No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]

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**Jidmah**

Fan67 wrote:
flandarz wrote:
Ghaz is also much harder to kill than a Klaw Boss. +1T, +2W, and a +2/4++ vs 4+. With +1 Attacks (+2 on a charge) and 3 Damage vs D3, he also hits a bit harder. That's said: he's a significant investment and he (obviously) works better with at least 1 Mob of Boys and a Banner Nob. I think if you're gonna run a Green Tide, he's a "must take". Otherwise? I'd leave him at home.

Ghaz isn’t that much harder to kill. Most of the time he is protected by his character keyword, and dies if he’s left in the open alone.
His most notable survivability bonus is that he doesn’t die to a single failed save from a knight’s chainsword.

Right after the notable survivability bonus of getting a save at all. If a knight hits your warboss just once, you simply remove it from the table.

He can’t take killa klaw,

He come stock with a killa klaw. Freeing up a relic is not a downside.

he is awkward to put into non-goff army.

Almost all successful armies are running a battalion 2 weird boyz + 3x 10 gretchin, their culture makes little to no difference. You can just put Ghaz there.

I don’t mean Ghaz is useless, he is cool, but compared to other faction leaders: guilliman, abaddon - he is lacking for his price.
No CP boost, very situational army-wide bonus (you need to charge first).

I agree. Abbadon is very similar to Ghaz in just being a big beatstick, but he buffs shooting units near him and protects them from Morale. A more relevant Aura would be really nice for Ghaz.

With S7 he could have been better against T8 vehicles (s7x2+2 from fist of gork) and 8 attacks on charge with 1-2 bonus attacks - could aim to kill a knight.

With first of Gork he becomes S16. Outside of that, without stratagems neither Abbadon nor Gulliman have any chance of taking down a knight, Mortarion just barely manages to do so on average and he is 470 points.

**Vineheart01**

addnid wrote:
I still get push back from my Group on the double choppa 5 attack nobz thing. I am running out of arguments... How to convince them ? Thanks !!!

For one, the FAQ of one codex does not affect the other. People have tried to do that several times in every edition, it never holds.
Nobz may replace their slugga and/OR choppa with items from the wargear list, with 0 mention about dupes from the first list as it has no clause of "only 1" like the second list does for kombi weapons.
Choppas are worded "When this model attacks it makes 1 extra attack with this profile" not "when it attacks with this weapon" thus it gains +2 attacks.

GW has had 2 opportunities to FAQ it to say otherwise, instead all they said was they cant take 2 from the first list AND one from the second.

**warhead01**

The chatter in this thread about Ghaz got me to look at him.
If I am correct this guy can put out 9 attacks with his kustom Klaw before exploding 6's hitting on a 2+ with the possibility of doing that 2 more time,(27 attacks before exploding 6's.) still excluding the exploding 6's. I'd hate to do this because it means he's slain at the end but what a glorious ending.
I recall the Goffs warlord trait was faq'd to be "better" but can't recall what was added.
At any rate to me it just looks like a matter of picking the right target and getting Ghaz in contact. With of course having the CP's to spend on stratagems and the Weird boys available to pump him up.
I'm not saying this is the best thing to do but it is a thing I might like to try at some point. Even though it shouldn't be relied on...
So what best to throw him at then is the question?
Heck he could very well wipe out 3 different units under the right conditions.
But could you imagine if it worked?

**Emicrania**

So, I just came back from my first "big" tournament , 36 players, 5 match in 2 days. My best placing ever to any tournament, 5th with 4 win and a loss for 2 points. 1750 ITC with fixed deployment and mission. Card optional as secondary. I took cards every time and maxed them twice.
Of 36 players 12 were chaos, 8 with 60 plaguebeares and sloppity. 6 Orks, 3 freeboterz. No admech, no GSC.
1st Chaos +TS
2nd Astra+IK
3rd Chaos
4th Bad moon, an old Adepticon winner (12 smashaguns

)
5th Me,myself & I

my List:
2x Dakkajet maxed out
1x Wazbomb KFF
2x weirbody
1x Warboss on Bike with relic Klaw
1x SSAG
1x Mek on bike KFF,Plasma
30x shoota boyz
2x10 grots
1x Gorkanaut
3x Smasha
3x Traktor
5x Stormboyz

All freeboterz

A little recap:

Spoiler:

