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Well went to the competive qualifier tournament and boy what a whopping I got. My list was sooooo outclassed and I was soooo outplayed. Also had missed that all scenarios had killpoints though luckily difference was capped at 6. Still basically starting at -6 is rough.

My list:





One of my dreads photographed by tournament organizer.

First game was up against this eldar nightmare:





Somewhere on my turn 1 or his turn 1. Anyway did get 1st turn(yey) but screwed up with lootas trying to take out serpent with reapers. Failed. Fired again splitting few lootas to that trying to finish but failed with 2 left and rest to only flyer I could see leaving it with 2-3 wounds. Should have first fired everything at flier and then see if I had anything left for serpent(only thing I could see anyway). Opponent later thought I should have shot at 2 flyers. Well nice idea but would require da jumping out of grot safety or having put grots on my left but I needed to surround 360 degrees and I would struggle to see anywhere later. I also got into headache that grot unit behind didn't protect from front so should have done half moons. Also ynnari shooting in magic phase soaked up grots and cp's fast needing to use grot screen in 2 phase. Luckily he only got that spell off 1st and 6th turn.

I got 2 flyers out but serpents were nightmare and failed to do anything. I stupidly deep striked both boyz and dreads so flyers, serpents and bazillion small units ensured in t3 I got nothing useful out of deep strikes. Well 1 or 2 dreads into guardians but then out. Boyz deep striked behind house trying to avoid wipe out but eventually had to risk out with 4vp objective in open. Alas even with 5++ the reapers took them out no problemo. 5th turn he got good cards and 6th turn was last thing I needed. Survived with lone weirdboy and luckily game ended but again huge cards for him. Bazillion vp's from cards, lots in objectives and max 6 from kill point gap.

Game 2. Civil war vs another orks!



Ouch. Less grots but better loota star. Lots of boyz and good support from them and 3 dakkajet...Ouch.



On my turn 1. I took out 2 dakkajets from right with 2x3 shots from loota squad. Going first was big. On left bikes and trike tried suicide charge vs boyz mob to box him in and get them under 20 maybe. With 11+whatever trike averages from shooting as average output shouldn't be too bad but ended up barely putting up a dent and dying on his turn(trike on my turn...). Game could be summed up as "da jumping loota stars" as that's what was going on. T2 I brought in boyz and charged his boyz squad #2 that had da jumped to cover lootas from my deep strikes. I killed tons but they had warpath on so killed lots. I activated fight again(that faq nerf hit me big here) and vaporized rest and tagged his lootas who killed another 4. With 18 dead orks and 12 left I lost lots to morale leaving like 4. I took out his last dakkajet and thinned the boyz mob bikes had attacked but very bad rolling there.

His da jump succeeded thanks to +2 from having bigger loota star than I had so they went to killing several my lootas grot screen or not. 44 shots twice gets some through anyway. His boyz mob charged grots and tagged MY lootas. Da jump got them out of there though. Also boyz squad #3 came to my left. Careless there with spare grots. Should have blocked that area.Deff dreads came to left of boyz on left which was bad idea in the end. a) I should have trusted my shooting there b) there's warboss there and lootas c) there was 3rd boyz mob on my right I should have went for...Could even have charged with all 3 rather than 1 that charged warboss and failed to even kill it. Shooting at least wiped out boyz mob(grots were real heroes here killing boyz left and right. Albeit I had like 40 grots shooting ).

Well lootas and warboss dealt with deff dreads and da jump failed leaving my loota mob to mercy of boyz mob. At least my warlord killed his warlord before lootas killed him. We stopped before end as a) his boyz would have likely wiped out anyway b) he was bazillion vp's ahead anyway so 0-20.

Last game would be against tau:



Short edge deployment which actually was blessing as I Actually outranged him! That's unusual.

I got turn 1 and this time hadn't tellyported boyz. And boy I got near perfect chance for awesome start. Bikes+trike headed to deal with crisis team and 1 died to overwatch vs bikes that failed to charge(Drat). I used ramming speed and BARELY charged with trike but only got 3 drones for my effort. However real star potential were boyz that da jumped next to like 6 squads of small tau warriors. KMK's torched the broadside and lootas split their 3 shots each. Rolled pretty badly but all in all I got 2 squads dead, 1 squad to 3 guys and critically(I wasn't even TRYING to finish off squads as I Wanted small survivor squad) one squad behind closest squad dropped to 1 warrior. So now. 8" charge. If I succeed(78% odds) I will vaporize that 5 squad and if I roll like 9 or 10 I can even pile in to that 1 guy and if not consolidiate would get. Fight twice strategem if need be. I would have 30 boyz in his dz IMMUNE TO SHOOTING!

