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fe40k wrote:

And if we're being realistic - Orks are supposed to be the "random" faction,

Good job - now if a designer reads your post, Rokkits will be errata'ed to d3 (with no SM change).

Played against death guard (again) today, my resume:

- Death guard first turn, moves, kill 8 boyz with boetid flamers, no range for more dakka.
- Orks turn: moves, shoot into the boetids with pistols, tankbustas shoot into the boetids inside battlewagon and made some wounds too, warboss charge like cray into tons of zombies (reason was to catch a objective point), deffkopta reach zombies too. Warboss with fist of gork, killa klaw, Brutal but Kunnin and squigg kill 8 or 9 zombies.

- Death guard second turn: Moves, dakka into boyz, too much gak of psychics, demon prince and boetids are inside some boxes so I cannot charge into them, tons of zombies attack my warboss and he has 1 wound left.
-Orks turn: 30 boyz charge zombies, nobz DaJump behind the enemy line and charge (I wanted to attack from all sides), my tankbustas disembark, I pay for More Dakka, More Stikkbombs and that gak of reroling wounds at vehicles and my tankbustas annihilate 2 boetids, I have tons and tons of bodies and death guard cannot do anything at 1500points to stop me (2x30 boyz, 15 nobz, 10 tankbustas, 10 gretchlin, 3 deffkoptas...). He attack my warboss paying CP, he dies, before dying I pay more CP and he does a final blow, he kills tons of zombies. 30 boyz charge into his HQ and hes full trapped.

- Death guard third turn: 1 daemon prince left, 1 HQ left and 20 zombies, he try to make some victory points knowing he's done.
- Orks turn: I got like 10 more victory points, I have freedom to make all tactical objectives and his HQ is fethed up, before shooting phase, we end the match, end is like 18-4.

If my enemy don't kill enough troops early, I win at round 3 100%, I have tons of melee so I'm quite useless first 2 turns, but after that I can stomp easy

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Flat 3 damage is far superior to D6 damage

I basically agree, "far superior" is an hyperbole but I also prefer flat 3 over D6. But S9 is better than S8, AP-3 is better than AP-2 and range 48'' is better than 24''. Heavy vs assault doesn't matter since range 48'' means there's no need of moving at all.

 Blackie wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
The Power First current price is the most annoying thing from CA. I mean, it's exactly a Power Klaw, nothing more, nothing less. IMHO also 11 points Plasma Guns are outrageous when Rokkits cost 12 points.

I don't get the rage about this. I wouldn't be caught dead putting a PF on one of my Death Guard champions, while I put them on every single boss nob. Two S8 attacks are no competition to three S10 attacks at all. I don't mind paying 4 additional points.

By your logic orks ranged weapons should cost half their points since the platforms have low BS. If a plasma gun is 11, but also if it was 13, what's the appropriate cost of a rokkit launcha? Plasma guns hit on 3s, rokkits on 5s or 4s. PF and PK are exactly the same weapon, the platforms that carries them should have a different cost.

Wrong. By my logic I don't give a feth about what weapons of other codices cost. A PK is a good weapon in the ork codex at 13 points. A PF is a terrible weapon in any marine codex for 8 points. That is all that matters.

And comparing rokkits to plasma? You might as well compare choppas to volcano lances.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Blackie wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
The Power First current price is the most annoying thing from CA. I mean, it's exactly a Power Klaw, nothing more, nothing less. IMHO also 11 points Plasma Guns are outrageous when Rokkits cost 12 points.

I don't get the rage about this. I wouldn't be caught dead putting a PF on one of my Death Guard champions, while I put them on every single boss nob. Two S8 attacks are no competition to three S10 attacks at all. I don't mind paying 4 additional points.

By your logic orks ranged weapons should cost half their points since the platforms have low BS. If a plasma gun is 11, but also if it was 13, what's the appropriate cost of a rokkit launcha? Plasma guns hit on 3s, rokkits on 5s or 4s. PF and PK are exactly the same weapon, the platforms that carries them should have a different cost.

Wrong. By my logic I don't give a feth about what weapons of other codices cost. A PK is a good weapon in the ork codex at 13 points. A PF is a terrible weapon in any marine codex for 8 points. That is all that matters.

And comparing rokkits to plasma? You might as well compare choppas to volcano lances.

If Power Klaws are that good, why is no one talking about using them outside of a warboss or MANz? Regular nobs it's been double choppa or big choppa. I know I feel like like a dang fool using them.

 Luke_Prowler wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 Blackie wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
The Power First current price is the most annoying thing from CA. I mean, it's exactly a Power Klaw, nothing more, nothing less. IMHO also 11 points Plasma Guns are outrageous when Rokkits cost 12 points.

