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 Rismonite wrote:
While I was reading about Nob armies I was wondering if the Nob Biker star couldn't exsist some how again with the assistance of grot shields. As in, deploy behind some MSU grot squads, then on your first turn move forward, and tellyport a full 30 man grot squad into grot shield range again. You'd need a full compliment of Big Mek on Bike with KFF and Painboy on Bike to help get durability out of the 30 man grot screen for when the enemy inevitably decides to burry all their anti infantry shooting into them. But it might be a way to get a pretty scary squad of BikerNobz on the table again.

BZZZZ! That strategem works for infantry squads only. Ergo you try that and enemy will simply blow the bikers apart when the opponent points out you can't use it to your non-infantry unit.

Nice idea but alas illegal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 office_waaagh wrote:
The challenge with them is the same as with everything in the Ork army. Nothing we have is terribly impressive defensively so we have to rely on sheer numbers. Chances are any opponent will have a good source of high strength, high rate of fire, 2 damage weapons that will shred Nobz into wet, green confetti.

Too bad the cybork body is a) so limited b) ridiculously priced(I mean give me a break. 5 pts for 6+++? When marines gets 3++ for TWO POINTS?). The one thing it does help is specifically vs autocannon and the kind working effectively almost as 5++ as each wound has 30% chance of requiring another autocannon hit to finish off.

But with stormshields new price(seriously 2 pts for 3++? TWO POINTS?) there's basically no price for cybork body that makes sense. Even 1 pts is ridiculously overpriced. And 1 per 5(WHY?) just makes it worse.

I'd take cybork bodies for 1 point each, even if they're still 1 per 5. But that's the highest point cost I'd take them at. That was one of the upgrades I was sure it'd be changed for the better/ get cheaper in the codex since they were so obviously overpriced

Edit: It sure would be nice in MANZ could take them too, it would start to make up for the lack of an invuln. Assuming the cost of the upgrade goes way down that is.

Lack of invuln is not a main problem for meganobz, it was their main weakness in the past. Now most anti tank weapons are AP-3 so they still get a 5+ save, basically like the 5+ invuln that terminators have. Against AP-2, AP-1 or AP- they'd roll their armor save anyway. Unless we're talking about giving them 3++ or 4++.

A cybork body adds a 6+++ which is way better than a invuln since it stacks with the armor save. I haven't tried snakebites meganobz though, mostly because I dislike their lore.

PiñaColada wrote:
I'd take cybork bodies for 1 point each, even if they're still 1 per 5. But that's the highest point cost I'd take them at. That was one of the upgrades I was sure it'd be changed for the better/ get cheaper in the codex since they were so obviously overpriced

Edit: It sure would be nice in MANZ could take them too, it would start to make up for the lack of an invuln. Assuming the cost of the upgrade goes way down that is.

1 pts would still be ridiculous price compared to 3++ for just 1 pts more.

Biggest issue I have with 1 per 5 is HOW TO IDENTIFY the bloody buggers. Looking at squad I'm building. Power klaw+choppa, 3 big choppa+choppa and 6 choppa2. I would like 2 of the twin choppas to have it. How I'm supposed to identify them?

1 pts, whole squad takes them. That I could get behind eventhough it would still be overpriced but at least it would only be 1/model wasted and no worries about identifying specific models.

1 point per body is not as good as a 3++ for 2 points, for sure. But usually in a 2k list it all adds up to 1996 or something like that, so chucking those on for "free" is fine by me.

I identify my cyborks by having modded on some extra metal/tubes etc on either the arms or head. I haven't played them as cyborks for a while but they're easily identifiable. Or you could just pose those guys differently. Have them stand on rocks or whatever

 Blackie wrote:
Lack of invuln is not a main problem for meganobz, it was their main weakness in the past. Now most anti tank weapons are AP-3 so they still get a 5+ save, basically like the 5+ invuln that terminators have. Against AP-2, AP-1 or AP- they'd roll their armor save anyway. Unless we're talking about giving them 3++ or 4++.

You usually need those invulnerable saves to tank melee monsters nowadays. As long as you don't try to tank a daemon primarch or a knight, you should be fine. Most AP-4 anti-tank weapons also tend to be signle shot and d6 damage, so there is a chance of them simply failing to kill a nob due to doing one or two damage.

A cybork body adds a 6+++ which is way better than a invuln since it stacks with the armor save. I haven't tried snakebites meganobz though, mostly because I dislike their lore.