Reflections:
I saw 2 other freeboterz list and I can see clearly what other more experienced players means, when they say that orks have go all or noithing. The warboos on bike with Klaw and that FoG are a waste in a dominantly shooting list. Same goes for the mek on bike and the stormboyz, with those points i could free up a second Battallion and use more dakka on SSAG at least a couple of more T. CP reroll is a wate 99% of the time. I dont get it. IS INSANE. Roll 1 to Dmg, ok, CP re roll. 1 again

I love the list, it suits my aggressive play and a the same times it forces me to think more.
we played a couple of match with the chess clock. Damn if it helps. You focus on more important stuff and play more streamlined.
I will play this list or a variant of this for the rest of the 2019 at least. I already booked other 2 "major" tournaments.
Las thought, just because orks are not nr 1 all the time, doesnt mean anything. All the major tournament there is always some orks in Top 3 or 5 or 10. It is possible and doable to play good and have a lot of fun with an incredible, unique, funny army that by GW standard, is nothing more than cannon fodder for the Marines.
We are scary
We are green
We are orks

And orks, are NEVER beaten.

EDIT: A textwall into a spoiler

**Vineheart01**

Goff warlord trait was "buffed" to add +1 AP when charging.
So his klaw is AP-4 on the charge. Whoopie, It is technically significant since it 100% removes 3+ saves and reduces 2+ to a tshirt, but just about everything he's gonna face either doesnt have a save in the first place, common marine (which dies to his boyz just fine), or has an invul anyway.

Sidetrack question: Ambulls
Fluffwise it kinda makes 0 sense to have an Ambull as orks wouldnt be smart enough to "release" one but it could potentially offer some hilarious "counts as" models, my mind immediately goes to some heavily mek'd up Stormboss (he jumps, not digs around) with a grot rigger on his shoulder to be the healing rule.

But, 70pts and a cp since you HAVE to use an aux detachment to bring it. Think it might have some uses? T6 7W with 4 S6 AP-3 D3 damaging attacks hitting on 3s with a 3+ save.

**flandarz**

What they shoulda did was just swap the Goff Trait with the Propa Killy Trait. That one fits Goffs better anyway.

**SemperMortis**

warhead01 wrote:
The chatter in this thread about Ghaz got me to look at him.
If I am correct this guy can put out 9 attacks with his kustom Klaw before exploding 6's hitting on a 2+ with the possibility of doing that 2 more time,(27 attacks before exploding 6's.) still excluding the exploding 6's. I'd hate to do this because it means he's slain at the end but what a glorious ending.
I recall the Goffs warlord trait was faq'd to be "better" but can't recall what was added.
At any rate to me it just looks like a matter of picking the right target and getting Ghaz in contact. With of course having the CP's to spend on stratagems and the Weird boys available to pump him up.
I'm not saying this is the best thing to do but it is a thing I might like to try at some point. Even though it shouldn't be relied on...
So what best to throw him at then is the question?
Heck he could very well wipe out 3 different units under the right conditions.
But could you imagine if it worked?

Can't do it twice more,only once. They changed the wording of the fight again strat.

**flandarz**

Well, you can do it a third time if you're slain during your opponent's Fight Back portion, I believe. Pretty sure Orkz iz Neva Beaten stacks with the others.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Course, you just spent 5 CP and lost Ghaz for 27 S16 AP-4 D3 attacks which hit on 2s and explode on 6s. That's 26.75 hits which wound T8 on 2s for 22.29 Wounds. Depending on the Invuln Save (3++ or 4++), you'll see 7.43 or 11.15 pass Saves, for an average of 22 or 33 damage. That's pretty hefty.

**Trimarius**

flandarz wrote:
Well, you can do it a third time if you're slain during your opponent's Fight Back portion, I believe. Pretty sure Orkz iz Neva Beaten stacks with the others.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Course, you just spent 5 CP and lost Ghaz for 27 S16 AP-4 D3 attacks which hit on 2s and explode on 6s. That's 26.75 hits which wound T8 on 2s for 22.29 Wounds. Depending on the Invuln Save (3++ or 4++), you'll see 7.43 or 11.15 pass Saves, for an average of 22 or 33 damage. That's pretty hefty.

He means that "Get Stuck In, Ladz!" was changed to be only at the end of the fight phase (like all the other fight twice strats), not whenever you could choose a unit to fight or at the end (what it was originally). So the only way to fight three times would be to swing, survive the rest of the fight phase, use Get Stuck In to fight again at the same time as your opponent uses their fight twice strat (and have yours resolve first, presumably by having it be your turn so you get to choose timing on end of phase stuff), then die to their second round of fighting and use Orks Is Never Beaten to swing for the last time.

