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2019/07/29 15:10:54
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
While SSAG is being discussed, I played a game recently with SSAG + 2 SAGS.
Probability would dictate that running multiples will mitigate the variance, and in practice it definitely was the case.
I deployed my SSAG on one side of my deployment and the 2 SAG's on the other side. Basically letting the 2 regular SAG's pretend to be a SSAG. Each turn I had at least one of them do some worth while damage, I even got super lucky and triggered mortals on the SSAG and a SAG in my first round of shooting. I managed to inflict 16 mortal wounds to Morty that way.
Just thinking out loud here with some quick maths:.
With 3 SAG's there's a 25% chance for at least one of those to trigger mortal wounds on the hit per turn. CP re-roll can push this up, too tired to do the maths on that one but my gut says it won't be by a huge amount.
If you want to hurt something T8 then for each of the two SAG's you'll have ~42% chance of getting an 8 or better, and for the SSAG (assuming warlord trait) you have a ~83% chance of getting a 5 or better. So you're expecting at least one of the SAG's to wound on a 4+, and you're most likely wounding on a 4+ with the SSAG. The fact that you get to roll strength THEN pick your target makes this even better, as you can always opt to ping elites or chaff if the numbers dont work in your favour.
So to conclude my ramble, I think taking all 3 big meks with SAG's is worth while. You're paying 80 points for the SSAG which will do something most of the time, and then 160 points to ensure that at least one SAG does something most of the time, and both of them do something some of the time. If you don't want to run all 3 I think running the SSAG standalone is the other good choice. I don't want to do a full on cost benefit of taking 2 big meks but my gut says 2 is the worst choice by far.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/29 15:12:14
I don't really want to do the full math for SSAG, but in general what you are saying should be about right. If you roll more dice, the extremes become less and the average becomes more likely.
Another takeaway from my game: That mob of 40 shoota boyz with 6 rokkits in it did some pretty heavy lifting all through the game. Even if they hadn't killed Azrael by accident, they would have made their points back easily. Might do that again even in more competitive games.
Oh, and GW's squad bases are pretty cool and not too expensive.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2019/07/29 15:32:53
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Trying to build an army centred around Walkers (I consider Mega Nobz in that category).
As a basis, I've been trying to field at least 60 boyz as a core block of troops. I'm wondering, though, given Mega Nobz come with 4 shots each if I take the basic kit, that I'm spending too many points on Shoota Boyz.
Do y'all think I should drop the 2nd boy squad, or trim it to 10 and mob up? Any other general tips?
Vineheart01 wrote: Thats the SSAG for ya, its shokkingly random but its high point w/ the 2D6 shots and warlord trait is common enough to still bother using him. I just had a game where he killed almost 600pts of Sisters on his freaking own (even killed Celestine's second life in overwatch lol)
Im surprised you arent complaining about the Mork nuking itself every turn as deathskullz. Between its 3D3+1 KMB shots and DDD on those shots i almost always roll multiple 1s and thank Gork and Mork i run it bad moonz every time lol.
Sounded like a fun match. I love the ones that are pretty close that long. Too many games are decided by the end of turn2 these days.
Each time you shoot, the KMZ and KMB can each only inflict 1 MW on the Morkanaut no matter how many 1's you roll due to how the weapon abilities are worded.
2019/07/29 18:45:42
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Yes, but both the KMB and KMZ can do it and he only gets 1 reroll to hit period not per weapon
I wasnt referring to taking multiple MWs a turn, while possible thats immensely unlikely since it needs both the KMB and KMZ to roll a 1. I was referring to the rather high chances of taking a MW each turn.
I never run my mork unless its a bad moonz, and i get several rerolls with those guns resulting in 0 MWs taken, and later in the game he's hanging on by 1-2 wounds. Without those rerolls, he would have been dead. And that happens almost every game i use him.
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2019/07/29 18:54:05
Subject: Re:No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
tulun wrote: Trying to build an army centred around Walkers (I consider Mega Nobz in that category).
