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I’m considering swapping out 5 flashgitz and a trukk for 4 mek gunz, a painboy and 2 more slugga boyz. The trukk gives the flashgitz some protection but once it’s destroyed I’m finding the flashgitz suffer from the same problem as nobz (unsurprisingly) in that everyone loves to use their d2 weapons on them. They’re the only viable target for multi wound weapons too The 24” range means they’re going to die the turn after they shoot.

CaptainO wrote:
I’m considering swapping out 5 flashgitz and a trukk for 4 mek gunz, a painboy and 2 more slugga boyz. The trukk gives the flashgitz some protection but once it’s destroyed I’m finding the flashgitz suffer from the same problem as nobz (unsurprisingly) in that everyone loves to use their d2 weapons on them. They’re the only viable target for multi wound weapons too The 24” range means they’re going to die the turn after they shoot.

I have found flash gitxz much worse than nobz. with nobz throw em in a bone breaker, run em up and get them stuck in. if you choose targets wisely you can disembark and charge somthing but not overkill it, then you tripeak a model so the unit cannot fall back then finish them off in your opponent's turn.

That said if you are playing with sufficient terrain flash gitz can hide and only need to draw LOS to things they want to shoot. I find a lot people try to set up boards with planet bowling ball with maybe 4 pieces of signifigant terrain plus a couple pieces of small scatter terrain and that just makes many ork units completely ineffective. my most common said thing when asked if i want to play a game after lookign at a table is "sure as long as we add about 3x this much terrain"

Ya I have enough close combat with 70 evil sunz boyz and 2 warbosses (plus the fact that even non cc based orks still pack a punch) so Nobz aren’t needed. I was hoping with the flashgitz to make use of the freeboota trait and badrukk but I just think 4 extra smash gunz with be better at shooting.

The main issue with both nobz and flashgitz is that they’re the only viable option for whatever d2 weapons my enemy has. Everything else is either 1 wound or a character.

The mek gunz, which normally suffer from poor morale (if one dies in a unit of two the other flees on a 4+)would benefit from the freeboota relic too. Obviously the mek gunz then become the target for the d2 weapons but at least they’re t5 and have 6 wounds. Now all I have to do if fit them and the 70 boyz in a 9” bubble.

CaptainO wrote:
Ya I have enough close combat with 70 evil sunz boyz and 2 warbosses (plus the fact that even non cc based orks still pack a punch) so Nobz aren’t needed. I was hoping with the flashgitz to make use of the freeboota trait and badrukk but I just think 4 extra smash gunz with be better at shooting.

The main issue with both nobz and flashgitz is that they’re the only viable option for whatever d2 weapons my enemy has. Everything else is either 1 wound or a character.

The mek gunz, which normally suffer from poor morale (if one dies in a unit of two the other flees on a 4+)would benefit from the freeboota relic too. Obviously the mek gunz then become the target for the d2 weapons but at least they’re t5 and have 6 wounds. Now all I have to do if fit them and the 70 boyz in a 9” bubble.

Don't they (Mek Gunz) split on deployment? So they're NOT one unit?

CaptainO wrote:
Ya I have enough close combat with 70 evil sunz boyz and 2 warbosses (plus the fact that even non cc based orks still pack a punch) so Nobz aren’t needed. I was hoping with the flashgitz to make use of the freeboota trait and badrukk but I just think 4 extra smash gunz with be better at shooting.

The main issue with both nobz and flashgitz is that they’re the only viable option for whatever d2 weapons my enemy has. Everything else is either 1 wound or a character.

The mek gunz, which normally suffer from poor morale (if one dies in a unit of two the other flees on a 4+)would benefit from the freeboota relic too. Obviously the mek gunz then become the target for the d2 weapons but at least they’re t5 and have 6 wounds. Now all I have to do if fit them and the 70 boyz in a 9” bubble.

mek guns are immune to moral. "mek gunz" rule they have to be placed within 6 inches of eachother and then act independently from that point forward

as for not needing close combat depends on the list, with a lot of boyz sure undeeded, but I prefer to throw down all vehicles so 2-3 bone breakers with units inside, deffkilla wartrike etc.

Killakanz are the only ork unit that actually has a morale problem.
Everything else splits or is a measly 30pt grot unit anyway.