Not something that's going to come up regularly.

**flandarz**

That's fair.

**tneva82**

Fan67 wrote:
Problem with Ghaz is that his main bonus (bonus attack) is kinda pointless.
235-80 = 155 points over regular klaw-boss equals to 22 boyz which yield up to 67 attacks without spells. So you need to hit at least 2 full units of boyz with Ghaz aura to get equal damage, but 22 boyz also give more board control, more wounds...

Those 22 extra boyz are unlikely to fit into combat though.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

addnid wrote:
It’s more to do with the argument that two choppas don’t give more than one attack.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
But I think the last faq is pretty clear on chainswords so...

Umm the wording can't be more clear. It's extra attack with the choppa when you fight. For them to claim they don't give extra attacks they are claiming nob cannot make ANY attacks as he's not fighting...

And if that's weird for them howabout combo of big choppa and choppa for 3 S7 -1 D2 and 1 S5 -0 1 attacks

**koooaei**

From the last 3 tourneys: i'm starting to think about taking a big shiny shoota instead of a killa klaw. Yeah, killa klaw is a nice ward against knights and other larger targets with no invul in mellee but i'm starting to think that i'm getting stuck in mellee less and less often. Especially with characters.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
At least in smaller games, blunderbuss bikerboss proved to be so much more useful than a killa klaw one

**CaptainO**

Emicrania wrote:
So, I just came back from my first "big" tournament , 36 players, 5 match in 2 days. My best placing ever to any tournament, 5th with 4 win and a loss for 2 points. 1750 ITC with fixed deployment and mission. Card optional as secondary. I took cards every time and maxed them twice.
Of 36 players 12 were chaos, 8 with 60 plaguebeares and sloppity. 6 Orks, 3 freeboterz. No admech, no GSC.
1st Chaos +TS
2nd Astra+IK
3rd Chaos
4th Bad moon, an old Adepticon winner (12 smashaguns )
5th Me,myself & I

my List:
2x Dakkajet maxed out
1x Wazbomb KFF
2x weirbody
1x Warboss on Bike with relic Klaw
1x SSAG
1x Mek on bike KFF,Plasma
30x shoota boyz
2x10 grots
1x Gorkanaut
3x Smasha
3x Traktor
5x Stormboyz

All freeboterz

A little recap:

Spoiler:

1st match
VS Daemons and Chaos. 2 Lord discordant, 3 Dakka (Soulgrinder?), Keeper of secrets, 20 brimstone, a lot of other character .
First tournament for this guy, really nice fellow, a bit inexperienced. I get first turn, blow a Discordant, brimstone and a soulgrinder. charge into the other discordant.
He than proceed to smite to shred the wazbomb (bad move from my side), wound another DJ a bit and kill some orks CC
I blow up another soulgrinder and wound his Discordant to 1W, no CP left. I forget about points and waste a turn
He basically kill himself. He does 6 MW on his KoF with 2 Perils maxed out and kill some more orks. He s got some good cards and hold the backline, smite down a plane.
This turn i charge a wounded G-naut in the middle of the Character that are left, kill some and stay in combat. Im leading
His last turn where his goddamn Discordant (that got healed now 11 W thanks to regen and spells) is free having killed the last orks and charge in the G naut. Epic fight, G-naut goes down, explode and kill 4 caracther that were left with 1-2 W!!
last turn i mop points but miss completely surviving brimstone. only things he had left.
I than realized that we were playing a tournament,not a single match. . . I totally forgot about holding obj and securing cards. I believe i lost my 3rd place in this match.
Won 22-19

2nd Match.
vs DG. hangover annoying guy that I helped thru the first couple of turns because he had no idea where he was.
60 plaguebeares, sloppity, tree, 2 DP , 16 bloodletters, 3x3 nurglins. 3 PBC.
He starts, the grindfest starts, i roll poorly thru the game, he rolls like hes the Grandfather himself. just a slugfest. He charged my flank T2 with the BL and killed my SSAG. no idea how he made it. he was too hangover to discuss, i let him do it, was a call the judge situation, but I knew the situation looked bad already for me, i let it slide and took some revenge later on on points.
I make a terrible mistake where I advance too much and he charge and double attack with his DP of chaos and chop down 2 planes. From that point onward, it was uphill.
As suspected. nothing really left on the board beside 2 nurglins and a sloppity with 1W. I had G-naut, 5 gunz all grots and weirboys.
Irritating to say the least.
Lost 21-23

