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About only time I feel like "wish I had blood axe" is when enemy rhino/venom/chimera/whatever charges into the boyz. Which albeit is fairly often. Still not worth the tradeoff for the extra reliability on deep strike charge. If foot slogging across field was viable that could be different though.

gungo wrote:
To answer the question above about how storm boyz got better in the faq. Fly was fixed

Cheers.


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 flandarz wrote:
I still don't buy into the mindset that we're "not top table material" or "gatekeepers". The OP has 4 armies that placed in the top 3 for tournaments, and we had two armies make it into the top 20 (in an 800+ person tournament) a few months back or so. At the end of the day, I think we probably have one of the best, if not *the* best mono army in the game right now. Even with the Loota nerf. And while I agree we can't stack up to Imp Soup or Flyer Spam, if those are the only two army types that can keep us down, then I can't really complain.

100%. There are so many different options. It all depends on how the armies are played. Orks are demonstrably able to win games, even placing in the top tables. No doubt chapter approved will rebalance some units but we still have options. Personally I'd say a good build is a 1/3 the work, correct deployment is another 1/3 and the rest is in game skill.


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 Emicrania wrote:

gungo wrote:
To answer the question above about how storm boyz got better in the faq. Fly was fixed

This, you can jump over chaff in order to charge backline.
I like your strategy, one question though, how do you keep pace with the mek?

I usually take da jamp and warpath, also da fist if vs hordes. I usually jump the boyz t1 vs gunline, vs hordes I wait T2, or da Jump Just within 18" in some odd corner in order to:
Distract the opponent fire
Bait the mainline in be disrupted
Shoot em and proc +1 for the dakkajet that will proc for the rest of the army with help of the gunz.
So far I beaten everything but those goddamn Ad mech and their broke dakkabots. Dude they need to go
90 points for a dreadnaught that kan shoot 18 shots with 6MW, reroll to hit and W and his turn get 4++???? GTFO!!!


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 flandarz wrote:
I still don't buy into the mindset that we're "not top table material" or "gatekeepers". The OP has 4 armies that placed in the top 3 for tournaments, and we had two armies make it into the top 20 (in an 800+ person tournament) a few months back or so. At the end of the day, I think we probably have one of the best, if not *the* best mono army in the game right now. Even with the Loota nerf. And while I agree we can't stack up to Imp Soup or Flyer Spam, if those are the only two army types that can keep us down, then I can't really complain.

Agree 100%. How allies works is completely broken, otherwise any other codex 1 vs 1 really struggle vs orks

The big mek with kff is in a battleforged evil sunz detachment so get has a minimum 8" t1 move when advancing. The increased 18" range plus a minium of 8" means that he's able to keep up and most things are covered, even any da jumped boyz. 5++ to overwatch is sorely needed especially against tau. Reading the rules grot shield can be used in the charge phase too.

Any thoughts on charging a tau gunline? The guy I played last night had both drones that add d3" onto my required range (removing the evil sunz +1" bonus at a minimum) and another battlesuit that adds 2" onto required charge range if they are declared. This severly reduced the effectiveness of boyz charging after da jumping and green tiding.

CaptainO wrote:
100%. There are so many different options. It all depends on how the armies are played. Orks are demonstrably able to win games, even placing in the top tables. No doubt chapter approved will rebalance some units but we still have options. Personally I'd say a good build is a 1/3 the work, correct deployment is another 1/3 and the rest is in game skill.

Of course deployment and game skill are same for all so you can't count on that being advantage. Unless you are literally the best player in the world. Not much room for those in the game though.


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Squiggoth back on sale by FW BTW.

tneva82 wrote:

CaptainO wrote:
100%. There are so many different options. It all depends on how the armies are played. Orks are demonstrably able to win games, even placing in the top tables. No doubt chapter approved will rebalance some units but we still have options. Personally I'd say a good build is a 1/3 the work, correct deployment is another 1/3 and the rest is in game skill.

Of course deployment and game skill are same for all so you can't count on that being advantage. Unless you are literally the best player in the world. Not much room for those in the game though.


