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 flandarz wrote:
Those are all fair points. I guess I'm on board with that logic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On another note, I think that GW left some cheese in the Codex. Obviously, I don't think this is intended, but I wanted to put it out there and see what you guys thought.

Great Waaagh!: Friendly ORK INFANTRY units within
6" of Ghazghkull Thraka at the start of the Charge
phase can charge even if they Advanced this turn. In
addition, add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of models
in friendly ORK INFANTRY units if they made a charge
move this turn and Ghazghkull Thraka is within 6" of
that unit when they are chosen to fight.

Waaagh!: Friendly <CLAN> INFANTRY units within
6" of this model at the start of the Charge phase can
charge even if they Advanced this turn.

Speedwaaagh!: Friendly <CLAN> BIKER and VEHICLE
units within 6" of this model at the start of the Charge
phase can charge even if they Advanced this turn.

Am I wrong in thinking these, by RAW, are usable on your opponent's turn as well? Am I missing something important? Cuz, otherwise, that can get pretty gross. Because they say "at the start of the charge phase", I feel like they would occur before your opponent's charges as well.

Technically, you check during each charge phase whether a unit is within 6" and then they get the ability to charge even if they advanced. However, they never had the ability to charge during that turn anyways, so it doesn't really matter whether you advanced or not (however you managed to do that in the first place).

The only one allowed to charge during your opponent's turn is Mad Dok Grotznik, because he seriously is one scalpel short of a medpack

 Jidmah wrote:

CaptainO wrote:
My current 2000 point ITC list

Spoiler:

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [36 PL, 664pts, -3CP] ++

+ No Force Org Slot [-3CP] +

Clan Kultur: Evil Sunz

Extra Gubbins (1/3 CP) [-3CP]: 2 Extra Shiny Gubbins [-3CP]

+ HQ [10 PL, 174pts] +

Big Mek (Index) [5 PL, 75pts]: Choppa, Kustom Force Field [20pts]

Warboss on Warbike (index) [5 PL, 99pts]: Attack Squig, Da Killa Klaw, Power Klaw [13pts], Shoota (Index)

+ Troops [26 PL, 490pts] +

Boyz [11 PL, 210pts]
. Boss Nob [7pts]: Choppa, Choppa
. 29x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa [203pts]

Boyz [4 PL, 70pts]
. Boss Nob [7pts]: Choppa, Choppa
. 9x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa [63pts]

Boyz [11 PL, 210pts]
. Boss Nob [7pts]: Choppa, Choppa
. 29x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa [203pts]

++ Brigade Detachment +12CP (Orks) [63 PL, 1,336pts, -2CP] ++

+ No Force Org Slot [-1CP] +

Clan Kultur: Freebooterz

Specialist Detachment [-1CP]: Dread Waaaagh! [-1CP]

+ HQ [12 PL, 234pts, -1CP] +

Big Mek W/ Shokk Attack Gun [4 PL, 84pts]: Da Souped-up Shokka, Follow me Ladz!, Grot Oiler [4pts], Shokk Attack Gun [25pts], Warlord

Kaptin Badrukk [5 PL, 88pts]: Ammo Runt [4pts]

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts, -1CP]: 2. Warpath, 3. Da Jump, The Badskull Banner, Warphead [-1CP]

+ Troops [6 PL, 180pts] +

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin [30pts]

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin [30pts]

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin [30pts]

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin [30pts]

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin [30pts]

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin [30pts]

+ Elites [6 PL, 120pts] +

Kommandos [2 PL, 40pts]
. Boss Nob [8pts]: Choppa
. 2x Kommando [16pts]
. Kommando W/ 'Eavy Weapon (Index) [8pts]: Burna
. Kommando W/ 'Eavy Weapon (Index) [8pts]: Burna

Kommandos [2 PL, 40pts]
. Boss Nob [8pts]: Choppa
. 2x Kommando [16pts]
. Kommando W/ 'Eavy Weapon (Index) [8pts]: Burna
. Kommando W/ 'Eavy Weapon (Index) [8pts]: Burna

Kommandos [2 PL, 40pts]
. Boss Nob [8pts]: Choppa
. 2x Kommando [16pts]
. Kommando W/ 'Eavy Weapon (Index) [8pts]: Burna
. Kommando W/ 'Eavy Weapon (Index) [8pts]: Burna

+ Fast Attack [6 PL, 119pts] +

Deff Kopta [2 PL, 39pts]
. DeffKopta [39pts]: Bigbomm (Index), Kustom Mega-blasta [9pts]

Deff Kopta [2 PL, 40pts]
. DeffKopta [40pts]: Bigbomm (Index), Twin Big Shoota [10pts]

Deff Kopta [2 PL, 40pts]
. DeffKopta [40pts]: Bigbomm (Index), Twin Big Shoota [10pts]

+ Heavy Support [27 PL, 555pts] +

Flash Gitz [7 PL, 150pts]
. 4x Flash Git [120pts]
. Kaptin [30pts]: Choppa, Gitfinda Squig

Flash Gitz [7 PL, 150pts]
. 4x Flash Git [120pts]
. Kaptin [30pts]: Choppa, Gitfinda Squig

Lootas [13 PL, 255pts]
. 15x Loota [255pts]

+ Dedicated Transport [6 PL, 128pts] +

Trukk [3 PL, 64pts]: Big Shoota [5pts]

Trukk [3 PL, 64pts]: Big Shoota [5pts]

++ Total: [99 PL, 2,000pts, -5CP] ++

Your list is pretty efficient and there is nothing you could take out anywhere.
You could experiment with doing double battalions instead of a brigade, losing 2 CP but freeing up the point of koptas and kommandoz for better units, like planes or mek guns.

