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How are people feeling about deathskulls trukk boyz? I'm workshopping a list with a brigade that features some MSU units of boyz, 10-12 boyz with kombi rocket nob and boy lugging around a rokkit. I've been contemplating chucking them in trukks to boost their mobility and survibility, which ends up being about 13ppm.
It's on the list of a dozen other ideas I'm contemplating but at the moment it's the idea I'm least certain of. For context I'm entering a local tourney that I suspect will use the Eternal War Missions from CA2018. After giving those missions a read through I've noticed that some demand you use troops to capture objectives, some rely heavily on mobility, and some rely on being outright killy.

Nora wrote:
sorry for the blunt question, but what is Kustom Amo?

It's a stratagem for the Dread Waaagh! detachment from the Vigilus Defiant campaign book. For 1CP you can create the following detachment:

Use this Stratagem when choosing your army.
Pick an ORK Detachment from your army to be a
Dread Waaagh! Specialist Detachment. BIG MEKS,
GORKANAUTS , MORKANAUTS , DEFF DREADS
and KILLA KANS in that Detachment gain the
DREAD WAAAGH! keyword.

Kustom Ammo is a stratagem that costs 2CP that all Dread Waaagh! units have access to:

Use this Stratagem in your Shooting phase. Pick a DREAD
WAAAGH! unit from your army. That unit can shoot twice
this Shooting phase with all of its ranged weapons.

Double checked my Codex and you are 100% correct on the Wounds thing. Which makes it even weirder that you would spend 2 CP for +1d6 shots instead of just spending 80ish pts and bringing a second SAG. Or spending those 80 pts on 5 more Lootas, or a couple more Smashas. Don't get me wrong, I like the SAG and SSAG, but Orkz are so CP hungry that spending 2 CP for +1d6 shots is just ridiculous, imo.

Kustom Ammo is, basically, the Bad Moonz Showing Off Strat, but for Dread Waaghs.

 flandarz wrote:
Double checked my Codex and you are 100% correct on the Wounds thing. Which makes it even weirder that you would spend 2 CP for +1d6 shots instead of just spending 80ish pts and bringing a second SAG. Or spending those 80 pts on 5 more Lootas, or a couple more Smashas. Don't get me wrong, I like the SAG and SSAG, but Orkz are so CP hungry that spending 2 CP for +1d6 shots is just ridiculous, imo.

Kustom Ammo is, basically, the Bad Moonz Showing Off Strat, but for Dread Waaghs.

it seems stupid...and it kind of is, the stupid thing should just be a relic we can take. But, 2D6 shots averages 7s across the board and that means about 3 hits a turn with a SSAG using bad moonz compared to the 1.5 for a regular SAG, its twice as deadly and when teamed with some strats like Shoot twice is really does damage. Ive used a SSAG to destroy two enemy fliers in 1 turn by giving it the always hits on 5s strat. And its really nice to be able to kill 2 vehicles and still have a loota bomb and use them to fire twice as well to kill either a couple light vehicles or to grind down some elite infantry.

Well, yeah. That's fine. We were discussing whether it'd still be worth spending CP for a Dread Waagh if they changed Kustom Ammo to not work on the SSAG. In my opinion: no. You'd be better off saving that CP and just grabbing a second SAG. Or pretty much anything, really. We just burn through CP too fast to be spending it on a SSAG without Kustom Ammo.

i believe the Index the SAG did auto mortals and only auto mortals, you might be thinking of that.

Nora wrote:
sorry for the blunt question, but what is Kustom Amo?

Stratagem from Megadread detachment. Basically, a shoot again 2CP thing ala bad moon for walkers and meks.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i believe the Index the SAG did auto mortals and only auto mortals, you might be thinking of that.

Battlescribe also had it wrong for quite some time, and many people take their info from there instead of codices.

 Quackzo wrote:
How are people feeling about deathskulls trukk boyz? I'm workshopping a list with a brigade that features some MSU units of boyz, 10-12 boyz with kombi rocket nob and boy lugging around a rokkit. I've been contemplating chucking them in trukks to boost their mobility and survibility, which ends up being about 13ppm.
It's on the list of a dozen other ideas I'm contemplating but at the moment it's the idea I'm least certain of. For context I'm entering a local tourney that I suspect will use the Eternal War Missions from CA2018. After giving those missions a read through I've noticed that some demand you use troops to capture objectives, some rely heavily on mobility, and some rely on being outright killy.

