No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]

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**Vineheart01**

as a mostly mechanical ork player i laugh at both CF and IF.
CF's +1 to hit is basically only useful against infantry, i.e. boyz.
IFs ignore cover. Jokes on you i never get cover anyway due to how 8th's cover rules work in the first bloody place "wait wait you got 1 boy thats not against that wall so you dont get the cover of barricade" or "nope one boy cant fit on the crater so no area terrain for you"

**Emicrania**

That is a very good point, at the same time, we SHOULD have a point reduction and some help with the next CA since we were there last codex last year and we got no love in CA 2018

**Ashkayel**

Hey guys,

I tried the Big Mek with Souped-Up Shokk Attack Gun, Bigkilla Boss trait and Deathskulls kultur, in a 1000 pts game. Dang, for 80 pts (and a specialist detachment relic and a trait), that was so strong!

First turn I killed an Assault Centurions squad (using a CP to reroll Str) and second turn I destroyed a Razorback (using a CP to reroll number of hits). We stopped the game on turn 3...

That felt too strong for a casual game, I would say... I don't think I will use it again in a low points game... I don't know... Of course I got good rolls (and CP'ed bad rolls), but still...

What do you think?

PS: Sorry, I shouldn't be complaining about something being too strong. I guess I would have preferred if the normal SAG cost more and was Heavy 2D6...

**tneva82**

And then it's going to roll badly next time. Average result btw isn't dead razorback. Albeit tad short of 40% odds of one shotting(IIRC razorback had 11 wounds, T7, 3+). Likewise centurions rolled somewhat above average to do that.

Also remember game balance is affected heavily by point size so that skews it. And also...where's the vindicare assasin? That's like automatic inclusion by imperium these days.

But yeah on lower point values anything with relic will be more potent than same guy in 2k game and keeps getting weaker and weaker the more points are added. That's just the way game is designed. 40k doesn't really scale well down or up.

**Jidmah**

Levski wrote:
I got two questions for you ladz:

1. My list for tourney in a month includes a deffkilla wartrike and 2 x Deffkoptas. The idea is to use these to move 23" +2D6+1 and tie up three seperate units turn 1 (using 3D6 strat if necessary). Ideally these would be hard hitting shooting units which can't shoot after falling back. I will also be charging in stormboyz and potentailly jumping a choppa mob (instead of the double tapping BM shoota mob). so my question is, is 4-5 units (with good charge %s) enough saturation to tie up units turn 1, potentially throwing a big zoggin spanner in my opponents plan. Or is the 200pts better spent elsewhere?

In general, this idea isn't terrible, especially when you are using those fast attack choices to fill out a brigade. However, you need to be aware of two things:
1) In some armies, most notably eldar and ultramarines, almost all unit have some way to fall back out combat and still shoot at full power.
2) Properly set up armies will not allow you to charge anything worthwhile. You will most likely be fighting guardsmen, intercessors, firewarriors or similar units unless you have good chaff-clearing elsewhere. That's the job shoota boyz usually do in this set-up

2. My list is otherwise a horde army to negate heavy weaponry, with the exception of 3 smasha guns. I want a strong backline presence to control obj and stop deepstrike, and already have 15 lootas and 50 grots. I'm worried that, as the only target, the smasha's will be hit by all the anti tank and by useless, but i can't think of anything better. Sit them in both corners?

Eh, smashas are so cheap that even if they do get hit by anti-tank it's not going to be worth its points. Otherwise you can either bring more, drop them completely or replace them with a wazbomm, which is a bit more durable than smashas.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

SemperMortis wrote:
Couple of things to think about when facing Marines in the future.

1: They can now inflict some serious damage turn 1 with standard bolt weapons. and

The thing is... they can't. Regular bolt weapons fire 24"/12", primaris bolters are 30"/15" and the really dangerous assault bolters on inceptors and agressors are 18". To put it bluntly, none of the good bolter units will be in range turn one or they lose bolter drill for moving. Stuff like agressors and inceptors feth up your ork infantry even without the new chapter tactics, so they should be primary targets for your lootas anyways.

2: They can now do some serious damage on the charge.

