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Has anyone tried an airwing of either 3 wazbom blastajets or 2 of them and a dakkajet? I hate trying to fit things inside the 9" KFF bubble but getting 2 or 3 should make that a lot easier. Is it just a waste of points?

Because the wazboms themselves aren't bad, but they're not fantastic either looking at their datasheets. However I don't own even one so I'm just guessing. Other than the KFF, do they do work for you guys?

Problem with that KFF is it's basically 1 turn wonder. Then minimum move gets you off the things you cover

I mean I play speed freeks so the only thing I have in the backfield are some grots and a singular SAG big mek. The rest moves upfield (and should be able to keep up).

I basically want something that counteracts the plasma weapons just melting my bikes/buggies/bonebreakas. But my army has a footprint too large to fit inside a 9" bubble, however 2 of them might work. 3 easily would, is it worth the points though?

Instead of investing in protection like KFF's or painboys better just take more of everything you want to protect. That way you have more flexibilty. The Dakkajet is quite nice btw so that's not a loss to include in your army.

I get what you mean, but the amount of plasma spam I've had to endure post CA is starting to become annoying. Those 320-360 points that you're investing in wazboms could be spent elsewhere for getting more stuff but a 5++ on the entire army is pretty good when the normal save is a 4+. Also it's not like the planes have awful armaments.

The dakkajet I like, I already own one of those. But surely we have some players that are using/have used the wazboms post codex?

The Wazbom Blastajet seems pretty useable, ridiculous name aside, but you'll probably only get the benefit of it's KFF on turn one and then again in a later turn if it's alive and your vehicles are still bunched together as a result of it's high minimum move. A Big Mek on Warbike with KFF would serve your ground vehicles better but if Index isn't available to you a Da Jumping foot Mek might work but wouldn't be particularly great. The Wazbom's KFF seems better suited to protecting your vehicles on turn one or protecting a Flyer Wing although it can be difficult to keep three flyers close to each other for multiple turns.

Ultimately KFFs are awkward to get the most out of because they limit your movements so much and games are won or lost in the movement phase. Mostly I'lll only take them on Big Meks if I need a fifth or sixth HQ because you can 'only' have three Weirdboys and usually you only really need one Warboss.

Well I'm not using Index so the obvious alternative isn't an option. Normally I get the complaint about the wazbom KFF, they're too fast to really work, but since my entire army is zooming up the board I'm thinking it might just work, having two of them would mean that spacing on the board shouldn't be a real issue. I think I'll try it out at some point in the near future. Might be a disaster but I want to try and switch up my force every now and then

Question: If I have a unit of bikes that aren't wholly within either one of the wazboms KFFs but wholly within a KFF field if I'm allowed to count them both, is that allowed? Basically does multiple KFF fields count as different entities or are they all counted as a KFF? I'm guessing they won't overlap..

They are within KFF. Nowhere does i say you HAVE to be within SAME kff.

why on earth protective field not protect you because you happen to be partially inside another bubble?-)

Logically speaking, of course it should work. But the wording on the KFF on the wazbom makes me uncertain..

"If this model is equipped with a kustom force feld, friendly ORK units have a 5+ invulnerable save against attacks made with ranged weapons while they are wholly within 9" of it."

I guess it depends on if the mean the plane or the KFF when they say "it". I don't know, I just don't want to accidentally cheat or anything

 Geemoney wrote:


I don't really see why you would want min squad of kommandos....

I use kommandos mostly to appear in later turns and sit on an objective. Sometimes to harass some long range shooters. IMHO 15 8ppm orks with natural deep strike aren't worthy, unless maybe they're evil sunz and can charge after deep striking with very high odds.

Havnt really kept up the last few months. Is the 30 grots, 90 boyz 25 lootas list still the "meta" list?

 Blackie wrote:

 Geemoney wrote:


I don't really see why you would want min squad of kommandos....

I use kommandos mostly to appear in later turns and sit on an objective. Sometimes to harass some long range shooters. IMHO 15 8ppm orks with natural deep strike aren't worthy, unless maybe they're evil sunz and can charge after deep striking with very high odds.

