No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]

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**PiñaColada**

I've seen some people place them (and krew) on 100mm bases and that looks really good IMO. I've thought about doing it myself, especially since then you can go a bit crazier with conversions seeing as they'd be on the same base size anyways.

Not sure how hard people will come down on you in tournaments though, anything but the top tier stuff should be fine (and maybe even those). Just check with the TO beforehand

**Jidmah**

I'd probably go with some sort of regiment base - who knows how they will work next time GW tries to do artillery with crew rules.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Added a list to the first post I stumbled across and found interesting. Apparently some fellow Warboss placed 2nd in a rather large tournament with 0 boyz, 3 SAGs, 20 MANz and just 15 lootaz.

**Fan67**

Jidmah wrote:
I'd probably go with some sort of regiment base - who knows how they will work next time GW tries to do artillery with crew rules.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Added a list to the first post I stumbled across and found interesting. Apparently some fellow Warboss placed 2nd in a rather large tournament with 0 boyz, 3 SAGs, 20 MANz and just 15 lootaz.

I have yet to face the opponent, who would mention the lack of grots around the mek gunz. Mostly because their team frequently has the ork player with same approach, but also because they don’t give a damn. The tactical difference is miniscule.

But I am in the process of ripping grots from their bases and gluing them to the gunz itself. Probably going to base gunz afterwards, but it’s one of the long run projects.

Also I see that 20 mega-nobz list is 1995 points worth despite showing to cost 1999 points.
I am testing meganobz myself, but i cook them as a single squad of blood axes, who deep strikes along with 30 grots from the ambush and 30 grots from Da Jump. Lootas are far away and Tank Bustas are usualy on a suicide jump to kill vehicles.
So my opponent has 10 nobz with 60 grots shielding them and nothing else to shoot at.

The problems I face:
Meganobz miss a lot if they aren’t along the Nob Banner.
They are mostly a distraction rather then a killer unit.
Many armies can easily reap through 60 grots, especially with multi-wound attacks.

So I struggle to see how 20 meganobz instead of 20 can be a game-changer.

Any insights about his opponents and tactics?

**PiñaColada**

I don't think there's any way to deepstrike grots. So you'd only get 30 up there from da jump

**flandarz**

You could put Grots into a Tellyported Transport to DS them. That's probably it.

**Jidmah**

Fan67 wrote:
I have yet to face the opponent, who would mention the lack of grots around the mek gunz. Mostly because their team frequently has the ork player with same approach, but also because they don’t give a damn. The tactical difference is miniscule.

But I am in the process of ripping grots from their bases and gluing them to the gunz itself. Probably going to base gunz afterwards, but it’s one of the long run projects.

I was less thinking about the current rules than about the next codex/edition. Ever since 4th edition GW has changed how their artillery units work every single time they could. If you glue them to your gun today, you might find yourself unable to play our model properly under future rulesets - especially when you consider how odd the current crew rules are.

**tneva82**

Fan67 wrote:

I have yet to face the opponent, who would mention the lack of grots around the mek gunz. Mostly because their team frequently has the ork player with same approach, but also because they don’t give a damn. The tactical difference is miniscule.

I would. I get hindered a lot by the grot taking space. That effect is actually big if you have lots of guns. Don't cheat like that and expect to get a free pass on it.

Also I see that 20 mega-nobz list is 1995 points worth despite showing to cost 1999 points.
I am testing meganobz myself, but i cook them as a single squad of blood axes, who deep strikes along with 30 grots from the ambush and 30 grots from Da Jump. Lootas are far away and Tank Bustas are usualy on a suicide jump to kill vehicles.

Max 10 mega nobs on unit.

Many armies can easily reap through 60 grots, especially with multi-wound attacks.

Bolter, lascannon, irrelevant. Max 1 grot dies.

**flandarz**

I personally like the Grot Krew. They can take up surprising amount of space, preventing DS to your backfield. 5 or 6 Mek Gunz, with appropriately placed Krew, can handle that. And since their Movement is so bad, they got Heavy weapons, and they have a solid Range, they do DS prevention better than pretty much anything else.

**Emicrania**

I think I'll just fix 6 120mm mdf base and that's it. I have literally 0 time to do anything else. I might loan some horribly painted grots to fill in otherwise.
@Jidmah, I'd love to see the list, care to post a short copypasta of it with klanz and relics?