3rd Match.
Vs Chaos deamons. AGAIN. At this point I´m having wartime flashbacks, hallucination and disorientation. I basically spent a day fighting Chaos...
60 PB, 30 PH, 14BL, Ahriman, all the damn council of spam and again, 2 DP, 2x3 Nurglins, sloppity. 1 FW Dread with C Beam
1st he starts, advance. smite a bit my G-naut. nothing much kill some Grots in order to DS backline but I autopass for 2CP
1st T i do the SAME MISTAKE AGAIN WITH THE PLANES"!!!!!!!! . All to proc a +1that doesnt go thru because he saves 2!!!! brimstone. I start to bite my hands and swallow dices. I kill some PB and play defensive. My SAAG is worthless basically.
2T he flame the crap out of me, wipe the orks, eat up 2 planes and keep his ground. My G-naut is down to 4 W.
2T i had to count to 30.than to 50, than to 100 in order to not give up. I decide to play the match anyway and do my best.
I realize his WL prince is deployed too far up and i decide to punish his right flank. My shooting is bananas, finally. between moral, an angry G-naut on second bracket shooting twice a warboss and an OK SSAG I take 30 Horrors, a unit of PB, his DP warlord (Ork is NEVER beaten baby!) and almost sniper ahriman.
T3 he comes down with the BL in a really bad position, for him, not for me. He manages to kill the grots but he has not CP to attack again, so he consolidate towards my Gunz. I belive he lost the game here.
T3 i take backline with the stormboyz and charge the nurglins. kill half of the BL, but 2 comes back -.-. The other unit of PB is left with 7.
T4. Here he have really bad luck and leave my DJ with 5W, fail to kill my G-naut in CC with the BL and get wiped.
T4. It is Doomsday. We are playing for points. I kill Ahriman and get some points.
T5-T6. I have all gunz left, 2 weirdboy a Dj that is bringing death from above and a surving G-naut. He have sloppity and a Poxbringer with 1 W...
Is a draw. 22-22
I´m happy, he´s tired.
Something feels fishy.
He counts again, 22-22
Again. I cant belive it. Can I please see the scoring Sheet?
There, I won 23-21. No wait 23-22......
He keeps the scoring gak, whatever. I won.

Match 4
New day, New chaos. This time vs Chaos Knight, armiger(? 4d3 dakkabot) 30 PB, poxbringer, 1DP, 15+15 BL, 3 flamers, 3x3 nurglins.1 Tzeench herald,
My T1. 1 Dakkabot is gone, the Knight is left with 12W, flamers are gone,6PB are gone. I advance a bit and fail charge with the boyz.
He s scared of my G-naut. Good. Leave the planes to be . He Wounds the G.naut charge my orks advance with the DP and charge with the Knight into 1 of my traktor.
T2. bye bye prince vs my Warboss., Knight is gone, other small knight is gone poxbringer left with 1W, same as the other herald. my boyz are in combat. he s left with 11 PB.
BL comes down and takes down Warboss, 2 gunz and a weirbody with 1 W. 11 orks are left.
T3 i remember is a torunament, run out of combat in order to get an obj worth 3 points, wipe an unit of Bl, charge some goddam resilient nurglings backfield. get out of combat with anything else.
He charges and kill the g naut. contest midfield.
T4 tabled if not for 1 goddam nurglins that tanks like 30 stormboyz attacks, some grenade and 2MW smite!
38-12

Match 5
VS a guy I know that played only CC nids for the last 2 years. Great guy, very aggressvive playing. No BS, no cheating, just a good Player.
2 mixed dakkarant+Claw, Swarmy, 4 Zoanthrope, 3 Venomthrope, 1 Zoanthrope, Broodlord, 30 Mingants, 20+18 Genes.
Quarters deployment. He choses side. Deploy aggressive. I deploy defensive. I know this list. I played it and lost with it a million times before i started Orks.
I get 1st turn. Is a massacre. 10 +13 genestealers, a Dakkarant, 3 venomthropes. I fail Da Jump, but get Warpath. He will negate EVERYOTHERSPELL for the rest of the game....
he smites to 1W my wazbomb, charges my fronline of grots, dakkarant wipe the wazbomb, charge into grots. He spend 9 Cp in order to save the appearences. But is already too late. kill some orks but nothing much.
T2 warlord Dakkarant is Kapow! ,minigants are 5 left. all the genestealers are gone, I take some cards. Is done man.
he doesnt give up, take all the bonuses he can, objectivs a card. But the fish is fried.
T3 i offer my warboss in order to get some W on Swarmy, shoot down broodlord and 3 zoanthropes and start to max on secondaries.
T3 he kills the mek and get a card.
T4 tabled.
shaking hands.
33-16

