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2019/08/02 17:34:38
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Can't speak to the squigbuggy but the Snazzwagon is questionable at 70pts much less 100. Just look at a dakka jet and wonder why you would ever take one.
buddha wrote: Can't speak to the squigbuggy but the Snazzwagon is questionable at 70pts much less 100. Just look at a dakka jet and wonder why you would ever take one.
All of the buggies are about 25-33% over priced. I bring my 3 Scrapjets to every game I can (except competitive games) and they have yet to fail me....by being successful or earning their points back. Every single game they either flop spectacularly in their shooting or they get blasted off the table turn 1 because my opponent gets scared of their "missiles" which tend to "Miss" more then anything. In fact, I think only 1 of them has ever earned his points back and that was because he got into CC with some expensive terminator elites and rolled a 5 for Mortal wounds on the charge which killed 2 (3 MW's total 1 terminator was already injured) and then he swung first and killed another 2 by some miracle. after that all 3 were murdered in short order.
Pretty much everything in the FA slot for Orkz is over priced, including stormboyz. Granted, the Stormboyz are on the cusp of being appropriately priced. Give them a 5+ save stock instead of the 6+ and I would call it good enough.
Not just Fast Attack is overpriced. Pretty much everything we got, aside from a few things like Mek Gunz and Weirdboyz, needs a price drop. Just look at Flash Gitz; they're worse than a SM with Heavy Bolter in pretty much every way, but they cost 2 points more. Hell, I'm still trying to figure out why GW thought Boyz were too cheap at 6ppm.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/03 12:21:45
2019/08/03 16:22:03
Subject: Re:No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
How much anti-armour would I need to take down a list like this? Just had a 1500 point game (went into it blind, no idea what the guy played).
It was a Space Wolves list that compromised of 3 Dreadnaughts, a LR (he normally would take another Terminator squad here), 2 Wolf Priest guys in Terminator Armour, and 8 Terminators w/ Lightning Claws, and another named character with a throwable Thunder Hammer.
I didn't think the list was particularly OP (we played a janky mission where I was deployed in the middle trying to hold an objective counter, and I mostly lost due to my own mistakes), but I was just curious how much anti-tank I'd have to field to take down a list like this.
Seems like you'd just have to shoot it down, as his units were insanely consistent in CC. He basically held his CP for certain buffs, taking a fight action after one of my charged units did, etc.
Included in my list:
2 Mek guns w/ Smasha
Big Mek w/ KMB
2 Deff Dreads (3 KMB between the lot of them)
8 MANz Deffkopta w/ 2 Rokkits (I'd take this as KMB, but I was using it as WYSIWIG at the time)
Big Mek w/ SSAG.
Basically, more Mek Gunz and/or Flash Gitz or Lootas.
Few games I've played, seems like facing a bunch of heavy armour / vehicle spam is rough unless you just go full ham into countering it (or get lucky w/ SSAG).
2019/08/03 18:02:22
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
The big thing to remember is that you don't HAVE to wipe your opponent to win. Throw some chaff at those big guys and let them spend turns trying to get out of a sea of Grots, while you grab Objectives and VP in other ways.
If you HAVE to destroy them, the SSAG works well. Smashas too. 2 of them is definitely not enough. Smashas only work when spammed. Deff Dreadz with KMB only work well as Death Skullz, and you'll still want them in a Tellyporta. Same for your KMB Mek. Lastly, consider grabbing some Tankbustas. Bring them as Bad Moonz and you got a group of anti-armor people who reroll misses AND can shoot twice. If you Da Jump them in, or put them in a Tellyporta, they should evaporate anything you point them at.
2019/08/04 13:45:27
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Just came back with a 1st placement from a 20 man RTT Yesterday.
Man I'm loving my orks!
I guess nobody ever expect an Ork player with less than 30 orks and less and 100 total models count. They have no idea what is going on.
Spoiler:
Fast recap:
1 match vs Aeldari
Poor guy finished last at the tournament. Had a fluffy list with a wraithknight, some wraithblades and a couple of prism. Some bikes and a farseer.
He started but to no avail. He picked wrong secondary and couldn't make a dent.
It ended T3 , i Lost 2 grots and got some wounded gunz and morkanaut in the process. He killed almost an Ork unit but I had to green tide in order to recon.
38-2
Match 2 vs Catchan
This match was the hardest, the dude was super friendly but one of the best player I have ever met in my life. He did things during the match that really humbled me. Great match.
He had a pure Catchan list with the angry dude, some priest a zillion carachter, some guards, 3 company commanders, 1 wywern, some mortars, a baneblade and a shadowblade (?)
Something like 90 T8 Wounds...