Best I got was 7"...

Needless to say 2 riptides, 2 commanders, 30 shots from firewarriors did not leave even 1 survivor for endless tide.

T2. I brought in deff dreads behind riptides. My lootas had no LOS to anything useful but no problem. Da jump into rocky outcrop. More dakka. 3 shots. All into riptide. 45 shots later near dead. Opponent was "phew survived" and then I fired 45 shots again and his reaction went to WHAT? when his riptide vanished in cloud of smoke. Problem was my lootas had no grot screens but I was fairly far from his weapons...Weird feeling to be outranging tau.

So 3 deff dread vs riptide. One charged. Got lots of overwatch but survived. Second charged in, got 1 wound from another support overwatch. Unfortunately 3rd failed and there was still 2 drones that took out big saws so left with wounds. Sigh. His turn fall back and concentrated on 3 dreads rather than lootas killing them all.

T3 lootas da jumped to other side(along with grots that rushed in to provide some screen in case) triggering much muttering. I tried to finish off riptide(now with 9 wounds) but 1 shots even with reroll. With more dakka on I opted to spend last 2 for show off as well despite 1 shot but 3++ it had triggered kept him going. He got just lotsa grots into range though.

T4 I finished off crisis team(1 survivor. 1 more had corked itself by overcharge) with SAG. Lootas finished off riptide and also another drone squadron when he tried to keep it alive.

T5. Time was running up so we called this last turn(he was doubtful could we get it done. I said yes. Should have tried to get game ended but with 20 minutes left felt 1 more round was fair to do). I failed da jump grot squad into his dz which would have been 2 vp(master of warp and behind the enemy lines). 12 grots charged lone firewarrior to get blood and guts and failed. His turn he got 6 cards(scenario had always discard all at start, then get 3+1 per kill from last turn so he got 6) so he got domination, secure 4, priority order secure 4 which was easy with his cold star suit warlord, psychological warfare(he also took care of that killing 4 grots) and some other so got tons of cards.

He got 19 from cards, 2 difference from kill points, 4 difference from objectives. I got total of 10 so 25-10 so 18-2 for tau.

Bugger. Final position tied last with 17 pts(so 15/25 from painting) with another tau.

Improvements from list I think I could do with same rules(ie no index).

option a) drop trike and big mek w/MA&KFF. Never impressed with those, trike easy kill point, get another SAG and the freeboota character. Another long range gun with d6 damage could be nice as deathskull. 1 was already pretty useful and this with some bad rolling. Save tons of points. Drop also bikes. Have yet to be impressed with them. Either dakkajet or maybe mek guns.
option b) Change deth skull battallion into spearhead. Drop either trike or kff MA mek. Bolster the BM grots. Get mek guns or maybe dakkajet if points have. Consider also option a combining here. Less killpoints, more guns. Don't tellyport boyz to deal with 14 cp.

Oh and obviously skorchas on dreads needs to go if I wanted optimum but I need to rip arms and convert something to them.

On the dread mob you could just bring a super shooty big mek with gretchin in a patrol to spit out the 2d6 shokk attacks, then shoot again with their strat and then shoot again if you are a bad moon or if he is your warlord and a deathskull he can be sniping out characters like nobodies business.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
On the dread mob you could just bring a super shooty big mek with gretchin in a patrol to spit out the 2d6 shokk attacks, then shoot again with their strat and then shoot again if you are a bad moon or if he is your warlord and a deathskull he can be sniping out characters like nobodies business.

I'm not convinced you CAN shoot three time bad moon or not. Both strategems allow you to fire "second time". That's same effect from 2 strategems. If you are shooting 3rd time it's not second time. It's not "shoot one more time" which would stack. But shooting 2nd time twice? Nope. Just like vulkrite knights don't get 3 hits out of strategem and relic that is 6=2 hits don't get here.