Reflections:
I saw 2 other freeboterz list and I can see clearly what other more experienced players means, when they say that orks have go all or noithing. The warboos on bike with Klaw and that FoG are a waste in a dominantly shooting list. Same goes for the mek on bike and the stormboyz, with those points i could free up a second Battallion and use more dakka on SSAG at least a couple of more T. CP reroll is a wate 99% of the time. I dont get it. IS INSANE. Roll 1 to Dmg, ok, CP re roll. 1 again
I love the list, it suits my aggressive play and a the same times it forces me to think more.
we played a couple of match with the chess clock. Damn if it helps. You focus on more important stuff and play more streamlined.
I will play this list or a variant of this for the rest of the 2019 at least. I already booked other 2 "major" tournaments.
Las thought, just because orks are not nr 1 all the time, doesnt mean anything. All the major tournament there is always some orks in Top 3 or 5 or 10. It is possible and doable to play good and have a lot of fun with an incredible, unique, funny army that by GW standard, is nothing more than cannon fodder for the Marines.
We are scary
We are green
We are orks

And orks, are NEVER beaten.

EDIT: A textwall into a spoiler

Cheers for the report dude. Useful stuff.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

koooaei wrote:
From the last 3 tourneys: i'm starting to think about taking a big shiny shoota instead of a killa klaw. Yeah, killa klaw is a nice ward against knights and other larger targets with no invul in mellee but i'm starting to think that i'm getting stuck in mellee less and less often. Especially with characters.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
At least in smaller games, blunderbuss bikerboss proved to be so much more useful than a killa klaw one

Ork characters rarely have invul saves so if your opponent commits attacking them there is a good chance they'll die. Its fairly unorky but I've found best success with holding back the killa klaw until theres an opening against a vehicle or enemy character and then throwing him in. Its the boyz job to clear the chaff.

I had a discussion with another guy on here about the merits of the blunderbuss. Depending on who I'm playing I'll give the killa klaw to my biker boss (against mek/knight lists or the blunderbus to my waaagh banner nob who I'll be trying to keep out of combat anyway(against horde or Tau gunline where getting my boss into combat is tough.) A biker boss with normal Klaw can still do damage its just less reliable and the waagh banner without blunderbus still fufills a roll of buffing nearby units. If you weren't Bad moons you could give the waaagh banner nob the big shiny shoota but if its shooting you're after you'll probably be taking the SSAG so the shiny shoota is costing you at least 1 CP. Dunno if its worth it.

**koooaei**

CaptainO wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

koooaei wrote:
From the last 3 tourneys: i'm starting to think about taking a big shiny shoota instead of a killa klaw. Yeah, killa klaw is a nice ward against knights and other larger targets with no invul in mellee but i'm starting to think that i'm getting stuck in mellee less and less often. Especially with characters.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
At least in smaller games, blunderbuss bikerboss proved to be so much more useful than a killa klaw one

Ork characters rarely have invul saves so if your opponent commits attacking them there is a good chance they'll die. Its fairly unorky but I've found best success with holding back the killa klaw until theres an opening against a vehicle or enemy character and then throwing him in. Its the boyz job to clear the chaff.

I had a discussion with another guy on here about the merits of the blunderbuss. Depending on who I'm playing I'll give the killa klaw to my biker boss (against mek/knight lists or the blunderbus to my waaagh banner nob who I'll be trying to keep out of combat anyway(against horde or Tau gunline where getting my boss into combat is tough.) A biker boss with normal Klaw can still do damage its just less reliable and the waagh banner without blunderbus still fufills a roll of buffing nearby units. If you weren't Bad moons you could give the waaagh banner nob the big shiny shoota but if its shooting you're after you'll probably be taking the SSAG so the shiny shoota is costing you at least 1 CP. Dunno if its worth it.

Ssag is out of question. Best relic we currently have. It's in fact so good paired with a shoot again strategem from dreadmob,, it singlehandedly changed our playstyle. I'm talking about the second relic. On paper, killa klaw is beastly and indeed it can be game-changing vs some armies like monster mash nids or knights. But it happens more and more often that a klaw boss is not seeing mellee where he'd need that klaw. Most of the time he's either stomping his own boyz and grots or chopping chaff/light tanks that are allready half-dead after ssag and rokkits.
Thus the thought about what other relik to pick if you ain't a bad moon with blunderbuss.