As a basis, I've been trying to field at least 60 boyz as a core block of troops. I'm wondering, though, given Mega Nobz come with 4 shots each if I take the basic kit, that I'm spending too many points on Shoota Boyz.
Do y'all think I should drop the 2nd boy squad, or trim it to 10 and mob up? Any other general tips?
I think you can probably drop the second mob. There's really only a few ways to run Boyz right now. You can take none. You can take 1 max unit and rely on Endless Green Tide to bring it back. You can take 30+10 for Mob Up. Or you can over-saturate the board with them.
I would drop them and bring some more Smashas, or a Dakkajet and a 10-man squad. That said, foot-slogging ain't very competitive right now, so I hope you're putting the MANz and Dreadz into a Tellyporta. If you're planning to Da Jump the MANz, I'd drop the Boyz altogether.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Side note: you have a varied army, which kind of weakens it, unless you're putting something into a Tellyporta and waiting until the threats to it have been dealt with. For example, if you try to walk the Dreadz, Boyz, Bikers, and MANz up the board, you've given every single gun your opponent has an optimal target to fire on.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/29 18:56:17
2019/07/29 19:52:17
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Vineheart01 wrote: Yes, but both the KMB and KMZ can do it and he only gets 1 reroll to hit period not per weapon
I wasnt referring to taking multiple MWs a turn, while possible thats immensely unlikely since it needs both the KMB and KMZ to roll a 1. I was referring to the rather high chances of taking a MW each turn.
I never run my mork unless its a bad moonz, and i get several rerolls with those guns resulting in 0 MWs taken, and later in the game he's hanging on by 1-2 wounds. Without those rerolls, he would have been dead. And that happens almost every game i use him.
Ah, I see. Just thought I'd say in case you've been unintentionally nerfing yourself.
2019/07/29 19:58:13
Subject: Re:No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
For my next tourney I am thinking of finally painting up that Killtank with a giggashoota and giving it a go. I will run it as Freebootaz. So, anybody got any experience with it, is it any good?
flandarz wrote: Trying to build an army centred around Walkers (I consider Mega Nobz in that category).
I think you can probably drop the second mob. There's really only a few ways to run Boyz right now. You can take none. You can take 1 max unit and rely on Endless Green Tide to bring it back. You can take 30+10 for Mob Up. Or you can over-saturate the board with them.
I would drop them and bring some more Smashas, or a Dakkajet and a 10-man squad. That said, foot-slogging ain't very competitive right now, so I hope you're putting the MANz and Dreadz into a Tellyporta. If you're planning to Da Jump the MANz, I'd drop the Boyz altogether.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Side note: you have a varied army, which kind of weakens it, unless you're putting something into a Tellyporta and waiting until the threats to it have been dealt with. For example, if you try to walk the Dreadz, Boyz, Bikers, and MANz up the board, you've given every single gun your opponent has an optimal target to fire on.
Yeah I was thinking that.
So, you would suggest I tellyporta both Dreads ( I can combine them so it's 2 CP ), and the MANz, so at least they can position themselves to attack / shoot before the enemy can kill them. Wouldn't this leave my 30 boyz pretty vulnerable? I'm not sure I could guarantee popping all the threats. I could add another Mek Gun, but my Shooty Deff Dread was supposed to help with this as well.
Might be worthwhile to add a 3rd one for target saturation? if I tellyporta the MANz, I can drop the 2nd Gretchin. I think I could straight up add a Dakkajet and another Deff Dread.
2019/07/30 03:03:56
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Quackzo wrote: While SSAG is being discussed, I played a game recently with SSAG + 2 SAGS.
Probability would dictate that running multiples will mitigate the variance, and in practice it definitely was the case.
I deployed my SSAG on one side of my deployment and the 2 SAG's on the other side. Basically letting the 2 regular SAG's pretend to be a SSAG. Each turn I had at least one of them do some worth while damage, I even got super lucky and triggered mortals on the SSAG and a SAG in my first round of shooting. I managed to inflict 16 mortal wounds to Morty that way.