But that's allright IMO. The bad moon strategem is better off on lootas or tank bustas anyway. And the super SAG I would prefer on death skull anyway to get those rerolls. You can even decide to not use them(except damage if first salvo gets them) if first salvo is bad rolls.

tneva82 wrote:

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
On the dread mob you could just bring a super shooty big mek with gretchin in a patrol to spit out the 2d6 shokk attacks, then shoot again with their strat and then shoot again if you are a bad moon or if he is your warlord and a deathskull he can be sniping out characters like nobodies business.

I'm not convinced you CAN shoot three time bad moon or not. Both strategems allow you to fire "second time". That's same effect from 2 strategems. If you are shooting 3rd time it's not second time. It's not "shoot one more time" which would stack. But shooting 2nd time twice? Nope. Just like vulkrite knights don't get 3 hits out of strategem and relic that is 6=2 hits don't get here.

But that's allright IMO. The bad moon strategem is better off on lootas or tank bustas anyway. And the super SAG I would prefer on death skull anyway to get those rerolls. You can even decide to not use them(except damage if first salvo gets them) if first salvo is bad rolls.

Yeah that is actually a very good point I had not thought of. Still though the deathskulls version would be pretty awesome still and have a great niche for vehicle slaying and character sniping.

Yeah deathskull is the one I would go with that. IMO bad moon one is just too awesome for lootas or tank bustas. The lootas are just solving so much stuff. As long as you don\t run into dark eldars that is! But the SAG is pretty good weapon for deathskull and super SAG more so. And shoot again MIGHT be worth it sometimes though CP's are sooo precious on orks.

tneva82 wrote:
Well went to the competive qualifier tournament and boy what a whopping I got. My list was sooooo outclassed and I was soooo outplayed. Also had missed that all scenarios had killpoints though luckily difference was capped at 6. Still basically starting at -6 is rough.

Nice batreps, sorry you had a bad day.

Killpoints will always be tough for us. Too bad you didn't know before you went, you could have made some coffee and read a book...might have been more fun.

Oof, kill points and random objectives? That's a terrible combo to see at a tourney. At least you weren't running straight Deathskullz and handing out free kp even faster, I guess?

I do like the Deathskullz Super-SAG, though. He's got about the same firepower as a unit of Lootas versus a lot of targets, is pretty cheap, is harder to snipe, and let's you shoot twice in other clans (or with two units, if running Badmoons and you can afford it).

Well another casual tournament coming up. 1750 pts, no index. This time I know in advance kill points and again maxed at 6 for the gap. Scenarios will be:



Current line of thinking is(prechecking already is it casual enough. Loota star being biggest eye browser but that's only ranged weapon and I'm eating so much CP anyway that will struggle to power them much. I might have to limit on more dakka unless I have to move around).



Plan goes: Try to deploy lootas in position they can shoot at decent targets. T1 da jump shoota mob to clear chaff. Mob up evil suns. T2 da jump them and bring goffs from tellyport. Pray like hell goffs make the charge.

tneva82 wrote:

Current line of thinking is(prechecking already is it casual enough. Loota star being biggest eye browser but that's only ranged weapon and I'm eating so much CP anyway that will struggle to power them much. I might have to limit on more dakka unless I have to move around).

There is no reason to use more dakka if you don't have a -1 modifier. +16% shots isn't worth 2 cp.

hortsmann wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Current line of thinking is(prechecking already is it casual enough. Loota star being biggest eye browser but that's only ranged weapon and I'm eating so much CP anyway that will struggle to power them much. I might have to limit on more dakka unless I have to move around).

There is no reason to use more dakka if you don't have a -1 modifier. +16% shots isn't worth 2 cp.

Depends on targets. For example on sunday bringing down that riptide was worth it. Those things don't worry too much about being partially damaged especially when they were getting 3-4 wounds back if alive.

Though one issue is that generally they ARE jumping around. There's plenty of terrain here so it's hard to get LOS to good targets. Game 1 I had 1 flyer and 1 wave serpent visible T1 for example. Game 2 was marked by jumping lootas from both sides. Game 3 I da jumped 2/3 turns(and then ran out of CP) to allow me to get LOS to riptide.

Well if you have 18 CPs investing 2 for More Dakka on lootas usually worths it.

Always an ammo runt for Badrukk

 Blackie wrote:
Well if you have 18 CPs investing 2 for More Dakka on lootas usually worths it.

