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Made in us
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel




Douglasville, GA

I'm just saying that just going: "I wanna fight Mono SM" is a bit faulty, because the lists are varied. Like, right now Eldar Flyer Spam is king, but an Eldar list without Flyers would be cake to beat. That said, yeah. Mono SM is probably our best match-up. Or Mono Slaaneshi.
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Lists are varied but if even their top build is less scary than medium otier faction build...

Doubt gk can make truly scary anti ork build and any vanilla marine build is prefererable to all but mildest eldar builds. Well repulsor gives me personal headache

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in gb
Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta






Astartes actually do well against Orks in a competitive setting.
They have a higher win % against us than we do them.

Every 'faction' can make a list that Orks struggle to beat so the question is kind of flawed from the outset.

Nids would be a fun game though. Pure Nids without GSC that is. Daemons too. Both because they normally devolve into a cc slugfest so at least the games are entertaining.
   
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So with Adepticon starting today, does anybody know who is running Orks? And what type of lists?
   
Made in us
Flashy Flashgitz






PiñaColada wrote:
So with Adepticon starting today, does anybody know who is running Orks? And what type of lists?
Yeah Nick N. bringing Orks again, added stormboyz in to compensate for the increase in flyers. Otherwise the same loota star and boyz/grots.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lot of people are talking about MANz being the new hotness. I'll expect to see a few 10-30 MANz lists out there. 15 Loota 15 tankbusta is becoming a thing. And obviously the relic SAG.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/28 10:14:46


 
   
Made in us
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine




 hollow one wrote:
PiñaColada wrote:
So with Adepticon starting today, does anybody know who is running Orks? And what type of lists?
Yeah Nick N. bringing Orks again, added stormboyz in to compensate for the increase in flyers. Otherwise the same loota star and boyz/grots.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lot of people are talking about MANz being the new hotness. I'll expect to see a few 10-30 MANz lists out there. 15 Loota 15 tankbusta is becoming a thing. And obviously the relic SAG.

Thanks! How many stormboyz, a blob of 30? What went away to make room for that, lootas/boyz? MANZ are a weird one to me, they don't stand out as being that good IMO (as in they're good but don't scream top tier) but hopefully they'll stream an Ork game or two and we can see some neat tricks in action.
   
Made in us
Flashy Flashgitz






He has a 9, 9, and 26 man squad of stormboyz. I don't remember his list well enough to know whats missing. I believe he brought a 3 man squad of MANz before, and maybe some kommandos but i'm pretty sure he took around the same amount of pure Boyz. But the core of 22 lootas and 90+ grots is still there. Some of his Nobz in his boyz squads are rocking 2xChoppa instead of bigger weapons (which I thought was interesting) and he used to go 2x mega armour warboss, but now he's splitting mega armor and biker warboss.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
and MANz are good for the same reason Lootas are good. You mob em up and spend CP on a unit that is too big for its own good. Imagine 30 MANz with warpath, da jump, and fighting twice.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/28 11:27:32


 
   
Made in gb
Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta






The problem with MANZ is that they need to get into combat range to be effective. It’s unlikely/impossible that a player can get 30 MANZ into fighting range of any unit. Even with Da Jump. Clever positioning of the enemy around terrain can make this number quite low indeed in my experience.

Lootas will definitely fire with every member of their group if their target is in range.

It takes a lot of Storm Boyz to kill a flyer of any description. What am I missing on that? Sure they aren’t used for tying other, ground - based units?
   
Made in us
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel




Douglasville, GA

I dunno. MANz can be really effective for sitting on Objectives and being hard to remove from them. If you get them in cover, it takes -2 AP to get them to a 3+. I ain't gonna say they're great in combat (that -1 to hit and low A hurts them), but taking potshots from cover while sitting on a Objective works fine. That's what I use em for.

   
Made in us
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine




Super-buffing MANZ seems to me like one of those things that are great in mathhammer but not practical in real games. I just feel like they can be pretty easily outmanoeuvred.

As I said, hope we get to see some Ork games as I'd happily be proven wrong (I love MANZ). I'm guessing Nicks stormboyz aren't meant to down enemy flyers primarily but rather to move up the field without risk being movement blocked by flying bases..
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Astartes actually do well against Orks in a competitive setting.
They have a higher win % against us than we do them.

Every 'faction' can make a list that Orks struggle to beat so the question is kind of flawed from the outset.

Nids would be a fun game though. Pure Nids without GSC that is. Daemons too. Both because they normally devolve into a cc slugfest so at least the games are entertaining.


I play nids quite frequently. I'm 2-1 against them so far. He typically uns 3 carnifexes with swarmlord flyrant and trygon. large unit of genestealers, neurothrope and venomthropes for -1 to hit. large unit of gaunts and small unit of rippers to cap objectives. The list gets mixed up now and then subbing things out but its usually something like this.

I focus on removing a couple big guys first. Carnifexes are easiest to kill. then I try to whittle the genestealers and gaunts down. I never focus swarmlord as it's 4++ then 3++ in CC is annoying.
   
