Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Jidmah wrote:

 flaming tadpole wrote:
I kinda want to try da jumping a mobbed up 20 nobs. Maybe keep them in the back the first 1-2 turns to see if they can proc loot it from a mek gun or something. Basically 20 primaris marines with 6 S5 attacks each if you cast warpath would be pretty intimidating.

Congratulation, you manage to make Blood Angel Reavers

Sadly, 20 primaris marines are basically the opposite of something good, so it's not a goal you should be pursuing.

If you like nobz, put them in battlewagons or bonebreakers and drive them into your enemy line. They will get there just as fast as when jumping them, and a charge is much more likely should they survive.

Surviving is IMO lot less likely than 78% that jump gives you. You need plenty more vehicle threats for that battlewagon to not be blown apart right off the bat.

tneva82 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 flaming tadpole wrote:
I kinda want to try da jumping a mobbed up 20 nobs. Maybe keep them in the back the first 1-2 turns to see if they can proc loot it from a mek gun or something. Basically 20 primaris marines with 6 S5 attacks each if you cast warpath would be pretty intimidating.

Congratulation, you manage to make Blood Angel Reavers

Sadly, 20 primaris marines are basically the opposite of something good, so it's not a goal you should be pursuing.

If you like nobz, put them in battlewagons or bonebreakers and drive them into your enemy line. They will get there just as fast as when jumping them, and a charge is much more likely should they survive.

Surviving is IMO lot less likely than 78% that jump gives you. You need plenty more vehicle threats for that battlewagon to not be blown apart right off the bat.

Sure, but are you going to T1 da jump the mobbed up Nobz? They'll charge chaff then, are they really better at that than normal boyz (who still fill troop slots and can be brought back)?

thats assuming they make a 9" charge, which even with 'Ere We Go is not that likely. And if they fail that charge they are sitting ducks.
I pretty much only Da Jump shoota boyz unless i ran out of shoota boyz to jump because i dont care if they fail the charge, getting the entire unit within 18" of chaff is what im after.

PiñaColada wrote:

Sure, but are you going to T1 da jump the mobbed up Nobz? They'll charge chaff then, are they really better at that than normal boyz (who still fill troop slots and can be brought back)?

Yep no. That's why they are either da jumped T2 after being in somewhere safe or if that's not viable tellyport. Being on vehicle has quite real danger of having vehicle blown right away. And even if it can move once it might not be in range to intended target especially against mobile army anyway. Deep strike has lot more reach.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
thats assuming they make a 9" charge, which even with 'Ere We Go is not that likely. And if they fail that charge they are sitting ducks.
I pretty much only Da Jump shoota boyz unless i ran out of shoota boyz to jump because i dont care if they fail the charge, getting the entire unit within 18" of chaff is what im after.

+1 for charge, 78" chance. Chance of bw being blown up T1 if you don't have major vehicle spam is lot bigger than 22%

Flash Gits in Trukks (to loot) seems good but then there's the heavy weapon, the 372 pt price tag and the S6 weapon.

If they were Str 7 it'd be a no brainier but S6 really puts me off. They are OK against light vehicles and elite Infantry I suppose but neither of those things scare me.

Also 372 pts (with ammo runts) seems expensive. That's a Gork/Morkanaut but it degrades quicker and is easier to wound (but has more of them).

Hmmm, maybe they're useful for sitting in cover in the midfield trying to blast away Bulgryns and the like? A 2+ save if Looted Trukk in cover sounds tasty.

 Jidmah wrote:

 flaming tadpole wrote:
I kinda want to try da jumping a mobbed up 20 nobs. Maybe keep them in the back the first 1-2 turns to see if they can proc loot it from a mek gun or something. Basically 20 primaris marines with 6 S5 attacks each if you cast warpath would be pretty intimidating.

Congratulation, you manage to make Blood Angel Reavers

Sadly, 20 primaris marines are basically the opposite of something good, so it's not a goal you should be pursuing.

If you like nobz, put them in battlewagons or bonebreakers and drive them into your enemy line. They will get there just as fast as when jumping them, and a charge is much more likely should they survive.