Just thinking out loud here with some quick maths:.
With 3 SAG's there's a 25% chance for at least one of those to trigger mortal wounds on the hit per turn. CP re-roll can push this up, too tired to do the maths on that one but my gut says it won't be by a huge amount.
If you want to hurt something T8 then for each of the two SAG's you'll have ~42% chance of getting an 8 or better, and for the SSAG (assuming warlord trait) you have a ~83% chance of getting a 5 or better. So you're expecting at least one of the SAG's to wound on a 4+, and you're most likely wounding on a 4+ with the SSAG. The fact that you get to roll strength THEN pick your target makes this even better, as you can always opt to ping elites or chaff if the numbers dont work in your favour.
So to conclude my ramble, I think taking all 3 big meks with SAG's is worth while. You're paying 80 points for the SSAG which will do something most of the time, and then 160 points to ensure that at least one SAG does something most of the time, and both of them do something some of the time. If you don't want to run all 3 I think running the SSAG standalone is the other good choice. I don't want to do a full on cost benefit of taking 2 big meks but my gut says 2 is the worst choice by far.
Issue is you might be rolling high S with your SAG but then roll low shots. Getting high S is nice but only if you actually score a hits. Even with 2d6 shots you don't score that much damage. Nor can all have +1 to wound.
With regular SAG you have to hope getting 4+ shots AND decent S and then actually hit. With SSAG and +1 to wound you don't get screwed as easily.
(and I'm betting on GW changing that target pick order on next faq update)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Vineheart01 wrote: Yes, but both the KMB and KMZ can do it and he only gets 1 reroll to hit period not per weapon
I wasnt referring to taking multiple MWs a turn, while possible thats immensely unlikely since it needs both the KMB and KMZ to roll a 1. I was referring to the rather high chances of taking a MW each turn.
I never run my mork unless its a bad moonz, and i get several rerolls with those guns resulting in 0 MWs taken, and later in the game he's hanging on by 1-2 wounds. Without those rerolls, he would have been dead. And that happens almost every game i use him.
Seeing 'nauts die in 1 or 2 rounds of fire anyway taking MW's multiple turns is not much of a worry. Often enough doesn't even change the game.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/30 07:18:05
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2019/07/30 07:27:26
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Vineheart01 wrote: Yes, but both the KMB and KMZ can do it and he only gets 1 reroll to hit period not per weapon
I wasnt referring to taking multiple MWs a turn, while possible thats immensely unlikely since it needs both the KMB and KMZ to roll a 1. I was referring to the rather high chances of taking a MW each turn.
I never run my mork unless its a bad moonz, and i get several rerolls with those guns resulting in 0 MWs taken, and later in the game he's hanging on by 1-2 wounds. Without those rerolls, he would have been dead. And that happens almost every game i use him.
With deff skulls you can just shoot the KMB first to dodge the second mortal wound, then the zzappa. That said, I don't believe the naut will be surviving the game if the enemy has more range than primaris marines - they are pretty much locked to the 15-30" range (dark angels even more so). IG or eldar would have probably blown it off the board in a single turn, no matter how many mortal wounds it does to itself. Heck, I regularly lose Mortarion before he moves, I have no illusions of the Morkanaut having more staying power than that.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
tulun wrote: Trying to build an army centred around Walkers (I consider Mega Nobz in that category).
As a basis, I've been trying to field at least 60 boyz as a core block of troops. I'm wondering, though, given Mega Nobz come with 4 shots each if I take the basic kit, that I'm spending too many points on Shoota Boyz.
Do y'all think I should drop the 2nd boy squad, or trim it to 10 and mob up? Any other general tips?
