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 Emicrania wrote:
That is why you NEVER shoot at a PBC. Is not the SSAG, is statistics. DG is by far the worst enemy for orks IMHO, you can mitigate the minus as much as you want, but the combination of high T, excellent saves, Invu and FNP vs. our 5+ BS is a grind fest.
I´m never happy to meet a DG+Daemon list, they are a pain in the ass.

You really think so? I have not met a decent ork player with my DG so far, but in my opinion one of their biggest weaknesses is not being able to remove hordes fast enough. All those 2d6 flamers are great and all, but in the end you still pay 150+ points to kill 6-8 models - awesome against marines or genestealers, terrible against guardsmen, gaunts, daemon troops or boyz. Outside of Mortarion and pox walkers I don't think there is anything that can efficiently kill a unit of 30 boyz.

About shooting PBC... yeah, don't do that. The only model that has efficiently killed one of my PBC so far is nu Abbadon and he just triggered 1d3 mortal wounds for half his army doing that. No matter how annoying they are, tarpit and ignore PBC.

Anybody ever did the maths on a Deathskull SSAG with the Oppurtunist Warlord Trait?

Instead of +1 to wound aginst vehicles he gets to reroll all ones as well as rerolling an additional woundroll. Which might be kinda equal to Big killa boss in outcome. However he has this other nifty trick which lets him shoot at enemy characters within 18" which is potentially awesome as the SSAG makes a big smear of all/most characters.

Big issue is raege. At 18" you eupose yourself to lot more threats and many armies have no need to walk within 18" of it. Add to that issues with los and seems very situational. Albeit you can swjp to that if enemy army is suitable

It is indeed situational as the range is an issue. But when you pull it off it can be nice. It might also make sure your opponent thinks twice before moving a character within 18" (or 23").

If you are in good position to shoot(that's tall location with good LOS everywhere that makes harder to attack you in h2h) that area enemy needs to come is very close indeed as you can be like 8-10" up high anyway. And moving forward isn't reducing distance that fast anyway. And then you suffer -1 to hit so hit on 6's unless you use more dakka which then costs 2 CP and could be used for more reliable unit or to shoot again...That's a LOT of expenses spent on rather unreliable weapon that could whiff either shots or S's easily.

I'm struggling to come up with army you would want that.

As for math assuming you normally wound on 4+(S7 vs many vehicles since the +1 to wound is vs vehicles/monsters many which are T7) you would have 58% wound chance vs 66%. VS T8+ you would be having 38% vs 50%. If you wound normally on 3+ that's 80.5% vs 83%.

So basically you are trading less wounds against vehicles regardless of what you wound normally(if you wound on 3+ it's least difference). And deathskull trait doesn't work vs monsters so that's big tradeoff for situational sniper ability.

Good thing warlord traits aren't fixed generally in tournaments so you can change it if you do run up against army you want sniper.

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cody.d. wrote:
I remember the days when that magical 12 on the shokk gun simply removed whatever was under the template. Then again if you got a 2 then it removed everything around the mek. Ah, good times.

I honestly also miss the funny, crazy randomness of the good old days.
I know now what am I gonna say next Big Survey

Random can be fun but GW's idea of random is "how badly did you feth up?" with one potentially amazing outcome to balance it out.

All of the doubles except 5s and 6s either resulted in SAG death in one way or another, or might as well have been "It fizzled out, move on to next unit to shoot with"

SAG isnt the only one to do that its just the most well known one. Most random effects had a bad habit of utterly screwing you over more than either helping or being neutral.

But they were fun. Both the SAG, whir-whir-click-click and what about the old rules for trukks when they were destroyed? I miss the random and unexpected stuff which could happen to my orkies.

 Singleton Mosby wrote:
But they were fun. Both the SAG, whir-whir-click-click and what about the old rules for trukks when they were destroyed? I miss the random and unexpected stuff which could happen to my orkies.

yeah but 8th is already too lethal to have extra things that hurt yourself. It already sucks when you perils of the warp.

The trukk ramshackle was probably the ONLY random effect that felt fair. It was just as likely to drive backwards into your own boyz as it was careening forward into the enemy ranks.
And i do miss that rule, though in the current vehicle rules it might be a bit wonky.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:
That is why you NEVER shoot at a PBC. Is not the SSAG, is statistics. DG is by far the worst enemy for orks IMHO, you can mitigate the minus as much as you want, but the combination of high T, excellent saves, Invu and FNP vs. our 5+ BS is a grind fest.
I´m never happy to meet a DG+Daemon list, they are a pain in the ass.

You really think so? I have not met a decent ork player with my DG so far, but in my opinion one of their biggest weaknesses is not being able to remove hordes fast enough. All those 2d6 flamers are great and all, but in the end you still pay 150+ points to kill 6-8 models - awesome against marines or genestealers, terrible against guardsmen, gaunts, daemon troops or boyz. Outside of Mortarion and pox walkers I don't think there is anything that can efficiently kill a unit of 30 boyz.

About shooting PBC... yeah, don't do that. The only model that has efficiently killed one of my PBC so far is nu Abbadon and he just triggered 1d3 mortal wounds for half his army doing that. No matter how annoying they are, tarpit and ignore PBC.

My experience comes from playing freebooterz mechanised list vs 60+ plaguebearer , 3x PBC and like 7 characters.
I can see how they would have problem cleaning up hordes, for me is always a painful battle, which I never lost so far, bust still a psychological marathon....


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Quick question, does vector deny us the possiblity to use unstoppable green tide again or it just block it for a turn ?

Block for turn. It's been FAQ'ed that you can still use it later. Doesn't count as used.

 Emicrania wrote:
Do you reckon they will nerf the SSAG with the big FAQ?