I mean I didn't necessarily say it was gonna be good I just said I wanted to try it. In theory it doesn't seem too bad. More killy and durable than a max boyz squad for about 70pts more doesn't seem too shabby. Main problem is pretty much all my nobs have bc or pk's. Maybe I can get away with counting a bc as a normal choppa since nobs are bigger? lol.

Yeah 300pts for 10 Flashgitz is not that tasty since even if they loot the transport (which adds to that price) since when is ~10 2W 3+ save models hard to kill?

The only reason 5-10 marines are annoying to kill is because they have the range to just park it in cover and get that stupid 2+ save (still the only major rule in 8th that pisses me off...). Once the cover is out of the question they still die pretty quick.

Just wanted to say that I played Ben Jurek 2nd version of Freebooterz in TTS today vs a eldari soup (but no cat lady); he conceded end of T2.
I never had so much firepower, Target saturation and mobility before. The list is plain scary and basically works without stratagems. I guess vs a knight you might wanna deep strike the gorkas but otherwise you will dominate the battlefield
Highlight of the match: Super SAG mek with moar dakka and killa reputation did 15 W on a exarch,he vected when I wanted to shoot again another jet

How many times can a badmoon vigilus mek shoot with all those strategems. I wana say 3 but one strat is "shoot 2 times" another one is "shoot for the second time". Not sure you can get 3 shootings in.

You can shoot twice. As both strategems while different put a limit on how many times the unit can shoot, the limit will be either shooting a second time, or shoot twice. Neither stratagem allows for you to shoot a third time, or another time. A phrase like that would be necessary since the rulebook limits a unit to shooting once.

The strategem effectively breaks the rule, and allows you to shoot either twice, or for a second time depending on the strategem being used.

While it is easy to see how you could construe things to say you could shoot twice, and then shoot for a second time, however, this is stretching the definition of twice to suit the result you are trying to achieve.

 flandarz wrote:
I'm considering making a Freebootas List with like 3 Trukks full of Flash Gitz, a Boy Mob or two, and a bunch of Smashas and Traktors. It'll probably suck.

My 1k list is 2x warboss, 2x 10 Flash Gitz, 2x ammo runts, 2x trukks, 3x 10 grotz. Works fine for me with loot it to improve saves and Grot shield.

Moriarty wrote:

 flandarz wrote:
I'm considering making a Freebootas List with like 3 Trukks full of Flash Gitz, a Boy Mob or two, and a bunch of Smashas and Traktors. It'll probably suck.

My 1k list is 2x warboss, 2x 10 Flash Gitz, 2x ammo runts, 2x trukks, 3x 10 grotz. Works fine for me with loot it to improve saves and Grot shield.

Are the warboss on bike? Otherwise what happens if you get outmaneuvered and you need that breaking heads?

Moriarty wrote:

 flandarz wrote:
I'm considering making a Freebootas List with like 3 Trukks full of Flash Gitz, a Boy Mob or two, and a bunch of Smashas and Traktors. It'll probably suck.

My 1k list is 2x warboss, 2x 10 Flash Gitz, 2x ammo runts, 2x trukks, 3x 10 grotz. Works fine for me with loot it to improve saves and Grot shield.

I'm all for trying out different lists, I do it myself all the time. But I gotta admit that I'm struggling to see how you're using those warbosses. Are they going in the same trukks as the flash gitz? Because they want to operate at different ranges. Or maybe you might deepstrike them but I'm not sure if you have enough chaff clearing to reliably get them to deepstrike T2 rather than T3.

Still, if you've made it work in your games I'll gladly listen to how you've played it.

PiñaColada wrote:

Moriarty wrote:

 flandarz wrote:
I'm considering making a Freebootas List with like 3 Trukks full of Flash Gitz, a Boy Mob or two, and a bunch of Smashas and Traktors. It'll probably suck.

My 1k list is 2x warboss, 2x 10 Flash Gitz, 2x ammo runts, 2x trukks, 3x 10 grotz. Works fine for me with loot it to improve saves and Grot shield.