You could just have them run with a doc though. I'm still a huge fan of Mad Dok Grotznik, so if you are playing deff skullz he is a great backup for MANz or nobz.

I think i wanna try my Meganobz again, so cool and now i can teleport them in and charge. What are people doing with them? small distraction squad or like an anti knight team at like 20PL

 Dojo wrote:
I think i wanna try my Meganobz again, so cool and now i can teleport them in and charge. What are people doing with them? small distraction squad or like an anti knight team at like 20PL

Now we are teleporting them in and charging, exactly as you said

They are typically one element of a triple battalion list IMO, and probably the first or second element of a double battalion list. If you aren't fond of the Meganobz then the Deff Dreadz are probably your other flavor of Evil Sun deep strike melee dice.

Bad Moonz Lootabomm, Evil Sunz Tellyporta Meganobz (or Dreadz)), then Deffskull X component seems like a winrar

10 meganobz evil sunz on who you cast da jump and warpath. I really don’t see any other way of playing them. They are so expensive they need turn 1 action. For turn two action nobz are much better (ie transported or tellyported) I think

I hate deathstars and always avoid the massive investment on single units, so no 10 man meganobz for me, even if they're my favorite models and used to bring 15 in 7th edition . Lootas were an exception, but got already tired of playing the list centered around them, and I've already shelved them.

I usualy bring 5-6 stock meganobz deployed by tellyporta. Evil sunz or goffs, but I also tried them in a deathskulls brigade and the re-rolls make them powerful as the goffs ones. 6+++ and obj secured tipycally don't matter but still free bonuses that could be helpful sometimes. When goffs they usually get warpath and the banner nob aura.

I use them as a back up for my 3x vehicles with deff rollas full of boyz and joined by the biker boss. For the same amount of points invested in 6 meganobz you could field 12 nobz in a trukk with 2 ammo runts, this option competed with meganobz in many of my games but I love both solutions and I alternate them.

If you want a single unbuffed unit that does a lot of stuff on its own go for the 10 meganobz but find a way to clear screeners. Sometimes 40 shots (46-47 actually, since DDD) with the kustom shootas can be enough, most of the times they don't.

addnid wrote:
10 meganobz evil sunz on who you cast da jump and warpath. I really don’t see any other way of playing them. They are so expensive they need turn 1 action. For turn two action nobz are much better (ie transported or tellyported) I think

Problem with t1 jump is you will expose them to kill cheap chaff...

Hey guys, mind if I ask for some tactical guidance on my Orks? Winning games have never been priority number one for me, but I'm on this massive losing streak and I don't want to be a doormat. I run Freebooters, and the bulk of my points goes to footslogging boyz and MSU Flash gitz. I tend to take the Killchoppa (or gitstoppa shells. Not sure which is better for me since I don't tend to charge with my warboss until the boys have,) Badskull Banner and a Warphead with da jump (the other power varies). MY Warlord is a Warboss with the aforementioned Killchoppa/gitsoppa shells, and 'Follow Me, Ladz!' as his trait.

Now I usually go on the offensive with this loadout and play 1500 to 2000 point games, I charge up my mixed-weapon boyz/any Nobz i took and midway sometimes I da jump my Flash Gitz behind enemy lines and shoot the warlord/buffers to death, if applicable.

Again, I've never been worried or upset about losing, I just want to pose a challenge and be fun to play with, but I was hoping perhaps a change in my strategy could improve my odds.

 Lazzamore wrote:
Hey guys, mind if I ask for some tactical guidance on my Orks? Winning games have never been priority number one for me, but I'm on this massive losing streak and I don't want to be a doormat. I run Freebooters, and the bulk of my points goes to footslogging boyz and MSU Flash gitz. I tend to take the Killchoppa (or gitstoppa shells. Not sure which is better for me since I don't tend to charge with my warboss until the boys have,) Badskull Banner and a Warphead with da jump (the other power varies). MY Warlord is a Warboss with the aforementioned Killchoppa/gitsoppa shells, and 'Follow Me, Ladz!' as his trait.

Now I usually go on the offensive with this loadout and play 1500 to 2000 point games, I charge up my mixed-weapon boyz/any Nobz i took and midway sometimes I da jump my Flash Gitz behind enemy lines and shoot the warlord/buffers to death, if applicable.