I've run a similar load out for trucks full of shoota Boyz a number of times, and if your tourney allows index options, it can be made very strong indeed by bunging a rokkit on the truck and throwing in a mini mek with kmb too.
Each fully loaded truck then has 3 units with re-rollable deathskulls culture. It's done very good work for me, in the past. In a 2000 point list I've got 6 trucks in supported by 9 Smashas, 3 deffkoptas with big boms and kmbs, 2x SAG and a Big mek on warbike with kff super cybork and kunnin but brutal.
With a brigade detachment and vanguard, you have plenty of cp to chuck about, I put a lot of guys in the teleporta and move the rest about after deploying using the warlord trait to really mess with my op.
It can be very strong indeed, and you're not reliant on CPs and strategems, thanks to all the natural re-rolls.

Greenson Tide wrote:SNIP

What would be absolutely hilarious is if GW made it where we could take any non-named HQ and infantry but the clan kulture was something that changed the stats of all of our non-gretchin infantry to become Gretchin and give them -1 to strength, toughness, and weapon skill but +1 to BS and require us to kitbash the units w Gretchin. Grot Kommandos, for stormboyz you could use that one Gretchin w jetpack as well as the Grot in the rockkit that come in the box, grot lootas, Grots w rokkit launcha, mega-grotz, etc.
While only a few of us would actually build these models, I would jump at the chance to.

you should see my grot-crons. Basically i play so little and love modelling so much that i make ork versions of armies i like. Grot heads happen to sit really well into necron bodies, especially the elite units. Grot-praetorians? Those are my stormboyz, some still have rockets, some surf those rockets, they look hilarious. I would kill for grot rules, especially since I have loads of killakanz and grot tankz.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A couple questions about some of the stuff talked about over the last couple pages.

What is this thing about open-topped being able to transfer a +1 to hit to the unit inside? Grots were the topic at the time, but is there a way to transfer this to FG's? Do FG's count as 2 models? We seem to always be talking about units of 5 in trukks or 10 in BW's? Or are we assuming 5 ammo runts per 5 FGs?

I wanted to utilise FG's in a mech list, dropping them in via teleporta in a BW. but Dreads are probably better? Just push the BW up first turn to a centralised position? A morka/gorka escort would be a decent CC deterrent?

Also, can you da jump grots? You could use a grot screen for lootas that later in game you da jump to protect your FG's who've just hopped out your popped BW? Probably not hugely effective and you run the risk of not having any grots to da jump should they focus the lootas. Maybe then you just jump the lootas as a suprise motha fooker moment.

Open-Topped allows units inside of a transport to shoot during the shooting phase, and applies all Modifiers that affect the transport to the unit inside. Since the Freebooterz trait gives Freebooterz a +1 to hit, that can be transferred to the unit inside. Even units that normally wouldn't be able to benefit from the Modifiers, like Grots.

Yes, it works for Flash Gitz too.

I'd just put a Gork into the Tellyporta myself. Dreadz can work too, but the Gork has more firepower and is practically guaranteed to make a charge with Ramming Speed. I wouldn't put the BW and Gitz in it, simply because you'll be losing out on a Turn of shooting with them. BW has enough movement to hide out of LoS, then move the FGs into position.

Yeah, Grots can be Da Jumped. Probably better off using it to throw them onto Objectives though. They still get Zog Off, and if the Objective is in Cover, they can be surprisingly annoying to get off of it.

pretty much if it isnt just area terrain cover, grots cannot be shot off the objective. Its so glorious having nothing but barricades surrounding an objective and my opponent shouting "Are you serious i cant see them!?" lol

you should see my grot-crons. Basically i play so little and love modelling so much that i make ork versions of armies i like. Grot heads happen to sit really well into necron bodies, especially the elite units. Grot-praetorians? Those are my stormboyz, some still have rockets, some surf those rockets, they look hilarious. I would kill for grot rules, especially since I have loads of killakanz and grot tankz.

Sounds awesome dude! Got some pics of your army for us?

 r_squared wrote:

 Quackzo wrote:
How are people feeling about deathskulls trukk boyz? I'm workshopping a list with a brigade that features some MSU units of boyz, 10-12 boyz with kombi rocket nob and boy lugging around a rokkit. I've been contemplating chucking them in trukks to boost their mobility and survibility, which ends up being about 13ppm.
It's on the list of a dozen other ideas I'm contemplating but at the moment it's the idea I'm least certain of. For context I'm entering a local tourney that I suspect will use the Eternal War Missions from CA2018. After giving those missions a read through I've noticed that some demand you use troops to capture objectives, some rely heavily on mobility, and some rely on being outright killy.