Mind elaborating how you use Badrukk? There is painfully little info on him, and I would like to improve his description in the first post.

Played a 2000pt itc game against nods yesterday. Super close game but I won by 1 point. Badrukk advanced onto the center objective to win me the game after my opponent rolled 3 1s to fail to wound him.

I’m considering swapping 1 truck and 1 squad of flash gitz for 2 more weirdboyz, a warboss on foot and a smasha gun . Planning to use the footboss with a killaklaw evil suns and da jump I.e. ork smash kaptain. I’ll still keep the warboss on bike change him to freeboota and equip him with kustom shoota and big choppa. That’s 10 shots hitting on 4s if I proc +1 as well as providing some morale support for my 6 x10 grots.

Extra 2 weird boyz would take warpath and fist of gork (+2 s and a to be given to smash kaptain) which would mean I’d save 1 cp by not taking warphead. The two extra weirdboyz and kff big mek would create a snakebites supreme command detachment netting me an additional 1cp and giving possible sniper targets 6+++ as suggested in this thread.

I found it difficult to get badrukk within 6” of 2 squads of flashgitz.

@Jid: I guess it depends on how you read it. Take this sentence for example: "The sky is blue even if you are blind." The latter portion isn't required for the previous portion to be true. I feel like the Waaghs could be read similarly. Or, at the very least, are ambiguous enough to cause confusion.

I do agree with you and CaptainO that it ain't what they're supposed to be used for. I just think there's enough "wiggle room" that you could make a case that you *can* do it.

[size=12]There is some room to say it is ambiguous. The Should probably be written "in the controlling player's charge phase"' or "during your" somewhere in the rule. It does need some additional phrasing as to when the ability works.

 flandarz wrote:
@Jid: I guess it depends on how you read it. Take this sentence for example: "The sky is blue even if you are blind." The latter portion isn't required for the previous portion to be true. I feel like the Waaghs could be read similarly. Or, at the very least, are ambiguous enough to cause confusion.

I do agree with you and CaptainO that it ain't what they're supposed to be used for. I just think there's enough "wiggle room" that you could make a case that you *can* do it.

No, there really isn't any room for interpretation. There is no way to declare a regular charge during the enemy turn, simply because the phase never gives the non-active player permission to do his charges.
The rule would have to explicitly tell you when to do the charges (like Grotznik or the Custodes Stratagem does).

 Jidmah wrote:

 flandarz wrote:
@Jid: I guess it depends on how you read it. Take this sentence for example: "The sky is blue even if you are blind." The latter portion isn't required for the previous portion to be true. I feel like the Waaghs could be read similarly. Or, at the very least, are ambiguous enough to cause confusion.

I do agree with you and CaptainO that it ain't what they're supposed to be used for. I just think there's enough "wiggle room" that you could make a case that you *can* do it.

No, there really isn't any room for interpretation. There is no way to declare a regular charge during the enemy turn, simply because the phase never gives the non-active player permission to do his charges.
The rule would have to explicitly tell you when to do the charges (like Grotznik or the Custodes Stratagem does).

Yeah, this is a permissive ruleset. Unless it tells the player that they can explicitly do something in a phase, you basically can't generally speaking.

Technically, it DOES give permission.

Great Waaagh!: Friendly ORK INFANTRY units within
6" of Ghazghkull Thraka at the start of the Charge
phase can charge even if they Advanced this turn. In
addition, add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of models
in friendly ORK INFANTRY units if they made a charge
move this turn and Ghazghkull Thraka is within 6" of
that unit when they are chosen to fight.

Emphasis mine. Right there, it says that "at the start of the Charge Phase... can charge". Ergo, the wording of (Great/Speed) Waagh itself gives you permission. Another instance of the word "can" giving you permission to do something you normally couldn't do is the Showing Off Stratagem. "That unit can shoot all of its weapons a second time." Normally, you can only shoot once, but using this Strat allows you to shoot a second time. In the same way, normally you cannot charge during the opponent's Charge Phase. But the (Great/Speed) Waagh ability (which is worded similarly to Showing Off) seems to allow you to do so anyway.

Again, I don't think this is intended, but it DOES seem to be allowed. The only real hang-up seems to be the "even if they Advanced this turn" part, but as I said above, that's no different than saying "the sky is blue even if you are blind".

 flandarz wrote:
Technically, it DOES give permission.

Great Waaagh!: Friendly ORK INFANTRY units within
6" of Ghazghkull Thraka at the start of the Charge
phase can charge even if they Advanced this turn. In
addition, add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of models
in friendly ORK INFANTRY units if they made a charge
move this turn and Ghazghkull Thraka is within 6" of
that unit when they are chosen to fight.

Emphasis mine. Right there, it says that "at the start of the Charge Phase... can charge". Ergo, the wording of (Great/Speed) Waagh itself gives you permission. Another instance of the word "can" giving you permission to do something you normally couldn't do is the Showing Off Stratagem. "That unit can shoot all of its weapons a second time." Normally, you can only shoot once, but using this Strat allows you to shoot a second time. In the same way, normally you cannot charge during the opponent's Charge Phase. But the (Great/Speed) Waagh ability (which is worded similarly to Showing Off) seems to allow you to do so anyway.