I'm all for trying out different lists, I do it myself all the time. But I gotta admit that I'm struggling to see how you're using those warbosses. Are they going in the same trukks as the flash gitz? Because they want to operate at different ranges. Or maybe you might deepstrike them but I'm not sure if you have enough chaff clearing to reliably get them to deepstrike T2 rather than T3.

Still, if you've made it work in your games I'll gladly listen to how you've played it.

Well could be h2h protector for the flashgits for example. With just 24" range and super soft trukks you can't count on being out of h2h forever if you want to actually shoot something. Especially useful.

Playing on saturday vs eldar who wants to play practice game for competive single codex no allies(except different regiments etc within same codex) tournament. 1850 pts. Howabout this one? Not trying specifically anti-eldar list so went for what I would take if I were to play this tournament.

battalion - evil suns:

warboss(da killa klaw, brutal&kunning)
weirdboy(da jump)

30xboyz(19 choppas, power klaw)
30xboyz(29 choppas, big choppa)
10xgretchin
4xmek gun(2xsmasha gun, traktor, kmk)

battalion - bad moons:

2xweirdboy(fist of gork, da jump)
runtherd
30xboyz(all shootas, power klaw)
30xgretchin
24xgretchin

15xlootas
2x3 mek guns(smasha gun, traktor kannon, KMK each)

So loota star, 90 boyz, 10 mek guns. 13 CP is bit low. Lootas eat 3-6 per turn so I'm thinking putting just one evil sun mob into tellyporta. Turn 1 Da jump bad moon boys to clear chaff. Turn 2 da jump rest. Blow things up.

The only real issues I see with that 1k list is that you only have two targets for your opponent (the Trukks with everything inside them), and your only units that can capture objectives are the Grots. Also seems hard to proc the Freebootas trait, since you're relying on the Gitz to do so, and they won't be able to give the bonus to anyone from within the Trukk, since they aren't on the board. Otherwise, it looks fun.

Yeah, you need some mek gunz to proc that sweet +1

Some as in lots. 2-3 isn't easily killing full units and besides mek guns die in droves. I'm now take 0 or 10+ camp expecting to lose minimum 4 per turn

It's only a 1k list. What 1k list out there is wiping 4+ Mek Gunz a turn?

Eldar/Harlequins with many haywire shots or lists with three helverines come to mind.

However, 1000 points is not a format that is commonly played with top competitive choices.

Ah right 1k. Well 2 mek guns easy peacy and if you have like 4 2 will struggle to kill whole unit

That's true, Jidmah. I was just remarking on its viability as a 1k list, not saying 1k is common.

 Emicrania wrote:

Moriarty wrote:

 flandarz wrote:
I'm considering making a Freebootas List with like 3 Trukks full of Flash Gitz, a Boy Mob or two, and a bunch of Smashas and Traktors. It'll probably suck.

My 1k list is 2x warboss, 2x 10 Flash Gitz, 2x ammo runts, 2x trukks, 3x 10 grotz. Works fine for me with loot it to improve saves and Grot shield.

Are the warboss on bike? Otherwise what happens if you get outmaneuvered and you need that breaking heads?

Sorry, warboss in each truckk to add punch if cc is in the offing. FG are still Nobz, though, with Choppa, so do the job quite well.

Obviously how they play depends on the table and who is opposite. Generally stay in trukk until it is looted, with grots denying back field to DS units, concentrate on one enemy flank and chew through the other army one unit at a time. Showing Off is fun - the opponents’ expression is a joy : - )

I don’t worry about how ‘competetive’ it is, just happy my Gitz are getting an airing. So far did well vs DE flyers, not so much vs Necrontyr ‘jump’ troops, and a right ‘ding-dong’ vs Custards, took it down to the invul Champion who would Just Not Die.

With 2nd unit of nobs in work I thought about trying ram some T8 vehicles in your face list. Evil sun and goff battalions. Both battallions have warboss+weirdboy+waagh banner+10 nobs+bonebreaka+3x10 grots+gorkanaut. Also 3 smasha gun.

Bit low on bodies but you have 4 T8 vehicles plus 3 smasha guns.