I knew I was in for a ride. I deployed everything just in order to get some target saturation and board controll. I bought an extra relic klaw and Fist of Gork. We had quarters as deployment and he got to deploy first CA 2018 style.
We had the itc mission where you get bonus if you hold the obj your opponent defend.
I seized and the rest was history.
This match was won by:
SOUPED UP SHOCKA ATTACK GUN!!!
the dude went nuts, T1 I rolled 10 shots S 11 and hits 9(!!!) Times! Oneshot a baneblade! Then proceed to scrap another 6 W out the shadowblade. I maxed Titanic in a Turn.
He respond by blocking my jumped orks, take away a morkanaut, some grots and a gun
T2
He does it again! 12 shots S10! Boom the shadowblade! I proceed to try to charge the backline thru a really terrain backdoor , but the guy knows hus stuff and slow me with one captain in a small space and blow the Gorkanaut to bits.
T3
The dude just can't get enough and blow up a tank commander and finish off another one. I finally charge the back line and wrap everything . I got bonus and shoot the rest.
My opponent is very smart and tripoint me a lonely Ork with 4(!) Lonely caracthers. I get bonus obj, but I'm forced to shoot the wyvern.
T4 to T6
I hold and maxed all the secondary. I try to wipe him but my man is a great played and still manage to outsmart me and get some points.
30-21
Match 3 vs Nids.
Boy I love this Matchup, I lost SO MANY TIMES playng my nids army that I know all the tricks and mirrors .
He came with an atypical Kronos-Kraken build bc he had triple exocrine and less atypical 6 guard impaler. Malantrhope, devilgaunts and t-gaunts. 13 genestealer and swarmy+ a flyrant with +1W vs "grudged" enemies and some other shenanigans.
I deployed P E R F E C T L Y everything out of range and did something I never did. I DS both gorkanaut and morkanaut.
We got the diagonal deployment and the itc mission where you get bonus for having 3 characters near obj.
He deployed first.
Guess what ? I seized again! Crazy!
But honestly, my opponent first told me that was almost better so he could survive to T5, otherwise I would had annihilate him before.
I just played one of the best match I ever had. I got all my priority straight and played the mission and denyed him engineer and BGH and everything else I could.
I baited and sacrificef what was necessary, kept board controll and pushed hard with the planes and the Nauts.
He was a very nice opponent and the TO. Definitely going back for the tournament.
37-13
All in all. Guys, read the guide in the start of the post, watch some battle reports, find a playstyle that suits you, copy a good list and than adjust it to your personality and favourite units .
But most than everything, PLAY THE GODDAMN MISSION!!!
I went with my playgroup and it is so obvious see from outside why we loose most of the time, we get stubborn to use obsolete models and units and we don't play the mission. I did and do still the same mistake all the time. I now play a list that is incredibly funny to play, with models I spent time to paint and I enjoy a lot playing both because it is fun, both because I win often than most. 40k is like any other skill, you nee to train in order to get better.
Oh, and also a bit of luck once in a while
Also
Never
NEVER
Change list
NEVER.
You will never get better untill you played the same list at least 30 times and you know all the ins and out.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/04 13:46:37
2019/08/05 03:21:19
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Eonfuzz wrote: How do we feel about Chainsaw Primaris having as many attacks as an ork nob, better saves and ballistic score for basically the same price?
That's too bad. Well, at least the nob looks way better!
---
I am currently building my next 2K GT list. Thinking of including a Giga-shoota Killtank. When Mathhammering it he is a now go, even as Freebooters. He hits his 21 shots (average) on a 3+ for 10 death GEQ or 4.5 MEQ. Not awesome at all. But is there a place for this fantastic model in a competetive list?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/05 06:30:02
Eonfuzz wrote: How do we feel about Chainsaw Primaris having as many attacks as an ork nob, better saves and ballistic score for basically the same price?
They still don't get big choppas or PKs (or any special close combat weapons at all) and they have less strength. I doubt that hey see much play, even with the additional attack.
What I'm more worried about is the rank and file primaris, intercessors and infiltrators. Right now a unit of boyz barely manages to break even when charging a unit of 10, with the extra attack you might lose a many as 5-7 boyz when the strike back, where you would have lost 2-4 before. This goes a long why when trying to chew through primaris hordes.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2019/08/05 07:56:04
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
I've been working on a similar list (trialling it at my escalation league) but with triple SAG and grots instead of boyz and warboss.
Silly question but do you have any advice for triggering the freeboota trait? Do you have a firing order you consistently go by? The mek gunz don't always trigger it for me and then after I'm not sure what order to do the shooting at.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/05 08:19:51
Quackzo wrote: I've been working on a similar list (trialling it at my escalation league) but with triple SAG and grots instead of boyz and warboss.