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Squiggoth back on sale by FW BTW.

I definitely wouldn't say deployment and game skill are the same for all. IMO deployment is the most important phase and I've seen many people mess it up. Deploying too far forward, poor bubble wrapping, not correctly securing objectives, assuming they'll go first, the list goes on. If game skill (as in ability to play your army well depending on the situation you're in and countering the enemies actions effectively) was the same for all then there wouldn't be much point in the game.


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I will caveat my above statement with the fact that I effectively got tabled t3 by the undefeated tau gunline list last night so what do I know.


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Seriously how do orks deal with effetivley 90% of a tau gunline overwatchin on 5+ rerolling ones each tau dude shooting 3 time at s5. I'm going to have to buy some lootas I suppose.

CaptainO wrote:


I definitely wouldn't say deployment and game skill are the same for all. IMO deployment is the most important phase and I've seen many people mess it up. Deploying too far forward, poor bubble wrapping, not correctly securing objectives, assuming they'll go first, the list goes on. If game skill (as in ability to play your army well depending on the situation you're in and countering the enemies actions effectively) was the same for all then there wouldn't be much point in the game.

Yes but you can work on those skills same as all. Idea that you can compensate weaker codex by doing those better is fine but it ignores that opponent can do those just as well. Nothing in orks that make ork players superior in skills just because they are orks.

That's why I laugh every time sport team says they might be behind in skill but we'll win by work or to that effect. Why they think better skilled players don't do work? (actually in sport being better generally means they do more work...).

Work on deployment and in game skill sure but so do opponents so if you are playing with codex that's sub par you are already underdog. Imperium and eldar soups have plenty of just as good or better players unless you are the best player of the world. And those generally take the most powerful build anyway as they want to win.

CapitanO

The big mek with kff is in a battleforged evil sunz detachment so get has a minimum 8" t1 move when advancing. The increased 18" range plus a minium of 8" means that he's able to keep up and most things are covered, even any da jumped boyz. 5++ to overwatch is sorely needed especially against tau. Reading the rules grot shield can be used in the charge phase too.

Any thoughts on charging a tau gunline? The guy I played last night had both drones that add d3" onto my required range (removing the evil sunz +1" bonus at a minimum) and another battlesuit that adds 2" onto required charge range if they are declared. This severly reduced the effectiveness of boyz charging after da jumping and green tiding.

I like your thinking, you have good board control and a devastating second turn. All revolve around t1

Dunno about Tau, we have no Tau players in my group. I wonder thought, can't you just shoot down the marker light with the shoota before charging?

He takes something like 6 markerlights spread out between characters, pathfinders and I think drones. He takes 3 hammerheads (one of whom is a character) which absorb my shooting simply because two rounds of them shooting is devastating.

In my defence the guy who runs the list is the scottish champion and his won at least 2 tournaments with this list. Literally undefeated. Its one of the best synergized lists I've seen. Still who doesn't love a challenge.

 koooaei wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
1 CP infantry only, outside of 3-4 MANz, characters or 20 boyz it's completely useless, and even those applications aren't great.

IMO, the only reason to play blood axes is to have a grot battalion with CP regeneration trait on a SAG.

I think blood axe kommandoez can be pretty handy for scoring. 3+ armored deepstriking orks for just 8 ppm are neat.

The 18" range means that you won't be having cover against anything that would shoot you. The range on that trait is just much too high, at 12" it would have been great, 18" makes it useless.

Deff skullz kommandoz are much better because they get objective secured.


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CaptainO wrote:
Any thoughts on charging a tau gunline? The guy I played last night had both drones that add d3" onto my required range (removing the evil sunz +1" bonus at a minimum) and another battlesuit that adds 2" onto required charge range if they are declared. This severly reduced the effectiveness of boyz charging after da jumping and green tiding.

You could use the speed freaks specialist deatchment to drive some warbikes into his face T1. The more competitive advice would be to just gun down the things reducing your charge range and deep strike in your boyz when there is an opening, possibly holding them back till turn 3 to do so.