Thinking of starting on board with everything to saturate enemy AT firepower. I should get T2 charges in anyway. Or maybe DS goff gorkanaut that's the slowest and use ramming speed to charge T2

Too bad couldn't fit KFF there but with index ban around no cheap options for that.

13 CP and with no lootas or tellyportas I should have for a change plenty of CP's.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Found out these:

https://bitsofwar.com/home/705-kopta-kan-meat-grinder-squadron.html

And started thinking trio could be useful. One thing I lack is FA choices. Particularly cheap ones for brigade except for goff 5 strong stormboyz units...

So. Was thinking trio of these for death skulls could be handy. But what weapon? KMK would require conversions but cheapest option and d6 damage isn't that bad with deathskull reroll. OTOH rokkits cost more, flat 3 is worse than d6 with reroll but does have 2 shots which I think is pretty ideal shot count for deathskull reroll rule.

 flandarz wrote:
That's true, Jidmah. I was just remarking on its viability as a 1k list, not saying 1k is common.

Oh, that was not what I'm saying at all. 1000 (and 850 for that matter) is VERY common in my area - just not for tournaments. Campaigns, pick-up games, beginner matches and "let's talk about our hobby while shoving models"-games are usually played at that game size, but you rarely run into the best of the best when doing so.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:
With 2nd unit of nobs in work I thought about trying ram some T8 vehicles in your face list. Evil sun and goff battalions. Both battallions have warboss+weirdboy+waagh banner+10 nobs+bonebreaka+3x10 grots+gorkanaut. Also 3 smasha gun.

Bit low on bodies but you have 4 T8 vehicles plus 3 smasha guns.

If you are running Goff anyways, why not bring Thrakka? You basically get two killa klaws that way. I also don't see why you would want two banners in the army, since neither the warbosses nor the bonebreakers benefit from it.

You also have Warboss+Weirdboy+Banner+10 nobz add up to 13 models, which do not fit inside the bonebreaker. From experience, you will always roll at least one 6 when a wagon blows up, so you can save points by replacing one choppachoppa nob with an ammo runt.

I assume that your clans are locked in by your paint job as usual? Otherwise you could get some more mileage out of re-arranging your army.

Thinking of starting on board with everything to saturate enemy AT firepower. I should get T2 charges in anyway. Or maybe DS goff gorkanaut that's the slowest and use ramming speed to charge T2

With evil suns you can bring a deffkilla wartrike and aim to assault something T1 - advance bonebreaka 14+d6" in and then try ramming speed. You can follow up with the wartrike itself and maybe some koptas as well, since all of them advance flat 6". Even if you just tie down chaff, this will draw fire from your nauts since they have to shoot the bonebreaka and trike in order to prevent them from diving deep into their lines and actually touching something valuable. At 2000 points few lists will be able to destroy a bonebreaker and a wartrike and still be able to meaningful harm a naut.

Too bad couldn't fit KFF there but with index ban around no cheap options for that.

If you really want a KFF, then switch a gorkanaut for a morkanaut? They aren't that far apart in efficiency.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Found out these:

https://bitsofwar.com/home/705-kopta-kan-meat-grinder-squadron.html

And started thinking trio could be useful. One thing I lack is FA choices. Particularly cheap ones for brigade except for goff 5 strong stormboyz units...

If I bring a brigade I often bring a unit of 3-5 and two single ones. The awesome part about koptas are that they can benefit from lots of stratagems since they are speed freaks and vehicles and have fly. You can protect them with exhaust cloud, speed them up with ramming speed, get them out of trouble or onto objectives with drive-by krumpin', try to destroy a flyer with uncontrolled bursts and more dakka or loot them when they get destroyed. The stratagems are wasted on a single kopta, so I usually bring a unit with additional models. They also aren't terrible at clearing infantry with their kopta blades, so I sometimes use them for that.
In general koptas work very well alongside battlewagons, since any weapon decent at killing koptas is also good at killing any of our other vehicles, so they add to target saturation despite having a vastly different profile.

So. Was thinking trio of these for death skulls could be handy. But what weapon? KMK would require conversions but cheapest option and d6 damage isn't that bad with deathskull reroll. OTOH rokkits cost more, flat 3 is worse than d6 with reroll but does have 2 shots which I think is pretty ideal shot count for deathskull reroll rule.