Silly question but do you have any advice for triggering the freeboota trait? Do you have a firing order you consistently go by? The mek gunz don't always trigger it for me and then after I'm not sure what order to do the shooting at.[/quote
I was thinking to play triple SAG myself with 100 grots 10 flashgitz badrukk and 15 badmoons tankabusta.
I usually use the dakkajets or the shoota boyz to trigger it . You can survive one turn without triggering it, otherwise you are playing without kultur basically, which is just worst than playing Blood Axes atm (Sorry Jid
2019/08/05 09:08:46
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
flandarz wrote: Not just Fast Attack is overpriced. Pretty much everything we got, aside from a few things like Mek Gunz and Weirdboyz, needs a price drop. Just look at Flash Gitz; they're worse than a SM with Heavy Bolter in pretty much every way, but they cost 2 points more. Hell, I'm still trying to figure out why GW thought Boyz were too cheap at 6ppm.
If used correctly deffkoptas and stormboyz are incredibly point efficient. As for Flashgitz, the fact they’re a contender for heavy slots in numerous competitive lists really shows that they are appropriately priced. Bear in mind a gitz gun is straight up better than a heavy bolter, the guy himself has the characteristics of a primaris rather than a bog standard marine and the unit can take advantage of ork psychic spells, mob rule, ere we go as well as grot shield and more dakka. The comparison to a heavy bolter marine leaves the marine blushing.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Emicrania wrote: Just came back with a 1st placement from a 20 man RTT Yesterday.
Man I'm loving my orks!
I guess nobody ever expect an Ork player with less than 30 orks and less and 100 total models count. They have no idea what is going on.
Spoiler:
Fast recap:
1 match vs Aeldari
Poor guy finished last at the tournament. Had a fluffy list with a wraithknight, some wraithblades and a couple of prism. Some bikes and a farseer.
He started but to no avail. He picked wrong secondary and couldn't make a dent.
It ended T3 , i Lost 2 grots and got some wounded gunz and morkanaut in the process. He killed almost an Ork unit but I had to green tide in order to recon.
38-2
Match 2 vs Catchan
This match was the hardest, the dude was super friendly but one of the best player I have ever met in my life. He did things during the match that really humbled me. Great match.
He had a pure Catchan list with the angry dude, some priest a zillion carachter, some guards, 3 company commanders, 1 wywern, some mortars, a baneblade and a shadowblade (?)
Something like 90 T8 Wounds...
I knew I was in for a ride. I deployed everything just in order to get some target saturation and board controll. I bought an extra relic klaw and Fist of Gork. We had quarters as deployment and he got to deploy first CA 2018 style.
We had the itc mission where you get bonus if you hold the obj your opponent defend.
I seized and the rest was history.
This match was won by:
SOUPED UP SHOCKA ATTACK GUN!!!
the dude went nuts, T1 I rolled 10 shots S 11 and hits 9(!!!) Times! Oneshot a baneblade! Then proceed to scrap another 6 W out the shadowblade. I maxed Titanic in a Turn.
He respond by blocking my jumped orks, take away a morkanaut, some grots and a gun
T2
He does it again! 12 shots S10! Boom the shadowblade! I proceed to try to charge the backline thru a really terrain backdoor , but the guy knows hus stuff and slow me with one captain in a small space and blow the Gorkanaut to bits.
T3
The dude just can't get enough and blow up a tank commander and finish off another one. I finally charge the back line and wrap everything . I got bonus and shoot the rest.
My opponent is very smart and tripoint me a lonely Ork with 4(!) Lonely caracthers. I get bonus obj, but I'm forced to shoot the wyvern.
T4 to T6
I hold and maxed all the secondary. I try to wipe him but my man is a great played and still manage to outsmart me and get some points.
30-21
Match 3 vs Nids.
Boy I love this Matchup, I lost SO MANY TIMES playng my nids army that I know all the tricks and mirrors .
He came with an atypical Kronos-Kraken build bc he had triple exocrine and less atypical 6 guard impaler. Malantrhope, devilgaunts and t-gaunts. 13 genestealer and swarmy+ a flyrant with +1W vs "grudged" enemies and some other shenanigans.
I deployed P E R F E C T L Y everything out of range and did something I never did. I DS both gorkanaut and morkanaut.
We got the diagonal deployment and the itc mission where you get bonus for having 3 characters near obj.
He deployed first.
Guess what ? I seized again! Crazy!
But honestly, my opponent first told me that was almost better so he could survive to T5, otherwise I would had annihilate him before.
I just played one of the best match I ever had. I got all my priority straight and played the mission and denyed him engineer and BGH and everything else I could.
I baited and sacrificef what was necessary, kept board controll and pushed hard with the planes and the Nauts.