I've been playing orks a lot more again recently and have come to the conclusion that boyz aren't actually a major source of damage anymore. They are distraction units, exploit weak flanks and capture/deny objectives or take out screens. So I'd advise taking those two units to tellyport or jump them to draw fire from your MANz and dreads, tie up dangerous units or just score VP in some way.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/30 07:46:48
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2019/07/30 14:04:14
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
tulun wrote: Is there a reason that more people don't take the KMB on their Big Mek? (Or even Meks w/ KMB).
Seems like a great investment. KFF, KMB Big Mek is 84 points now, but combined w/ Deathskullz, can turn go from just providing saves to killing tanks.
Seems to be pretty rare, though. Is it not worth the points?
I've just started using it. I try and make sure every unit has two uses even if one of them is to gain CP. Grots fill out a detachement AND provide grot shield for Gitz, deffkoptas can get Recon AND if blown up give +1 to Gitz, KFF Mek provides a save AND can shoot tanks etc. Its why I begrudge taking commisars in my imperium list. They're there just to fulfill brigade requirements.
2019/07/30 14:16:31
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
I wouldn't touch them with a ten foot stikk if I wasn't running deff skulls though. The tripple re-roll is what makes them great, KMB themselves are rather poor weapons for 9 points.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2019/07/30 15:09:57
Subject: Re:No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
I've used a cheap Deathskulls Vanguard detachment to bolster my trukk Boyz for some additional punch.
177pts
Big Mek KFF KMB
3x Mek KMB
It's like having a re-rollable KMB Mek gun sitting in a truck, but for the price of a smasha gun. Handy for the more mobile list I run every now and then.
"All their ferocity was turned outwards, against enemies of the State, foreigners, traitors, saboteurs, thought-criminals" - Orwell, 1984
2019/07/30 15:44:38
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
I've just started using it. I try and make sure every unit has two uses even if one of them is to gain CP. Grots fill out a detachement AND provide grot shield for Gitz, deffkoptas can get Recon AND if blown up give +1 to Gitz, KFF Mek provides a save AND can shoot tanks etc. Its why I begrudge taking commisars in my imperium list. They're there just to fulfill brigade requirements.
I dig, great idea. So you have your Deffkopta glued to your Gitz, unless you need it to take an objective? Give them a KMB as well and it can even pop a tank on top of it.
I totally agree with KMB and Deathskullz. It goes from okay (on certain models, I'd probably still take a KMB Deffkopta over the big shoota or rokkit version on any kultur), to being *crazy* good. It's so consistent. With the reroll, its better than BS4, it wounds over 75% of the time, and you can re-roll damage, meaning getting at least a 3 is pretty likely.
DS Meks seem like a decent slot with them. Give them an oiler, and they can hopefully keep a Dread or Mork/Gork around another round, while still laying down a plasma shot every turn.
2019/07/30 16:32:45
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Has anyone else run triple Mork/gorks? I only added the 3rd once i play 2k games but ive found It's too much armor to delete them all across the game. I play people who aren't netlisters but they always play competitively. and depending on what list i play determines which one they aim at first. Gork if they have hordes, morks get shot at if there is armor.
2019/07/30 16:40:49
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
mhalko1 wrote: Has anyone else run triple Mork/gorks? I only added the 3rd once i play 2k games but ive found It's too much armor to delete them all across the game. I play people who aren't netlisters but they always play competitively. and depending on what list i play determines which one they aim at first. Gork if they have hordes, morks get shot at if there is armor.
I’ve run triple Nauts twice this edition and had all three destroyed in both games. They’re certainly not bad but three is definitely killable. Will for sure be doing it again though, lots of fun.
2019/07/30 21:22:40
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Just made a chaos player rage quit turn 1 by going first and da jumping an evil suns warboss with killa klaw and buffed with fist of gork, and chargin from behind a wall into his defiler, killing it and some marines and then using the fight again strat to pile into his daemon prince and kill it and some more marines. He thought he had put them far enough apart at 6”.