KMB is an index-only option, so the decision has been made for you.

Just to add in my 2 cents to the trukk debate....they suck

Every single Ork vehicle and basically anything orky with T5+ is over priced. Trukkz are just in a terrible place right now because they lack a use beyond mobile bunkers and bullet sponges and they aren't very good at either job. With zero upgrades a Trukk is 64pts, its T6 with 10 wounds and a 4+ save with a transport capacity of 12, armed with a single Big Shoota. A Rhino upgraded with a 2nd stormbolter is 74pts....So its 10pts more then a Trukk, It is T7, 10 wounds with a 3+ save a transport capacity of 10 and 2 Stormbolters which when the Bolter beta rule becomes a thing, are capable of pushing out 8 S4 shots a turn at 24' range compared to the Trukkz 3 shots at 36' range. Ohh, and it comes built in with a single use -1 to hit for 1 turn.

A Rhino is better across the board. People argue that the transport capacity is smaller but fail to remember that SM's generally aren't bringing units of 10+ where as Orkz almost exclusively bring 10+. Then there is the argument about Open topped and shooting out the vehicle but you have to remember at that point then the unit is just adding armor in the form of a 64pt trukk. So another 5pts to each model inside the trukk. The biggest point though is that while Rhino's are better almost at everything, they still don't see much game time because they suck compared to other options SM's can take. Why have a transport when you can just deep strike those terminators, or why take a vehicle with S4 shots when you can take a razorback and have Twin assault cannons or lascannons.

Trukkz suck and every ork vehicle is over priced. I love taking my Bonebreaker wagons to a game and having them deep strike turn 2 but even I know that they are drastically over priced and under performing when compared to other factions units. You can take almost 4 Bonebreakers for the cost of a single Knight Castellan....which is going to win that contest? I will give you a hint, the Castellan, even without strats is going to obliterate a bonebreaker and some change EVERY turn. By the end of turn 2 it will have killed at least 2 BBs and severely wounded a 3rd. and when you finally get into CC the Castellan wins.


Ork vehicles are supposed to be cheap and either durable or full of dakka.....none of our current iteration of vehicles fits that mold. Mek Gunz are probably close but they lack the damage output to justify how easy they are to kill and give the enemy an easy first blood every game.

Now, with regards to my recent game I can tell you that my initial feelings about boyz seems to have been proven right. They just aren't good enough anymore and nothing else in the codex became powerful enough to fill the hole left behind by boyz getting over priced. Most of my opponents have found simple strategies to get around my loota bomb and some of the more innovative guys have even found ways to kill my Relic SAG Big Mek.

I am hoping they fix some of the glaring holes in our codex with the FAQ but I somehow doubt they will.

Everyone already knows Ork units are overpriced for what they give ya. Hell, even Grots. Sure, they're only 4pts a model, but they're so weak and easy to kill their only use is to generate CP and act as bullet sponges with Grot Shield.

The truck conversation was in regards to other Ork transports, not as to whether or not they stack up compared to transports in other armies.

Grots are so pathetic that when they kill ANYTHING (i.e. 10 fire at assault marines and manage to kill 1) it feels like pure luck on my side.

 Jidmah wrote:

If you are running Goff anyways, why not bring Thrakka? You basically get two killa klaws that way. I also don't see why you would want two banners in the army, since neither the warbosses nor the bonebreakers benefit from it.

150 pts or so why! Also eats up place of a nob and is basically just slower expensive warlord with 4++. Nice but the price!

(Clan); units within 6" of any friendly Waaagh! banner add 1 to their hit rolls in the Fight phase.

Note the word clan. Sure I could drop one(probably the one with killa klaw warboss. Regular warboss benefits just fine tyvm hitting on 2+ with his -1 to hit power klaw) but that's one nob unit hitting on 3+'s then.

You also have Warboss+Weirdboy+Banner+10 nobz add up to 13 models, which do not fit inside the bonebreaker. From experience, you will always roll at least one 6 when a wagon blows up, so you can save points by replacing one choppachoppa nob with an ammo runt.