He was a very nice opponent and the TO. Definitely going back for the tournament.
37-13
All in all. Guys, read the guide in the start of the post, watch some battle reports, find a playstyle that suits you, copy a good list and than adjust it to your personality and favourite units .
But most than everything, PLAY THE GODDAMN MISSION!!!
I went with my playgroup and it is so obvious see from outside why we loose most of the time, we get stubborn to use obsolete models and units and we don't play the mission. I did and do still the same mistake all the time. I now play a list that is incredibly funny to play, with models I spent time to paint and I enjoy a lot playing both because it is fun, both because I win often than most. 40k is like any other skill, you nee to train in order to get better.
Oh, and also a bit of luck once in a while
Also
Never
NEVER
Change list
NEVER.
You will never get better untill you played the same list at least 30 times and you know all the ins and out.
Congrats dude. What kind of funky things was the guard player doing in your second game? Forewarned us forearmed. You're 100% right about list changing. Unfortunately battlescribe makes list tweaking borderline irresistible.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Eonfuzz wrote: How do we feel about Chainsaw Primaris having as many attacks as an ork nob, better saves and ballistic score for basically the same price?
To quote Joe Rogan "comparison is the thief of joy"
If it encourages a marine player to move closer to my orks then I see it as a benefit. They don't get their +1 attack after being charged if they're already dead.... (unless they have that banner thing of course)
Also a nob is S5, can be given spells to increase attacks, gets +1 if with 20+ boyz and has ere we go, mob rule and can move faster if an evil sun.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/08/05 10:52:41
2019/08/05 11:31:15
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
flandarz wrote: Not just Fast Attack is overpriced. Pretty much everything we got, aside from a few things like Mek Gunz and Weirdboyz, needs a price drop. Just look at Flash Gitz; they're worse than a SM with Heavy Bolter in pretty much every way, but they cost 2 points more. Hell, I'm still trying to figure out why GW thought Boyz were too cheap at 6ppm.
If used correctly deffkoptas and stormboyz are incredibly point efficient. As for Flashgitz, the fact they’re a contender for heavy slots in numerous competitive lists really shows that they are appropriately priced. Bear in mind a gitz gun is straight up better than a heavy bolter, the guy himself has the characteristics of a primaris rather than a bog standard marine and the unit can take advantage of ork psychic spells, mob rule, ere we go as well as grot shield and more dakka. The comparison to a heavy bolter marine leaves the marine blushing.
Storm boyz are staples for any green tide army, their main weakness is being boyz, which simply don't do enough heavy lifting on their own.
Koptas aren't that great on their own, they pretty much only see play to max out brigades, since they are cheap and not completely useless when taken as minimum investment.
As for flash gits... stop comparing them to a model with a completely different weapon in a completely different codex that's not even considered to be great?
They could use a little push to make them decent, but I don't think they are more than two or three points off the mark.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2019/08/05 12:06:32
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
flandarz wrote: Not just Fast Attack is overpriced. Pretty much everything we got, aside from a few things like Mek Gunz and Weirdboyz, needs a price drop. Just look at Flash Gitz; they're worse than a SM with Heavy Bolter in pretty much every way, but they cost 2 points more. Hell, I'm still trying to figure out why GW thought Boyz were too cheap at 6ppm.
If used correctly deffkoptas and stormboyz are incredibly point efficient. As for Flashgitz, the fact they’re a contender for heavy slots in numerous competitive lists really shows that they are appropriately priced. Bear in mind a gitz gun is straight up better than a heavy bolter, the guy himself has the characteristics of a primaris rather than a bog standard marine and the unit can take advantage of ork psychic spells, mob rule, ere we go as well as grot shield and more dakka. The comparison to a heavy bolter marine leaves the marine blushing.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Emicrania wrote: Just came back with a 1st placement from a 20 man RTT Yesterday.
Man I'm loving my orks!
I guess nobody ever expect an Ork player with less than 30 orks and less and 100 total models count. They have no idea what is going on.
[spoiler]
Fast recap:
1 match vs Aeldari
Poor guy finished last at the tournament. Had a fluffy list with a wraithknight, some wraithblades and a couple of prism. Some bikes and a farseer.
He started but to no avail. He picked wrong secondary and couldn't make a dent.
It ended T3 , i Lost 2 grots and got some wounded gunz and morkanaut in the process. He killed almost an Ork unit but I had to green tide in order to recon.
38-2
Match 2 vs Catchan
This match was the hardest, the dude was super friendly but one of the best player I have ever met in my life. He did things during the match that really humbled me. Great match.
He had a pure Catchan list with the angry dude, some priest a zillion carachter, some guards, 3 company commanders, 1 wywern, some mortars, a baneblade and a shadowblade (?)