Well yeah, no idea about blood axes than.


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Maybe for snikrot or stompa

I've been having a lot of success against Tau with a Freebooterz gun-heavy list (SSAG+Mek Gunz+Dakka Jets, etc.) Tau actually have some pretty terrible guns, if you don't get within the half-range for Rapid Fire. I know it seems counter-intuitive to play Orkz and not charge, but it really worked. My Tau opponent is struggling to deal with long-range Orkz who don't blindly charge his gun-line.

That, I believe is the way to go.
I had about 20 matches with freebooterz and the more i play them, the more I see different way to play matches. Like I ll play vs DG+Nurgle tomorrow and I dont plan on jumping ork before T3

What are the thoughs on Squiggoths, worth it?

Basic squiggoths are trash, even in the casual scene. One of the local ork players has a couple and constantly uses them and they almost always die before they even move, theyr even easier than a wagon to kill i swear.

Gargsquig is pretty good but like all ork FW stuff kinda overpriced. If it goes against a Macro weapon or just sheer mass of D6 or better weapons, its toast. Basically if it goes against a list intended to deal with a knight its not going to last long.

Pretty new to 8th, what would you guys recommend using when facing Imperial Guard?

Last time I played IG I wasnt thinking right and brought a knife to a tank fight.

 flandarz wrote:
I've been having a lot of success against Tau with a Freebooterz gun-heavy list (SSAG+Mek Gunz+Dakka Jets, etc.) Tau actually have some pretty terrible guns, if you don't get within the half-range for Rapid Fire. I know it seems counter-intuitive to play Orkz and not charge, but it really worked. My Tau opponent is struggling to deal with long-range Orkz who don't blindly charge his gun-line.

I have a lot of Tau in my area,and play against them frequently and this is the answer. It is entirely possible for orks to outshoot Tau now. I gave up trying assaulting them a while ago, completely pointless. The only things that will survive the charge are vehicles which can give you an opening sometimes, unless they're in a building, then you're boned. Plus, with a scattering of fly for their drone screens and battlesuits you can struggle to tie them up.

Go big on shooting Freebooterz or Bad Moons and you'll see results.

 r_squared wrote:

 flandarz wrote:
I've been having a lot of success against Tau with a Freebooterz gun-heavy list (SSAG+Mek Gunz+Dakka Jets, etc.) Tau actually have some pretty terrible guns, if you don't get within the half-range for Rapid Fire. I know it seems counter-intuitive to play Orkz and not charge, but it really worked. My Tau opponent is struggling to deal with long-range Orkz who don't blindly charge his gun-line.

I have a lot of Tau in my area,and play against them frequently and this is the answer. It is entirely possible for orks to outshoot Tau now. I gave up trying assaulting them a while ago, completely pointless. The only things that will survive the charge are vehicles which can give you an opening sometimes, unless they're in a building, then you're boned. Plus, with a scattering of fly for their drone screens and battlesuits you can struggle to tie them up.

Go big on shooting Freebooterz or Bad Moons and you'll see results.

Pre-FAQ Nerf I was taking 25 Lootas in a loota bomb. Turn 1, my boyz all advance (60 on the table) the loota bomb then shoots the piss out of his firewarriors, split fire 3 squads. I got lucky and fired 3 shots, so 75 shots, I had about 45 hits and about 36+ wounds with that -1 to armor made his firewarriors disappear. He had a Onion of death of 50 firewarriors, by the end of the shooting phase it was down to 20, he also had 3 broadsides with shield drones, the SSAG took out 1 completely, I then used my jumped boyz to assault the closest broadside and got in with a 8' charge, then I closed the distance and was able to tie up his remaining squads of firewarriors, a unit of pathfinders and the other broadside. Turn 2 I reinforced with Tellyporting boyz and more jumped boyz and kept basically his entire army tied up in CC while my lootas/Big mek went to work on his remaining units which wasn't that much.