I don't get the rage about this. I wouldn't be caught dead putting a PF on one of my Death Guard champions, while I put them on every single boss nob. Two S8 attacks are no competition to three S10 attacks at all. I don't mind paying 4 additional points.

By your logic orks ranged weapons should cost half their points since the platforms have low BS. If a plasma gun is 11, but also if it was 13, what's the appropriate cost of a rokkit launcha? Plasma guns hit on 3s, rokkits on 5s or 4s. PF and PK are exactly the same weapon, the platforms that carries them should have a different cost.

Wrong. By my logic I don't give a feth about what weapons of other codices cost. A PK is a good weapon in the ork codex at 13 points. A PF is a terrible weapon in any marine codex for 8 points. That is all that matters.

And comparing rokkits to plasma? You might as well compare choppas to volcano lances.

If Power Klaws are that good, why is no one talking about using them outside of a warboss or MANz? Regular nobs it's been double choppa or big choppa. I know I feel like like a dang fool using them.

lmao, this sums it up perfectly. Nobody is taking PowerKlaws on anything except Warbosses and meganobz and even that is a stretch since most warbosses are taking the relic klaw and the Meganobz are REQUIRED to take powerklaws or saws.

How are people idealy kitting out Kommando nobz? Power stabba or big choppa or what?

 Dr.Duck wrote:
How are people idealy kitting out Kommando nobz? Power stabba or big choppa or what?

I take mine naked, but with the new rule I might start bringing double choppa Kommando Nobz.

So what about my following idea i posted a page back:

A Bad Moons Dread Waaagh Big Mek with Da Soup'd Up Shokka popping Kustom Ammo and Showin' Off (maybe with Moar Dakka too) to shot 6d6 shots.

Possibly 8d6 shots... "Kustom Job: This unit can shoot twice this shooting phase with all its ranged weapons."

then...

"Showin' Off: Immediately after resolving a shooting attack with a Bad Moons Infantry unit from your army. This unit can shoot all of its weapons a second time."

so would that be 2d6 shots twice and then all that a second time?

Then add Big Killa Boss to get +1 to wound vs vehicles and monsters and your reroll 1's to hit. You wouldnt actually need walkers in the army, just him as he qualifies for the Dread Waaagh Detachment .

He is literally 80pts, is a character so cant be targetted unless its snipers (grot shield) or pyschic powers, has a huge 60" range.

 Dr.Duck wrote:
How are people idealy kitting out Kommando nobz? Power stabba or big choppa or what?

Never the powerklaw unless ur forced too with no index
The big choppa is my go too... it pairs well w the burnas as fake power weapons But the power stabba and double choppa is fine depending on points.

So I tried my Gorkanaut bomb idea. Didn't go to well because I whiffed the charge even with Ramming Speed and Ere We Go. :( Got destroyed in 1 turn of shooting, Warboss popped out and got slaughtered by charging Jetbikes.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
So I tried my Gorkanaut bomb idea. Didn't go to well because I whiffed the charge even with Ramming Speed and Ere We Go. :( Got destroyed in 1 turn of shooting, Warboss popped out and got slaughtered by charging Jetbikes.

MEDIOCRE!!!

really though that is some bad dice, go buy a lottery ticket.

My home terrain are lots of little annoying things that we call difficult terrain and I've slowly stopped putting it on the table, because missing even one charge can be gameover. Codex: Glasskannon

I wonder if running a Morkanaught with KFF might have been better.

I dunno, I feel like power klaws fine, even in boys squads they have their niche. The extra AP can go a long way and at least for deffskulls, it makes the most of the weapon since you can reroll everything for it.

 Grimskul wrote:
I dunno, I feel like power klaws fine, even in boys squads they have their niche. The extra AP can go a long way and at least for deffskulls, it makes the most of the weapon since you can reroll everything for it.

Well it depends on the target. Boyz are not good at all against armored targets but amazing against infantries. Against infantries, even elite ones, the nobz attack are a bonus but don't matter than much and against armored stuff the whole unit is not powerful enough to do serious damage. A PK doesn't synergize well with boyz in this edition, it's not like in previous editions where boyz squads were just ablative wounds for than single PK nob. Choppa and big choppa have better synergy with lots of S4 AP- attacks. Sure if you have a few spared point why not, PK are certainly not trash, but I always struggle with any single point and I basically never take them for boyz mobs.

Maybe it's just me, I always avoid versatility. If I play competitively each unit in my army must have a specific job and be optmized to do that, unless there's a unit in the codex that is good for everything (like drukhari's disintegrator cannons that are effective against infantries and tanks outpferforming dark lances) but I don't think orks have something like that, barring Smasha Guns.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
I wonder if running a Morkanaught with KFF might have been better.