**warhead01**

Trimarius wrote:
flandarz wrote:
Well, you can do it a third time if you're slain during your opponent's Fight Back portion, I believe. Pretty sure Orkz iz Neva Beaten stacks with the others.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Course, you just spent 5 CP and lost Ghaz for 27 S16 AP-4 D3 attacks which hit on 2s and explode on 6s. That's 26.75 hits which wound T8 on 2s for 22.29 Wounds. Depending on the Invuln Save (3++ or 4++), you'll see 7.43 or 11.15 pass Saves, for an average of 22 or 33 damage. That's pretty hefty.

He means that "Get Stuck In, Ladz!" was changed to be only at the end of the fight phase (like all the other fight twice strats), not whenever you could choose a unit to fight or at the end (what it was originally). So the only way to fight three times would be to swing, survive the rest of the fight phase, use Get Stuck In to fight again at the same time as your opponent uses their fight twice strat (and have yours resolve first, presumably by having it be your turn so you get to choose timing on end of phase stuff), then die to their second round of fighting and use Orks Is Never Beaten to swing for the last time.

Not something that's going to come up regularly.

I hadn't kept up with the faq's because I haven't played more than 1 game after 6 months away from the hobby.
I downloaded them this morning.
The "Ghaz idea" is kinda ok and I agree it won't come up that often. I also think I tend to use my characters differently than most other players here. Over the years my Power Klaw warboss, and I look at Ghaz as basically the same thing, was used to crack open really tough targets and once upon a time that was a Land Raider or a SH tank. So another unit could finish the job if the boss didn't one shot it.) Those where my preferred targets as I equated the Ork power Klaw to the SM Lascannon. I just have to get it into contact and swing. I hadn't taken INV saves into account because I don't have a running catalog of just who has them and my tendency for targeting vehicles. Still Ghaz fighting twice, more or less safely is good enough and it may be that he fights twice on my turn then 3 times on the opposing players turn. (If that's happening then ...What's really going on in that game!!!

)
I haven't a clue just what other players thing their Bosses are suppose to do I have always found a Boss really has no business doing much of anything on it's own, that seems to get them perished.
As far as the CP's go, I guess it sounds like a lot to use on just one model but at this point I don't really plan my list around where I will spend my CP's so much as trying to bring as many as I can.
I had put my Orks as side after my last tournament and the let down that was "Orktober." I am hoping to get excited about pushing Orks across the table again.

**russellmoo**

The concern I have for running Ghazkhull is how to get him into the enemy lines. He is stuck with the Goff kultur and to get the most out of him you don't want him hanging out in a vehicle.

So the question becomes how do you get him to where he needs to go.

If he walks he probably won't see combat until turn three.

In a battlewagon you can get him there sooner but the second you put him in a battlewagon the wagon is going to be the first thing your opponent targets and wagons are often hard to hide.

If you use a tellyporta he might not make the charge.

Thoughts?

**Jidmah**

You can draw fire from a battlewagon transporting Ghaz by bringing nauts, bonebreakers with nobz/MANz, buggies and/or planes along. The downside is that pretty much everything in that list is overcosted by ~10-20% so it's not really something you would want to bring to a tournament.

**CaptainO**

russellmoo wrote:
The concern I have for running Ghazkhull is how to get him into the enemy lines. He is stuck with the Goff kultur and to get the most out of him you don't want him hanging out in a vehicle.

So the question becomes how do you get him to where he needs to go.

If he walks he probably won't see combat until turn three.

In a battlewagon you can get him there sooner but the second you put him in a battlewagon the wagon is going to be the first thing your opponent targets and wagons are often hard to hide.

If you use a tellyporta he might not make the charge.

Thoughts?

Have you considered a Trukk with 10 grots. Smaller and easier to hide.

Or Teleport the Battlewagon and boost it in.Still only T3.

I don't think he's competitive but if you find something that works then keep us informed

**koooaei**

The answer is simple - don't take ghaz.
But if you still want to, just footslog him and hope for good advance rolls.

**flandarz**

If you're not running a Greentide, then Ghaz isn't gonna fit well in your list (unless you wanna suicide run him after a Da Jump, like the Killa Klaw Boss). If you are, then you're gonna be foot slogging with the Boyz anyway. But you DO have some options.