Something like 90 T8 Wounds...
I knew I was in for a ride. I deployed everything just in order to get some target saturation and board controll. I bought an extra relic klaw and Fist of Gork. We had quarters as deployment and he got to deploy first CA 2018 style.
We had the itc mission where you get bonus if you hold the obj your opponent defend.
I seized and the rest was history.
This match was won by:
SOUPED UP SHOCKA ATTACK GUN!!!
the dude went nuts, T1 I rolled 10 shots S 11 and hits 9(!!!) Times! Oneshot a baneblade! Then proceed to scrap another 6 W out the shadowblade. I maxed Titanic in a Turn.
He respond by blocking my jumped orks, take away a morkanaut, some grots and a gun
T2
He does it again! 12 shots S10! Boom the shadowblade! I proceed to try to charge the backline thru a really terrain backdoor , but the guy knows hus stuff and slow me with one captain in a small space and blow the Gorkanaut to bits.
T3
The dude just can't get enough and blow up a tank commander and finish off another one. I finally charge the back line and wrap everything . I got bonus and shoot the rest.
My opponent is very smart and tripoint me a lonely Ork with 4(!) Lonely caracthers. I get bonus obj, but I'm forced to shoot the wyvern.
T4 to T6
I hold and maxed all the secondary. I try to wipe him but my man is a great played and still manage to outsmart me and get some points.
30-21
Match 3 vs Nids.
Boy I love this Matchup, I lost SO MANY TIMES playng my nids army that I know all the tricks and mirrors .
He came with an atypical Kronos-Kraken build bc he had triple exocrine and less atypical 6 guard impaler. Malantrhope, devilgaunts and t-gaunts. 13 genestealer and swarmy+ a flyrant with +1W vs "grudged" enemies and some other shenanigans.
I deployed P E R F E C T L Y everything out of range and did something I never did. I DS both gorkanaut and morkanaut.
We got the diagonal deployment and the itc mission where you get bonus for having 3 characters near obj.
He deployed first.
Guess what ? I seized again! Crazy!
But honestly, my opponent first told me that was almost better so he could survive to T5, otherwise I would had annihilate him before.
I just played one of the best match I ever had. I got all my priority straight and played the mission and denyed him engineer and BGH and everything else I could.
I baited and sacrificef what was necessary, kept board controll and pushed hard with the planes and the Nauts.
He was a very nice opponent and the TO. Definitely going back for the tournament.
37-13
All in all. Guys, read the guide in the start of the post, watch some battle reports, find a playstyle that suits you, copy a good list and than adjust it to your personality and favourite units .
But most than everything, PLAY THE GODDAMN MISSION!!!
I went with my playgroup and it is so obvious see from outside why we loose most of the time, we get stubborn to use obsolete models and units and we don't play the mission. I did and do still the same mistake all the time. I now play a list that is incredibly funny to play, with models I spent time to paint and I enjoy a lot playing both because it is fun, both because I win often than most. 40k is like any other skill, you nee to train in order to get better.
Oh, and also a bit of luck once in a while
Also
Never
NEVER
Change list
NEVER.
You will never get better untill you played the same list at least 30 times and you know all the ins and out.
Congrats dude. What kind of funky things was the guard player doing in your second game? Forewarned us forearmed. You're 100% right about list changing. Unfortunately battlescribe makes list tweaking borderline irresistible.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Eonfuzz wrote: How do we feel about Chainsaw Primaris having as many attacks as an ork nob, better saves and ballistic score for basically the same price?
To quote Joe Rogan "comparison is the thief of joy"
If it encourages a marine player to move closer to my orks then I see it as a benefit. They don't get their +1 attack after being charged if they're already dead.... (unless they have that banner thing of course)
Also a nob is S5, can be given spells to increase attacks, gets +1 if with 20+ boyz and has ere we go, mob rule and can move faster if an evil sun.
[/spoiler]
The dude was just plain OG good player, move blocking with 2 guardsman 30 orks, switching characters in order to tank MW, using smoke to give -1 to hit to tanks when out in the open, perfect target priority, playing for the mission and collecting poitns all game. All in all just a great player.
Problem is ATM that without real good LOS block, the match is basically decided by who get 1st turn. Denying hold more and trying to kill more is just not enough to play consistently in competitive ITC.
I mean a dude came with
Castellan
Shooting knight
2 warglaive
2 skorpions
Loyal 32
Ad Priest
How the hell you gonna have an edge vs that list if you start second?
2019/08/05 13:20:23
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
flandarz wrote: Not just Fast Attack is overpriced. Pretty much everything we got, aside from a few things like Mek Gunz and Weirdboyz, needs a price drop. Just look at Flash Gitz; they're worse than a SM with Heavy Bolter in pretty much every way, but they cost 2 points more. Hell, I'm still trying to figure out why GW thought Boyz were too cheap at 6ppm.