Again, I've never been worried or upset about losing, I just want to pose a challenge and be fun to play with, but I was hoping perhaps a change in my strategy could improve my odds.

I definitely think it could. I wouldn't worry too much, there's plenty you can do to kick up your list from where you are without having to go purely tournament competitive or buy a bunch of new stuff.

I guess my questions to you would be:

-are you pretty much playing with your whole collection, or do you have other things in reserves you could swap in or out? Could you give me a rough idea of what you have?

-About how competitive would you say your play group is? is it mostly just a bunch of folks playing with their collections, or do a lot of players follow the current tournament type lists (lots of knights, dark eldar, lists with tons of different allies)

-how would you rank the following statements in terms of priority:

"I most want to keep my army to only the Freebootas kultur."

"I most want to keep the playstyle of my army - primarily on foot"

"I most want to keep playing with my favorite units and have them be good in the game."

Honestly, it sounds like there's plenty you can do differently either just keeping the same list, or slightly configuring it with the same models to be a bit more effective. So, just let us know what you'd want to change up! Without context of how much you want to change, most of the time you're just going to get advice like "take whatever is the current tournament list. Run that."

Also what kind of armies you generally face and what's giving you particularly hard time?

the_scotsman wrote:


1-"I most want to keep playing with my favorite units and have them be good in the game."

2-"I most want to keep my army to only the Freebootas kultur."

3-"I most want to keep the playstyle of my army - primarily on foot"

I organised the statements into priorities as you asked, and thanks for offering your help!

Im using most of my army. I take pretty much as many grots/boys as I have. I have tankbustas and perhaps a few more nobz I could take, and about 20 flash gits, though I usually take between 10-15. Vehicle wise, I have 7 killa kans I rarely take (I have yet to find out how to use them effectively), 2 Deff Dreads, 2 trucks, a battlewagon and about 6 koptas and one of those new Scrapjets. lately I've been trying to field more boys so that means I've taken fewer kans/wagons. Elites/HQ wise I could take 2 Painboys, a mini-mek and up to 3 extra warbosses (I recently bought someone else's collection).

My group is fairly down to earth, not necessarily 'tournament go-ers' I would say as they don't go out of there way to field tournament lists, though they tend to defeat me regularly (thus my question), and I wouldn't want to be too much of an 'easy win'.

EDIT (ninja'd):

tneva82 wrote:
Also what kind of armies you generally face and what's giving you particularly hard time?

Right now I'm in a narrative campaign and my toughest neighbors are Nurgle daemons, Guard and Space marines (the player likes to use different chapter tactics)

Well those killa kans you can pretty much forget. There's pretty much no way to field them efficiently so if you are losing a lot there's no point whatsoever giving handicap to begin with. Now if you were dominating your group those would be fun handicap but as it is...

I presume guard is typical gunline? Do they have much in form of serious counter charge unit that you would hate have charging into your units like big ogryn units? If not try to find ways to tripoint units. That is charge unit A but if there's unit nearby that's not tri-point immunized DON'T charge that unit(ie don't declare charge) but move 3 models close to one model that you can surround from 3 points. Then on pile in tag in. They will be able to attack you but that's all right, they are guards, and then you have 3 models in triangle formation over that model and he can't fall back and thus you will be 100% immune to shooting.

Same trick can work against gunline marines though they are more likely to have credible counter charge unit.

Nurgle daemons. Do they have several characters close to HUGE unit of plaguebearers? That makes that unit nearly invulnerable(I have had 60 boyz, 6 bikes and wartrike charge and while I killed 20+ one of the characters gave 2d6 pick lowest and if he rolls 1 rather than lose daemons to morale gets more...) so don't just rush in and charge that. You will likely not kill that unit and he counter charges at will. Hopefully he's not fielding blood letters as well for that purpose(that's nasty combo).

Against nurgle daemons they have very little shooting so as crazy as it might sound try initially stay back and soften the support units away before tackling the plaguebearer wall of invulnerable daemons(seriously that wall can be insanely tough. 60 boyz, 6 bikes and trike and I couldn't kill it in one round...)

Orks are pretty much dependant on strategems. How many CP's you generally field? I find anything less than 14 to be waaaay too little seeing how much orks eat them. Even basic boyz need those seeing they went worse from index without strategems.

Could you quickly write down what your last (or one your usual) list was?

Where do you normally have an issue? Is it the speed of the army itself? Anti-tank capabilities?

