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 JimOnMars wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Well not broken neccessarilly but stupid and illogical. 100% free upgrade with no downside? Woot? (another equally silly is tank busta bombs in boyz squads. Modeling for win. If you have models you gain free bonus! Fun if none of your original 240 boyz had one...).

Sorry but that's particular pet peeve of mine.

The boyz kit comes with one...and they are still cheap on ebay. And you are an ork. Use any remotely bomb-shaped bit and you're good. Just paint it a different color than your scheme and everyone will know what it is...or if not, tell them.

For the last match I played, I had a few extra and I just tied them on with thread. EZPZ.

Boyz kit come with one. So are you supposed to buy 24 new boxes to give your 240 orks those bombs? I'm sure GW would love that. My wallet less so. With 7ppm boyz I don't need 480 boyz even with different clans.

tneva82 wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Well not broken neccessarilly but stupid and illogical. 100% free upgrade with no downside? Woot? (another equally silly is tank busta bombs in boyz squads. Modeling for win. If you have models you gain free bonus! Fun if none of your original 240 boyz had one...).

Sorry but that's particular pet peeve of mine.

The boyz kit comes with one...and they are still cheap on ebay. And you are an ork. Use any remotely bomb-shaped bit and you're good. Just paint it a different color than your scheme and everyone will know what it is...or if not, tell them.

For the last match I played, I had a few extra and I just tied them on with thread. EZPZ.

Boyz kit come with one. So are you supposed to buy 24 new boxes to give your 240 orks those bombs? I'm sure GW would love that. My wallet less so. With 7ppm boyz I don't need 480 boyz even with different clans.

Buying incomplete kits is always a risk. What if you bought some marines but none had a plasma gun? And then later (because the rules changed) you now want the plasma gun...you buy it, right?

If you bought those 240 boyz for less than the discount price of $600, you got a screaming deal, right? Why would you be upset that now you might have to shell out $24 to get a more complete kit?

It's not even buying incomplete kits but simply not having put them when you bought because there was NO NEED FOR THEM.

Before those pieces were 100% useless. Only now suddenly they came to use and in stupid way. Free upgrades with no downside is plain WRONG. That goes against whole point of points. How would you think marines getting free power fist for their squads? Free bonus if you model it. Exactly same as free tank busta bombs.

The tank busta bombs shouldn't be free upgrade with no downside. Either have big enough disadvantage that it's balanced whether you take it or not or have points on them.

tneva82 wrote:
It's not even buying incomplete kits but simply not having put them when you bought because there was NO NEED FOR THEM.

Before those pieces were 100% useless. Only now suddenly they came to use and in stupid way. Free upgrades with no downside is plain WRONG. That goes against whole point of points. How would you think marines getting free power fist for their squads? Free bonus if you model it. Exactly same as free tank busta bombs.

The tank busta bombs shouldn't be free upgrade with no downside. Either have big enough disadvantage that it's balanced whether you take it or not or have points on them.

What do you mean now downside? They went up a whole point to compensate.

You seem very, very angry about this.

I'm usually quite strict on WYSIWYG but 0 points weapons and upgrades don't really count.

It's perfectly fine if boyz are played with a tankbusta bomb every 10 models even without having the right bitz glued on the right number of them.

Power fist is a specific and iconic weapon that requires the appropriate bitz instead. Like power klaws or big choppas. The single free bomb doesn't make any significant difference in the long run. Those melee weapons do instead, that's why they're not free upgrades.

And to be honest they're not even free, boyz got a price hike basically only for adding that bomb in their standard equipment. Welcome to the new GW trend that aims to standardize every kit cutting options and imposing mandatory wargear.

The kopta bomb is a different thing though because it's index only and index kopta's price was definitely designed to factor the bomb in. Now koptas are half cheaper with no bomb. That's the issue of mixing index and codex, especially those units that are included in both books but have different profiles or options.

tneva82 wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Well not broken neccessarilly but stupid and illogical. 100% free upgrade with no downside? Woot? (another equally silly is tank busta bombs in boyz squads. Modeling for win. If you have models you gain free bonus! Fun if none of your original 240 boyz had one...).

Sorry but that's particular pet peeve of mine.

The boyz kit comes with one...and they are still cheap on ebay. And you are an ork. Use any remotely bomb-shaped bit and you're good. Just paint it a different color than your scheme and everyone will know what it is...or if not, tell them.

For the last match I played, I had a few extra and I just tied them on with thread. EZPZ.

Boyz kit come with one. So are you supposed to buy 24 new boxes to give your 240 orks those bombs? I'm sure GW would love that. My wallet less so. With 7ppm boyz I don't need 480 boyz even with different clans.