 G00fySmiley wrote:

CaptainO wrote:
Ya I have enough close combat with 70 evil sunz boyz and 2 warbosses (plus the fact that even non cc based orks still pack a punch) so Nobz aren’t needed. I was hoping with the flashgitz to make use of the freeboota trait and badrukk but I just think 4 extra smash gunz with be better at shooting.

The main issue with both nobz and flashgitz is that they’re the only viable option for whatever d2 weapons my enemy has. Everything else is either 1 wound or a character.

The mek gunz, which normally suffer from poor morale (if one dies in a unit of two the other flees on a 4+)would benefit from the freeboota relic too. Obviously the mek gunz then become the target for the d2 weapons but at least they’re t5 and have 6 wounds. Now all I have to do if fit them and the 70 boyz in a 9” bubble.

mek guns are immune to moral. "mek gunz" rule they have to be placed within 6 inches of eachother and then act independently from that point forward

as for not needing close combat depends on the list, with a lot of boyz sure undeeded, but I prefer to throw down all vehicles so 2-3 bone breakers with units inside, deffkilla wartrike etc.

Cheers. I’ve been running a single mek gun so i didn’t notice that rule. I tried running a few battlewagons and bonebreakers but I just didn’t find them points efficient. I’ve found that target saturation only works if all the targets given are equal. My list is tailored for itc tournaments where peoples armies are designed to take on all comers. Vehicles like the bonebreker provide my opponent with somewhere to put their AT weappnry (similarly nobz or flashgitz) by running nothing but 1 w models and characters any multi damage stuff is wasted. My model count for 2000 points is now 177 though.

Wagons hit pretty dang hard but thats about it really.
I run wagons alot and i generally run into their 3 issues all the time.
1) Boyz dont do much out of a wagon, mild exception for 2x10 boy squads with a rokkit as deathskulls for the rerollshenanigans on both the rokkit and pklaw but even then meh.
2) Nonboyz that go in a wagon are EXPENSIVE so its difficult to field multiple, equally dangerous threats to avoid the one with nobz/flash gits/tankbustas just getting immediately hammered hard.
3) Wagons are silly easy to destroy thanks to that 4+ armor. Its difficult to keep a KFF on them unless the mek is in it because of the "unit must be wholly within 9" crap. Most of what hits them ignores their armor completely.

i pretty much only keep using them because rule of cool and unlike killakanz they DO work, just not as amazing as you'd expect.

Has anyone tried evil sunz dreads with 3-4 skorchas? Outside of deathskulls 2x kmb deff dreads I haven't experimented with dakka dreads much.
Thought it might be a novel approach worth trying given theyd have something like 8+d6 inch movement with the advance. They'd be about 123 points each, which is the same cost as 4 nobz with Kombi skorchas.

 Quackzo wrote:
Has anyone tried evil sunz dreads with 3-4 skorchas? Outside of deathskulls 2x kmb deff dreads I haven't experimented with dakka dreads much.
Thought it might be a novel approach worth trying given theyd have something like 8+d6 inch movement with the advance. They'd be about 123 points each, which is the same cost as 4 nobz with Kombi skorchas.

Too expensive and extremely unlikely that you'd be able to pull it off given that you only 8" range for your skorchas. Even if you advance and shoot them, they're too slow footslogging to reach any ideal targets unless your opponents are really bad at positioning units, and if you tellyport them they are out of range for their weapons. They're also effectively free kills since they have such a small threat range and the majority of anti-tank weaponry will readily down them. You want a good flamer unit? Use a Supa-Skorcha Big Trakk from FW, you get 3D3 S6 AP-2 auto hits at 24" inch range, moves way faster, has more wounds and can transport 6 guys inside (i.e. tankbustas) alongside being able to take 2 skorchas on top if you really want to overdo it. They're also one of the few units that benefit from the Blood Axes kultur the most, since they can fall back and shoot even if someone is foolish enough to charge it in CC, while also being able to use the +1 cover in the open part of the kultur that few units can.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Wagons hit pretty dang hard but thats about it really.
I run wagons alot and i generally run into their 3 issues all the time.
1) Boyz dont do much out of a wagon, mild exception for 2x10 boy squads with a rokkit as deathskulls for the rerollshenanigans on both the rokkit and pklaw but even then meh.
2) Nonboyz that go in a wagon are EXPENSIVE so its difficult to field multiple, equally dangerous threats to avoid the one with nobz/flash gits/tankbustas just getting immediately hammered hard.
3) Wagons are silly easy to destroy thanks to that 4+ armor. Its difficult to keep a KFF on them unless the mek is in it because of the "unit must be wholly within 9" crap. Most of what hits them ignores their armor completely.

i pretty much only keep using them because rule of cool and unlike killakanz they DO work, just not as amazing as you'd expect.