If they wanted to nerf it, they probably wouldn't actually touch the relic but rather the requirements, or lack of, to get the detatchment. As it stands now, you just get a Big Mek w Shokk Attack Gun pay the 1cp and you can have it. Hopefully if they go this route, they make us take at least one of our robot units (Gorkanaut, Morkanaut, Deff Dread) and not have to spend a detatchment on a fortification network to get a Mekboy Workshop.

If they go that route better have it for EVERY vigilus detachment because SSAG doesn't work any differently to that. And it's not just 1 CP. It's 1 CP AND relic slot so if you want say ever usefull killa klaw it's 2CP. 1 more relic and you pay total of 3CP extra for the SSAG.

I really hope the don't mess with the SSAG. Too many of our other units are so useless.

Greenson Tide wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:
Do you reckon they will nerf the SSAG with the big FAQ?

If they wanted to nerf it, they probably wouldn't actually touch the relic but rather the requirements, or lack of, to get the detatchment. As it stands now, you just get a Big Mek w Shokk Attack Gun pay the 1cp and you can have it. Hopefully if they go this route, they make us take at least one of our robot units (Gorkanaut, Morkanaut, Deff Dread) and not have to spend a detatchment on a fortification network to get a Mekboy Workshop.

I dont think it is good enough to warrant a Nerf.

The only nerfage that’s likely imho is restricting mob up to boys units only.

But honestly I don’t think orks is an issue enough to warrant any nerf. They are making the top 16 in tournaments but haven’t made the leap to winning any major ones.

To be fair I see a lot of buffs to other armies and maybe a slight nerf to ynnari in their new dex. That’s my prediction. I’d say maybe a point increase to castallen but I think that ship has sailed if they haven’t done it yet.

Be nice to get a price drop on the Stompa, but that probably ain't happening either.

i'd love a buff to killa kanz in particular. I own 9 and never use them. They just get looked at wrong and die.

I really hope for some wide-spread price drops on things like rokkits, big shootas or kombi-weapons since Orks missed the collective drops on similar weapons for almost every other faction due to being too new.

Yeah it bugs the hell out of me seeing every powerfist at 9pts but our klaws are 13pts....
When we field more of them due to how our army works...

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Yeah it bugs the hell out of me seeing every powerfist at 9pts but our klaws are 13pts....
When we field more of them due to how our army works...

The answer i got when asking about why powerclaws are more expensive than power fists from a to be unnamed play tester was because orks generally speaking have more attacks so they factored it into the price of the weapon, whereas the durability of an ork nob or warboss is reflected in the platform (model getting the weapon). they could not balance the power claw or stabba with a cost of choppas and big choppa with the attack number on the platform so... costs more.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Yeah it bugs the hell out of me seeing every powerfist at 9pts but our klaws are 13pts....
When we field more of them due to how our army works...

Anything in our army that is a vehicle pretty much needs a price cut, but the walkers are the worst, I have 12 Kill Kanz collecting dust and it bothers me :( the PK/PF argument is hilarious because Marine players will argue both of these points at the same time: "PF have to cost less because our base models have fewer attacks so they aren't as good" "Ork shooting shouldn't be cheaper because that isn't their specialty" ive watched that play out so many times its annoying

Starting to get worried that GW is going to miss their own deadline again. I only wish they could become a bit better with their communication regarding when they aim to drop it, had they said around the end of the April in the beginning of the month then there wouldn't have been any issues. But the way they're doing it now, it can drop at any moment and any day, is just annoying IMO.

Regarding powerfist and powerklaw costs, IG get them for 8 and SM get them for 9 because they're better CC fighters. Ever since CA 2018 came out I've been proposing that means we get them for 10. That's fair. Same as chainfists (killsaws), they're 11 for SM which means we should get them for 12/18 for the pair.

I agree. If our CC wargear is priced high because we're better at CC, then our ranged options *should* be cheaper, because that's where we fall behind. Well, that and durability, but that's a whole other thing.

Killa kans are for sure! how overcosted are dreads? I don't think the mork/gork are overcosted at all really.They have been winning me games lately.


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I also created an article in general when I was curious about individual model shooting output. So far outside of warlord and other fw titans, the stompa is sitting at the top at 219 total damage potential.

Even with this, others in the post are talking about how bad it is, which is true but it could be gw's "explanation" for it's insane points cost.

Dreads for me just dont seem to do anything. Lack of attacks to deal with numbers or high invul or BIG vehicles reliably and they tend to die in one attempt to hurt them, even with a KFF around for some reason. Ive never had a dread just refuse to die or soak more than 2 units worth of shooting to finish off (not even talking anti-tank weapons here)

Theyre way better than they used to be but they still dont seem to do anything. Nauts are awesome though.

Dreadz just... underperform at everything that the Gork does. Even equivalent point cost (about 3 Dreadz) will still do worse than a Gork in everything except survivability (and that's just cuz they have a larger Wound pool and have to be targeted individually). I think they get a fair amount of CC attacks (6 with all Saws/Klaws), but even Tellyported in, they have issues getting into and staying in CC. If you try to balance them by taking some guns, they'll be underwhelming at both CC and shooting. With 4 Twin Shootas, they can be decent chaff clearing though.

Basically, Dreadz are very "all or nothing" when it comes to loadouts. They're decent, but compared to a Gork... well, you're better off with the Gork.

Okay. What's a good starting point for Orks?

Let's say I wanted to start small, around 500-1,000 points.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Okay. What's a good starting point for Orks?

Let's say I wanted to start small, around 500-1,000 points.

A safe bet would be 60-80 boys, 30 grots, warboss, big mek, weirdboy or 2, box or 2 of nobz, some lootas, maybe some tankbustas and a few trukks/battlewagons. But there are quite a few options out there