The 5 are more than able to hold empty objective. And not totally useless in combat. Ig inf squad? If you make the charge you will in average take objective from them while being cheap enough dealing 6 t4 wounds annoys opponent

PiñaColada wrote:
Well I'm not using Index so the obvious alternative isn't an option. Normally I get the complaint about the wazbom KFF, they're too fast to really work, but since my entire army is zooming up the board I'm thinking it might just work, having two of them would mean that spacing on the board shouldn't be a real issue. I think I'll try it out at some point in the near future. Might be a disaster but I want to try and switch up my force every now and then

Question: If I have a unit of bikes that aren't wholly within either one of the wazboms KFFs but wholly within a KFF field if I'm allowed to count them both, is that allowed? Basically does multiple KFF fields count as different entities or are they all counted as a KFF? I'm guessing they won't overlap..

Pina are you charging T1 with those bikes? The KFF doesn't work in melee so if you're charging T1 you might not get much use out of the Wazzbomb compared to say, a standard KFF MA/Big Mek who can protect your bikers if you don't get first turn (and fill those HQ slots).

A better solution, I have found, if your concern is the unit you charge T1 leaves combat/gets wiped and your bikes get obliterated by the opponent's other units, is to take the Vigilus detachment and use the stratagem to consolidate d6. Get stuck into those unit that would try to kill you and deny them shooting.

 Billagio wrote:
Havnt really kept up the last few months. Is the 30 grots, 90 boyz 25 lootas list still the "meta" list?

If you want to do the Loota bomb I'd up the Grots to about 60. It seems the lists that can take the Lootas out turn one are perfectly capable knocking over 30 grots and then 25 Lootas. There is also some speculation that 25 Lootas still just isn't enough to take down Knights *shrug* I don't play knights.. no idea.

I've actually moved away from Loota Bombs. I still field 15, but I don't like putting all my eggs in one basket, so I've been fielding them alongside a half-dozen Smashas/Traktorz (2 to 1). 15 Lootas are easier to keep alive than 25, for some reason.

 Rismonite wrote:

 Billagio wrote:
Havnt really kept up the last few months. Is the 30 grots, 90 boyz 25 lootas list still the "meta" list?

If you want to do the Loota bomb I'd up the Grots to about 60. It seems the lists that can take the Lootas out turn one are perfectly capable knocking over 30 grots and then 25 Lootas. There is also some speculation that 25 Lootas still just isn't enough to take down Knights *shrug* I don't play knights.. no idea.

There's not even the need to kill 30 gretchins to get the lootas, grots shield only works under some circumstances which are dependant to the gretchins positions. The opponent just needs to kill some of them to get to the lootas. With 25 lootas 60 gretchins is the minimum to protect them, tipycally you'd want even more. I used to screen the lootas with 30 boyz, then 60 gretchins. Those boyz weren't wasted as enemy deep strikers always arrived near the lootas bomb and they could always be jumped by the weirdboy in turns 3+ if they needed to be elsewhere. I had 2-3 full other mobs of boyz that could be jumped before.

25 lootas won't kill a castellan even investing 6 CPs per turn on them. Maybe a less efficient knight, but they're not optimal to target T8.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 flandarz wrote:
I've actually moved away from Loota Bombs. I still field 15, but I don't like putting all my eggs in one basket, so I've been fielding them alongside a half-dozen Smashas/Traktorz (2 to 1). 15 Lootas are easier to keep alive than 25, for some reason.

Mee too. I prefer 15 lootas and 30 screening gretchins than the full loota bomb. This allows me to field more flexible lists; in fact at 2000 points I'm pairing that bad moons battallion with a death skulls brigade.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:
Well I'm not using Index so the obvious alternative isn't an option. Normally I get the complaint about the wazbom KFF, they're too fast to really work, but since my entire army is zooming up the board I'm thinking it might just work, having two of them would mean that spacing on the board shouldn't be a real issue. I think I'll try it out at some point in the near future. Might be a disaster but I want to try and switch up my force every now and then

Question: If I have a unit of bikes that aren't wholly within either one of the wazboms KFFs but wholly within a KFF field if I'm allowed to count them both, is that allowed? Basically does multiple KFF fields count as different entities or are they all counted as a KFF? I'm guessing they won't overlap..

Pina are you charging T1 with those bikes? The KFF doesn't work in melee so if you're charging T1 you might not get much use out of the Wazzbomb compared to say, a standard KFF MA/Big Mek who can protect your bikers if you don't get first turn (and fill those HQ slots).