**Jidmah**

Emicrania wrote:
@Jidmah, I'd love to see the list, care to post a short copypasta of it with klanz and relics?

It's in the first post, the list by Liam Hackett at Briscon. I found it while randomly browsing reddit. Since he went second at a tournament with 71 players with a rather unique list, I thought he was worth mentioning there.

**tneva82**

Was it pre or after mob up nerf? Or were the meganobz used as 2 units anyway?

**Jidmah**

tneva82 wrote:
Was it pre or after mob up nerf? Or were the meganobz used as 2 units anyway?

The tournament was on the one 28th, so pre-FAQ... which is probably true for all tournaments in April.

**tneva82**

Well don't know date tournament was held or even month. But I already got tournament with FAQ in so was wondering if it was same weekend.

Any idea were the meganobz used in one or two unit? If one then that list might not work as well anymore.

**Jidmah**

According to reddit the idea behind MANz is to tellyported both units in for bullying units off objectives, pretty much exactly what other armies (DG/TS) are using their terminators for.
I don't see a reason why he would mob them up afterwards.

No word if that's actually what he did though.

**G00fySmiley**

tneva82 wrote:
Went to competive tournament. 2k, no flowchart. Organizer ruled SSAG to work more like it worked before(and I can actually see the point. Pretty much every other unit rolls random stats after target selection. Why sag suddenly is sole snowflake?). No big deal though. Such a rare case it would help especially with my build that no big deal. Oh and tournament also said screw you to the deployment zone FAQ so in the scenanario where we deploy on corners any of the 4 corners was valid choise. Oh and something that I ran into mid tournament though actually tournament pack had mention of it...NO DETACHMENT AMOUNT LIMITATION! Sure pack said no detachment restrictions but somehow I read that to mean no additional to the standard max 3. Well not that it really matters for orks here as HQ tax becomes issue. Oh and I ran out of grots

Anyway 3 battallions. Evil sun with 2x30 boyz, 10 grots, warboss, weirdboy. Death skull with 3x10 boyz, ssag, weirdboy. evil sun with badruk, weirdboy, 30 boyx, 2x30 grots, runtherd. and 4 smasha gun, 3 traktor kannon and kmk.

First up toooooons of IG. 3 tank commanders, several infantry squad, 3x3 mortars, wyvern, basilisk, crusader, 2 helverin.

Went first. Had to move both lootas and SSAG to get LOS. Opted ssag for more dakka. Alas made mistake and fired at crusader for 20 wounds but all this meant was 1 CP spent each turn to shoot at full strength. Never got killing blow. He went out of LOS to ssag and cleared mek guns fast(that relic battle cannon sucks). Once got close(already rolled damage) but 4++ saved from traktor kannon.

Turn 2 caused 9 wounds to 2 russ commander but not vs relic one(out of LOS). Turn 3 2 wounds to basilisk and then warboss went and killed it. But after his turn 3 all I had left was weirdboy. Bad moon boyz were killed twice.

Opponent thought I should have brought evil suns on t2 but deep strike screen was so far I could charge vs something big on t4 anyway and no units close to each other for trapping either.

Game 2. Vs IG battallion+deathwatch battallion+scion battallion+knight aux(this is where I found out about no detachment limit...). 3 squads of 10 deathwatch guys, jump pack guy, 3x5 scion troops, couple AM squads, 3x3 mortars, crusader.

Game of invulnerable knight. He goes first, does very little(knight fired everything vs 6 grots. Moral victory right here! Albeit that was 2 vp and 1 kill point kill so not completely pointless...but that was only unit that died(he did that precisely to kill 1 unit for maelstrom card + first strike + kill point). My turn. Very little moving. I sent bad moon boyz to charge vs 2 AM squad. Lootas cleared 5 AM infantry from 2 squads(1 shot per loota sucks. Twice...). Mek guns cleared more of them so 4 and 1 left after morale rolls. SSAG fired at crusader(only vehicle on board). First some pittiful and 2 wounds. He saves both with 4++. Then 11 S11 shots. YEY! 4 hits...drat. Well 4d3 mortals gives 6. He triggers 5++ vs mortals and...saves 3. Drat. Well 4 inv saves. 1 fail. And free reroll from warlord saves that...