In regards to the other units you have, the battlewagon is quite good (especially as a bonebreka), the megatrakk is one of the good buggies and just a solid all rounder so both of those can be slotted into a force quite well..

A bonebreaka plus 10 nobz (and 2 runts) is a nifty little beatstick that isn't crazy expensive, and nobz are a very good target for the "Loot it" stratagem.

If it's anti-tank you lack then tankbustas are always solid but might be a big (well, big-ish) points sink if you want them in a trukk and then you can't use strats on them, they're real fragile otherwise though and might require some nifty maneuvering to keep alive. If you're looking for cheaper anti-tank (in points, not money I'm afraid) then the mek gunz are great. The traktor kannon and smasha gun are both really, really killy for their points but the KMK is still a beast IMO.

Edit: In regards to nurgle daemons. I find them to be the worst (as in most tedious army) I've ever played. That stupid un-killable tree makes them really fast and they're tough to kill. The unit stays at -1 for the phase even if they drop below 20. They're just a chore to play against. Lots of boyz should be able to chop 'em up in CC though..

Also, if you do get some mek gunz, remember that they work really well with the freeboota trait since <Gretchin> can't benefit from the trait but the can activate it for everyone else. So you'd just shoot those guns first and make the rest of the force stronger

In terms of mek guns good way to get them cheaper(in money) is use trukk kit in conjugation. With mek gun kit, trukk kit and some spare bits you can easily build one of each mek gun(albeit bubblechukka is of limited value). Makes it bit more easy to wallet if you aren't opposed to fielding 2-3 different types.

Have you guys seen the Looted wagon rules?

BoLS has an article up about it.
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2018/12/40k-breaking-ork-looted-wagon-rules-arrive.html

Shame something like the battle fortress didn't make it into the 'dex I feel..

 Lazzamore wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:


1-"I most want to keep playing with my favorite units and have them be good in the game."

2-"I most want to keep my army to only the Freebootas kultur."

3-"I most want to keep the playstyle of my army - primarily on foot"

I organised the statements into priorities as you asked, and thanks for offering your help!

Im using most of my army. I take pretty much as many grots/boys as I have. I have tankbustas and perhaps a few more nobz I could take, and about 20 flash gits, though I usually take between 10-15. Vehicle wise, I have 7 killa kans I rarely take (I have yet to find out how to use them effectively), 2 Deff Dreads, 2 trucks, a battlewagon and about 6 koptas and one of those new Scrapjets. lately I've been trying to field more boys so that means I've taken fewer kans/wagons. Elites/HQ wise I could take 2 Painboys, a mini-mek and up to 3 extra warbosses (I recently bought someone else's collection).

My group is fairly down to earth, not necessarily 'tournament go-ers' I would say as they don't go out of there way to field tournament lists, though they tend to defeat me regularly (thus my question), and I wouldn't want to be too much of an 'easy win'.

EDIT (ninja'd):

tneva82 wrote:
Also what kind of armies you generally face and what's giving you particularly hard time?

Right now I'm in a narrative campaign and my toughest neighbors are Nurgle daemons, Guard and Space marines (the player likes to use different chapter tactics)

Well, the way I would set it up would be this:

Freeborn battalion. Add a 1cp detachment if you need more heavy slots. Freebootas are pretty not CP thirsty.

I'd go with Something like the following:


Battalion, brigade. Both Freebootas.

Warboss with Da Killa Klaw and Brutal But Kunnin Trait
Weird boy with Da Jump

30x shoot boyz, klaw nob
10x gretchin
10x gretchin

Scrapjet
2 individual koptas with rokkit

5x nobs
5x tankbustas 2 squig

2 trukk

1 battlewagon with Deff Rolla
5x Flash Gits

Spearhead

Warboss with headwhoppas kill choppy

5x flash gits
5x flash gits
5x flash gits

2x Deff copt
2x ddeffcopta

Gretchin start in front with the boyz to got shield if you lose turn 1. 2 git squads per truck. Nobz busts bosses and weird boy in the wagon helps you minimize drops. Your goal is to jump the boys into the enemy turn 1 if you need to, if the enemy comes to you, jump a unit of gits or nobz.

Your goal each round is to pop the smallest/most wounded vehicle in the smallest number of rokkit possible, then lay in with the gits/shootas as soon as you can. The boyz are primarily there as a turn 1 distraction, jump them in and charge if possible. The real melee threat is the nobs, bosses and Deff Rolla.