A better solution, I have found, if your concern is the unit you charge T1 leaves combat/gets wiped and your bikes get obliterated by the opponent's other units, is to take the Vigilus detachment and use the stratagem to consolidate d6. Get stuck into those unit that would try to kill you and deny them shooting.

I might have to look into that but I'm already so CP starved that it's tough. Also, most times my bikes aren't wiping out everything they charged so that consolidation probably wouldn't help, but I'll look into it.

Overall the idea is T1 charges for the bikes (and maybe a bonebreaka as well) but if I don't get T1/the distance is too great/I wipe out whatever I charged then everything in the army is just so open to plasma spam. An IG tank commander with 2d3 shots plasma, plus 2d6 shots plasma (where both d6's are rerollable), plus a lascannon and a hunter killer missile is 203 points. He's hitting on 3's, rerolling 1's. Those things melt everything I have, almost a guarantee I'm not charging them T1 so some sort of resilience would be nice. Just being able to tank a couple of hits with the bonebreakas also help immensively since they degrade pretty hard..

The KFF aura rules are gonna make it tough to keep your units inside the bubble, unfortunately. You might be better off going with Deathskullz or Snakebitez (I prefer the former). Sure, it ain't a 5++, and you lose some speed from dropping Evil Sunz, but it'll really increase your survivability. And it ain't like Bikerz or Bonebreakers are slow, even without Evil Sunz.

 Rismonite wrote:

 Billagio wrote:
Havnt really kept up the last few months. Is the 30 grots, 90 boyz 25 lootas list still the "meta" list?

If you want to do the Loota bomb I'd up the Grots to about 60. It seems the lists that can take the Lootas out turn one are perfectly capable knocking over 30 grots and then 25 Lootas. There is also some speculation that 25 Lootas still just isn't enough to take down Knights *shrug* I don't play knights.. no idea.

And if you are unlucky enough to face something like twin repulsor 60 grots and 15 lootas is just the start. I faced that, lost those and 20 grot and 11 boyz more.

30 is also hard to protect from 360 degrees without being in 1 unit. And h2h units able to t1charge will ignore 3x10 fairly easily.

60 is not exaggeration and more can be valid. Especially as you aan easily need to cover 2 places to have place to go to get los

tneva82 wrote:

 Rismonite wrote:

 Billagio wrote:
Havnt really kept up the last few months. Is the 30 grots, 90 boyz 25 lootas list still the "meta" list?

If you want to do the Loota bomb I'd up the Grots to about 60. It seems the lists that can take the Lootas out turn one are perfectly capable knocking over 30 grots and then 25 Lootas. There is also some speculation that 25 Lootas still just isn't enough to take down Knights *shrug* I don't play knights.. no idea.

And if you are unlucky enough to face something like twin repulsor 60 grots and 15 lootas is just the start. I faced that, lost those and 20 grot and 11 boyz more.

30 is also hard to protect from 360 degrees without being in 1 unit. And h2h units able to t1charge will ignore 3x10 fairly easily.

60 is not exaggeration and more can be valid. Especially as you aan easily need to cover 2 places to have place to go to get los

How did he manage that? Any competitive twin repulsor list I've seen runs only one dakka respulsor and wouldn't have nearly enough dakka from other sources to do that much damage. Sounds like whoever you were playing was being a douche and tailored their whole list to stomp yours.

 flandarz wrote:
The KFF aura rules are gonna make it tough to keep your units inside the bubble, unfortunately.

You only need it for turn 1. KFF is a must if youre going mechanised.

 flandarz wrote:
You might be better off going with Deathskullz or Snakebitez (I prefer the former). Sure, it ain't a 5++, and you lose some speed from dropping Evil Sunz, but it'll really increase your survivability.

Except it's half the survivability that a KFF grants you. 5++ is twice as good as a 6++, and even better vs snakebites trait considering all the multi wound damage that you'll be facing.

 flandarz wrote:
And it ain't like Bikerz or Bonebreakers are slow, even without Evil Sunz.

Play to their strengths. Just go Evil Sunz.

 flaming tadpole wrote:
Sounds like whoever you were playing was being a douche and tailored their whole list to stomp yours.