Yes they do not all fit. Which is why weirdboys were never going there. Can't cast from inside anyway, no real need to be there giving easy assasinate targets.

And yes 1's are going to come. But that's assuming wagons always blow up and if they do I'm expecting nobs to melt away right away anyway. It's bit of saved points when you lose wagon(and nobs along with it) but wasted points when it's not for waste of a space when you don't. Ammo runt there does nothing if wagon doesn't blow up.

I assume that your clans are locked in by your paint job as usual? Otherwise you could get some more mileage out of re-arranging your army.

Yeah well wysiwyg is a thing in Finland. Common courtesy. You don't want to be going "these black and white orks are X while these black and white orks are actually Y".

With evil suns you can bring a deffkilla wartrike and aim to assault something T1 - advance bonebreaka 14+d6" in and then try ramming speed. You can follow up with the wartrike itself and maybe some koptas as well, since all of them advance flat 6". Even if you just tie down chaff, this will draw fire from your nauts since they have to shoot the bonebreaka and trike in order to prevent them from diving deep into their lines and actually touching something valuable. At 2000 points few lists will be able to destroy a bonebreaker and a wartrike and still be able to meaningful harm a naut.

Yes but that's 120 pts and only very few armies(pure marines basically) that's actually possible in practice. Against most I move, charge, kill little, then bonebreaka gets surrounded by chaff and blown(being middle of enemy army that's easy not to mention the extra juice makes it worth ignoring generally everything to do it) and hey presto not only did I lose bonebreaka but also warboss, banner and 10 nobs and he didn't even need to bother to SHOOT at the contents.

For that I would need lot more chaff clearing ability to but as it is this won't clear any of that on T1 really.

If you really want a KFF, then switch a gorkanaut for a morkanaut? They aren't that far apart in efficiency.

Sure. Just get me one I have 2 gorkanauts. I don't have morkanaut. I got 2nd gorkanaut second hand so much to my annoyance still lacking morkanaut. That was one reason(along with 2nd stompa) 2nd hand deal was bit of "hmmmmm....." but over 60% discount was in the end too good to pass out on.

If I bring a brigade I often bring a unit of 3-5 and two single ones. The awesome part about koptas are that they can benefit from lots of stratagems since they are speed freaks and vehicles and have fly.

Yeah well not ruling out more later but for now 3 is what I'm eyeballing. That price I can deal with and there's also 9 evil sun meganobz I'm eyeballing. I'm not made out of cash So for now 3 which gives me brigade minimums and 3 rather handy rerollable plasma or rokkits should be enough.

I could go for big unit of course but that's missing bit of power on rerolls. If I go that way plasma weapon would be obv choise though. Having only 1 reroll for 3 hurts less when you are throwing 3 shots rather than 6.

KMB is an index-only option, so the decision has been made for you.

Oh bugger. Was looking over rules from BS while at work so missed that one. Well yeah then at most magnetize and have KMK for the hyper rare tournaments that allow them. So rokkits it is. Damn. It's the price that annoys more as it's more expensive brigade.

 flandarz wrote:
Everyone already knows Ork units are overpriced for what they give ya. Hell, even Grots. Sure, they're only 4pts a model, but they're so weak and easy to kill their only use is to generate CP and act as bullet sponges with Grot Shield.

The truck conversation was in regards to other Ork transports, not as to whether or not they stack up compared to transports in other armies.

Grots are 3 points a pop, not 4 fortunately. Only the oilers/ammo runts are 4ppm.

It's still a vast difference in worth between grots at 3ppm and guardsmen at 4ppm though

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Grots are so pathetic that when they kill ANYTHING (i.e. 10 fire at assault marines and manage to kill 1) it feels like pure luck on my side.

Well they aren't meant to be killing stuff(30 will kill 2.6 assault marines). For objectives, deep strike blocking and of course CP they are good.

Something like 40-50 or so can basically prevent deep strikes/come within edge to your DZ. And enemy will need to kill nearly all of them to get because you don't need more than 4 grots alive to ensure nobody can for example come within 6" of your rear edge on 6'x4' board...