If used correctly deffkoptas and stormboyz are incredibly point efficient. As for Flashgitz, the fact they’re a contender for heavy slots in numerous competitive lists really shows that they are appropriately priced. Bear in mind a gitz gun is straight up better than a heavy bolter, the guy himself has the characteristics of a primaris rather than a bog standard marine and the unit can take advantage of ork psychic spells, mob rule, ere we go as well as grot shield and more dakka. The comparison to a heavy bolter marine leaves the marine blushing.
Storm boyz are staples for any green tide army, their main weakness is being boyz, which simply don't do enough heavy lifting on their own.
Koptas aren't that great on their own, they pretty much only see play to max out brigades, since they are cheap and not completely useless when taken as minimum investment.
As for flash gits... stop comparing them to a model with a completely different weapon in a completely different codex that's not even considered to be great?
They could use a little push to make them decent, but I don't think they are more than two or three points off the mark.
Ya I think we're in agreement reference comparing units. Theres so much additional buffing that can go on within an army that its impossible. I was merely showing that flashgitz have a lot going for them in order to justify their points cost. I've changed from lootas to gitz and am getting great mileage from them. I would never say they're a steal or anything but I've always found them more than pulling their weight.
As you said Deffkoptas main benefit is to max out a brigade. However, they're great for sneaking recon in itc, eating overwatch and can actually shoot ok (freebootas kustom megablasta can't blow up and hits on a 4 if +1 is proc'd)
2019/08/05 13:42:08
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
the only thing that the extra attack from marines that worry me is blood angel death companies.
Everything else either is only S4 with no ap (minus the powersword on the sergeant if he has it), still does NOT want to be in melee, or didnt really need the extra attack anyway (thunderhammer users come to mind)
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2019/08/05 15:45:21
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
flandarz wrote: Not just Fast Attack is overpriced. Pretty much everything we got, aside from a few things like Mek Gunz and Weirdboyz, needs a price drop. Just look at Flash Gitz; they're worse than a SM with Heavy Bolter in pretty much every way, but they cost 2 points more. Hell, I'm still trying to figure out why GW thought Boyz were too cheap at 6ppm.
If used correctly deffkoptas and stormboyz are incredibly point efficient. As for Flashgitz, the fact they’re a contender for heavy slots in numerous competitive lists really shows that they are appropriately priced. Bear in mind a gitz gun is straight up better than a heavy bolter, the guy himself has the characteristics of a primaris rather than a bog standard marine and the unit can take advantage of ork psychic spells, mob rule, ere we go as well as grot shield and more dakka. The comparison to a heavy bolter marine leaves the marine blushing.
Storm boyz are staples for any green tide army, their main weakness is being boyz, which simply don't do enough heavy lifting on their own.
Koptas aren't that great on their own, they pretty much only see play to max out brigades, since they are cheap and not completely useless when taken as minimum investment.
As for flash gits... stop comparing them to a model with a completely different weapon in a completely different codex that's not even considered to be great?
They could use a little push to make them decent, but I don't think they are more than two or three points off the mark.
The comparison should actually be between Flashgitz and Hellblasters. In this comparison for 3 more points per model the marines are getting a better save, and a gun wit h higher strength and a better AP. And if you don't count the freebooterz kultur they also have a better BS.
So, while flashgitz can be used competitively because they fill a gap in the army, they are still around 2 ppm more than they should be.
2019/08/05 23:21:18
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Eonfuzz wrote: How do we feel about Chainsaw Primaris having as many attacks as an ork nob, better saves and ballistic score for basically the same price?
How do we feel about Space Marines getting +1 to hit against Orks?
How do we feel about Space Marines getting (an arguably better, auto hitting) Dakka Dakka Dakka?
2019/08/05 23:52:16
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
CaptainO wrote: As you said Deffkoptas main benefit is to max out a brigade. However, they're great for sneaking recon in itc,
Yeah, ITC is not WH40k. Here you pretty wont find ITC games outside of private clubs, so it's pretty much the same as "great in narrative missions" to me.
eating overwatch
Disagree on this. The kopta has a huge base that takes away many attacks from a charging boyz mob, plus it's not actually that durable - I wouldn't try charging a unit of of heavy guns like lootas or helblasters with it. Outside of tying down rank and file infantry or tanks, I have found little use for their melee capacity.
and can actually shoot ok (freebootas kustom megablasta can't blow up and hits on a 4 if +1 is proc'd)
KMB are still unmodified ones, so freebootas don't prevent anything.
Compared to pretty much any buggy, their shooting is terrible (3 KMB koptas = 1 shokkjump dragsta). And buggies are not the best out there either.
