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 flandarz wrote:
If you got with Deffskull Dreadz, you should spare yourself from a lot of MWs, but I'd probably just run them with Rokkits. You'll only be missing out on 1 point of AP, but you'll drop the risk of exploding. Alternatively, throw them into a Tellyporta and give them a melee loadout. Especially good if -1s to hit are on the table. Having a 16.7% chance to hit but a 33% chance to hurt yourself is (in my opinion) worse than just not having any shooting at all.

That makes sense. What about 3 klaws and a scorcha? It is short range but S5 -1AP auto-hits doesn't seem too bad if you are wanting to get up close and personal anyway.

I'm actually a fan of a trio of deep striking deffskull deff dreads with double KMBs. I don't have too many issues with MWs.

And more often than not I'll take the deffskull reroll on a D6 damage KMB over a flat 3 rokkit.

And like Jidmah said, KMBs are cheaper to boot.

By the time you get into Skorcha range, you'll probably be exploded. 8" just isn't enough.

Ya, dual KMBs can work, but not in an environment where -1 (or more) to hit exists. Like I said, a single -1 to hit is now a 1 in 3 chance to take an MW.

That said, Dreadz got plenty of Wounds, so if you just want to risk it, it's not gonna hurt you too much. You're more likely to get destroyed by the enemy than your own guns.

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
I'm actually a fan of a trio of deep striking deffskull deff dreads with double KMBs. I don't have too many issues with MWs.

Same here, but I have found the magic number to be two deff dreads per unit. I often find that I'm not able to fit three into a hole my enemy has in his deep strike screen, but not two.

KMBs only damage their user on UNMODIFIED ones, so -1 to hit doesn't matter. Plus the dreads survives two turns maximum, so the one mortal wound you take across two dreads doesn't really matter either.

When not running deff skulls, the only viable load-out is full melee and tellyporta. No dread will ever survive waddling across the board, and the rokkit launcha is a waste of points. Why would you pay points to downgrade your gun from a KMB to a rokkit?

 flandarz wrote:


Ya, dual KMBs can work, but not in an environment where -1 (or more) to hit exists. Like I said, a single -1 to hit is now a 1 in 3 chance to take an MW.

.

Bear in mind that for the entire ork codex, only unmodified 1s to hit overheat. Truth is, that should apply game wide, but Geedubz is a fickle mistress, so we orks enjoy safe, stable plasma weaponry when compared to imperium and tau. Go figure.

Huh. Neat. Yeah, that's good then. Screw the Rokkits.

Of course, I usually run my shooty Dreadz with Big Shootaz anyway. Two BSs are gonna hit 2 shots, on average, while 2 KMBs will be hitting 0.66. I'd rather have 2 mediocre hits than to whiff with a great weapon.

With the deff skulls trait and dakkadakkadakka you hit about one per dread, plus you re-roll to wound and damage.

Dreads of other cultures have no business shooting, you should just bring a buggy instead.

addnid wrote:
I think orks can beat a typical tau list if orks have 3 dakkajets to go reach and shoot shield drones protecting broadsides/riptides. This will enable the SSAG + mek gunz to drop a non 3++ riptide or some broadsides. From there on a tau player will have trouble getting rid of 90 boyz and the dakkajets + SSAG + mek gunz all at the same time.

The rick is to save the grot shield for your SSAG if you have sniper drones threatening you.
my two cents

I've run a couple of different builds against the local tau player. If he goes first (which I always let him do as I'm prepping for tournaments) he can take out vehicles soooo easily. He hits so accurately due to buffs and marker lights that any -1 to hit is ignored.He deploys defensively anyway but going first wouldnt hurt. The ability to use my mobility to steal objectives works really well too. The best thing about horde lists for me is how my opponent has to waste all those High AP multi damage shots on boyz or even better for me grots with a 5++ or 6+++.

Charging 90 boyz at a tau gunline will not end well for the orks unless they make use of some terrain to cut down on overwatch. ITC definitely helps do this (which needless to say means he doesn't like it. I use the grot shield strat on my Gitz bomb so If my opponent has snipers I have to deploy my SSAG on the bottom floor T1 and move him up using more dakka strat to mitigate the -1.