Again, I don't think this is intended, but it DOES seem to be allowed. The only real hang-up seems to be the "even if they Advanced this turn" part, but as I said above, that's no different than saying "the sky is blue even if you are blind".

No, no, no.
You have taken the worrds completely out of context, altering the meaning of the sentence.
My English might have become rusty, but im very sure the "at the start of phase"-part only applies to what becomes before it, meaning the check of the distance.
The aura has two parts:
Who? Friendly ORK INFANTRY units within 6" of Ghazghkull Thraka at the start of the Charge phase
What? Can charge even if they Advanced this turn

The reason you still cannot charge during the enemy turn, is because there is never a time during an enemy turn where you would declare charges.

Think that there is some confusion between ‘turn’ and ‘battle round’. When the rules speak of ‘turn’, they refer to the active player. ‘Battle round’ would refer to both players ‘turns’.
So, ‘even if they advanced this turn’ refers to the active player.

Unfortunately, there's no way to be 100% certain that "at the start of the Charge Phase" only applies to the beginning of that sentence. Again, I don't believe the intent is to allow charges during your opponent's phase. However, I do believe you could make a case for it, by RAW.

If you're never allowed to charge during an opponent's turn, then the Mad Doc's ability wouldn't be able to work either, "automatically" or no. So we have SOME precedent for charging on an opponent's turn. The only difference is that one rule says you HAVE to charge, and the other says you CAN charge.

The sad part is that if the Waagh ability was written like the Showin' Off Stratagem, then this wouldn't be an issue. Because it specifies "during *your* Shooting Phase". The fact that it says "during THE Charge Phase" and is written in a way that it could be interpreted to allow charges during an opponent's turn, means that there is a fair RAW argument to allow it.

"Even if they advanced this turn" is an addendum to allow units that normally couldn't charge (because they advanced) to charge. Again: "the sky is blue even if you are blind" shows that the former can still be true even if the latter doesn't apply. As for the "turn" argument: your opponent also has a "turn" so there's still room to argue that it would be allowed during your opponent's turn.

Flandarz, ask your TO at tournaments and your opponent in casual games. See if they'd let you do it.

Well, as I said above, I don't think it's intended. So I don't plan to use it as such. That said, I could probably convince my opponent to be ok with it. Why? Well...

Anything my opponent wouldn't want to be charged is probably gonna be moved outside of 12" on their turn anyway, or screened.

If my opponent has something within charge range, they're probably trying to tie up some Lootas or another shooty unit.

I'm giving them the chance to Overwatch, so they can tie up a unit with less risk to themselves.

Feel free to take it to YMDC, but there really isn't any way to do without intentionally misreading what is written there.

Also note if you in fact do decide to read it that way, you MUST declare all orks charging from within a warboss aura first, otherwise you lose the permission to charge after advancing. If you want to shoot yourself in the foot like that, feel free to do so.

That seems like a lot of effort just to have the thread locked once people can't reach a solution. I just wanted to get the community's thoughts on it, from other Ork players, and explain my reasoning behind "seeing the exploit". As I said, it definitely ain't something I'd use (partially because it's only questionably allowed, but also because it DOES kind of put me at a disadvantage). But it was nice to have some discussion on how valid it might be.

I finally had a serious ork game in a long time, so I'll write up a battle report.
We played 2vs2 each player 1500 points, 2x orks vs Imperial Fists and Ultramarines (almost exclusively primaris).
Mission was Maelstrom from CA2018, the one where you generate objectives by giving your opponent two cards and they pick one - meaning you get a bunch of suck objective that are hard/impossible to archive. You can't get rid of objectives unless you pay CP for them.
The table was a lava-field with some stone spires and littered with freight containers, wich meant lots of LOS blocking but little actual cover. We declared all stone spires and containers to be statues, so cover if every model in a unit is within 1".

The blood axe player was running 4x 30 boyz (one unit shoota boyz), two warbosses (one has 'finking cap with Cunnin' but brutal), a KFF mek, a unit of tank bustas and 30 storm boyz.
I had a SSAG, weirdboy with da jump and fists of gork, warboss on bike with killa klaw, Mad Doc Grotsnik, 30 shoota boyz with a kombi rokit, 2x 10 gretchin, 15 lootas, two deff dreads with 2xklaws and 2x kmb each and a dakkajet and two burna bommers.

Enemies had a storm raven with an ironclad dread inside, two units of agressors, eliminators (primaris snipers), two units infiltrators (12" deep strike deny bubble), 10 sniper scouts with taleon, primaris calgar with honor guard, Chronus inside a quad las predator, helblasters, a dev squad with missiles and heavy bolters, a whirlwind, a unit of Inceptors (jump toops with dual heavy bolter pistols), 3 or 4 units of intercessors(basic troops), some captains and sergeants and a FW artillery thing that basically shoots a 2d6 damage lascannon. Or in short - a friggin' metric ton of bolters.

Deployment
Enemies win the roll-off which means we get to play first, but they get to pick the deployment type and their zone. Of course, they picked long table edges and we dropped all our stuff on the table, with the storm boyz out of LOS right at the edge of our deployment zone, the lootaz inside a toxic waste plant with a good view of the field and the gretchin go into the toxic waste in front of the plant
SSAG goes on top of one of the waste tanks.
Tank bustas hide out of sight on an objective, the two units of shoota boyz spread out to cover as much ground as possible, with the weird boy behind a rock near those units. Deff dreads go in the tellyporta. Mad doc just runs forward with the blood axes since his doesn't care about clans and can heal/buff any clan. The choppa boyz line up to march up the field.
Enemies deploy behind a wall made out of crates and rocks, with vehicles hiding from SAG and lootas as good as possible. The infiltrators spread out behind the crates, putting most of their army in their 12" bubble and the units themselves out of LOS, snipers stand on top of the crates.
Using Kunnin' but brutal. We re-deploy the SSAG to have better view of the vehicles, and the weird boy hides from snipers.