Eonfuzz wrote: How do we feel about Chainsaw Primaris having as many attacks as an ork nob, better saves and ballistic score for basically the same price?
How do we feel about Space Marines getting +1 to hit against Orks?
How do we feel about Space Marines getting (an arguably better, auto hitting) Dakka Dakka Dakka?
Feels like you are misrepresenting what's actually happening.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/05 23:58:02
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2019/08/06 01:32:00
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Eonfuzz wrote: How do we feel about Chainsaw Primaris having as many attacks as an ork nob, better saves and ballistic score for basically the same price?
How do we feel about Space Marines getting +1 to hit against Orks?
How do we feel about Space Marines getting (an arguably better, auto hitting) Dakka Dakka Dakka?
I mentioned this in another thread you posted your concerns in, but I feel like you're overreacting a little.
I assume by +1 to hit you mean the +1 attack? That I feel will be more relevant since we will be hit harder by morale/losses by return attacks but not enough, IMO, for sufficient concern.
SM only get access to DDD! if they go for CF or IF, and even then its only specifically bolt weaponry, which is a very specific set of weapons, so not the same.
I have a bigger concern now that chapter tactics affects their whole army rather than just their infantry and bikers, but tbh, it was bizarre that they didn't have the same buffs applied to all their units like pretty much everyone else.
The ones to watch for right now are IH and UM, both of which for their vehicles, since IH have the resilience, and overwatch to give us headaches to negate (especially the FW vehicles) and the latter since their parking lots can now drive backwards and still shoot, so we have to tripoint our charges a lot more carefully now.
2019/08/06 01:41:51
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
The new SM "DDD" rule is both superior and inferior at the same time.
Its a free Hit, so they dont roll it. Thus, its superior.
Its also part of their tactics, while its a stock rule for us. Its even further still limiting on the weapons it works for, while ours isnt. On two grounds, its inferior.
Anybody whos been on the receiving end of a single KMB shot somehow causing 2 wounds that either crippled a vehicle or took it from only missing a wound or two to straight up dead will willingly complain about DDD. It doesnt do much for Shootas/Bigshootas, which is basically all the SM one works on, its a dangerous ability on the real guns.
What bolt weapon becomes ridiculous with that rule? Sure a few more dead boyz...big deal like that ever stopped the Tide anyway and bolters still dont do jank to any of our vehicles.
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2019/08/06 09:46:00
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Eonfuzz wrote: How do we feel about Chainsaw Primaris having as many attacks as an ork nob, better saves and ballistic score for basically the same price?
How do we feel about Space Marines getting +1 to hit against Orks?
How do we feel about Space Marines getting (an arguably better, auto hitting) Dakka Dakka Dakka?
I mentioned this in another thread you posted your concerns in, but I feel like you're overreacting a little.
I assume by +1 to hit you mean the +1 attack? That I feel will be more relevant since we will be hit harder by morale/losses by return attacks but not enough, IMO, for sufficient concern.
SM only get access to DDD! if they go for CF or IF, and even then its only specifically bolt weaponry, which is a very specific set of weapons, so not the same.
I have a bigger concern now that chapter tactics affects their whole army rather than just their infantry and bikers, but tbh, it was bizarre that they didn't have the same buffs applied to all their units like pretty much everyone else.
The ones to watch for right now are IH and UM, both of which for their vehicles, since IH have the resilience, and overwatch to give us headaches to negate (especially the FW vehicles) and the latter since their parking lots can now drive backwards and still shoot, so we have to tripoint our charges a lot more carefully now.
Crimson Fists get +1 to hit against units that have more at least 5 more models than them, with vehicles counting as 5. Which means they probably get a bonus against most of our infantry, but not against any vehicles, characters or small units of MANz or kommandoz or when shooting a unit that has already suffered losses.
The also got this from their White Dwarf supplement, so it's old news.
New is that when shooting bolt weapons, Imperial Fists and Chrimson Fists get an additional hit when rolling a 6. This is pretty powerful, but keep in mind that they already had something very similar as their chapter-specific stratagem. In the battle report I did here the IF player used that stratagem every single turn, so the units that got most out of it (hurricane bolters, agressors, inceptors) usually had it when needed.
Primaris bolters will benefit most from this, but this will not be what makes or breaks the army. If you have a CF or IF player in your group (or both, like me), they will be killing a lot more boyz (and not much else) from now on, but I doubt that they will be go-to chapter now. They
Their chapter tactics basically went from "nothing" to "something". They kind of gave every chapter their own Gulliman, so facing any of the new chapter tactics will not be much worse than facing an Ultramarine army (which stayed the same).