I tabled T2 a T'au player yesterday. He had the FW 1100 points model. He went first, I deployed WAY BACK, he had to move and doing so he basically lost the game. I lost 10 grots, 14 W on a Gorkanaut and a DJ on 1 W. T'au are really straightforward to beat you bring enough dakka. Focus the drones hard. Than all the hard shots in the big boys. Just deploy right and move carefully. Personally DG and Nurgle are a Matchup I hate due the grind and Ad mech... I just can't win vs ad mech ...

 Emicrania wrote:
I tabled T2 a T'au player yesterday. He had the FW 1100 points model. He went first, I deployed WAY BACK, he had to move and doing so he basically lost the game. I lost 10 grots, 14 W on a Gorkanaut and a DJ on 1 W. T'au are really straightforward to beat you bring enough dakka. Focus the drones hard. Than all the hard shots in the big boys. Just deploy right and move carefully. Personally DG and Nurgle are a Matchup I hate due the grind and Ad mech... I just can't win vs ad mech ...

Do you find DG hard to beat or just a pain because of their resilience?

Thayme wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:
I tabled T2 a T'au player yesterday. He had the FW 1100 points model. He went first, I deployed WAY BACK, he had to move and doing so he basically lost the game. I lost 10 grots, 14 W on a Gorkanaut and a DJ on 1 W. T'au are really straightforward to beat you bring enough dakka. Focus the drones hard. Than all the hard shots in the big boys. Just deploy right and move carefully. Personally DG and Nurgle are a Matchup I hate due the grind and Ad mech... I just can't win vs ad mech ...

Do you find DG hard to beat or just a pain because of their resilience?

He is probably referring "DG and nurgle" as one list, since that's one of the top chaos builds. Basically bring the daemon troops and the death guard shooting.

In general, almost army-wide 3+/5++ and 5+ DR throws a wrench in almost any weight of fire attempt. However, my experience with playing Death Guard themselves is that they really don't have many tools to handle hordes besides terminators. I have no clue how to beat a unit of 10 blightlords as ork though, since them not dying easily is kind of the point of that unit. Two wounds with 2+/4++/5+++ are a tough nut to crack.

Yeah, It Is a Jid Say. Last 2 tournaments I met the same list, or a variation of that 3 times. 60 PB, Sloppity, tanks, bloghtspawn and blightlords. If I go first I focus one unit and try to bring it under 20 and than focus the tanks. Otherwise -2 to hit one unit and 4+ Invu the other it becomes a grind fest that requires careful moving and planning.

From a Death Guard perspective, I'd say don't focus tanks.
PBC are more durable than knights and only cost a fraction of them. They also only do a fraction of their damage, so you should ignore or tar-pit them. Preferably by consolidating into them to dodge the spitters.
I pretty much win any game where people are focusing my PBC because they waste so many resources on killing them.

I have no actual experience with fighting them though, as I'm the only DG player here.

During recent tournament I marginally won 12-8 against Nurgle list (mostly because of bad luck on mael).
The key is to play fast. We only made 4 turns, but in 5-6 turn game I table him.

Lootas ignore -2 to hit and can kill or cripple 30 plaguebearers in two turns, SAGs deal with PBC over several turns and boyz jump in later along with tankbustas.

I even da jumped SSAG to his backline to snipe characters.

It is definetly a grind, but imho it is hard to lose: you basically have 2-3 shooting phases without any serious counter fire.
Just don’t dive in turn 1, avoid recent dajumps of boyz.

If Nurgle is paired with 1k sons - place ssags outside ahriman threat range, it can easily nuke them from afar.

 Emicrania wrote:
A walking boss can fight 3 times, a bike boss only twice. Difference is that a bikeboss can move 14+D6" and charge, where a walking boss only 5+D6"

How are you fighting twice with a biker boss and three times with a warboss? Are you counting the enemies turn?

 Sluggaloo wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:
A walking boss can fight 3 times, a bike boss only twice. Difference is that a bikeboss can move 14+D6" and charge, where a walking boss only 5+D6"

How are you fighting twice with a biker boss and three times with a warboss? Are you counting the enemies turn?

It CAN happen-if you're fighting Wulfen or Noise Marines or Marines by an Ancient.