Boyz kit comes with 2, but I understand it's tough. It is a pretty minor buff though, could you consider playing without it? I'm sure it would not really affect most games you play.

I feel like quite a few of us probably already had tankbusta bombs on our boyz, at least I did. I had done it just for modeling variety's sake, but that they snag those bombs from dead tankbustas seemed like a logical thing as well.

But surely you have those bits if you already assembled all those boyz Tneva? I just assume as an ork player that you don't throw away your unused bits. Even if you did then I feel like there could be plenty of substitutes for tankbusta bombs like; several of those stikkbomb bundles tied together, the rokkit from a rokkit launcha, melta bombs etc. As long as it's a bomb of some sort it shouldn't really matter.

I'm sort of on the same page as you when it comes to free upgrades, it's weird when you get auto-take options. But at what price would you have added them otherwise, 1-2 points? Also we're all obviously okay with the nob being a free upgrade even though he's worth 2 boyz.

Interesting point about the tankbustabombs. I've never thought about modelling a boy with one of these to make him stand out (don't use boys very often anyhow).

Played three 1000 pts games yesterday against an Ork Walker-wall and Green tide. My Freebootaz list was composed of: Souped-up-SAG/ Badrukk / Gretchin / Tankbusta's in Chinork/ 2x Boosta Blasta/ Gitz in trukk / 3x smasha. The Freebootaz were utterly brutal and I had to promiss my opponetn not to use this list again in the future. First game against the walkers lasted 2 turns. The 2nd game against Greentide he gave up before taking his first turn when his lootas and one of the big mobs were wrecked. Only when he got first turn and a first turn charge the game was interesting and I lost (not being able to use my Gitz and Mek guns) but not even by a big margin.

Hmmmm. anybody else experiencing this with Freebootaz lists?

I was hoping to get some input on my ork list for an upcoming tournament. What do you guys think? I'm playing against tau, imperial guard, and space wolves.


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [70 PL, 1133pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Evil Sunz

Extra Gubbins (1/3 CP): 1 Extra Shiny Gubbins (1 CP)

+ HQ +

Deffkilla Wartrike [6 PL, 120pts]: Super Cybork Body

Warboss on Warbike (index) [5 PL, 99pts]: Attack Squig, Da Killa Klaw, Power Klaw, Shoota (Index), Warlord

+ Troops +

Boyz [11 PL, 208pts]: 2x Tankbusta Bombs
. Boss Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa
. 28x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

+ Elites +

Nobz [14 PL, 164pts]: Ammo Runt
. Boss Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa

Nobz [14 PL, 164pts]: Ammo Runt
. Boss Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Choppa, Choppa

+ Heavy Support +

BoneBreaker [9 PL, 159pts]: Deff Rolla

BoneBreaker [9 PL, 159pts]: Deff Rolla

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [39 PL, 867pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Bad Moons

+ HQ +

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]: 2. Warpath

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]: 3. Da Jump

+ Troops +

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]: 10x Gretchin

+ Elites +

Tankbustas [8 PL, 173pts]: 2x Bomb Squig
. Boss Nob: Rokkit Launcha
. 8x Tankbusta: 8x Rokkit Launcha

Tankbustas [8 PL, 173pts]: 2x Bomb Squig
. Boss Nob: Rokkit Launcha
. 8x Tankbusta: 8x Rokkit Launcha

+ Flyer +

Wazbom Blastajet [8 PL, 179pts]: 2x Wazbom Mega-Kannons, Kustom Force Field, Smasha Gun, 2x Supa Shoota

+ Dedicated Transport +

Trukk [3 PL, 64pts]: Big Shoota

Trukk [3 PL, 64pts]: Big Shoota

++ Total: [109 PL, 2000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

I'm gonna hafta make some assumptions on your fielding, since you didn't give us any info on that. So, assuming your Wazbom is gonna be using its KFF on the Boy Mob, your Nobz are gonna be vulnerable, unless your Tellyport them. Your Biker Boss and Wartrike are gonna leave the rest of your army behind, if you move them to their full speed, leaving them vulnerable too. If you're gonna use Super Cybork, it's usually best to pair it with the Bad Moonz Warlord Trait. And if your Tankbustas go down, you're losing basically all your ranged capability.

I'm not super experienced in the tournament scene, so I'll let someone else give you suggestions on improvements. I just wanted to give my two cents on what I immediately noticed.

Sorry about the lack of information. I was going to use the plane with KFF in the middle of my battlewagons and trukks to shield them turn one. After that, I'm charging the battlewagons forward and the trukks with TB are driving around and taking care of any high toughness threats my battlewagons cant charge into. I'll deploy the boyz on the field with the gretchins with the same Klan to use as grot shields if needed; then I'll da jump them. I grabbed the cybork relic just so I can try to keep the wartrike alive long enough to see what he can do lol. I know it's not an optimized list, but I was hoping to build a list around a bonebreaka core

@AngryMedic, have you looked at the Vigilis Detachments? There is one that inclides a relic that gives your wartrike +1 toughness and a 5++. There is also a battlewagon one...

where are those rules anyway? i thought they were in chapterapproved but i didnt see them.
Could be blind since it had a gakton of imperial related crap...