Ork loota list is a strong list at the moment. You're damn right people are going to be trying out things to beat this list as it's a list to beat. In the same way that in this thread people are figuring out what our b est answer to knights is, other people will be looking for the best answer to chew tthrough 60 grots and 25 lootas is. This doesn't make them dicks.

 flandarz wrote:
The KFF aura rules are gonna make it tough to keep your units inside the bubble, unfortunately. You might be better off going with Deathskullz or Snakebitez (I prefer the former). Sure, it ain't a 5++, and you lose some speed from dropping Evil Sunz, but it'll really increase your survivability. And it ain't like Bikerz or Bonebreakers are slow, even without Evil Sunz.

Well, I'm not using index options and I'm mono evil sunz all the way. I do realize that I'm somewhat painting myself into a corner by doing that.. I will say that I find bikes to be pretty bad as anything other than ES though.

The point I keep trying to come back to though, has anyone tried to play two wazboms in a list? The KFF field they'd bring is huge, and my army is easily fast enough to keep up so they should have a 5++ against shooting most of the game. My meta is almost all shooting so that's what I need protection from. 320/360 points is a significant investment but those planes bring a decent amount of dakka as well.

Ork loota list is a strong list at the moment. You're damn right people are going to be trying out things to beat this list as it's a list to beat. In the same way that in this thread people are figuring out what our b est answer to knights is, other people will be looking for the best answer to chew tthrough 60 grots and 25 lootas is. This doesn't make them dicks.

If it was a friendly game it does. If I'm doing a pickup game with some dude that I know is running a Custodes biker spam I could just bring nothing but lootas and smash gunz and end the game in the first turn of shooting, but what exactly would be the point of playing the game in the first place then? Plus if that guy brought a list with that absurd amounts of anti horde to a GT he may very well be able to destroy the all of 2-3 ork players that are there if he gets lucky enough to match up against one, but then he's gonna get absolutely obliterated by 90% of the other armies there.

 flaming tadpole wrote:

Ork loota list is a strong list at the moment. You're damn right people are going to be trying out things to beat this list as it's a list to beat. In the same way that in this thread people are figuring out what our b est answer to knights is, other people will be looking for the best answer to chew tthrough 60 grots and 25 lootas is. This doesn't make them dicks.

If it was a friendly game it does. If I'm doing a pickup game with some dude that I know is running a Custodes biker spam I could just bring nothing but lootas and smash gunz and end the game in the first turn of shooting, but what exactly would be the point of playing the game in the first place then? Plus if that guy brought a list with that absurd amounts of anti horde to a GT he may very well be able to destroy the all of 2-3 ork players that are there if he gets lucky enough to match up against one, but then he's gonna get absolutely obliterated by 90% of the other armies there.

90% of statistics are bollocks.

 flaming tadpole wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Rismonite wrote:

 Billagio wrote:
Havnt really kept up the last few months. Is the 30 grots, 90 boyz 25 lootas list still the "meta" list?

If you want to do the Loota bomb I'd up the Grots to about 60. It seems the lists that can take the Lootas out turn one are perfectly capable knocking over 30 grots and then 25 Lootas. There is also some speculation that 25 Lootas still just isn't enough to take down Knights *shrug* I don't play knights.. no idea.

And if you are unlucky enough to face something like twin repulsor 60 grots and 15 lootas is just the start. I faced that, lost those and 20 grot and 11 boyz more.

30 is also hard to protect from 360 degrees without being in 1 unit. And h2h units able to t1charge will ignore 3x10 fairly easily.

60 is not exaggeration and more can be valid. Especially as you aan easily need to cover 2 places to have place to go to get los

How did he manage that? Any competitive twin repulsor list I've seen runs only one dakka respulsor and wouldn't have nearly enough dakka from other sources to do that much damage. Sounds like whoever you were playing was being a douche and tailored their whole list to stomp yours.

Twin dakka, some jump packers, basic bolter marines, tons of rerolls.

Not sure how tailoring vs me it was seeing it was 16 player tournament. Odds of facing specifically me is not that big


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 flaming tadpole wrote:

Ork loota list is a strong list at the moment. You're damn right people are going to be trying out things to beat this list as it's a list to beat. In the same way that in this thread people are figuring out what our b est answer to knights is, other people will be looking for the best answer to chew tthrough 60 grots and 25 lootas is. This doesn't make them dicks.