Fight once normally.
End of phase, Fight Again Strat. Kill some people, who strike back on death, get killed.
Use Fight In Death Strat.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Sluggaloo wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:
A walking boss can fight 3 times, a bike boss only twice. Difference is that a bikeboss can move 14+D6" and charge, where a walking boss only 5+D6"

How are you fighting twice with a biker boss and three times with a warboss? Are you counting the enemies turn?

It CAN happen-if you're fighting Wulfen or Noise Marines or Marines by an Ancient.

Fight once normally.
End of phase, Fight Again Strat. Kill some people, who strike back on death, get killed.
Use Fight In Death Strat.

Ditto

Not only noise marines. You just need to pile in into a squad who hasn’t fought yet. Recent FAQ covered this, so the enemy will have their turn to fight back.

Yeah. I got a GT the first weekend of September and I'm still trying to decide wether to bring the walking boss or the dude on bike. Maybe having the walking boss in the Morka/Gorka is the way to go

Keep in mind that you might lose him on a roll of 1 if the naut goes. I wouldn't take that risk.

You are right about that. Even with CP reroll, stranger things have happened.

 Emicrania wrote:
You are right about that. Even with CP reroll, stranger things have happened.

It's just under a 3% chance if you save a CP reroll, but that means you can't use the CP on anything else in any phase the Naut is at risk.

Can you squeeze ten grots in there with him? That takes your odds from 1/36 (with a CP reroll) to 1/362 million, without a CP reroll.

Nauts have a limit of 6 so the only thing that can go in there are characters, kommandoz, burnas, nobz, manz, or gitz
Problem with manz is a squad of 3 takes the entire transport room so theyre out and regular nobz are kinda pricy to be "explode fodder"

Which having him with a squad of 5 kommandoz wouldnt be bad. Cheap and another PK hanging around.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Nauts have a limit of 6 so the only thing that can go in there are characters, kommandoz, burnas, nobz, manz, or gitz
Problem with manz is a squad of 3 takes the entire transport room so theyre out and regular nobz are kinda pricy to be "explode fodder"

Which having him with a squad of 5 kommandoz wouldnt be bad. Cheap and another PK hanging around.

Ah, gotcha. That's my bad-I still don't know my Ork dex that well.

My suggestion would be to load it up with DC Nobz. It don't got Open Topped, so your shooty units don't get to do anything, and a Gork kinda wants to be in CC, so (hopefully) it doesn't pop until it gets within charging range (especially if you drop it via Tellyporta). Loot It with the Nobz when it blows, and now you got 25-30 (if you lose someone on a 6) S5 attacks with a 3+ Save right in your opponent's grill. Bonus points if the Gork gets stuck in CC and survives to your turn, then you drop the Nobz and charge them in with it.

MANz might be good, if you weren't stuck with only putting 3 in it AND if they could benefit from Loot It.

Edit: to be fair, though, I usually leave my Gork empty.

Hello fellow Ork players,

Coming back to 40k after a looooong hiatus. I played my hay day back in 3rd and 4th edition.

Had a small Ork force back then (as well as lots of Nids / Eldar), but I decided I wanted to expand da Boyz, because I always found them quite fun.

Played a couple games already, trying to readjust to the vastly different way the game plays.

My typical opponents will be playing Eldar and Tau.

1) Are shoota boyz > slugga boyz now? Although it is EASIER in a lot of ways to get into CC now (with advancing, and abilities like Da Jump), deepstriking in means a risky charge that will fail relatively often. With Overwatch and the ability to fall back out of combat, it seems like charging is not what you *always* want to do. The difference between Shoota and Slugga boyz is really the loss of 1 attack for the ability to shoot at 18" twice. Shoota boys are also quite decent in combat (2 or 3 attacks, depending on mob size), even without the choppa.

Also is the movement bonus of Evil Suns for Shoota boyz generally better than Freebootas or Bad Moons? Seems like a guaranteed 8" move vs 6" would make a big difference (although you can't then fire twice with da boyz)

2) Dealing with heavy infantry / armour. It seems like the normal "have lots of PKs" that generally worked before won't hack it anymore. My first game was against two squads of Wraithguard, and I struggled to kill them (without going too heavily into the list, I had tankbustas as my main way of dealing with vehicles / heavy infantry).