CC still works really really well, what doesn't work though is running head first into the guns of a tau gunline. In my example I had terrain which I could effectively use to shield my boyz from overwatch. If you try to out shoot a Tau gunline, you will lose if he is bringing good units. Freebooters die very very quickly to tau gunlines and they can out distance you easily. Good luck out shooting firewarriors, S5 BS4+ 7ppm infantry with a ranged 30 *Usually 36* gun that can easily be buffed to double tap at 18' or longer range and have 3 shots at that range. Or if you fight against broadsides they can just hose you down with missile fire and indirect weapons fire.

Oh yeah. You can still CC. I'm just saying that I've been having success with Freebooter gun lists against them. We have a fair number of units with 36+ range on their guns, and even more with 24". If you can stay outside of their Rapid-Fire range, you can definitely outshoot Tau. I've actually moved away from bringing Boy Mobs, so most of my units actually have the range to deal with Tau. Mek Gunz, SSAG and regular SAG, Dakka Jets, and a Gork are the core of my list. I actually don't have any "dedicated" CC units anymore, but it's generally fine because (other than Grots) even ranged focused Orkz are pretty solid in CC>

 flandarz wrote:
Oh yeah. You can still CC. I'm just saying that I've been having success with Freebooter gun lists against them. We have a fair number of units with 36+ range on their guns, and even more with 24". If you can stay outside of their Rapid-Fire range, you can definitely outshoot Tau. I've actually moved away from bringing Boy Mobs, so most of my units actually have the range to deal with Tau. Mek Gunz, SSAG and regular SAG, Dakka Jets, and a Gork are the core of my list. I actually don't have any "dedicated" CC units anymore, but it's generally fine because (other than Grots) even ranged focused Orkz are pretty solid in CC>

Exactly the same for me. It's perfectly feasible to outshoot tau and actually just ignore close combat altogether. I've done it several times myself.

 flandarz wrote:
Oh yeah. You can still CC. I'm just saying that I've been having success with Freebooter gun lists against them. We have a fair number of units with 36+ range on their guns, and even more with 24". If you can stay outside of their Rapid-Fire range, you can definitely outshoot Tau. I've actually moved away from bringing Boy Mobs, so most of my units actually have the range to deal with Tau. Mek Gunz, SSAG and regular SAG, Dakka Jets, and a Gork are the core of my list. I actually don't have any "dedicated" CC units anymore, but it's generally fine because (other than Grots) even ranged focused Orkz are pretty solid in CC>

Mhm, you basically have to take the "War of Dakka" mentality that Warboss Grog did, and allow them to take their assumptions of you charging at their line to your advantage and basically beat them at their own game before mopping up the survivors with whatever CC elements (if any) you have on hand. Traktor kannons are decent against them simply because so many of their units have the FLY keyword as well.

Except its for VEHICLE that has FLY. So that's basically...hammerheads. All the suits are out and those are the competive elements.

Yeah. And, honestly, I'll take the d3 shots and better AP over a single auto-hit and like +1 Damage (on average) any day. And considering you can get 3 Smashas for the price of 2 Traktorz, I just feel like they're a better investment. I still include 1 or 2 in my lists, but any more than that feels like a waste.

 flandarz wrote:
Yeah. And, honestly, I'll take the d3 shots and better AP over a single auto-hit and like +1 Damage (on average) any day. And considering you can get 3 Smashas for the price of 2 Traktorz, I just feel like they're a better investment. I still include 1 or 2 in my lists, but any more than that feels like a waste.

That is until you encounter one of those annoyinf Eldar flyer lists with -2 to hit flyerspam. That being said; I onl use smasha's myself and only resented the choice on a few occasions.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Basic squiggoths are trash, even in the casual scene. One of the local ork players has a couple and constantly uses them and they almost always die before they even move, theyr even easier than a wagon to kill i swear.

On paper it looks to be about equal to a regular Battlewagon. Which tend to survive quite long over here most of the time because of other, larger threats.

Cheers lads. Some quality tactical tips coming my way. I've bitten the bullet and started converting 15 lootas to up my dakka. Now all I have to do is develop some self control and hold back da jumping my 30/40 boyz squad unitl T3. The drones and battlesuits that add 1+" to your charge range are going to be a target priority. In future I'm going to be deploying the soon to be da jumped boyz right at the back.