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Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine




Steve Pampreen (Orks) is facing Thousand sons on the warhammer tv twitch stream right now. Well, it's about to start any time now

Edit: Steve has 2 batallions and a brigade, jeez all them CPs

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/28 15:00:22


 
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

2 batallions and a brigade? Im curious how the heck he pulled that one off.
7 HQ 12 Troops 3 Elite 3 FA 3 Heavy. That feels like its forced to be a green tide but then the elite/FA/heavy slots are...basically wasted slots as theyre limited to minimeks (cheap elite), single koptas (cheapest FA), and single mek Gunz (cheapest Heavy)
That, or talk about a lot of grots....

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/03/28 15:06:38


An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






 An Actual Englishman wrote:
It takes a lot of Storm Boyz to kill a flyer of any description. What am I missing on that? Sure they aren’t used for tying other, ground - based units?


Storm boyz can't be blocked by flyers (one of the main reasons he lost to them in LVO), and you can use most of them to get into combat even faster, since their overwatch isn't likely to cause many casualties.

7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in gb
Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta






Yea I read the previous comment as 'kill flyers' not so much 'ignore their base'.

We'll see how he gets on here.
   
Made in us
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So unless I counted it all up incorrectly there are 258 players at that event and 27 of them are playing Orks (I might've made mistakes on amount of ork players since some say like evil sunz and not orks).

Assuming I'm correct that's roughly 10.5% of all players that chose to attend with Orks. Pretty good turnout rate, let's see if it translates!
   
Made in us
Smokin' Skorcha Driver






Should be interesting. The only matchup Nick struggled with at LVO was against the flyer spam so the stormboyz makes sense if nothing else than to be a threat. I'm guessing he just dropped a couple of his max boyz squads to fit them in so likely going with a more MSU style build. I'm partly torn wanting orks to do good because if they do GW might decide to completely ignore them for balance updates.

Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings. 
   
Made in us
Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta






 flaming tadpole wrote:
Should be interesting. The only matchup Nick struggled with at LVO was against the flyer spam so the stormboyz makes sense if nothing else than to be a threat. I'm guessing he just dropped a couple of his max boyz squads to fit them in so likely going with a more MSU style build. I'm partly torn wanting orks to do good because if they do GW might decide to completely ignore them for balance updates.


How many have buggies, worse case if the Orks do well. Hopefully GW sees how poorly they preform and do an adjustment to points from there. Its so sad the new awesome models got pointed so high for their performance

10000 points 7000
6000
5000
5000
2000
 
   
Made in us
Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta






 G00fySmiley wrote:
 flaming tadpole wrote:
Should be interesting. The only matchup Nick struggled with at LVO was against the flyer spam so the stormboyz makes sense if nothing else than to be a threat. I'm guessing he just dropped a couple of his max boyz squads to fit them in so likely going with a more MSU style build. I'm partly torn wanting orks to do good because if they do GW might decide to completely ignore them for balance updates.


How many have buggies, worse case if the Orks do well. Hopefully GW sees how poorly they preform and do an adjustment to points from there. Its so sad the new awesome models got pointed so high for their performance

None of them lol. Hopefully GW see the lack of Buggies, Bikes and everything else that I personally like to take and realise that there's a problem, but I very much doubt it. I agree with tadpole, if Orks even do remotely well at an event they will be hailed as a balance success and GW will do nothing. The commentators all talk at Adepticon like we're an incredible army second only to IK+AM/Ynarri which concerns me because many of them are play-testers.
   
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I almost sort of hope they nerf "Mob up" to only work on boyz so GW can see that Orks have just a handful of tricks keeping them in relevance. Loota bomb & the Super SAG are pulling a herculean load for competitive orks and that still means a ridiculous reliance on stratagems and can be negated as such.

Mechanised orks have almost nothing going for them at higher tiers excluding slot filling mek gunz (and biker warbosses if we count those). Hopefully they realise they're leaving some sales on the table and fix that.

That's also a thing that worries me in general, if they're looking at sales as a measuring stick then burnas are screwed since lootas are the same kit. But surely, even then, they realise that the burna datasheet is 12ppm worthy?

Edit: Nick N. facing Tony G., his LVO 2018 finalist opponent (and let's say controversial player), in game 3. Not on stream though

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/28 21:32:36


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 An Actual Englishman wrote:
 G00fySmiley wrote:
 flaming tadpole wrote:
Should be interesting. The only matchup Nick struggled with at LVO was against the flyer spam so the stormboyz makes sense if nothing else than to be a threat. I'm guessing he just dropped a couple of his max boyz squads to fit them in so likely going with a more MSU style build. I'm partly torn wanting orks to do good because if they do GW might decide to completely ignore them for balance updates.


How many have buggies, worse case if the Orks do well. Hopefully GW sees how poorly they preform and do an adjustment to points from there. Its so sad the new awesome models got pointed so high for their performance

None of them lol. Hopefully GW see the lack of Buggies, Bikes and everything else that I personally like to take and realise that there's a problem, but I very much doubt it. I agree with tadpole, if Orks even do remotely well at an event they will be hailed as a balance success and GW will do nothing. The commentators all talk at Adepticon like we're an incredible army second only to IK+AM/Ynarri which concerns me because many of them are play-testers.