Round 1
The beakies don't seize, so my burna bommers advance and bomb 7 scouts and 1 Infiltrator, two mobs of boyz advance 6", the other only gets a one. Biker warboss follows behind storm boyz, allowing them to charge after advancing.
My mob of boyz jumps within 9" of a unit of intercessors that were too far right to be protected by the infiltrators, and shoot a few primaris dead.
During the shooting phase, the ultramarine player informs us that his honor guard can block shots aimed at any character, including Chronus. The proves to be wrong a few turns later, but is important to our decision making for the first two turns.
Since I can't really harm Chronus, I instead pop More Dakka on the SSAG and aim for the storm raven... getting 10 shots S9, rolling a total of 6 sixes, wounding all, dealing 17 damage to the thing and turning it into a huge ball of fire that drops on a flamer aggressor and kills it. More Dakka did nothing because I rolled all sixes
Lootas get 3 shots and pulverize the whirlwind, dealing 16 damage to it, dakka jet kills 5 helblasters, burna bommer shooting another one (hitting on sixes because they advanced).
Storm boyz charge the scouts and wipe them, shoota boyz charge the intercessors, kill six and manage to arrest one in the process. We score 2 VP and first blood, being left with Kingslaver (Kill papa smurf and his honor guard ) and defend objective in the middle of the enemy army.
Good thing players don't need to take moral tests, otherwise the marine player would have run off.

The marines move to get out of the 6" blast radius of the burna bommers and gun them down with everything the have - krak grenades, bolt pistols, and so much bolter fire. The artillery piece deals 7 damage to the dakka jet, Chronus whiffs, helblasters and devs finish it of. It explodes, and the explosion kills a helblaster an another aggressor. The ironclad guns down half a unit of choppa boyz advancing on the left flank - bolter drill+hurricane bolter hurts a lot.
All snipers try to kill Grotznik, but he saves a total for six wounds with 6+, remaining unwounded. Storm boyz get gunned down by intercessors and infiltrators.
All the primaris on the right flank charge into the ork boyz on the right flank, dealing a whooping 20 casualties and cause them to be wiped by morale - but not before taking the intercessor squad they charged with them.
They score 2 VP + first blood as well.

Round 2
Next turn, we move up. I jump the next unit of shoota boyz to gun down the honor guard because we need to kill Chronus before I can bring in my dreads. Weirdboyz does roll a double six, so 2 MW for him. We green tide the half-dead squad on the left and move it to the right, leaving most of the IF without targets. Biker warboss moves to the center, hoping to assassinate the sergeant or Chronus - the path is still blocked by helblasters though.
Shooting goes south. Shoota boyz deal one damage to the honor guard, so I have to shoot my lootas at them, dealing just 2 damage despite wounding 10 shots. Chronus remains untargetable, so I shoot at the ironclad dealing 7 damage to it, leaving it at 1.
Choppa boyz charge in the center, bouncing off the helblasters, killing just one, as well as the last agressor. This means the warboss is blocked and has to hit them as well... killing just one, leaving two alive. The tided boyz charge as well, killing a unit of intercessors, but fail to arrest a nearby squad. We manage to get one VP for sitting on an objective in the center.
In total, this turn was a disaster for us.

Marines bolter everything that can be boltered, wiping out the choppa squad in the center, the biker warboss, the choppa squad on the right and ~10 of the shoota boyz. Yes, that's ~70 dead ork boyz from a primaris space marine army that has lost 30% of its points.
The artillery shoots down the now exposed kunnin' warboss, Chronus whiffs again, inceptors drop onto the SSAG and gun it down. At this point, I read Chronus rules in their codex and find out that he actually loses his CHARACTER keyword when commanding a tank, so honor guard can't protect him at all! I use our last 2 CP for orks is never beaten on the dying SSAG and target Chronus to deal 13 damage, killing him.
Ironically, this scores us 1 VP since the ork mission objective to kill a unit with dakka just asks for the shooting phase, not "your shooting phase".
Enemies score 2 VP plus slay the warlord, putting them ahead one point.

Round 3
During our turn we decide to not drop more boyz into the meatgrinder behind the crates and gather the remaining ~50 boyz around grotznik and the KFF on the center objective (worth 3 VP to them). We jump the tank bustas onto a tower where they can shoot both the ironclad and the inceptors, the remaining warboss goes after the inceptors as well - when trying to buff him with fists of gork, the weirdboy decides to explode instead, showering some nearby gretchin in brain confetti. Since our CP are used up by now, part of the grot shield moves to take an objective that we need to defend. The marines have nothing left that could target the lootas without moving two turns first anyways. Deff dreads drop on the left flank, as the only thing left on the right side is many kinds of bolter marines and papa smurf.
During shooting, the lootas kill the artillery piece (their last anti-tank gun) and some intercessors, the tank bustas kill the ironclad with squigs and one aggressor with rokkit pistols. Shoota boyz kill two devs, dreads kill two eliminators.
Dreads fail the charge, warboss charges but only does two damage.
No VP awarded.