Always an ammo runt for Badrukk

18 went up like in 2 turns this tournament...Game 1 I had little left on T3. Game 2 ditto. Game 3 I had least issues as boyz didn't tellyport and no more dakka on T1(firewarriors aren't targets the 16% more hits in average is worth it. Especially as I was trying to AVOID wiping out squads!!!) so still could fire 3 turns at full effect. Oh and was helped by never needing grot screen(did use ramming speed twice though) as the short edge table deployment was AWESOME for me. It was pretty unreal realizing the more distance orks had vs tau the BETTER it was as I was doing long range better than he was!

Orks eat CP's like sahara eats drop of rain.

And suggestions where to take 4 pts for ammo runt?

tneva82 wrote:

 Blackie wrote:


And suggestions where to take 4 pts for ammo runt?

Yeah, drop one power klaw from boyz mob and replace it with a big choppa.

That's not possible. The power klaw is quite clearly power klaw and not big choppa.

tneva82 wrote:
That's not possible. The power klaw is quite clearly power klaw and not big choppa.

You don't have another big choppa nob from a nobz squad you can nick it from?

You mean you don't have the model? What about a standard choppa nob?

Nope for either. I have 2 evil sun nobz. One with big choppa, one with power klaw.

BTW list got greenlight. Much to my surprise only the 3 weirdboys got any hickup but not lethal. Guess they would like less spamming but as I pointed out orks are really, really, really struggling with HQ choices and I'm going to sink through 18 CP and still not able to really power up everything to full strenght. I'm going to have to make hard choices on CP usage. Depending on deployments/who get first turn quite possible I have to da jump lootas AND seriously consider not using showing off especially if I use cp to reroll 1 from shots and not get 3 shots etc. We'll see. But I expect I want to use boyz have some CP as well and they eat 3 to begin with(2 for tellyport goffs, 1 for skarboyz).

I am wondering whether the ability to shoot twice is worth bringing a full 6-mob of killa kanz with my freeboota detachment.

I can invest 1Cp at the beginning of the game to bring the badskull banner and basically mitigate the Kanz morale issues (I find opponents tend to try and focus down 3-4 in a turn to wipe the rest with morale, using the banner I could basically remove that.)

The question is, is 2CP worth an extra 6 rokkit shots at BS4+? The alternate use I can come up with for the strat with Freebootas is waiting until after you trigger the kultur and popping it on something like a morkanaut or gorkanaut (neither of which I own models for) to get double shots at BS4+. You can of course combo it with More Dakka for even more shots.

I'm with Tneva with the interpretation that it is not stackable with showin' off.both say "may shoot a second time" rather than "an additional time" or "again."

the_scotsman wrote:
I am wondering whether the ability to shoot twice is worth bringing a full 6-mob of killa kanz with my freeboota detachment.

I can invest 1Cp at the beginning of the game to bring the badskull banner and basically mitigate the Kanz morale issues (I find opponents tend to try and focus down 3-4 in a turn to wipe the rest with morale, using the banner I could basically remove that.)

The question is, is 2CP worth an extra 6 rokkit shots at BS4+? The alternate use I can come up with for the strat with Freebootas is waiting until after you trigger the kultur and popping it on something like a morkanaut or gorkanaut (neither of which I own models for) to get double shots at BS4+. You can of course combo it with More Dakka for even more shots.

I'm with Tneva with the interpretation that it is not stackable with showin' off.both say "may shoot a second time" rather than "an additional time" or "again."

Are you talking about "kustom ammo"? Because I'm still not really buying the fact that the kanz can get that strat thrown on them, since they are GRETCHIN and it doesn't specifically mention that it works on them.

PiñaColada wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
I am wondering whether the ability to shoot twice is worth bringing a full 6-mob of killa kanz with my freeboota detachment.

I can invest 1Cp at the beginning of the game to bring the badskull banner and basically mitigate the Kanz morale issues (I find opponents tend to try and focus down 3-4 in a turn to wipe the rest with morale, using the banner I could basically remove that.)

The question is, is 2CP worth an extra 6 rokkit shots at BS4+? The alternate use I can come up with for the strat with Freebootas is waiting until after you trigger the kultur and popping it on something like a morkanaut or gorkanaut (neither of which I own models for) to get double shots at BS4+. You can of course combo it with More Dakka for even more shots.