Do you basically have to run some Mek Gunz and/or Lootas to deal with those kinds of targets?

3) All or nothing on slogging vs vehicles. Given how relatively squishy our vehicles are, do you basically have to run a lot of vehicles or none? (Other than maybe a couple Trukks if you want to take certain units). Seems like it's quite easy for say, a single battlewagon to get blown out with a single turn of shooting.

4) Is it generally better now to just shoot than get into CC? Feels like we need to leverage unit that are good at shooting OR can both handle themselves in combat and shoot as required (hence why Shoota Boyz are better than Choppa Boyz).

As a rough basis for a boilerplate army, is this ok? Trying to experiment with different army styles (although this would probably shift if I went flyer / mech heavy).

Battalion 1:
HQ
Big Mek, KFF, choppa
Warboss on Warbike (Da killa klaw, attack squig, shoota)

Troops
10 gretchin
10 Boyz
10 Boyz

Battalion 2:
Dread Waaagh

HQ
Big Mek w/ SSAG, Warlord, Big Killa Boss
Weirdboy, Da Jump

Troops
10 Gretchin
10 Gretchin
10 Gretchin

Comes out to 576 points before adding more stuff / expanding the boy mobs.

1) Shoota Boyz are better in a list that wants some ranged options. Slugga Boyz can work just fine, but you kinda gotta commit to the Green Tide CC mentality.

2) PKs can still work, but it IS a risky choice. You could run a Killa Klaw Biker Boss with Big Killa Trait, they seem to do well. The SAG and SSAG (same Trait)are also fine choices. Otherwise, Lootas and Mek Gunz are your best options. Tankbustas also work well, but sometimes have issues getting close enough. Anything with a KMB can help, but you generally don't get enough shots to make it work it.

3) Yes. If you take a "well-rounded" list with vehicles AND infantry, you give your opponent targets for every single weapon they have. Focusing on one or the other DRASTICALLY increases your survivability.

 flandarz wrote:
1) Shoota Boyz are better in a list that wants some ranged options. Slugga Boyz can work just fine, but you kinda gotta commit to the Green Tide CC mentality.

2) PKs can still work, but it IS a risky choice. You could run a Killa Klaw Biker Boss with Big Killa Trait, they seem to do well. The SAG and SSAG (same Trait)are also fine choices. Otherwise, Lootas and Mek Gunz are your best options. Tankbustas also work well, but sometimes have issues getting close enough. Anything with a KMB can help, but you generally don't get enough shots to make it work it.

3) Yes. If you take a "well-rounded" list with vehicles AND infantry, you give your opponent targets for every single weapon they have. Focusing on one or the other DRASTICALLY increases your survivability.

1) Green tide mentality was my general thought, but I got wrecked pretty hard Depending on the army, it sort of feels tough to charge, how would you generally approach getting boyz into combat beyond lots of models? And possibly against an army like Tau? (or is this the worst possible example, 5+ Overwatch nonsense).

2) Yeah, PKs didn't feel sufficient enough by any stretch of the imagination. So I'm pretty much boxed into Lootas (or mayyyybe Flash Gitz if I expect more heavy infantry than vehicles) / Mek Guns and the SSAG for vehicle / heavy infantry.

3) Figured. I'm open to trying both or just mixing it up, but I took a mixed list, and it felt pretty underpowered.

Da Jump is your friend. Along with a Warboss, so you can Advance and Charge, AND the Evil Sunz Kultur for +1 to Move, Advance, and Charge and no penalty on Assault for Advancing. Remember, once you get a single model into CC with a unit, your remaining units don't have to worry about Overwatch anymore. As for Tau, remember that FTGG eats the "helper" units' Overwatch. Charge in against one, eat the Overwatch and FTGG, then charge one of the "helpers" for a free Charge. Also remember to bring Painboyz and KFFs, to help soak some of that Overwatch too. Lastly, when terrain allows, charge from around corners, where you're out of LOS.

Long time player but tournament noob...what is the convention these days using rule in books you don't physically own? Do people now worry about this anymore?

I want to run SSAG (who wouldn't) but don't have the book.