In response to the guy asking about beating imperial guard, da jumping a mobbed up squad of 40 evil sunz declaring as many infantry units as possible and then fighting twice is the job. Try and tag the vehicles after you fight twice. Using the kff 18" strat and Running and advancing a big mek with kff forward will provide the boyz who will probably be overwatched (very hard to hide all 40 boyz behind LoS blocking terrain post da jump and pre charge). The 5++ more than halves the number of boyz who'll die to overwatch.

SSAG Mek will the killa boss trait will do some serious damage to any guard vehicles. Just make sure you take a grot oiler to absorb any sniper shots coming his way especially if you use grot shield to cover your lootas.

I’ve been out of the 40k scene for a few months, what changed with regards to lootas? I’ve seen some references to loota bomb nerf, but where can I find that FAQ?

Lootas themselves really didnt change since 7th edition.
They gained Kultures (everyone did not just orks gaining some kind of clan/sept/whatever rule) and some stratagems make them perform unusually well.
The FAQ was two-fold, their D3 shots is rolled when they are selected to shoot (so shoot twice strat means they roll twice now) and Mob Up is boyz-restricted now.

Loota Bomb was 15 + 10 Lootas that would immediately Mob Up to become a 25 Loota mob w/ shooting twice stratagem every time they rolled a 2 or 3 on the number of shots. With grot shields they were either piss easy to get rid of because you had the rate of fire needed, or impossible.

Anyone else run lootas in trukks? Without mob up it seems to me like the way to go. for +5pts each they gain 10 ablative t6 wounds, easy LootIt when the trukk dies, greater mobility when not shooting and a smaller deployment footprint.

Since I'm a die-hard blood axe, parking the trukk sideways on the table edge gives me cover from a big chunk of the board.

I actually prefer to put Flashgitz in my Trukkz. With a smaller range on their guns, they benefit more from the enhanced mobility, and having a 4+ BS instead of a 5+ means they can still hit things after moving. If you can proc the Freebooterz Kultur, you can actually *still* hit on 4s after moving. And they get more shots with better AP- (and basically inconsequentially less S). They're also Nobz, so better W and S, and their 4+ Save becomes a 3+ after Loot It. Too bad they're so expensive. I'd be a lot happier with them if they were about 5-10 points cheaper.


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As an aside, slightly disappointed that you can't use Gun Crazy Show-Offs while in a Trukk. Well, technically you *can* but, since the Gitz aren't on the board, no unit is the "closest" unit, so you can't target anything with it.

I often feel if you're buying a transport just for the durability it offers you may as well spend those points on more of the unit in question.

Failing that a bunker or bastion isn't that much more expensive but a lot tougher.

 JimOnMars wrote:
Anyone else run lootas in trukks? Without mob up it seems to me like the way to go. for +5pts each they gain 10 ablative t6 wounds, easy LootIt when the trukk dies, greater mobility when not shooting and a smaller deployment footprint.

Since I'm a die-hard blood axe, parking the trukk sideways on the table edge gives me cover from a big chunk of the board.

You also lose at least half your firepower and more if you move just by being on trukk...Only lootas worth putting on trukk are freebootas but those are inferior to bad moon ones anyway.

If i get it right, you can't trigger the freeboota trait with a transported unit. You can benefit from it if some other unit that's deployed normally triggered the rule.

Transports are pretty odd nowadays. Technically, if you follow raw, you can't even disembark unless the transport is destroyed.

Besides that, transports don't add much to speed, often don't add anything to durability but take away from damage per point from the transported units. There are some exceptions though. For example, if a transport is tough and shooty like a wave serpebt or cheap and good all around and can transport cheap good units like de. As for orks, it seems that the only units worth transporting with a trukk are tankbustas and grots. Bustas cause they are expensive, squishy, yet deal nice damage and need to be within 24. And grots cause they are a relatively cheap utility unit. Battlewagon, i'm not sure, maybe nobz and grots/kommandoez