If you fail that charge and soak the anti tank in the subsequent turn the morkanaut would be damaged and with less attacks than a gorkanaut. If the opponent managed to kill the gorkanaut, with a 5++ maybe the walker could survive but surely in bad shape. His KFF wouldn't probably cover much since the naut arrived by tellyporta. It would have been a waste of points IMHO, at least tellyporting a gorkanaut has some sense. The morkanaut is more useful as a gun boat that provides the invuln for a other units that are going to attract some attention like a bustas' trukk or a bonebreaka.

So I don't have a stompa anymore but the tellyporta stompa strat could be fun in a narrative game and now they can get a 5+ invuln with a relic. I hadn't seen this stompa mob picture until now.

The stratagem only works for a super-heavy detachment, so a minimum of 3 lords of war. What a waste of paper.

 Jidmah wrote:
The stratagem only works for a super-heavy detachment, so a minimum of 3 lords of war. What a waste of paper.

You could squeeze it in at 2k with a stompa and 2x kill tanks. And then a base battalion for CP but that's still a terrible force, especially since it costs 4CP to tellyport the stompa so that's still out. And it's not like the other buffs are making up for the crazy point cost of it

Wow what a god awful "Formation".

Reminds me though of 7th edition where Orkz were given a formation that required 2/3rds or more of your army to build a single Formation and the benefit was meh at best, where as Other factions like Space Marines got 400+ free transports armed with TL Lascannons and Plasma guns

Here's to hoping the Dread Waagh is decent. And gives benefits to your Kanz, cuz they need it.

 flandarz wrote:
Here's to hoping the Dread Waagh is decent. And gives benefits to your Kanz, cuz they need it.

My Kanz have been collecting dust since 7th edition, and I only took them out in 7th as a joke army...which was surprisingly effective when players showed up with a tailored list and realized they didn't have enough anti-armor

I ain't gonna lie, I'd be pretty happy to roll an all Dread and Kan Army, if the Detachment makes it worth the effort.

 flandarz wrote:
I ain't gonna lie, I'd be pretty happy to roll an all Dread and Kan Army, if the Detachment makes it worth the effort.

We already know what the dread waaagh does. For 1CP you get the detachment. It affects Big meks, killa kanz, deffdreads, Gorkanauts, Morkanauts
The warlord trait must be given to a big mekaniak, he then repairs 1 additional wound everytime he uses that ability.
The relic is the souped-up shokka, a 2d6 SAG
Kustom Ammo strat 2CP: Shoot again with a dread waaagh unit (don't know if this works on kanz)
Mek Connections 1CP: Get a kustom job from the mekshop on 4+ instead of 6+

That seems lackluster. We already got a WL trait that improves Mek repair. Shoot again and Relic are alright, but even a 4+ Kustom Job ain't gonna save the Workshop from gathering dust. Especially if you're paying CP just for an increased chance.

Well yeah. The relic is good and if you only have 1 in your current army (and a big mek SAG) it might be worth to spend 2CP to get it.

2CP to shoot again might be a decent investment on him or the morkanaut.

 Jidmah wrote:
The stratagem only works for a super-heavy detachment, so a minimum of 3 lords of war. What a waste of paper.

Wow... that's a non-starter.

It would've been usable had it said "pick a detachment with a Stompa"...

Good job GW for making such a worthless rule.

PiñaColada wrote:
Well yeah. The relic is good and if you only have 1 in your current army (and a big mek SAG) it might be worth to spend 2CP to get it.

2CP to shoot again might be a decent investment on him or the morkanaut.

If we can trigger the Shoot Again with Kanz, loading up on some KMBs or Rokkits could be useful too.

 whembly wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
The stratagem only works for a super-heavy detachment, so a minimum of 3 lords of war. What a waste of paper.

Wow... that's a non-starter.

It would've been usable had it said "pick a detachment with a Stompa"...

Good job GW for making such a worthless rule.

Yep... Tellyporting Stompa with trait (don't know which one would be better, both look nice) and Relic just might be worth that 920 points price tag. Probably want to be Bad Moonz for the reroll 1s in the shooting phase. Tellyport in, use More Dakka for shooting, then Ramming Speed to guarantee the charge. Would be absolutely gorious, even if it's 9 CP to pull it off. If I ever get 2 Kill Tanks and a Stompa I'll be sure to give it a go (or proxy a Gorkanaut and 2 Battlewagons for a single game to see if it works for gaks and giggles)

Neither of the Dread Waaagh stratagems specify Gretchin units, and the Dread Waaagh does not provide a rule for Kans to override the Gretchin rule in the codex. RAW, they can't use the Dread Waaagh strats.

Literally the only benefit to Kans in a Dread Waaagh is if you take the warlord trait, you can repair an extra wound when fixing Kans. Whoop dee doo.

It's like GW wants shielding Orkz to be the only thing Grots are good for.