Agressors jump out of combat with the warboss and fail to do more than one damage, bolters bounce of deff dreads (one damage to each), snipers kill tank busters down to just the nob, rest of the armies tries to make the shoota boyz fail their morale to gain a VP. KFF and doc saved quite a few, so they didn't have enough shots to take the second squad low enough for LD to matter, so the decided to wipe the shoota boyz instead. Their last shot (Chronus' pistol) takes the last wound of the boss nob.
With a morale roll of 4, tank busta nob just barely fails its test and gains them a VP, 6:4 now.

Round 4
With little units left on the board, the lootas wipe a squad of 8 intercessors, dreads shoot aggressors to kill one, sluggas kill a heavy bolter dev. Grotznik tries to charge Taleon, but fails with 2+2 re-rolled int 2+1 (5" was needed). Remaining choppa boyz try to take out some exposed infiltrators, but bounce due to bad dice luck and awesome armor saves (14 successful saves). Dreads charge in and kill the aggressors and half a unit of intercessors. Gretchin move onto objectice they need to defend. Warboss catches and kills the inceptors.

During their turn, they gun down the remaining unit of boyz, the IF primaris captain kills a dread in combat, the other dread wipes the intercessors, Talon head-shots the KFF mek and the devs kill Grotznik with missiles. Gretchin defend for a 6:6 draw, we end the game as both sides are stuck with 4 impossible objectives and besides my dread (which will be dead at the end of the turn) no units are left outside their respective deployment zones.

It's very likely that the game would have ended differently without the honor guard confusion, but it was still a great game.

Takeaways:
- Running bloodaxes has proven useless once again (twice as useless against IF), but the deff skullz have been awesome. Time to paint everything blue.
- KMB deff dreads worked surprisingly well.
- In a similar setup, we need more gretchin so we have enough CP to just put all the boyz into the tellyporta. Walking across the field simply doesn't work.
- Burna bommers lose A LOT if people know what they can do. The marine players are the same guys running the tau in the battle report I did at the beginning of 8th who were basically wiped out by two burna bommers dropping on them. By leaving little space in their army and moving properly they pretty much denied me most targets so I had to bomb a unit of 5 primaris. In turn 2 neither bommer could have dropped a bomb, had they survived. Against seasoned players, dakka jets are superior by far.
- I take too many risks with my warboss.
- This mission is annoying, while very much balanced, having four objectives which you can't archive is pretty frustrating, even if both sides are.

 Jidmah wrote:

Spoiler:

I finally had a serious ork game in a long time, so I'll write up a battle report.
We played 2vs2 each player 1500 points, 2x orks vs Imperial Fists and Ultramarines (almost exclusively primaris).
Mission was Maelstrom from CA2018, the one where you generate objectives by giving your opponent two cards and they pick one - meaning you get a bunch of suck objective that are hard/impossible to archive. You can't get rid of objectives unless you pay CP for them.
The table was a lava-field with some stone spires and littered with freight containers, wich meant lots of LOS blocking but little actual cover. We declared all stone spires and containers to be statues, so cover if every model in a unit is within 1".

The blood axe player was running 4x 30 boyz (one unit shoota boyz), two warbosses (one has 'finking cap with Cunnin' but brutal), a KFF mek, a unit of tank bustas and 30 storm boyz.
I had a SSAG, weirdboy with da jump and fists of gork, warboss on bike with killa klaw, Mad Doc Grotsnik, 30 shoota boyz with a kombi rokit, 2x 10 gretchin, 15 lootas, two deff dreads with 2xklaws and 2x kmb each and a dakkajet and two burna bommers.

Enemies had a storm raven with an ironclad dread inside, two units of agressors, eliminators (primaris snipers), two units infiltrators (12" deep strike deny bubble), 10 sniper scouts with taleon, primaris calgar with honor guard, Chronus inside a quad las predator, helblasters, a dev squad with missiles and heavy bolters, a whirlwind, a unit of Inceptors (jump toops with dual heavy bolter pistols), 3 or 4 units of intercessors(basic troops), some captains and sergeants and a FW artillery thing that basically shoots a 2d6 damage lascannon. Or in short - a friggin' metric ton of bolters.

Deployment
Enemies win the roll-off which means we get to play first, but they get to pick the deployment type and their zone. Of course, they picked long table edges and we dropped all our stuff on the table, with the storm boyz out of LOS right at the edge of our deployment zone, the lootaz inside a toxic waste plant with a good view of the field and the gretchin go into the toxic waste in front of the plant
SSAG goes on top of one of the waste tanks.
Tank bustas hide out of sight on an objective, the two units of shoota boyz spread out to cover as much ground as possible, with the weird boy behind a rock near those units. Deff dreads go in the tellyporta. Mad doc just runs forward with the blood axes since his doesn't care about clans and can heal/buff any clan. The choppa boyz line up to march up the field.
Enemies deploy behind a wall made out of crates and rocks, with vehicles hiding from SAG and lootas as good as possible. The infiltrators spread out behind the crates, putting most of their army in their 12" bubble and the units themselves out of LOS, snipers stand on top of the crates.
Using Kunnin' but brutal. We re-deploy the SSAG to have better view of the vehicles, and the weird boy hides from snipers.