What? 11 S11 shots and I get measely 3 wounds total...Mek guns cause at least 8 more despite command reroll saving yet another.

That could have gone better.

T2 scion squads(2) drop nearby mek guns. He hopes to charge 1 to get into objective. Plan fails. He kills very little except bad moons that just all die.

My turn. Da jump to lootas fail. This was big. I was planning to da jump them to see 10 deathwatch guy. So now the 2 evil sun squads had gone there(backups). Shooting. SSAG fails to do much vs the knight. 4 rounds, the thing was still going strong. Mek guns had no more LOS. Lootas vaporized scions and 2 AM squads and scion commander. Evil suns charged vs deathwatch. One was stopped in track by stratagem but luckily that's vs 1 unit only so second made it and after morale all 9 were dead. Crucially this gave me 6th kill for turn so got 5vp card completed!

T3. He blew out the wounded evil sun unit completely and charged the other unit. Crucially he didn't kill enough to green tide them.

My turn. Evil sun boyz fall back and SSAG fires again....And the damn knight is STILL STANDING! 6 rounds and the damn thing was still standing. Mek guns failed also. Lootas da jump failed as well. Sigh. Well did vaporize one deathwatch squad badly. Warboss charged them and jump pack captain trying to kill captain. 4 wounds. 3 saves on 4++...And killed in return. Sigh.

T4. Last turn. He killed evil suns for good. Not much else. My turn. Badruk da jumped to hopefully kill his deathwatch warlord but failed utterly. SSAG...With big game hunter on line...Failed to cause even wound and the knight survived 2 hits from smasha gun so 6 wound left it was standing still...

Bleargh. Well 13-7 win anyway. I got more cards. Eternal war progressive objective scoring was about dead even.

Game 3. Ad mech of doom. 3x3 some tracked guys with S6 -2 dd6 vs vehicle 2 shot weapons, 6 or 9 more of them. Several plasma bots, cawl, 3 onagers, assasin, something else. He got 1st turn. I tried to deploy back but 42"+move and no issue. After his 1st turn all mek guns, over half bad moon grots and 12 lootas dead. I just rolled for SSAG for fun getting exact 4 wounds to one. I called it quits. Wasn't going to make a dent and he would just blow me up with ease. Better use of time go home early.

SSAG / SAG is ruled differently because it is unique (well i guess technically shared with the bubbachucker but who actualyl takes that), it rolls the str stat before firing. you still roll the number of shots after target (which is what other armies do after choosing target) GW was listening to complaints of choosing a vehicle and then rolling a 3-4 for str.

**tneva82**

It rolls before but that's because of this FAQ when it's hardly quaranteed it's intention. GW is well known for making these things that are legal RAW but not RAI and not know their own stages. Remember it was possible to ignore rotate ion shields by declare 2 knights as target and then shoot heavy bolter into the rotated one and volcano cannon into non rotated...

Why only SAG gets this and not others? Every other similar unit with random S also complains about same thing yet only SAG gets it? Very random change. From source that has proven that they dont' even know their own rules or phases time and time again...

**G00fySmiley**

tneva82 wrote:
It rolls before but that's because of this FAQ when it's hardly quaranteed it's intention. GW is well known for making these things that are legal RAW but not RAI and not know their own stages. Remember it was possible to ignore rotate ion shields by declare 2 knights as target and then shoot heavy bolter into the rotated one and volcano cannon into non rotated...

Why only SAG gets this and not others? Every other similar unit with random S also complains about same thing yet only SAG gets it? Very random change. From source that has proven that they dont' even know their own rules or phases time and time again...

what other random Str weapon is there of relivance? the bubba chucka is a throwback to the goofy days of orks (i liek it and use it in open war games but would never take it to a tournament), i am trying to find another army with a randome str weapon in battlescribe but failing.

**Jidmah**

Death Guards Foul Blightspawn is pretty much a SAG flamer. Roll 2d6 for strength, 1d6 shots, 9" and auto-hits.

**G00fySmiley**

Jidmah wrote:
Death Guards Foul Blightspawn is pretty much a SAG flamer. Roll 2d6 for strength, 1d6 shots, 9" and auto-hits.

interesting, did not know that, i don't knwo any DG players in my area. but would liek to see that too on the str before target. its jsu tto random other.

honestly I also witsh GW would make 1d6 shot weapons into 2d3 wepaons for more consistancy.