This matches my experience with battlewagons 100%. I'll drop them completely for buggies and nauts as soon as everything is assembled and painted, they just do the same job much better.


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 Quackzo wrote:
Has anyone tried evil sunz dreads with 3-4 skorchas? Outside of deathskulls 2x kmb deff dreads I haven't experimented with dakka dreads much.
Thought it might be a novel approach worth trying given theyd have something like 8+d6 inch movement with the advance. They'd be about 123 points each, which is the same cost as 4 nobz with Kombi skorchas.

I really don't see how this would be better than a dread with just 1klaw+3saws. If you walk it across the board, you'll be lucky if its not dead right away, if you deep strike you will not be able to shoot.

If anyone complains about the competitiveness of orks please give the latest episode of the 40k stats show episode 4 a listen. We’re smashing it in tournaments with a number of different builds.


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#justgetgood

Yeah orks are always weird like that; eventhough they seem to be really bad, somehow they seem to consistently win tournaments across a lot of editions/rulesets. Never as dominating as the 'current' meta list, but winning tournaments regardless.

I belive it is because there are a lot of Ork players that plays for the fluff and the models and few that plays competitively. Those in the middle complain about orks as they would complain about any other army.
Orks need commitment and love and training to work

Before I begin, I thank everyone here. You gits are best.

After reading this and "cant get orks to work" threads I had a 1600 (guy needed these 100 points, well, I used it for toys) game with some martian red-butts.
Two orks battallions (bad moons weird 42 + ssag + 15 lootas + gnaut; evil suns 70 boyz + biked killa claw + kff mek) clashed with few castellans, onager, electropriests mob, pack of servitors, bunch of dominus priests and assassins vanguard (3 of them, no sniper).
I was about to go 2nd, seized initiative and... Game was nearly done at T2 after deepstriked electricians failed to charge lootas. Even if they didn't, there was nothing for lootas to do anyway - no top dice rolled, but ssag + 15 lootas pulverized everything they saw. OK, except servitors - these pesky guys were recovered ("fresh converts" strat) 2 times.

What I have to say.
- know the basics
all these moves like "charge one unit and embrace another in hth" are nothing new, but are easy to forget for newbs like me
- know the drill
Think about roles, target saturation, combos and ways to win before you start deploying
- know your enemy
"Fresh converts" was a surprise stratagem. Second cast of it was another surprise since I haven't paid attention to wording and thought about it like "oh, another endless green tide, once per battle".

Part of the reason orks are placing decently at tournaments is because their mentality is so different to other armies that unless you are designed to deal with a majority of stuff orks can do while also sacrificing your ability to deal with knight/flier soups, you are gonna have an uphill battle against orks.
The low-bar orks can perform at is surprisingly high compared to other armies, but the high-bar isnt too much higher.

That, and like Emicrania said, ork players are usually really big into fluffyness. Its hard to play orks in a true competitive mindset because often its a really, really bad idea to do what the ork would totally do in a given situation.
My bosses usually die because of just that. "By boss really shouldnt be charging that....but zog it WAAAAAAGH!!" and he dies lol

If that works for blood angels we can do it too I suppose. Sacrificing our rather cheap bosses to kill something that may cause issues.

But the big reason orks can do rather well is that in the game of Rock-Paper-Scissors of 40K orks chose to bring a mushroom and no one is quite certain how things fit in with that but somehow the ork manages to make it work.

What do you guys think what makes a great ork list? Do you need to for cookiecutters and take a bit of everything? Or is it smarter to go all in on certain themes? Like go heavy on certain aspects like boys/models, go heavy on armor, shooting or fast speed?

I wanted to know what you guys's take on this is.

Gruxz wrote:
What do you guys think what makes a great ork list? Do you need to for cookiecutters and take a bit of everything? Or is it smarter to go all in on certain themes? Like go heavy on certain aspects like boys/models, go heavy on armor, shooting or fast speed?

I wanted to know what you guys's take on this is.