Round 1
The beakies don't seize, so my burna bommers advance and bomb 7 scouts and 1 Infiltrator, two mobs of boyz advance 6", the other only gets a one. Biker warboss follows behind storm boyz, allowing them to charge after advancing.
My mob of boyz jumps within 9" of a unit of intercessors that were too far right to be protected by the infiltrators, and shoot a few primaris dead.
During the shooting phase, the ultramarine player informs us that his honor guard can block shots aimed at any character, including Chronus. The proves to be wrong a few turns later, but is important to our decision making for the first two turns.
Since I can't really harm Chronus, I instead pop More Dakka on the SSAG and aim for the storm raven... getting 10 shots S9, rolling a total of 6 sixes, wounding all, dealing 17 damage to the thing and turning it into a huge ball of fire that drops on a flamer aggressor and kills it. More Dakka did nothing because I rolled all sixes
Lootas get 3 shots and pulverize the whirlwind, dealing 16 damage to it, dakka jet kills 5 helblasters, burna bommer shooting another one (hitting on sixes because they advanced).
Storm boyz charge the scouts and wipe them, shoota boyz charge the intercessors, kill six and manage to arrest one in the process. We score 2 VP and first blood, being left with Kingslaver (Kill papa smurf and his honor guard ) and defend objective in the middle of the enemy army.
Good thing players don't need to take moral tests, otherwise the marine player would have run off.

The marines move to get out of the 6" blast radius of the burna bommers and gun them down with everything the have - krak grenades, bolt pistols, and so much bolter fire. The artillery piece deals 7 damage to the dakka jet, Chronus whiffs, helblasters and devs finish it of. It explodes, and the explosion kills a helblaster an another aggressor. The ironclad guns down half a unit of choppa boyz advancing on the left flank - bolter drill+hurricane bolter hurts a lot.
All snipers try to kill Grotznik, but he saves a total for six wounds with 6+, remaining unwounded. Storm boyz get gunned down by intercessors and infiltrators.
All the primaris on the right flank charge into the ork boyz on the right flank, dealing a whooping 20 casualties and cause them to be wiped by morale - but not before taking the intercessor squad they charged with them.
They score 2 VP + first blood as well.

Round 2
Next turn, we move up. I jump the next unit of shoota boyz to gun down the honor guard because we need to kill Chronus before I can bring in my dreads. Weirdboyz does roll a double six, so 2 MW for him. We green tide the half-dead squad on the left and move it to the right, leaving most of the IF without targets. Biker warboss moves to the center, hoping to assassinate the sergeant or Chronus - the path is still blocked by helblasters though.
Shooting goes south. Shoota boyz deal one damage to the honor guard, so I have to shoot my lootas at them, dealing just 2 damage despite wounding 10 shots. Chronus remains untargetable, so I shoot at the ironclad dealing 7 damage to it, leaving it at 1.
Choppa boyz charge in the center, bouncing off the helblasters, killing just one, as well as the last agressor. This means the warboss is blocked and has to hit them as well... killing just one, leaving two alive. The tided boyz charge as well, killing a unit of intercessors, but fail to arrest a nearby squad. We manage to get one VP for sitting on an objective in the center.
In total, this turn was a disaster for us.

Marines bolter everything that can be boltered, wiping out the choppa squad in the center, the biker warboss, the choppa squad on the right and ~10 of the shoota boyz. Yes, that's ~70 dead ork boyz from a primaris space marine army that has lost 30% of its points.
The artillery shoots down the now exposed kunnin' warboss, Chronus whiffs again, inceptors drop onto the SSAG and gun it down. At this point, I read Chronus rules in their codex and find out that he actually loses his CHARACTER keyword when commanding a tank, so honor guard can't protect him at all! I use our last 2 CP for orks is never beaten on the dying SSAG and target Chronus to deal 13 damage, killing him.
Ironically, this scores us 1 VP since the ork mission objective to kill a unit with dakka just asks for the shooting phase, not "your shooting phase".
Enemies score 2 VP plus slay the warlord, putting them ahead one point.

Round 3
During our turn we decide to not drop more boyz into the meatgrinder behind the crates and gather the remaining ~50 boyz around grotznik and the KFF on the center objective (worth 3 VP to them). We jump the tank bustas onto a tower where they can shoot both the ironclad and the inceptors, the remaining warboss goes after the inceptors as well - when trying to buff him with fists of gork, the weirdboy decides to explode instead, showering some nearby gretchin in brain confetti. Since our CP are used up by now, part of the grot shield moves to take an objective that we need to defend. The marines have nothing left that could target the lootas without moving two turns first anyways. Deff dreads drop on the left flank, as the only thing left on the right side is many kinds of bolter marines and papa smurf.
During shooting, the lootas kill the artillery piece (their last anti-tank gun) and some intercessors, the tank bustas kill the ironclad with squigs and one aggressor with rokkit pistols. Shoota boyz kill two devs, dreads kill two eliminators.
Dreads fail the charge, warboss charges but only does two damage.
No VP awarded.

Agressors jump out of combat with the warboss and fail to do more than one damage, bolters bounce of deff dreads (one damage to each), snipers kill tank busters down to just the nob, rest of the armies tries to make the shoota boyz fail their morale to gain a VP. KFF and doc saved quite a few, so they didn't have enough shots to take the second squad low enough for LD to matter, so the decided to wipe the shoota boyz instead. Their last shot (Chronus' pistol) takes the last wound of the boss nob.
With a morale roll of 4, tank busta nob just barely fails its test and gains them a VP, 6:4 now.