2019/07/30 23:25:47
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
CaptainO wrote: Just made a chaos player rage quit turn 1 by going first and da jumping an evil suns warboss with killa klaw and buffed with fist of gork, and chargin from behind a wall into his defiler, killing it and some marines and then using the fight again strat to pile into his daemon prince and kill it and some more marines. He thought he had put them far enough apart at 6”.
You charged the Prince, right?
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
2019/07/31 07:13:34
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
operkoi wrote: Has anyone got feedback on the blitz brigade vigilus detachment. seems fun and good for a mad rush of boyz if run as blood axes or sunz
I tried playing it a couple of times, but bottom line is it's not worth it. You invest a lot of CP to give minor buffs to mediocre units.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2019/07/31 07:55:02
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
CaptainO wrote: Just made a chaos player rage quit turn 1 by going first and da jumping an evil suns warboss with killa klaw and buffed with fist of gork, and chargin from behind a wall into his defiler, killing it and some marines and then using the fight again strat to pile into his daemon prince and kill it and some more marines. He thought he had put them far enough apart at 6”.
Would you mind walking through the assault phase to do this? I imagine you pile in + consolidate twice?
2019/07/31 08:15:23
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
CaptainO wrote: Just made a chaos player rage quit turn 1 by going first and da jumping an evil suns warboss with killa klaw and buffed with fist of gork, and chargin from behind a wall into his defiler, killing it and some marines and then using the fight again strat to pile into his daemon prince and kill it and some more marines. He thought he had put them far enough apart at 6”.
You charged the Prince, right?
No he had partially screened the prince by putting him behind 5 marines (5 marines are not a good screen) so I charged the defiler to its right (although I did declare everything within 12" of the boss; he was behind a wall so couldn't be seen anyway) I killed the defiler first, consolidated 3" towards the daemon prince and marines (being careful not to base myself within anything) then piled in another 3" when I fought a second time with him ending closer to marines and within 1" of the prince. That strat is honestly my favourite these days. Either combining it with a warboss that has 6 x S16 killa klaw attacks or 40 boyz with 5 attacks.
CaptainO wrote: Just made a chaos player rage quit turn 1 by going first and da jumping an evil suns warboss with killa klaw and buffed with fist of gork, and chargin from behind a wall into his defiler, killing it and some marines and then using the fight again strat to pile into his daemon prince and kill it and some more marines. He thought he had put them far enough apart at 6”.
Would you mind walking through the assault phase to do this? I imagine you pile in + consolidate twice?
I charged and piled in as normal (9" and 3") killed the defiler, then consolidated towards the prince (another 3"). He moved marines within 1" of me to try and attack me but couldn't base to base me. When I used the fight again strat I was once again able to pile in which allowed me to "swing around" the closest marine. I finished closer to the marine (going from 0.999" to 0.5") but now was within 1" of his prince allowing me to attack (and kill) him.
The best way to understand is to check out these guys on youtube (D6evolution). Their videos explain it way better than I could.
They were aiming at the "declare everything within 12" part. If the daemon prince wouldn't have been within 12" you can't attack it, no matter how often you fight.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2019/07/31 12:09:48
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
The last example of the second video, the pile in one, always confuses me. How does he get to charge the obliterators with the Smashcap if he starts with no enemy within 1"? does he charge everything beforehand?
2019/07/31 16:32:59
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Hi all. Tossing up whether to use Zhadsnark or a warboss on bike with Da Killa Klaw. My main use for him is to support Stormboyz with their advance up the battle field then start smashing as many units as possible before it dies. I see massive benefits for both but can’t decide which to take. Who’s best?
2019/07/31 16:36:18
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Emicrania wrote: The last example of the second video, the pile in one, always confuses me. How does he get to charge the obliterators with the Smashcap if he starts with no enemy within 1"? does he charge everything beforehand?
He doesn't want to fight them, he just wants to get them into combat so they cannot shoot. He assumes that the smash captain charged another unit that's gone now.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang. 
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