Orks are now in a pretty similar state as they were during the golden times of Phil Kelly's codex. Green tide and dakka orks are a pair of very competitive archetypes with freebootas and tellyporting nauts being sub-types of the regular dakka orks. Speed freaks focusing on buggies and bikes are decent in casual environments and might be moving up to competitive if they get point drops. Within those archetypes there are plenty choices to change your list according to your meta and play-style, so there is no one list that does well for everyone - there have been top placing ork lists that didn't bring a single loota and some that brought 10 MANz. The only things that are mandatory is the SSAG Da Killa Boss and the weird 32 - 3x10 gretchin and 2 weird boyz to get da jump and access to 5CP as cheap as possible. Otherwise you just go through a checklist, to see if your brought everything you need.

If you stray from those archetypes, don't expect your list to work at all. Anything related to transports is dead in the water, dread mobs will leave your with a bunch of craters unless you tellyport everything in and mixing green tide and speed freaks will just provide your enemy with the perfect targets for every gun he brought. "A bit of everything" is usually the reason why new ork players quit the game, as that's worst possible thing you could do with orks.

Are you asking about a tournament list?It 100% depends on your play style. I love hordes so run 180ish models and have been having good success. The 3 GT winners were all running over 100 models. It’s taken me a fair few games to get used to running so many models and if the tournament uses a chess clock I’m under pressure throughout. I know some others have been having success with freeboota gorkanaut and morkanauts with a few dakka jets.

 Jidmah wrote:

Gruxz wrote:
What do you guys think what makes a great ork list? Do you need to for cookiecutters and take a bit of everything? Or is it smarter to go all in on certain themes? Like go heavy on certain aspects like boys/models, go heavy on armor, shooting or fast speed?

I wanted to know what you guys's take on this is.

Orks are now in a pretty similar state as they were during the golden times of Phil Kelly's codex. Green tide and dakka orks are a pair of very competitive archetypes with freebootas and tellyporting nauts being sub-types of the regular dakka orks. Speed freaks focusing on buggies and bikes are decent in casual environments and might be moving up to competitive if they get point drops. Within those archetypes there are plenty choices to change your list according to your meta and play-style, so there is no one list that does well for everyone - there have been top placing ork lists that didn't bring a single loota and some that brought 10 MANz. The only things that are mandatory is the SSAG Da Killa Boss and the weird 32 - 3x10 gretchin and 2 weird boyz to get da jump and access to 5CP as cheap as possible. Otherwise you just go through a checklist, to see if your brought everything you need.

If you stray from those archetypes, don't expect your list to work at all. Anything related to transports is dead in the water, dread mobs will leave your with a bunch of craters unless you tellyport everything in and mixing green tide and speed freaks will just provide your enemy with the perfect targets for every gun he brought. "A bit of everything" is usually the reason why new ork players quit the game, as that's worst possible thing you could do with orks.

That's some solid advice Jidmah, thank you. I'm a shooty player that loves the armored side of orks. It just kinda bothers me that it leaves me with a smallish body count. Ofc I can toss some grots at objectives, but they don't have a lot of staying power.

CaptainO wrote:
Are you asking about a tournament list?It 100% depends on your play style. I love hordes so run 180ish models and have been having good success. The 3 GT winners were all running over 100 models. It’s taken me a fair few games to get used to running so many models and if the tournament uses a chess clock I’m under pressure throughout. I know some others have been having success with freeboota gorkanaut and morkanauts with a few dakka jets.

Yeah I'm looking for some semi-competitive stuff. I want to have a fun list that stands a nice chance. I don't need an I-win button army.
I have tons of boys, but the movement is very tedious. And I haven't had a lot of succes lately. Hence my question here. I think what Jidmah said might be the reason. I had a little pallet of everything for every role, but it doesn't really work for me. Or I have some terrible strategies lolz

Hordes tends to be hard to master because the learning curve, especially in a competitive environment is pretty steep, read clockwise. A freebooterz list might be more oriented to your playstyle, or even a deffskull list with MSU to abuse the trait. Grots wins you game because of obsec and Grots shield and their size, which makes them easy to hide.
Check the lists on first page and play some games with proxy in order to get a feeling.


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@Jidmah, do you know if there is any discussion where PJ pants explain how did he uses his list ? I wanted to play the flashgitz from forever and I have 10 on my painting list just waiting to be used .

 Emicrania wrote:
@Jidmah, do you know if there is any discussion where PJ pants explain how did he uses his list ? I wanted to play the flashgitz from forever and I have 10 on my painting list just waiting to be used .