I've run a similar load out for trucks full of shoota Boyz a number of times, and if your tourney allows index options, it can be made very strong indeed by bunging a rokkit on the truck and throwing in a mini mek with kmb too.
Each fully loaded truck then has 3 units with re-rollable deathskulls culture. It's done very good work for me, in the past. In a 2000 point list I've got 6 trucks in supported by 9 Smashas, 3 deffkoptas with big boms and kmbs, 2x SAG and a Big mek on warbike with kff super cybork and kunnin but brutal.
With a brigade detachment and vanguard, you have plenty of cp to chuck about, I put a lot of guys in the teleporta and move the rest about after deploying using the warlord trait to really mess with my op.
It can be very strong indeed, and you're not reliant on CPs and strategems, thanks to all the natural re-rolls.

Thanks for the advice. I don't think I could swing 6 trukk boyz but was hoping to get by with 3 units of trukk boyz and do grots in the other 3 troop slots for grot shields on the obligatory SSAG big mek. Already have the KMB deffkoptas in their as they're *slightly* cheaper and I plan to use them to either sniper characters or aide in my anti-tank.
I was contemplating the mek boyz with kustom mega sluggas (was planning KMB but can't determine if it's 100% allowed due to the wording in the index vs codex datasheets) but I may or may not be mimicking parts of Steve's list so I'll have my elite slots filled up with big shoota kommandos and grotsnik. My main motive with the deathskulls brigade is to focus on mobility and objectives.
I have a dozen other ideas for this army but I'll save that discussion for after the FAQ.

my most recent deathskulls list used 3 units of 12 shoota boyz.
they did very well. Their trait wasn't my main focus for bringing them. For me they did an excellent job of shooting off horde units with DDD. I was averaging 5 or 6 wounds per unit and against daemons with only a 5++ they were killing troops left and right. They didn't even get popped mainly because the trucks could just shuffle backwards as the enemy advanced. I kept my units at just inside 18". Not to mention the S3 daemons had to crack open the T6 transport first. These units were backed by a gorkanaut for additional horde clearing. He was double shooting with more dakka and helped clear a unit of
blood letters with a 4++ turn one.

I actually think the Gork is one of our better units. Particularly in Dread Waagh, but he's solid just by himself. His chaff clearing is exceptional, and he's tough and strong enough to fight Titanic and Monster units as well. Only thing he really lacks is the character keyword, for Orkz is Never Beaten.

 flandarz wrote:
I actually think the Gork is one of our better units. Particularly in Dread Waagh, but he's solid just by himself. His chaff clearing is exceptional, and he's tough and strong enough to fight Titanic and Monster units as well. Only thing he really lacks is the character keyword, for Orkz is Never Beaten.

He got charged by a 20 strong seeker unit. he swipe attacked 10 of them away. it was awesome.

 Quackzo wrote:

Spoiler:

 r_squared wrote:

 Quackzo wrote:
How are people feeling about deathskulls trukk boyz? I'm workshopping a list with a brigade that features some MSU units of boyz, 10-12 boyz with kombi rocket nob and boy lugging around a rokkit. I've been contemplating chucking them in trukks to boost their mobility and survibility, which ends up being about 13ppm.
It's on the list of a dozen other ideas I'm contemplating but at the moment it's the idea I'm least certain of. For context I'm entering a local tourney that I suspect will use the Eternal War Missions from CA2018. After giving those missions a read through I've noticed that some demand you use troops to capture objectives, some rely heavily on mobility, and some rely on being outright killy.

I've run a similar load out for trucks full of shoota Boyz a number of times, and if your tourney allows index options, it can be made very strong indeed by bunging a rokkit on the truck and throwing in a mini mek with kmb too.
Each fully loaded truck then has 3 units with re-rollable deathskulls culture. It's done very good work for me, in the past. In a 2000 point list I've got 6 trucks in supported by 9 Smashas, 3 deffkoptas with big boms and kmbs, 2x SAG and a Big mek on warbike with kff super cybork and kunnin but brutal.
With a brigade detachment and vanguard, you have plenty of cp to chuck about, I put a lot of guys in the teleporta and move the rest about after deploying using the warlord trait to really mess with my op.
It can be very strong indeed, and you're not reliant on CPs and strategems, thanks to all the natural re-rolls.