They're in the Vigilus Defiant book

oof, 50 bucks for a book i dont care for 95% of. Typical GW....
i might need to find those rules on my own. I dont see myself using them much but i still want to try them.

yeah...the a couple of the relics are obviously good, but most of the stratagems are questionable or situational.

I like the fact GW tends to defend itself by saying "we are a model company selling models", but for such company they do love to sell you some books and oh boy dont they just LOVE smashing info in bits - spread across all books... But enough about that.

How many Supajets people wield? Ive been scouring tourney reports, and most Ork lists out there have three of them.

//edit eeeh meant dakkajet yeah....

Err... a dakkajet? I'm interested in the best use of those as well, I've got a cute little cartoony B17 model I intend to convert, and am not sure if I should do more than one.

Ilgoth wrote:
I like the fact GW tends to defend itself by saying "we are a model company selling models", but for such company they do love to sell you some books and oh boy dont they just LOVE smashing info in bits - spread across all books... But enough about that.

How many Supajets people wield? Ive been scouring tourney reports, and most Ork lists out there have three of them.

Do you mean the megatrakk scrapjet? They're decent, wouldn't necessarily call them competitive as they're still overcosted like all the other buggies just not as bad. They can work pretty well in some specific lists. I'd probably run them as 3 solo's with evil sunz since deathskulls wouldn't benefit them as much and they need the extra movement with only a 10" move.

Yea sorry I meant dakkajets... haha

Dakkajets are either amazing or useless and unfortunately its dependent on who you face.

GEQs? Completely shreds through their numbers, despite having half the hits of my shootaboyz on average it still tends to kill more in the end.
MEQs? Pfft...either my luck is terrible or they are completely worthless at dealing with MEQs. Every time i field one against a MEQ army it feels like it isnt doing a dang thing, to the point of my opponent even ignores it so it lasts the entire game, which it should never last that long, and just...doesnt do anything.
Wouldnt even try against vehicles/monsters. The higher toughness and number of wounds makes it do almost nothing. Few times i did try it performed exactly how i expected: landed 2 wounds on a T7 3+ save vehicle.

The thing with Tankbusta bombs....you really only need 1 per mob....yeah they are free upgrades but who cares? Just kill him last, you can only ever use 1 per shooting phase anyway and realistically if you waste the CP on the grenade strat using a boyz mob you are so desperate that the game is probably already out of hand....which would be weird because I usually run out of CP by the end of turn 3ish if I am being conservative.

7ppm boyz stink compared to what everyone else got with their codex upgrades. we got Dakkax3 to help with the fact that almost all our shooting units were CRAP and still pretty much are unless you spend an insane amount of CP on them. I haven't seen Shootaboy mobz yet nor have I seen people fielding flashgitz in tournaments either. Basically its the Loota bomb or someone brings a bunch of dakkajets and hopes to face lots of light infantry in their games.

I'm not liking 7 point ork boyz either. They aren't awful or anything, but they are more expensive than ever and die faster than ever now.

Meh.

And they have fewer attacks to boot.

Kicked in the nuts 3 times. More expensive, less attacks, and die easier than ever.

I think boyz need to either go back to 6 points or they need to get 4 attacks base on the charge.

Heafstaag wrote:
I'm not liking 7 point ork boyz either. They aren't awful or anything, but they are more expensive than ever and die faster than ever now.

Meh.

And they have fewer attacks to boot.

Kicked in the nuts 3 times. More expensive, less attacks, and die easier than ever.

I think boyz need to either go back to 6 points or they need to get 4 attacks base on the charge.

I think you have to factor how quickly most things die in 8th ed, outside of a few outlier units. Furthermore, I think with klan kulturs being on the higher end of the spectrum when it comes to faction traits (compared to guys like Eldar or SM) it justifies them being 1 point more expensive than they were before. I'm not sure what you mean by them having less attacks since they haven't changed in that regard unless you're talking about in 7th ed., which is pretty disingenuous given that almost all CC (and non-CC) units lost that with the edition change to charges. Plus boyz were pretty awful in 7th ed. outside of the Green Tide formation, so even with that comparison I don't get where you're getting that from.

Basically with boyz, you need to go all in on several things, either:

tellyport/da jump them
put them in battlewagons
Run 120+ footslogging on the board

You can't expect them to just do all the legwork, now that the rest of the codex is relatively up to par.