If it was a friendly game it does. If I'm doing a pickup game with some dude that I know is running a Custodes biker spam I could just bring nothing but lootas and smash gunz and end the game in the first turn of shooting, but what exactly would be the point of playing the game in the first place then? Plus if that guy brought a list with that absurd amounts of anti horde to a GT he may very well be able to destroy the all of 2-3 ork players that are there if he gets lucky enough to match up against one, but then he's gonna get absolutely obliterated by 90% of the other armies there.

Those bikes here would hide behind los until time to attack vs all that static guns.

 flaming tadpole wrote:

Ork loota list is a strong list at the moment. You're damn right people are going to be trying out things to beat this list as it's a list to beat. In the same way that in this thread people are figuring out what our b est answer to knights is, other people will be looking for the best answer to chew tthrough 60 grots and 25 lootas is. This doesn't make them dicks.

If it was a friendly game it does. If I'm doing a pickup game with some dude that I know is running a Custodes biker spam I could just bring nothing but lootas and smash gunz and end the game in the first turn of shooting, but what exactly would be the point of playing the game in the first place then? Plus if that guy brought a list with that absurd amounts of anti horde to a GT he may very well be able to destroy the all of 2-3 ork players that are there if he gets lucky enough to match up against one, but then he's gonna get absolutely obliterated by 90% of the other armies there.

Tons of anti infantry would be very appropriate also against other top tier armies, like aeldari. But also tyranids and some chaos lists. It's just the imperium soup that requires you to bring lots of anti tank.

One of the reason why aeldari do so well in tournaments is that they laugh at S8+ weapons, but they can suffer terribly from lists with massive S4-5-6-7 shots.

 Sluggaloo wrote:

 flandarz wrote:
The KFF aura rules are gonna make it tough to keep your units inside the bubble, unfortunately.

You only need it for turn 1. KFF is a must if youre going mechanised.

 flandarz wrote:
You might be better off going with Deathskullz or Snakebitez (I prefer the former). Sure, it ain't a 5++, and you lose some speed from dropping Evil Sunz, but it'll really increase your survivability.

Except it's half the survivability that a KFF grants you. 5++ is twice as good as a 6++, and even better vs snakebites trait considering all the multi wound damage that you'll be facing.

 flandarz wrote:
And it ain't like Bikerz or Bonebreakers are slow, even without Evil Sunz.

Play to their strengths. Just go Evil Sunz.

I think you missed the part where they specifically said that they was looking for Protection after T1. My suggestion was for that. Yeah, sure, if you only want an invuln for a single firing phase then I guess stick with Sunz and bring a KFF. As I said, it's gonna be hard to keep an army inside a 9" bubble after your first movement phase.

@Pina: if you've painted yourself into a corner, absolutely must have an Invuln after T1, and will never shift from Evil Sunz, then what you said is basically your only option. Either Biker Mekz, or Wazboms. And some careful moving up the board. But I do think you're limiting yourself a bit more than you need to.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also: wait... your opponent wiped out over 100 models of Orkz *without* a horde optimized list?! I gotta say, tneva, your local meta scares me.

So...I may have broken my local DA player and made him think that not only Orkz but specifically Deff Koptas are OP as all hell.

Turn 2 he had his deathwing show up (10 terminators) and ugh.....I may have dropped 6 Bombs on him from 2 units of 3 Deff Koptas and incinerated the whole lot of them

BTW in no way shape or form are deff koptas competitive, this was a strictly for fun game and my deff Koptas actually did something. I didn't even need all the bombs because my first two bombs resulted in nothing but 5s and 6s

Well not broken neccessarilly but stupid and illogical. 100% free upgrade with no downside? Woot? (another equally silly is tank busta bombs in boyz squads. Modeling for win. If you have models you gain free bonus! Fun if none of your original 240 boyz had one...).

Sorry but that's particular pet peeve of mine.

tneva82 wrote:
Well not broken neccessarilly but stupid and illogical. 100% free upgrade with no downside? Woot? (another equally silly is tank busta bombs in boyz squads. Modeling for win. If you have models you gain free bonus! Fun if none of your original 240 boyz had one...).

Sorry but that's particular pet peeve of mine.

The boyz kit comes with one...and they are still cheap on ebay. And you are an ork. Use any remotely bomb-shaped bit and you're good. Just paint it a different color than your scheme and everyone will know what it is...or if not, tell them.

For the last match I played, I had a few extra and I just tied them on with thread. EZPZ.