My guess is it's a short range loota bomb that takes the center of the board turn 2 and then just stays there all game. Walk the grots where you want to play, flash gitz behind them, then get a kill with a mek gun (or kaptin) and start shooting the gitz. I think the list is a relatively immobile castle that has to be really far forward, so he'd play like a tau list with broadsides, deploy as close as possible and try to move as little as possible.

I still want to see someone just completely fill up their list with a single unit, Force Org be damned. Like, nothing but Tankbustas, or ONLY Flash Gitz or Lootas or something. No transports, no special bits. JUST one type.

I just wanna know how the opponent reacts and how it would do. Could you imagine a pure Tankbusta list agains, say, a Guard Tank-spam? Or Marines? (Rokkits still ignore MEQ armor, right?)

well, that would be an open play game and open play is its own can of worms.
Rule of 3 and all.

Well, unless you're using Troops, you'll run into the Rule of Three problem. You'll also won't be able to run any Detachments, meaning no Warlord Trait and no Stratagems. The only list I could envision that could possibly make this work would be Boy Spam. Maybe Grot Spam, where your entire gameplan is to just sit on Objectives and hope to outlast your opponent... but the Boyz will be more useful overall.

 Emicrania wrote:
@Jidmah, do you know if there is any discussion where PJ pants explain how did he uses his list ? I wanted to play the flashgitz from forever and I have 10 on my painting list just waiting to be used .

Didn't find anything from the player himself, but some other player reported that he was running them up the center of the field as a deff-ball protected by gretchin, with tank bustas tellyporting in.


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Gruxz wrote:
Yeah I'm looking for some semi-competitive stuff. I want to have a fun list that stands a nice chance. I don't need an I-win button army.
I have tons of boys, but the movement is very tedious. And I haven't had a lot of succes lately. Hence my question here. I think what Jidmah said might be the reason. I had a little pallet of everything for every role, but it doesn't really work for me. Or I have some terrible strategies lolz

Dakka orks have been successful with as little as two units of boyz. You jump one and tellyport the other in on the same turn. Most run a third unit to jump T1 as a distraction or to support ongoing fights T3. Gretchin' staying power isn't really a factor, as everything should be shooting boyz.

If you really hate moving models, this is a pretty decent way to play, as the boyz just hang in the back and block deep strikes till they get jumped. You just need enough gretchin to get those 13/15 CP.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:
@Jidmah, do you know if there is any discussion where PJ pants explain how did he uses his list ? I wanted to play the flashgitz from forever and I have 10 on my painting list just waiting to be used .

Didn't find anything from the player himself, but some other player reported that he was running them up the center of the field as a deff-ball protected by gretchin, with tank bustas tellyporting in.


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Gruxz wrote:
Yeah I'm looking for some semi-competitive stuff. I want to have a fun list that stands a nice chance. I don't need an I-win button army.
I have tons of boys, but the movement is very tedious. And I haven't had a lot of succes lately. Hence my question here. I think what Jidmah said might be the reason. I had a little pallet of everything for every role, but it doesn't really work for me. Or I have some terrible strategies lolz

Dakka orks have been successful with as little as two units of boyz. You jump one and tellyport the other in on the same turn. Most run a third unit to jump T1 as a distraction or to support ongoing fights T3. Gretchin' staying power isn't really a factor, as everything should be shooting boyz.

If you really hate moving models, this is a pretty decent way to play, as the boyz just hang in the back and block deep strikes till they get jumped. You just need enough gretchin to get those 13/15 CP.

Interesting stuff Jidmah, thank you.

Flashgitz deathball is interesting.

Red anvildudes hope for multiple maxed elite units. Problem is only one unit cant use the grot shield strat so once it’s activated the opponent will switch fire to a unit of equal value that’s now unprotected.

CaptainO wrote:
Flashgitz deathball is interesting.

Red anvildudes hope for multiple maxed elite units. Problem is only one unit cant use the grot shield strat so once it’s activated the opponent will switch fire to a unit of equal value that’s now unprotected.

That is my fear about protecting flashgitz.

t1 dajump 30 boyz, Charge everything, advance with grots and gitz. Always start second and play reactionary and protect from enemy DS.
T2 start the problem. Can DS the Busta and either dajump the other 30 boyz or you need to dajump the gitz you haven't placed in the right position a this given time. Now, do you just walk the gitz and have the mek and boss following them or do you bait the opponent? The 24" range it is the biggest problem the gitz have for their price. Dunno, I'll try after the summer.