Round 4
With little units left on the board, the lootas wipe a squad of 8 intercessors, dreads shoot aggressors to kill one, sluggas kill a heavy bolter dev. Grotznik tries to charge Taleon, but fails with 2+2 re-rolled int 2+1 (5" was needed). Remaining choppa boyz try to take out some exposed infiltrators, but bounce due to bad dice luck and awesome armor saves (14 successful saves). Dreads charge in and kill the aggressors and half a unit of intercessors. Gretchin move onto objectice they need to defend. Warboss catches and kills the inceptors.

During their turn, they gun down the remaining unit of boyz, the IF primaris captain kills a dread in combat, the other dread wipes the intercessors, Talon head-shots the KFF mek and the devs kill Grotznik with missiles. Gretchin defend for a 6:6 draw, we end the game as both sides are stuck with 4 impossible objectives and besides my dread (which will be dead at the end of the turn) no units are left outside their respective deployment zones.

It's very likely that the game would have ended differently without the honor guard confusion, but it was still a great game.

Takeaways:
- Running bloodaxes has proven useless once again (twice as useless against IF), but the deff skullz have been awesome. Time to paint everything blue.
- KMB deff dreads worked surprisingly well.
- In a similar setup, we need more gretchin so we have enough CP to just put all the boyz into the tellyporta. Walking across the field simply doesn't work.
- Burna bommers lose A LOT if people know what they can do. The marine players are the same guys running the tau in the battle report I did at the beginning of 8th who were basically wiped out by two burna bommers dropping on them. By leaving little space in their army and moving properly they pretty much denied me most targets so I had to bomb a unit of 5 primaris. In turn 2 neither bommer could have dropped a bomb, had they survived. Against seasoned players, dakka jets are superior by far.
- I take too many risks with my warboss.
- This mission is annoying, while very much balanced, having four objectives which you can't archive is pretty frustrating, even if both sides are.

Great report, nice to read about some other kultures than Evil Sunz and Freebootaz.

Good sportsmanship about the Chronus-Thing!

Hey everyone, I'm probably going to take the plunge and order 2 scrapjets. I love that model.

And I was thinking about this 1750p list.

BM on warbike kff
BM SSAG with big killa boss
Weirdboy

30 shoota boyz
10 shoota boyz
4 × 10 grots

5 kommandos
5 nobz

2 scrapjets
4 warbikes

15 lootas

Dakkajet
Wazbom blastajet with kff

Trukk

Bikes and scrappers go together and shoot stuff
Nobz go in the trukk.
Kommandos maybe in the trukk as extra wounds or as a DS unit.
Lootas... well I don't think I have to explain that.

I was thinking about going freeboota instead of the usual badmoons.

Do you think this has enough punch?

Gruxz wrote:
Hey everyone, I'm probably going to take the plunge and order 2 scrapjets. I love that model.

And I was thinking about this 1750p list.
<snip>
Do you think this has enough punch?

Looks like plenty punch, I just think the four bikers are odd. I'd drop them for something else.

 Jidmah wrote:

Gruxz wrote:
Hey everyone, I'm probably going to take the plunge and order 2 scrapjets. I love that model.

And I was thinking about this 1750p list.
<snip>
Do you think this has enough punch?

Looks like plenty punch, I just think the four bikers are odd. I'd drop them for something else.

Well they are there to provide the bm on bike some protection in case the scraps need to eat something. And also, 30 S5 shots is always nice to have. That way I have multiple units that pump out a lot of shots per turn.

Not sure what would be a better choice though, thoughts?

Gruxz wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

Gruxz wrote:
Hey everyone, I'm probably going to take the plunge and order 2 scrapjets. I love that model.

And I was thinking about this 1750p list.
<snip>
Do you think this has enough punch?

Looks like plenty punch, I just think the four bikers are odd. I'd drop them for something else.

Well they are there to provide the bm on bike some protection in case the scraps need to eat something. And also, 30 S5 shots is always nice to have. That way I have multiple units that pump out a lot of shots per turn.

Not sure what would be a better choice though, thoughts?

Only issue is that having only 4 makes them pretty easy to eat through and they're ripe for the D2 rich environment from plasma and autocannons. I feel like if you wanted to screen your big mek, you already have a bunch of stuff rushing through his front lines anyways that making him the closest target is unlikely, and I would say that using the trukk to outright block LoS for him would be better.

 Grimskul wrote:

Gruxz wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

Gruxz wrote:
Hey everyone, I'm probably going to take the plunge and order 2 scrapjets. I love that model.

And I was thinking about this 1750p list.
<snip>
Do you think this has enough punch?

Looks like plenty punch, I just think the four bikers are odd. I'd drop them for something else.

Well they are there to provide the bm on bike some protection in case the scraps need to eat something. And also, 30 S5 shots is always nice to have. That way I have multiple units that pump out a lot of shots per turn.

Not sure what would be a better choice though, thoughts?

Only issue is that having only 4 makes them pretty easy to eat through and they're ripe for the D2 rich environment from plasma and autocannons. I feel like if you wanted to screen your big mek, you already have a bunch of stuff rushing through his front lines anyways that making him the closest target is unlikely, and I would say that using the trukk to outright block LoS for him would be better.

That is an interesting idea, but using the truck to block LoS, I think I might be better off switching the nobz in the truck and the bikers for 6 flashgitz. More expensive but more shooty. Downside is the moving of the vehicle.

The following ork kits will be going up by $4-10 per box next week:
Nobz
Mek Guns
Killa Kanz
Battlewagon
Trukk
Lootas/burnas
Wazzbom (+$10!)
Gretchin
Boyz
Stormboyz

If you were planning to buy something, do it now!