**Jidmah**

G00fySmiley wrote:
Jidmah wrote:
Death Guards Foul Blightspawn is pretty much a SAG flamer. Roll 2d6 for strength, 1d6 shots, 9" and auto-hits.

interesting, did not know that, i don't knwo any DG players in my area. but would liek to see that too on the str before target. its jsu tto random other.

honestly I also witsh GW would make 1d6 shot weapons into 2d3 wepaons for more consistancy.

The 9" range makes that a non-issue since you pretty much decide what to shoot during your movement phase. It's an awesome model though, it has both one-shot a hemlock wraithfighter and failed to kill a single gretchin, much like the SSAG big killa boss.

**Singleton Mosby**

Emicrania wrote:
That is why my mek gunz have no crew, they are basically useless

I have based my Mek gun conversions on Chimera and Trukk chassis. This makes them a bit larger then usual, but never have anyone comment (other then positive) about those. Not even at major tourneys. Next time I will field five or six at the local GT and don't expect any issue at all.

G00fySmiley wrote:

SSAG / SAG is ruled differently because it is unique (well i guess technically shared with the bubbachucker but who actualyl takes that), it rolls the str stat before firing. you still roll the number of shots after target (which is what other armies do after choosing target) GW was listening to complaints of choosing a vehicle and then rolling a 3-4 for str.

A few pages back some peeps said it is possible to decide on target after rolling for strength due to some new wording in the FAQ. Is there any consesus about what is the right way now?

**G00fySmiley**

Singleton Mosby wrote:
Emicrania wrote:
That is why my mek gunz have no crew, they are basically useless

I have based my Mek gun conversions on Chimera and Trukk chassis. This makes them a bit larger then usual, but never have anyone comment (other then positive) about those. Not even at major tourneys. Next time I will field five or six at the local GT and don't expect any issue at all.

G00fySmiley wrote:

SSAG / SAG is ruled differently because it is unique (well i guess technically shared with the bubbachucker but who actualyl takes that), it rolls the str stat before firing. you still roll the number of shots after target (which is what other armies do after choosing target) GW was listening to complaints of choosing a vehicle and then rolling a 3-4 for str.

A few pages back some peeps said it is possible to decide on target after rolling for strength due to some new wording in the FAQ. Is there any consesus about what is the right way now?

based on the wording you do roll for str before target, full stop. The argument against is that sayign that the specific wording is somehow being misinterpreted for intent when it cannot be read that way at all. FAQ is stating you roll for strength when choosing the model to shoot. based on order of operations you choos the model to shoot with (by faq also roll str here), then pick the target, then roll numebr of shots. Any TO or player arguing against it is choosing to nerf orks, plain and simple. I do think the other DG model that does random str shoudl also et to roll str first as well, though as stated above as a flamer you likely chose your target in the movment phase vs the logner range SAG

**Emicrania**

Singleton Mosby wrote:
Emicrania wrote:
That is why my mek gunz have no crew, they are basically useless

I have based my Mek gun conversions on Chimera and Trukk chassis. This makes them a bit larger then usual, but never have anyone comment (other then positive) about those. Not even at major tourneys. Next time I will field five or six at the local GT and don't expect any issue at all.

G00fySmiley wrote:

SSAG / SAG is ruled differently because it is unique (well i guess technically shared with the bubbachucker but who actualyl takes that), it rolls the str stat before firing. you still roll the number of shots after target (which is what other armies do after choosing target) GW was listening to complaints of choosing a vehicle and then rolling a 3-4 for str.

A few pages back some peeps said it is possible to decide on target after rolling for strength due to some new wording in the FAQ. Is there any consesus about what is the right way now?

Nice flex on those Gunz and kudos to you for the army

Given the shooting sequence and the faq;
1)Select the unit
2) roll for S
3) select target
keep on reading

Ps. sorry for paint quality img right there.

**CaptainO**

I used a Evil Sunz blitz brigade to great effect this weekend. I ran 2 battlewagons, one with deff rolla one bare, both ard case and a bonebreaker, two squads of 30 boys, a squad of 10, 3x10 grots, Wartrike, Warboss, two weirdboyz 3 squads of stormboyz, squad of nobs a squad of Kommandos and a nob with waaagh banner. I also run a Big Mek with KFF in a different detachment. I've Developed a trick that worked a charm that I haven't seen anywhere before.