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2019/08/06 09:48:17
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
buddha wrote: Can't speak to the squigbuggy but the Snazzwagon is questionable at 70pts much less 100. Just look at a dakka jet and wonder why you would ever take one.
All of the buggies are about 25-33% over priced. I bring my 3 Scrapjets to every game I can (except competitive games) and they have yet to fail me....by being successful or earning their points back. Every single game they either flop spectacularly in their shooting or they get blasted off the table turn 1 because my opponent gets scared of their "missiles" which tend to "Miss" more then anything. In fact, I think only 1 of them has ever earned his points back and that was because he got into CC with some expensive terminator elites and rolled a 5 for Mortal wounds on the charge which killed 2 (3 MW's total 1 terminator was already injured) and then he swung first and killed another 2 by some miracle. after that all 3 were murdered in short order.
Pretty much everything in the FA slot for Orkz is over priced, including stormboyz. Granted, the Stormboyz are on the cusp of being appropriately priced. Give them a 5+ save stock instead of the 6+ and I would call it good enough.
Weird thing is Finland ETC team is bringing following list for orks.
Being ETC tournament which is premium competive event for competive players in Finland feels odd ork player would be making deliberately suboptimal list so this list surprised me.
Now one thing that helps all those scrap jets is 17 mek guns so single multi wound killing weapons certainly have target saturation.
I'll be following how this list goes with interest.
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2019/08/06 10:46:10
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Thayme wrote: Emicrania, how do you find the survivability of your shoota boyz seeing as they are your only real infantry threat?
I use them as a distraction carnifex and a way to proc +1, they survive rarely a whole match, but they eat so much shooting that allows the rest of my army to survive unscathed. Sometimes I jump themT2 , sometime I let them walk supported by kff and boss in order to survive moral issues.
Once you take care of mortar and hellblaster your opponent have to use big guns on them, which suits me just fine.
They are there to delay and split the enemy army, nothing else. Grots are insanely good to hide and grab objective, the Nauts are so big and scary that all my bakc line is usually safe 90% of the games I had.
2019/08/06 16:01:56
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
1. My list for tourney in a month includes a deffkilla wartrike and 2 x Deffkoptas. The idea is to use these to move 23" +2D6+1 and tie up three seperate units turn 1 (using 3D6 strat if necessary). Ideally these would be hard hitting shooting units which can't shoot after falling back. I will also be charging in stormboyz and potentailly jumping a choppa mob (instead of the double tapping BM shoota mob). so my question is, is 4-5 units (with good charge %s) enough saturation to tie up units turn 1, potentially throwing a big zoggin spanner in my opponents plan. Or is the 200pts better spent elsewhere?
2. My list is otherwise a horde army to negate heavy weaponry, with the exception of 3 smasha guns. I want a strong backline presence to control obj and stop deepstrike, and already have 15 lootas and 50 grots. I'm worried that, as the only target, the smasha's will be hit by all the anti tank and by useless, but i can't think of anything better. Sit them in both corners?
2019/08/06 18:20:33
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Couple of things to think about when facing Marines in the future.
1: They can now inflict some serious damage turn 1 with standard bolt weapons. and
2: They can now do some serious damage on the charge.
So look at turn 1 right now, orkz move and advance because that is what we do. Those SM players, the smart ones at least, will still be pretty close to 15-20' away. Instead of getting shot with 8 bolters shooting once you are now getting hit with 8 bolters shooting twice AND they get exploding 6s. So now its 16 shots for 10.3 hits and then 2.6ish more from exploding 6s so on average 13 hits, that is 6.5 wounds and against our amazing save of 6+ that is 5-6 dead Orkz, previously it was 8 shots, 5.36 hits and 2.68 wounds for roughly 2 dead Orkz. So they have gone up SIGNIFICANTLY in ranged damage on turn 1. Now, lets say we get close enough to charge turn 2. Now we are still eating overwatch with every 6 exploding meaning TWICE as many wounds in overwatch. If you fail and they counter attack instead of getting 11 attacks (2 on sergeant) you are getting hit with 21 attacks, so almost DOUBLE the damage in CC we were suffering before.
Now that scenario isn't meant as an actual real world scenario nor is it meant to be taken as "THIS WILL HAPPEN!" this is merely to point out the massive increase in damage that SM players can now inflict upon us with their bolter drill upgrade and the exploding 6 upgrade and the +1 attacks on the charge upgrade.
Imperial Fists just became hardcore ork killers and you guys need to take them a lot more seriously then you have in the past. And keep in mind, this is before we see all the other new toys and rules they are going to be getting. From the stuff i have seen, they don't look like they will be getting nerfed anywhere like our boyz were.
7000+
3500
2000 
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang. 
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
7500pts Necron Goldboys 