1) Tellyport in a group of Boyz on T2, then Da Jump Ghaz up to join them.

2) Ghaz allows himself and the Boyz around him to Advance and Charge, so Advance up the board for ~8-9" movement per turn. Should be in a position to charge by T2, as long as your opponent isn't hiding in the back of his deployment zone.

3) Put him in a Transport and drive him up to a Da Jump point. Still won't see action until T2 (unless your opponent pops the Transport before then).

4) EGT back a group of damaged Boyz, then Da Jump Ghaz to the front lines. Again, this will be on T2.

Not saying Greentide is competitive right now. But it can work, if you (and your opponent) got the patience for it.

**G00fySmiley**

odd tactics questionish thing... but I am doing a narrative event the third war for armageddon.

working on building the list and models. looking to make it as easy to use/ as little models as possible. I am in charge of 15-20k in points depending on attendees. (basically i am the orks) no rule of 3 applying or limits on what I can field at all

models to work with

6 stompas magnetized for varios gear
6 garg squigoths
12 squiggoths
6 meka-dreads
9 battlewagons
9 trukks
27 big guns
3-400 boyz
90 meganobz
75 lootas
25 burnas
3x each of the new buggies
9 big meks w/ sag
5 big mneks w/ kff
10 magnetized planes that cna be run however.
9 killa kans
6 wierd boyz
3 warbosses on bikes
100ish nobz with various equipment
every named character
70 gretchin
60 ork bikers
30 nob bikers
5 nobz w/ waaagh banner
3 painboyz
3 painboyz on bike
30 konadoes
6 meks
7 runherds
9 deffcoptas
27 grot tanks
30 stormboyz
6 gorkanaughts/morkanaughts (magnetized for either)
15 flash gitz
7 deffdreads

I can really fill it out however i need. I am not against geting more models to make it work/make it easier to pilot such a big army in a full day event. (literally throw price out the window on suggestions, if i need 6 more stompas I will get them )

currently leaning towards using the stompas filling them with meganobz and a kff ig mek each for the inv. use my jets, and fill gargantual squigoths with lootas. field all the grot tanks and mek guns with SAG meks, fill battlewagons with nobs and leave most the footslogging things/boys behind to avoid moving them, even on trays its difficult because of the amoutn of terrain usually used.

**russellmoo**

I would add in the gorkanauts and some morkanauts, and put some megaknobz or nobz inside each one.

You are probably also going to be okay running the kommandos and stormboyz as you can pop them into the board later in the game without worrying about them getting blasted to peices before they get to do anything.

**some bloke**

For getting Ghazzie into combat on turn 2, I might suggest combining a deffkilla wartrike with a solid transport (battlewagon, or bigtrakk for 14" move), so move 14", advance 3-4", then charge (thanks to the trike) for a turn 1 movement of 14+3D6", average 24.5". With the rerolls to charge and spending a CP to reroll a 1 on advancing, you can probably count on 26" of movement, so models 27" away are in the threat zone. or use the 3D6" charge strat to really fly across the board. the wagon should be ready to squit ghaz out on turn 2, or the opponents turn 1 if they crack the trakk, to go stomp stuff in their deployment zone in your turn 2. Park it near a KFF on turn 1 if you're not confident about getting the first turn.

Would this work?

**flandarz**

That should work. Yeah.

I have an upcoming game against Dark Angels, and as I've never encountered them before, I was wondering if anyone here had some general advice for me? I know I need to watch out for the Smash Captain, but any "must have" units I should be aware of?

My list is two Freebooterz Battalions, with 1 SSAG, 2 Index Mekz with KFFs, 1 Weirdboy with Da Jump, Kaptin Badrukk, 6x10 Grots, 9 Flashgitz, 6 Mek Gunz (all Smashaz), 2 Dakkajets, a Gork and a MekaDread, and a Trukk (I think).

Automatically Appended Next Post:
To clarify, I don't want to tailor my list to counter his list. I just wanna make sure I'm "competitive" so I don't get slaughtered.

**mhalko1**

flandarz wrote:
That should work. Yeah.

I have an upcoming game against Dark Angels, and as I've never encountered them before, I was wondering if anyone here had some general advice for me? I know I need to watch out for the Smash Captain, but any "must have" units I should be aware of?