All 3 of the vehicles contain 10 grots. These act as ablative wounds when the get blown up and can then act as human shields for the troops inside once they've disembarked. I start the the game with pretty much all the characters inside transports,the warboss and nob with waaagh banner are in the bonebreaker.

Before t1 I spend the 3CP to make the KFF 18" which covers all 3 vehicles and any ork boyz who aren't already out of LoS.

If I go second the 5++ and T8 with 16 w mean the vehicles can absord a serious amound of punishment.

When its my turn I disembark the Nob with Waaagh banner if he's not already outside and move him within 3" of the most mobile vehicle. I give the Warboss the back seat driver trait so if his vehicle is still running thats my go to.

Basically I advance the mek with 18" KFF towards the enemy and I use the "hold on Boyz" strat on the Nob with Waagh Banner to drop him up to 15+d6" forward. I then mob up the squad of 30 with the squad of 10, give them warpath and then da jump (the weirdboyz hop out of their vehicles and move so they are within 10" of 30 models) them 9" away from the enemy but within the 18" bubble of the KFF and with one model within 6" of the nob with Waaagh banner.

In the assault phase the bonebreaker assaults the frontline (thanks to my wartrike). Depending on the distance you can use the 3d6 strat which combined with the back seat driver trait gives an awesome range. I even used the 1cp strat the allow for 3d6 pick the highest for number of additional hits. This charge eats the greater good overwatch from any tau. bonebreakers and battlewagons are hitting on 2+ thanks the waaaagh banner.

I then assault in the 40 squad of boys who all have an extra attack and are hitting on 2+. I equip mine with shootas to thin out a few units I'm going to charge.

I didn't try it but I'm keen to then try the fight twice to guarantee a tri point.

It should be noted that I spend 5 CP before the game and then spanked 16 more t1 (double shooting a SSAG with extra dakka)

40 boyz and a tank t1 delivery really changes opponents battle plans.

**tneva82**

G00fySmiley wrote:
Singleton Mosby wrote:
Emicrania wrote:
That is why my mek gunz have no crew, they are basically useless

I have based my Mek gun conversions on Chimera and Trukk chassis. This makes them a bit larger then usual, but never have anyone comment (other then positive) about those. Not even at major tourneys. Next time I will field five or six at the local GT and don't expect any issue at all.

G00fySmiley wrote:

SSAG / SAG is ruled differently because it is unique (well i guess technically shared with the bubbachucker but who actualyl takes that), it rolls the str stat before firing. you still roll the number of shots after target (which is what other armies do after choosing target) GW was listening to complaints of choosing a vehicle and then rolling a 3-4 for str.

A few pages back some peeps said it is possible to decide on target after rolling for strength due to some new wording in the FAQ. Is there any consesus about what is the right way now?

based on the wording you do roll for str before target, full stop. The argument against is that sayign that the specific wording is somehow being misinterpreted for intent when it cannot be read that way at all. FAQ is stating you roll for strength when choosing the model to shoot. based on order of operations you choos the model to shoot with (by faq also roll str here), then pick the target, then roll numebr of shots. Any TO or player arguing against it is choosing to nerf orks, plain and simple. I do think the other DG model that does random str shoudl also et to roll str first as well, though as stated above as a flamer you likely chose your target in the movment phase vs the logner range SAG

So you would also ignore rotate ion shield with target 2, shoot big gun vs rotateless?

Gw doesn't understand it's own phases.
Oh and gw still hasn't made rules so that assault weapons actually do something...
Oh and others what about oblits?

**G00fySmiley**

tneva82 wrote:
G00fySmiley wrote:
Singleton Mosby wrote:
Emicrania wrote:
That is why my mek gunz have no crew, they are basically useless

I have based my Mek gun conversions on Chimera and Trukk chassis. This makes them a bit larger then usual, but never have anyone comment (other then positive) about those. Not even at major tourneys. Next time I will field five or six at the local GT and don't expect any issue at all.

G00fySmiley wrote:

SSAG / SAG is ruled differently because it is unique (well i guess technically shared with the bubbachucker but who actualyl takes that), it rolls the str stat before firing. you still roll the number of shots after target (which is what other armies do after choosing target) GW was listening to complaints of choosing a vehicle and then rolling a 3-4 for str.