Thanks for the advice. I don't think I could swing 6 trukk boyz but was hoping to get by with 3 units of trukk boyz and do grots in the other 3 troop slots for grot shields on the obligatory SSAG big mek. Already have the KMB deffkoptas in their as they're *slightly* cheaper and I plan to use them to either sniper characters or aide in my anti-tank.
I was contemplating the mek boyz with kustom mega sluggas (was planning KMB but can't determine if it's 100% allowed due to the wording in the index vs codex datasheets) but I may or may not be mimicking parts of Steve's list so I'll have my elite slots filled up with big shoota kommandos and grotsnik. My main motive with the deathskulls brigade is to focus on mobility and objectives.
I have a dozen other ideas for this army but I'll save that discussion for after the FAQ.

This is a tweak of my usual list that I've run a couple of times, it's pretty strong stuff tbh. In this one I've burnt 5cp before starting with 2 extra shiney gubbins, warphead and Dread Waaaagh! This leaves me 11cp for extra ammo, teleporta and grot shields. That can be tailored to suit your taste.

Brigade Deathskulls 1999pts PL115

HQ
Big Mek KFF, grot oiler
Big Mek on Warbike, KFF, Super cybork
Warphead, Da Jump, skorched gitbonez.

Troops
6x Boss Nob kombi-rokkit, choppa, 9x Shoota Boyz, TB bomb, rokkit launcha

Elites
3x Mek with KMB

Fast attack
3x Deffkopta, KMB, Bigbomm

Heavy support
3x Smasha
3x Smasha
2x Smasha

Dedicated transport
6x Trukk with rokkit launcha

Vanguard Det, Deathskulls, Dread Waaaagh!

HQ
Big Mek SSAG, Grot oiler, Warlord, Big Killa Boss

Troops
3x gretchin

Elites
3x Mek, KMB.

Build your castle of Smasha guns, SSAG, grot screens and KFF Mek, zip about with trucks and koptas grabbing objectives, warphead for surprise mortal wounds or grabbing tough objectives.
I always take the skorched gitbonez on my warphead, as I like him to be independent as much as possible, besides there aren't too many ork units on the table when this is deployed.
It's a fun, surprisingly powerful, mobile list which can handle most things that have been put on the table in front of me so far.

I really like it, but don't you have 6 meks with kmb?


Doesn't that seem a bit....illegal?

 vercingatorix wrote:
I really like it, but don't you have 6 meks with kmb?


Doesn't that seem a bit....illegal?

The index version allows you to equip the KMB, but obviously that only works as long as you're in an environment that allows index rules.
The neat thing is that not only do the provide re-rollable punch, they can repair a wound a turn in the truck you're riding in. With a kff, and ramshackle, it's could end up being quite frustrating for your opponent.

Edit;
My apologies, you're referring to the rule of 3. That would make the extra 3 meks illegal. For a tournament I'd swop out meks for kommandos, and adjust the amount of mek guns to compensate.

he meant you had 6 of them.
Rule of 3.

Meks can't repair while in a Trukk. Or any transport. Units in a Transport are not considered to be on the board. Thus, even though common sense says the Mek is within 3" of the Trukk, it actually isn't.

 flandarz wrote:
Meks can't repair while in a Trukk. Or any transport. Units in a Transport are not considered to be on the board. Thus, even though common sense says the Mek is within 3" of the Trukk, it actually isn't.

You're quite right, but at least you have the opportunity to disembark and effect repairs subject to the usual restrictions.

It's quite useful that I've published this list up and had some feedback. I've been playing this list as is with the intention of taking it to a tournament towards the end if the year. The rule of 3 slipped my mind completely, I guess because the mini mek is such a small and usually inconsequential unit but in this combo adds a nice extra kick to the shoota wagons.

As it happens I've had a little swap about and will trial out a variant that replaces the 3 meks and 3 units of shoota boys with tankbustas. So still 6 trucks on the table, but now even more rokkits.

 flandarz wrote:

Yeah, Grots can be Da Jumped. Probably better off using it to throw them onto Objectives though. They still get Zog Off, and if the Objective is in Cover, they can be surprisingly annoying to get off of it.