That just cements my opinion that the "Playtesters" that GW uses are borderline incompetent when it comes to Orkz. Even getting over the moronic comments made by Reece about Stompa's and Killa Kanz being amazing, the fact remains that our entire codex can be boiled down to 2 things. Loota Bomb and Evil Sunz/Deepstriking units. Of those, the loota bomb is probably the most dangerous and it has several hard counters and numerous soft ones.


 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
Made in us
Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta






SemperMortis wrote:
That just cements my opinion that the "Playtesters" that GW uses are borderline incompetent when it comes to Orkz. Even getting over the moronic comments made by Reece about Stompa's and Killa Kanz being amazing, the fact remains that our entire codex can be boiled down to 2 things. Loota Bomb and Evil Sunz/Deepstriking units. Of those, the loota bomb is probably the most dangerous and it has several hard counters and numerous soft ones.


Indeed.

Add to that a relic SAG that (according to every podcast I listen to at least) "always rolls 5s and 6s and deletes everything on the table". It's insane.
   
Made in au
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They do seem to cost things for "The best possible outcome." rather than the average result. Which hurts at times. Especially when you toss in ork BS. (WHY COULDN"T THEY GIVE MEKS GITFINDERS AGAIN!)
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




cody.d. wrote:
They do seem to cost things for "The best possible outcome." rather than the average result. Which hurts at times. Especially when you toss in ork BS. (WHY COULDN"T THEY GIVE MEKS GITFINDERS AGAIN!)


The Relic SAG requires you to purchase a USELESS detachment. So right off the bat its costing you CP. The actual SAG rolls on average 7 shots at S7. 7 Shots with rerolling 1s and exploding 6s yields you about 3 hits. At S7 against most vehicles that is 1.5 wounds so that is about 5-6damage on average a turn. So it does decent damage, of course you throw in a single -1 to hit and all of the sudden its cut in half.

But that has been a thing with orkz forever. Look at the old SAG table from 4th and 7th. The vast majority of the rolls you could get were actively a bad thing with only 1 being a good thing. Same thing can be said for Looted vehicles from back in the day, the big red button had no upside whatsoever and they didn't compensate for that negative by making the vehicles better or cheaper, actually if you used the older rules for Looted vehicles it was just a crappier version of an enemy vehicle.

 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
Made in gb
Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta






Unfortunately we're putting in a pretty good showing at Adepticon, which means we're less and less likely to have any of our underperforming units touched any time soon.

Am I correct in that there are no chess clocks and they don't use the standard ITC format?

The scoring seems seems odd and I believe it is helping keeping us in the high placings.

Also are the assassin index rules used because I've seen a fair few Imperial lists with an assassin taken stock?
   
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Assassins are old rules at adepticon still & I don't believe they use chess clocks. They are using custom ITC missions that seem at bit wonky to me when I looked at them, but to be fair so would normal ITC missions if I didn't know about them.

I'm personally happy "we're" doing well there. I'd wager that every list in the top 16 is a deviation of what we saw doing okay at LVO though. Meaning hopefully we still get wargear drops for overcosted equipment and point drops for units that aren't taken at all (buggies etc)
   
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Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta






If we do even remotely well I doubt we'll see any changes whatsoever.

Yea I have yet to see a list using warbikes or buggies. Every list I have seen has index options and relies on Lootas/Souped up SAG Mek.

It's a variation on the same themes - Boyz, Grots, Lootas, Weird boy, Bike boss and SAG Mek. If a brigade is taken - Deffkoptas are used with Big Shootas for FA, Smasha Guns feature for heavy support (makes sense) and min kommandos are normally the elite choice, often with Grotsnik.

A few lists have Mork/Gorkanaut. Some have Meganobz.

That's about it. I'd be very surprised if GW looks at that and thinks Orks need any changes. I can almost hear the discussion now: "But look, they're taking brigades! That's means all of their slots are fine!"
   
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Well let's hope we can give GW a bit more credit than that haha.

I'm personally a big proponent of changing the entire CP system as I hate the concept of slot fillers, some are fine but when half the units on the board are slot fillers then it's starting to become silly IMO. But that's a discussion for another time.

Is there any way of searching through all the lists for specific units or is that something we can hope to get statistics for after the event?

I still think those eliminators with mortis rounds are going to be gamechangers for armies like Orks when they start hitting the tables. Just sniping weirdboyz out of LoS to deny da jump etc.
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Yea I read the previous comment as 'kill flyers' not so much 'ignore their base'.

We'll see how he gets on here.


People who suggest storm boyz are a good way to kill fliers have never tried doing that

Heck, even those fabled 30 skarboys standing next to Thrakka would have trouble taking down most vehicles in one turn, how are stormboyz supposed to do that...

7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Well 30 stormboyz at least average dark eldar flier.

But yeah point isn't to kill but to ensure you can actually go somewhere rather than be roadblocked by flier.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
 
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