A few pages back some peeps said it is possible to decide on target after rolling for strength due to some new wording in the FAQ. Is there any consesus about what is the right way now?

based on the wording you do roll for str before target, full stop. The argument against is that sayign that the specific wording is somehow being misinterpreted for intent when it cannot be read that way at all. FAQ is stating you roll for strength when choosing the model to shoot. based on order of operations you choos the model to shoot with (by faq also roll str here), then pick the target, then roll numebr of shots. Any TO or player arguing against it is choosing to nerf orks, plain and simple. I do think the other DG model that does random str shoudl also et to roll str first as well, though as stated above as a flamer you likely chose your target in the movment phase vs the logner range SAG

So you would also ignore rotate ion shield with target 2, shoot big gun vs rotateless?

Gw doesn't understand it's own phases.
Oh and gw still hasn't made rules so that assault weapons actually do something...
Oh and others what about oblits?

they literally changed the wording there, the only interpretation of the SAG wording change is to clarify that the str is rolled before the target is chosen. otherwise there was no reason to do it. this is not a case of if we read this as ___ it coudl mean ____ or ____." this is "hey change the order in which you are rolling for strength from this gun from what it is currently doing because current useage of pickign target then rolling str should be changed"

**Fan67**

CaptainO wrote:I used a Evil Sunz blitz brigade to great effect this weekend. I ran 2 battlewagons, one with deff rolla one bare, both ard case and a bonebreaker, two squads of 30 boys, a squad of 10, 3x10 grots, Wartrike, Warboss, two weirdboyz 3 squads of stormboyz, squad of nobs a squad of Kommandos and a nob with waaagh banner. I also run a Big Mek with KFF in a different detachment. I've Developed a trick that worked a charm that I haven't seen anywhere before.

The problem with all the wagons is that they are severely overcosted for what they give.
And many armies will chew through them easily even under the protection of KFF.

Couple weeks ago there were a big (over 100 players) tournament in Moscow, and wagons didn’t shine at all.
They also suffer from the terrain due to obscene footprint: unfortunate Ruins in the middle, and you spend extra turn to get into position.
I played as a Genestealer Cult vs bonecrusher list, and Ruins helped me to trap the wagons in very unfortunate positions.
Hammer and Anvil against shooty opponents also very hard to counter: Imperial Guard is very common nowadays, Castellan will remain in rosters even after the nerf, eldars are moving to the flyer-heavy lists, etc.

I don’t believe in them untill the CA2019 cuts the prices.

PiñaColada wrote:I don't think there's any way to deepstrike grots. So you'd only get 30 up there from da jump

I don’t know how the hell did I forgot about that, but i’ve cheated last two games by placing 30 grots into DS by Blood Axe’s stratagem.
With only 30 grots from Da Jump to shield them MegaNobz are even more debatable choice. Gonna try that roster from Briscon this weekend, may be will change one squad of Nobz for a Morkanaut, but not sure... Anyway, Meganobz feel better than Boyz. I think 30 boyz is a max in current meta.

**flandarz**

The only issue I got with MANz is that they don't get a lot of attacks, and the Klaws make their WS worse. So assaulting the enemy lines always seems lackluster, even if they're hard to kill. Honestly, I think they might be better if you just Da Jump them to Objectives and sit them in cover. But, for the most part, I'm not really feeling MANz anymore.

**Jidmah**

flandarz wrote:
The only issue I got with MANz is that they don't get a lot of attacks, and the Klaws make their WS worse. So assaulting the enemy lines always seems lackluster, even if they're hard to kill. Honestly, I think they might be better if you just Da Jump them to Objectives and sit them in cover. But, for the most part, I'm not really feeling MANz anymore.

That's pretty much what people are doing though. Terminators/MANz teleport onto objectives, clear out whatever is holding it and them sit on them until the end of the game because the things which could remove efficiently them are busy elsewhere. Not flashy, but tends to win games.

**tneva82**

Here rarely holding 1 objective would win though. Maybe you have secure or defend but after that sit there hoping to score point or two in the end while opponent is busy raking vp's elsewhere more than that.

Maybe works in some missions but at least here you need to be able to control varying objectives/score other tasks and preferably able to hold objectives in the end as well. Expensive unit sitting in one place all game isn't doing that.