I am looking for some C&C on my Ork list.

I would split the Meganobz, Wierdboy's and Warboss into separate Bonebreakaz. They would charge up the middle and shoot for large vehicles or his Warlord.

The lootaz, smasha gunz and SSAG (Which I do not know how to add in Battlescribe) would shoot for light/medium vehicles and fliers. The traktor cannon is for fliers then light/medium vehicles.

I would Tellyporta the 30 boyz on something that comes up.

I would turn both wierdboyz into Warpheads for the extra smite or buffs.

The 11 man boyz squad would shoot for anything in the middle.

1999 (9CP)
-1CP for the SSAG
-2 for the 2 Warpheads
-1 for Tellyporta

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [42 PL, -1CP, 802pts] ++
+ No Force Org Slot +
Clan Kultur: Bad Moons

+ HQ [7 PL, -1CP, 142pts] +
Big Mek W/ Shokk Attack Gun [4 PL, 80pts]: Shokk Attack Gun [25pts]
Weirdboy [3 PL, -1CP, 62pts]: 3. Da Jump, 4. Fists of Gork, Warphead [-1CP]

+ Troops [9 PL, 144pts] +
Boyz [7 PL, 84pts]: Tankbusta Bombs
. 12x Ork Boy W/ Shoota [84pts]

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin [30pts]

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin [30pts]

+ Heavy Support [23 PL, 452pts] +

Lootas [13 PL, 255pts]
. 15x Loota [255pts]

Mek Gunz [10 PL, 197pts]
. Gun [2 PL, 45pts]: Traktor Kannon [30pts]
. Gun [2 PL, 45pts]: Traktor Kannon [30pts]
. Gun [2 PL, 45pts]: Traktor Kannon [30pts]
. Gun [2 PL, 31pts]: Smasha Gun [16pts]
. Gun [2 PL, 31pts]: Smasha Gun [16pts]

+ Dedicated Transport [3 PL, 64pts] +
Trukk [3 PL, 64pts]: Big Shoota [5pts]

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [60 PL, -2CP, 1,197pts] ++
+ No Force Org Slot [-1CP] +
Clan Kultur: Goffs
Extra Gubbins (1/3 CP) [-1CP]: 1 Extra Shiny Gubbins [-1CP]

+ HQ [7 PL, -1CP, 152pts] +
Warboss [4 PL, 90pts]: Da Killa Klaw, Kombi-Rokkit [12pts], Power Klaw [13pts], Warlord
Weirdboy [3 PL, -1CP, 62pts]: 2. Warpath, 3. Da Jump, Warphead [-1CP]

+ Troops [19 PL, 363pts] +
Boyz [7 PL, 100pts]: Tankbusta Bombs
. Boss Nob [30pts]: Killsaw [15pts], Killsaw [8pts]
. 10x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa [70pts]

Boyz [11 PL, 233pts]: Skarboyz (1 CP), Tankbusta Bombs
. Boss Nob [30pts]: Killsaw [15pts], Killsaw [8pts]
. 29x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa [203pts]

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin [30pts]

+ Elites [16 PL, 344pts] +
Meganobz [8 PL, 172pts]
. Boss Meganob w/ Saws [2 PL, 43pts]: Killsaws (Pair) [23pts]
. Meganob w/ Saws [2 PL, 43pts]: Killsaws (Pair) [23pts]
. Meganob w/ Saws [2 PL, 43pts]: Killsaws (Pair) [23pts]
. Meganob w/ Saws [2 PL, 43pts]: Killsaws (Pair) [23pts]

Meganobz [8 PL, 172pts]
. Boss Meganob w/ Saws [2 PL, 43pts]: Killsaws (Pair) [23pts]
. Meganob w/ Saws [2 PL, 43pts]: Killsaws (Pair) [23pts]
. Meganob w/ Saws [2 PL, 43pts]: Killsaws (Pair) [23pts]
. Meganob w/ Saws [2 PL, 43pts]: Killsaws (Pair) [23pts]

+ Heavy Support [18 PL, 338pts] +
Bonebreaka [9 PL, 169pts]: 2x Big Shoota [10pts], Deff Rolla [19pts]
Bonebreaka [9 PL, 169pts]: 2x Big Shoota [10pts], Deff Rolla [19pts]

++ Total: [102 PL, -3CP, 1,999pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

i find it hilarious theyre increasing the price of killakanz when they havnt been relevant for what 10ish years?

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i find it hilarious theyre increasing the price of killakanz when they havnt been relevant for what 10ish years?

I find it even more hilarious, that they increase the price of Mek-Guns....one of the few units that costs more $ than points

That im not surprised at because mek gunz are a hot unit right now.
Its not like they pay attention to the gripes of it already being insanely expensive, they just notice that theyve sold a lot of it.

a mek gun box still makes 4 big guns when combined with a trukk. Though honestly otehr than my 8 mek guns (2 big gunz kits and 2 trukks) the rest of mine are all conversions and 3d printed.

free files on thingiverse (though i advise donating a few bucks to creators) plus a $180 Ender 3 printer = as many counts as models as you want. ( I do not advocate using copies of anybodie's IP more advocating using counts as models that are origional models released under creative commons license for your enjoyment)

Buying plastic cannons from toy sets (american civil war for example) and enhancing them with your bits box also works really well.

Anyone have success with Goff shootas?

I think most folks stay away from Goff, in general. That said, it'll probably work fine, even if it ain't very Goffy to shoot at things.