably wouldn't waste their time with a guardsmen unless there was literally nothing else for them to do, but for a fellow astarte? You bet your ass they would.

**Thargrim**

I don't like the primaris or cawl stuff or the return of loyalist primarchs. Or tbh any of the new lore released over the past two years. Aside from Necromunda, but that has remained old school and kept mostly intact by the developers involved.

**Andersp90**

w1zard wrote:
Andersp90 wrote:
Yep, a loving and caring astartes giving a stricken guardsman CPR. That is totally a thing.

They probably wouldn't waste their time with a guardsmen unless there was literally nothing else for them to do, but for a fellow astarte? You bet your ass they would.

I agree, but what are they supposed to do? They can't remove armor to get to the wound.

And like I have already stated, their bodies are built to take care of any injuries. Larraman cells will stop any bleeding save for at fatal wound.

**w1zard**

Thargrim wrote:
I don't like the primaris or cawl stuff or the return of loyalist primarchs. Or tbh any of the new lore released over the past two years. Aside from Necromunda, but that has remained old school and kept mostly intact by the developers involved.

Why may I ask?

I actually really like the new stuff apart from the ham-handedness by which the primaris were introduced (lol bigger better marines). Guilliman's return and the tearing open of the eye of terror has breathed new life into a setting that has been pretty stagnant for the past decade. It also served to inject a little hope to serve as an excellent balance to the grimderp.

Andersp90 wrote:
w1zard wrote:
Andersp90 wrote:
Yep, a loving and caring astartes giving a stricken guardsman CPR. That is totally a thing.

They probably wouldn't waste their time with a guardsmen unless there was literally nothing else for them to do, but for a fellow astarte? You bet your ass they would.

I agree, but what are they supposed to do? They can't remove armor to get to the wound.

And like I have already stated, their bodies are built to take care of any injuries. Larraman cells will stop any bleeing save for at fatal wound.

Eh, if the space marine loses both of his legs hes going to bleed out before the blood can clot unless the stumps get cauterized. Larraman cells increase clotting speed to many times what a normal human's is, but it's not MAGIC like a can of flexseal or something.