7 ppm boyz are passable but they look odd compared to 9 ppm sisters that can easilly get up to 6 s4 attacks while maintaining 3+ armor and often 4++. They also have great shooting to boot.

SemperMortis wrote:
The thing with Tankbusta bombs....you really only need 1 per mob....yeah they are free upgrades but who cares? Just kill him last, you can only ever use 1 per shooting phase anyway and realistically if you waste the CP on the grenade strat using a boyz mob you are so desperate that the game is probably already out of hand....which would be weird because I usually run out of CP by the end of turn 3ish if I am being conservative.

You still need specific model to represent. If you are "he's the one I kill last" then you are cheating either intentionally or unintentionally but nevertheless gaining definite advantage with it. Ergo any bombs MUST be identifiable in the unit. "he's the last boy I remove" doesn't cut it.

(and incidentally same reason is also reason why you want 3 in mob of 30 so 3 specific models)

Hey guys, I'm putting together my first Ork list ever (I mainly play eldar) and would really appreciate some advice!

So I've managed to get my hands on some kharadron airships I want to orkify and turn into pirate ships. The theme would be freebooterz ideally but it would it be mixing in some other kultures?

I'd really like to use the big ship as a kill tank, with maybe a couple of bonebreakers and a big trakk and fill them full of nobz, maybe with some mega armoured nobz in there too.

I'm not too sure on the best loadouts for the vehicles and squads though, but was thinking of running the trakk with a super scorcha, twin skorchas and load of combi skorcha nobz, or Burna Boyz if points get tight, for a massive amount of flamer hits.

I'm not expecting it to be a super competitive list, the theme and having fun is the main thing really, but would like to be able to hold my own at least, my meta seems pretty competitive ATM!

So any advice would be great, it's my first ever Ork list so really swamped with options atm!

Freebootas are pretty strong if you go all the way with them. I'd say they're a kultur where you don't want to soup others in, or do so at a small scale.

Their ability, to gain +1 to hit is quite strong for Orks but you have to kill something first. A super-skorcha could get the job done against a softer target. Another option is Mek Gunz, since the grots can help you achieve the bonus but don't benefit from it themselves. The problem with getting the benefit from a mek gun is that it forms a 24" bubble, which might be an issue considering the mek gunz are in your backline.

Overall, I wouldn't go too hard with the skorcha loadout on nobz since you kultur doesn't really help them. The kultur works in CC as well so combining a waaagh banner nob with saw MANZ ad the kultur and they hit on 2's. Plenty of fun little interactions you can get.

Basically just ask yourself, in both the shooting and the fight phase, what's the easiest thing I can kill so the rest of my army gets killier?

Ok thanks, so freebooterz are sort of like ynnari orks? I can work with that!

Not sure about the mek guns, like you said everything else will be up the other end of the table usually and I'd like to have everything in the transports if possible.

Might go for Burna Boyz instead of nobz with skorcha then, to keep them cheaper. Would also like to fit in some flash gitz if I can, do you think taking them in larger squads of say 8 plus a couple ammo runts would be the best way?

For characters definitely a nob with banner, plus I have a big mek, badrukk and a painboy.

Mek gunz are really good right now, might change in the March FAQ but a smasha gun for 31 points is insane value. Since grots never get the kultur benefit but they can help other get the freeboota benefit they are a good fit, fire 'em first and hope for a kill. They are expensive models though, so I fully understand if you don't want to use them.

Burna boyz are unfortunately terrible, but you can check out the Kustom boosta-blasta (it's basically 4 burna boyz plus other stuff) to fill some auto-hitting needs. The dakkajet, while not auto-hitting, hits on 3's if you get the ability off and shoot all the guns at the same target. For 1CP you can shoot other flyers at an additional +1 to hit. Remember to buy the extra supa-shootas if you're using it.

Flash Gitz are good in a freeboota army, and it's super fluffy so I say go for 'em! Any configuration is probably okay but 2 small groups with runts fit in a single trukk and could be an idea. The painboy is alright, not going to sink you army or anything but probably a bit too steep of a price to easily recommend. As someone who runs plenty of transports I can say that you can do it but remember to look into bonebreakas for the units with no shooting, like Nobz or MANZ.

Is you big mek a SAG big mek? If so, check out the relic from the dread waaagh detachment in Vigilus defiant. It's 2d6 shots instead of 1d6. That guy is going to wreck face if he gets to hit on 4's.

To trigger your ability in CC a great way is to use a warboss with Da Killa Klaw since it already hits on 2's (and like a damn trukk). Nobz are great in CC and cheap enough (a 10 man squad with 5 BC, a couple of power stabbas and the rest dual choppas + 2 ammo runts is a great setup). MANZ with saws hitting on 2's is insane.