My list is two Freebooterz Battalions, with 1 SSAG, 2 Index Mekz with KFFs, 1 Weirdboy with Da Jump, Kaptin Badrukk, 6x10 Grots, 9 Flashgitz, 6 Mek Gunz (all Smashaz), 2 Dakkajets, a Gork and a MekaDread, and a Trukk (I think).

Automatically Appended Next Post:
To clarify, I don't want to tailor my list to counter his list. I just wanna make sure I'm "competitive" so I don't get slaughtered.

is it a 2k game?

**flandarz**

Yeah. 2k. All I really know is that he's running Dark Angels and he wants to try out a couple of units.

**ManTube**

Thoughts on this list? I love both flash gitz and big robots so seeing as freebootas with gorkamorkanauts is seeing some love right now I was thinking of trying something like this out for a semi-competive list.

Spoiler:

Basically the flash gitz ride in the nauts, one squad with Badrukk who ride in a gork so the enemy has to choose between focusing on the Mork to take out invul or going after the one with the Kaptin. Grots hang back around the SSAG, shoota mob gets da jumped up by the weirdboy to clear chaff. Nauts move up and shoot and second turn the gitz hop out in the midfield where they should be in range of most things with their guns. Because they are actually on the table, they can actually make solid use of Badrukk's reroll 1s aura unlike when they ride around in trukks or Battlewagons.

I'm unsure about keeping the deffkilla wartrike. He gives the nauts the ability to advance and charge and potentially with a good advance roll and the ramming speed stratagem one of the gorks can pull off a first turn charge, but I'm unsure how often I would want the nauts to advance and charge seeing as I want their shooting too. But I also want the 4th HQ for the extra detachment and CP so I'm not sure what to replace him with that would synergize well. Klaw boss on bike maybe? I also thought about just having a bike Mek with KFF who could repair the nauts as well as give them the flexibility and redundancy to keep that 5++ invul should a gork want to split off away from the Mork. It could also hang out and cover the flash gitz once they are out and keep them durable.

Obviously this list will likely struggle against more competitive lists that are built to one-shot a castellan, but I feel that it is pretty durable with a lot of threats and good shooting and close combat. What do y'all think?

**Jidmah**

flandarz wrote:
Yeah. 2k. All I really know is that he's running Dark Angels and he wants to try out a couple of units.

The most important part when facing DA is having a way to quickly handle helblasters. With native re-rolling ones, near immunity to morale and +1 damage stratagem they are the most powerful asset of any Dark Angel army. Lootas work best as they can ignore a potential -1 to hit from a darkshroud with more dakka and outrange helblasters. AP-1 is not that much of an issue since DA helblaster tend to be protected by Azrael's 4++. Buggies(KBB, SJD, scrap jet) and flash gits also work well, but if they get too close they might just get wiped out.

In general, don't expect any vehicles to survive within 15" of a unit of helblasters (they one-shot a naut on average). Also, don't try to charge them with a klaw boss or deff dread, there is decent chance of them just killing them in overwatch.

**flandarz**

The biggest issue with your list, that I see, is that 10 CP is probably too little. Codex Orkz are very CP hungry. Even Freebootaz. You're also pretty vulnerable to AT, as once your opponent pops your Nauts, you've lost half your points. Like you said, most lists have a way to deal with Super Heavies in a Turn or 2, and with 3 Heavies, I think you'll find they may not last past Turn 3, unless you throw them in a Tellyporta. With only 10 CP, though, you won't have enough to run your Kustom Ammo on the SSAG if you do.

Thanks Jidmah. I'll watch out for that and try to stay in the 24" range as long as possible. Fortunately, most of my list operates just fine at long range.

**Emicrania**

flandarz wrote:
That should work. Yeah.

I have an upcoming game against Dark Angels, and as I've never encountered them before, I was wondering if anyone here had some general advice for me? I know I need to watch out for the Smash Captain, but any "must have" units I should be aware of?

My list is two Freebooterz Battalions, with 1 SSAG, 2 Index Mekz with KFFs, 1 Weirdboy with Da Jump, Kaptin Badrukk, 6x10 Grots, 9 Flashgitz, 6 Mek Gunz (all Smashaz), 2 Dakkajets, a Gork and a MekaDread, and a Trukk (I think).

Automatically Appended Next Post:
To clarify, I don't want to tailor my list to counter his list. I just wanna make sure I'm "competitive" so I don't get slaughtered.

I play a list very similar, Ben jureks list TBH,Is a great list, extremely flexible and can punch hard. Just remove asap anything that can hurt your planes. They and the gunz has always been my MVPs