I'm with Tneva with the interpretation that it is not stackable with showin' off.both say "may shoot a second time" rather than "an additional time" or "again."

Are you talking about "kustom ammo"? Because I'm still not really buying the fact that the kanz can get that strat thrown on them, since they are GRETCHIN and it doesn't specifically mention that it works on them.

You pay a CP to add the special "Dread mob" keyword to them, and it specifies "Dread Mob" unit - how much more specific can you get?

The stratagems from the Vigilus book aren't affected by the Grots rule because they aren't "Ork Stratagems".

I don't see how this is different than like "Get Stuck in Ladz" which only specifies Ork infantry. This new detachment gives them a keyword but doesn't explicitly state that it works on grots. In both scenarios all the stated keywords on the stratagem match but it doesn't work on option a so why would it work on option b?

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see it working on them.

Because the "Grots" rule in the codex only applies to "Ork Stratagems".

Stratagems from the Vigilus book are not "Ork stratagems" afaik.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Because the "Grots" rule in the codex only applies to "Ork Stratagems".

Stratagems from the Vigilus book are not "Ork stratagems" afaik.

Nope.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Because the "Grots" rule in the codex only applies to "Ork Stratagems".

Stratagems from the Vigilus book are not "Ork stratagems" afaik.

I guess that might be true.. Not sure if GW would FAQ this scenario but maybe they should, I would like if Kanz actually got to use strats but I'm unsure if GW meant for it to be a distinction here, so they might just FAQ it stating they can't.

PiñaColada wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Because the "Grots" rule in the codex only applies to "Ork Stratagems".

Stratagems from the Vigilus book are not "Ork stratagems" afaik.

I guess that might be true.. Not sure if GW would FAQ this scenario but maybe they should, I would like if Kanz actually got to use strats but I'm unsure if GW meant for it to be a distinction here, so they might just FAQ it stating they can't.

I think until they do I'll play it as though they can't, which is hilarious, because it means that kanz can benefit from the Dread mob detachment in exactly one, highly specific way: They can be repaired 1 point more with the warlord trait.

I might still consider dread waagh on a freeboota/bad moonz/deffskullz list featuring a morkanaut, since those things have relatively beefy firepower and shooting twice with More Dakka on might be a solid use of CPs for some antitank firepower. especially if youre a freeboota with the kultur popped.

the_scotsman wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Because the "Grots" rule in the codex only applies to "Ork Stratagems".

Stratagems from the Vigilus book are not "Ork stratagems" afaik.

I guess that might be true.. Not sure if GW would FAQ this scenario but maybe they should, I would like if Kanz actually got to use strats but I'm unsure if GW meant for it to be a distinction here, so they might just FAQ it stating they can't.

I think until they do I'll play it as though they can't, which is hilarious, because it means that kanz can benefit from the Dread mob detachment in exactly one, highly specific way: They can be repaired 1 point more with the warlord trait.

I might still consider dread waagh on a freeboota/bad moonz/deffskullz list featuring a morkanaut, since those things have relatively beefy firepower and shooting twice with More Dakka on might be a solid use of CPs for some antitank firepower. especially if youre a freeboota with the kultur popped.

If they clarify that the shooting twice strat works on Kanz then the detachment is a bit more interesting. As of right now, the morkanaut is probably the real target for the strat but the relic SAG might also be pretty fun if you like gambling. What's good about the detchment is that you can obviously use this in addition to showing off so there's a real chance for some crazy alpha strike potential here (even if it's soooo CP expensive)

I believe you can shot 3 times with a bad moons dread big mek. It's all about sequences. The bad moon trait happens when your unit fully resolves it's shooting attempt then you use the stratagem, kustom ammo allows you to flat out shoot twice will all guns.

It's Like getting multiple instances of +1 to hit, they stack? So why wouldn't kustom ammo and showing off? Ad mech can get 2 instances of +1 to hit from 2 different stratagems for kataphrons so they hit on a 2+.

That might be true, I just want to clarify that's not what I meant. I meant showing off on lootas in addition to kustom ammo on like a morkanaut.

Regarding shooting thrice I hope GW does a little FAQ on that as well

Even then I don't think it would he too powerful, even with Moar Dakka on top and reroll 1's it gets like 12.44 hits at str 7 on average? Which is like 7 damage on a 3++ knight all for 6cp...