PiñaColada wrote:
Have you guys seen the Looted wagon rules?

BoLS has an article up about it.
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2018/12/40k-breaking-ork-looted-wagon-rules-arrive.html

Shame something like the battle fortress didn't make it into the 'dex I feel..

Depends on pricing but I assume that they will be priced similar to the imperium versions which makes them pretty bad. Wagons with tons of add guns seems cool but the cost of our weapons ultimately makes everything too expensive, unless the chasis is dirt cheap which I doubt.

BS 5+ kinda hurts but if you put enough guns on a fortress and drop shoot twice and dakka on it you might get some value out of it.

 Dr.Duck wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:
Have you guys seen the Looted wagon rules?

BoLS has an article up about it.
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2018/12/40k-breaking-ork-looted-wagon-rules-arrive.html

Shame something like the battle fortress didn't make it into the 'dex I feel..

Depends on pricing but I assume that they will be priced similar to the imperium versions which makes them pretty bad. Wagons with tons of add guns seems cool but the cost of our weapons ultimately makes everything too expensive, unless the chasis is dirt cheap which I doubt.

BS 5+ kinda hurts but if you put enough guns on a fortress and drop shoot twice and dakka on it you might get some value out of it.

They are only power level.

Isn’t Looted wagons power level only? There is no price it’s a narrative/open play game thing. You can put a hundred guns on it with power level and it doesn’t matter.

As such though looted wagons are useless to most players.

Oh then its extra garbage

The looted vehicles seems really fun. Shame gw could not be bothered to give them points values. Still this is just more incentive to go narrative instead of match play

tneva82 wrote:

addnid wrote:
10 meganobz evil sunz on who you cast da jump and warpath. I really don’t see any other way of playing them. They are so expensive they need turn 1 action. For turn two action nobz are much better (ie transported or tellyported) I think

Problem with t1 jump is you will expose them to kill cheap chaff...

Oh yes they won’t do much more than clear screens turn 1. But they will be there right up your opponents face, and so will be your deffkilla wartrike, your bonebreakas, etc. It’s a threat overload thing IMHO.
If your list is not a « rush » list then no,that 10 meganobz unit is not worth it. Perhaps they can work as it was said by 5-6 and you can use them as goal keepers with a banner nearby (Goff meganobz with a banner must really wreck faces !) or tellyport them if you're up against a gunline, but I am slightly doubtful of the investment

Looking through the new CA I saw that the Supa-kannon in the FW section is now 30 points and I got all excited before I realised it was 30 points in the Index Xenos anyways so I'm not sure what happened there. Then I got all sad because I really want that supa-kannon on a gunwagon. I'd pay real points for that damnit!

In regards to MANZ, I tried putting 5 with saws in a bonebreaka with a mini-mek, a grot oiler and rezmekkas redder armour. It worked really well but I've only tried it the one game

tneva82 wrote:
Also what kind of armies you generally face and what's giving you particularly hard time?

I usually play against Death Guard, Space Marines... They have not enough dakka to stop my army and I usually win turn 3 (when I charge with everything).

I've had a hard time against Imperial Guard.

When the time to charge comes, I already lost a lot of army, if he distributes well his tanks arround the table, my tankbustas cannot reach everyone of them, so he has free shoots. My boyz/nobz can kill an entire unit with a swing, but he has tons of units so I end losing more miniatures than them. I think the only way to play against imperial guard is to DaJump and charge like crazy from all angles, staying as much as posible in close combat

Well, with the weapon lists it shouldn't be too hard to derive point costs if your group is ok with allowing it.

We know pl is median cost of unit (average of least expensive and most expensive wargear configuratoon) *20.

Kart: 100pts median.

Base weapon 5pts
Most expensive 44pts
24pts median, so the base cost is 76.

Wagon: 220pt median

Base 5
Most expensive 74

39 median, 171 base cost.

The battle fortress is harder because we don't know the cost of the deffcannon and Supa gatler unless those are existing forge world weapons? Average seems to be 580, about in line with a bane blade.

The deffkannon (the stock option on a kustom stompa) is 0 points in FW Index Xenos and the mega-gatler is a new 'un as far as I know.

I'm just sad that Orks don't have a baneblade type chassis in the codex, the Kill Tank from FW sort of fits the bill but it needs an updated points cost IMO