Against some armies(footslogging assault armies in particular) I love creating 60" wide wall 9" front of enemy army. Have fun stopping there. Particularly annoying for enemy that can cover lot more than that usually. Say kraken genestealers that could cover like 40" in a turn and have to slow down noticably due to bunch of grots front of them. Knights also get slight speed bumb from that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 flandarz wrote:
Yeah. And the only reason the SSAG is worth spending 1CP on (for Dread Waagh) is for shooting again with Kustom Ammo. So you can shoot twice with your Lootas *and* your SSAG. You take away Kustom Ammo and you're probably better off spending that 1 CP on a Command Reroll for the Lootas.

Unless you have like 20+ CP I would rather save those 2 CP for shooting one more time with the lootas instead. Random stats make SAG rather unreliable way to spend 2CP. Even before SSAG I ran out of 18 CP in no time so spending 2CP for shooting SSAG again would def cut number of shoot twice for lootas. And lootas are lot more reliable damage dealers than SAG that has to roll every stat again when it shoots 2nd time.

Remember that you have to desembark at the start of the movement phase and than repair at the end of the movement phase. If you disembark and than move the truck , you cant repair itaa you need to be within 1".
At best the minimek are good to repair mek gunz, but I would take em bare without the kmb

Move the mek where you intend to move trukk? Unless trukk still needs to move should be possible. 3+1+5+d6 mek move plus repair range

I find the ssag to be unreliable. For example last game I played used kustom ammo two turns in a row on it, total of 8d6 shots, one set of them was str 11. From 8d6 shots I score a total of 6 damage against a T8 3+/5++ model.

The problem is the Str is random, then the # of shots are random. You could end up blowing a reroll on the strength of the shot, and roll below average for number of shots, then roll average for everything else and it's just not impressive. The more rolls you have to make rolling high before you can resolve the effect the less reliable something is, especially over multiple turns in multiple games(tournament).

Thats pretty much the whole point. Its random, but since doubles dont do something bad 99% of the time now its actually usable despite being random.
Technically the SAG has always been pretty good, but ALL doubles except 5s and 6s were really, really bad and even 5s werent that great. Thus, too random.

The non-SSAG in 8th doesnt fire enough shots, thats its only issue.

I remember the days when that magical 12 on the shokk gun simply removed whatever was under the template. Then again if you got a 2 then it removed everything around the mek. Ah, good times.

blaktoof wrote:
I find the ssag to be unreliable. For example last game I played used kustom ammo two turns in a row on it, total of 8d6 shots, one set of them was str 11. From 8d6 shots I score a total of 6 damage against a T8 3+/5++ model.

Well you rolled more than average S11+ then. That's 1/12 chance.

You shouldn't be counting on 11+. Problem is you are going to be getting less than 7 42% of times. Or less than 7 shots 42% times. So one of those is going to happen fairly often(66% times indeed at least one of them is under 7).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Thats pretty much the whole point. Its random, but since doubles dont do something bad 99% of the time now its actually usable despite being random.
Technically the SAG has always been pretty good, but ALL doubles except 5s and 6s were really, really bad and even 5s werent that great. Thus, too random.

The non-SSAG in 8th doesnt fire enough shots, thats its only issue.

Yeah. But doesn't exactly encourage me to spend 2 CP to fire it again. It's fine for one shooting. But those 2 CP I rather spend shooting lootas again. Much more reliable and short of some brigade(hard to get without index)+battallion+battallion I don't have enough CP to power up lootas AND SSAG twice a turn for long enough.

blaktoof wrote:
I find the ssag to be unreliable. For example last game I played used kustom ammo two turns in a row on it, total of 8d6 shots, one set of them was str 11. From 8d6 shots I score a total of 6 damage against a T8 3+/5++ model.

The problem is the Str is random, then the # of shots are random. You could end up blowing a reroll on the strength of the shot, and roll below average for number of shots, then roll average for everything else and it's just not impressive. The more rolls you have to make rolling high before you can resolve the effect the less reliable something is, especially over multiple turns in multiple games(tournament).

That is why you NEVER shoot at a PBC. Is not the SSAG, is statistics. DG is by far the worst enemy for orks IMHO, you can mitigate the minus as much as you want, but the combination of high T, excellent saves, Invu and FNP vs. our 5+ BS is a grind fest.
I´m never happy to meet a DG+Daemon list, they are a pain in the ass.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

cody.d. wrote:
I remember the days when that magical 12 on the shokk gun simply removed whatever was under the template. Then again if you got a 2 then it removed everything around the mek. Ah, good times.

I honestly also miss the funny, crazy randomness of the good old days.
I know now what am I gonna say next Big Survey