So look at turn 1 right now, orkz move and advance because that is what we do. Those SM players, the smart ones at least, will still be pretty close to 15-20' away. Instead of getting shot with 8 bolters shooting once you are now getting hit with 8 bolters shooting twice AND they get exploding 6s. So now its 16 shots for 10.3 hits and then 2.6ish more from exploding 6s so on average 13 hits, that is 6.5 wounds and against our amazing save of 6+ that is 5-6 dead Orkz, previously it was 8 shots, 5.36 hits and 2.68 wounds for roughly 2 dead Orkz. So they have gone up SIGNIFICANTLY in ranged damage on turn 1. Now, lets say we get close enough to charge turn 2. Now we are still eating overwatch with every 6 exploding meaning TWICE as many wounds in overwatch. If you fail and they counter attack instead of getting 11 attacks (2 on sergeant) you are getting hit with 21 attacks, so almost DOUBLE the damage in CC we were suffering before.

You are doing the math against 10 tacticals. Tacticals suck an no marine player uses them anymore, and especially not in units of 10. Doubling their attacks is all but irrelevant. You should be doing the math for intercessors and interceptors.

Imperial Fists just became hardcore ork killers and you guys need to take them a lot more seriously then you have in the past. And keep in mind, this is before we see all the other new toys and rules they are going to be getting. From the stuff i have seen, they don't look like they will be getting nerfed anywhere like our boyz were.

Honestly? Exploding sixes is no worse than Dark Angels with their re-roll one for everyone plus 4++ KFF plus weapons of the Dark Age. What I would look out for is new stratagems, because right now the weakness of the marines I'm facing (IF, DA, UM, RG) is that they sit on 13 CP and have no idea what to do with them besides command re-rolls all the time. If they get a way to use those CP efficiently, then we will be having a problem.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Vineheart01 wrote:
as a mostly mechanical ork player i laugh at both CF and IF.
CF's +1 to hit is basically only useful against infantry, i.e. boyz.
IFs ignore cover. Jokes on you i never get cover anyway due to how 8th's cover rules work in the first bloody place "wait wait you got 1 boy thats not against that wall so you dont get the cover of barricade" or "nope one boy cant fit on the crater so no area terrain for you"

You can't use the "cover for everyone" stratagem though, which is very good for mech orks.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ashkayel wrote:
Hey guys,

I tried the Big Mek with Souped-Up Shokk Attack Gun, Bigkilla Boss trait and Deathskulls kultur, in a 1000 pts game. Dang, for 80 pts (and a specialist detachment relic and a trait), that was so strong!

First turn I killed an Assault Centurions squad (using a CP to reroll Str) and second turn I destroyed a Razorback (using a CP to reroll number of hits). We stopped the game on turn 3...

That felt too strong for a casual game, I would say... I don't think I will use it again in a low points game... I don't know... Of course I got good rolls (and CP'ed bad rolls), but still...

What do you think?

PS: Sorry, I shouldn't be complaining about something being too strong. I guess I would have preferred if the normal SAG cost more and was Heavy 2D6...

During my last game the SSAG managed to kill exactly two eliminators (primaris sniper) - it swings both ways

You are basically putting a gamble on the board.

**CaptainO**

Yeah, ITC is not WH40k. Here you pretty wont find ITC games outside of private clubs, so it's pretty much the same as "great in narrative missions" to me.

Fair enough. Has ITC not taken off in Germany? I've enjoyed the few MoW and EW games I've played but 90% of the tournaments I've seen in the UK have switched to ITC.

Disagree on this. The kopta has a huge base that takes away many attacks from a charging boyz mob, plus it's not actually that durable - I wouldn't try charging a unit of of heavy guns like lootas or helblasters with it. Outside of tying down rank and file infantry or tanks, I have found little use for their melee capacity.

I should have clarified that I find it good for eating overwatch from vehicles prior to charging in an ork unit that can actually do damage (warboss/character)

KMB are still unmodified ones, so freebootas don't prevent anything.

There probably was a FAQ that clarified this so I could be wrong but where does it say "unmodified" regarding KMB. From the index and codex it just says "on a hit roll of 1 the bearer takes a mortal wound". As I said I could have missed something that added "unmodified". I know the Vigalus strat for Tempestus Scions adds one to hit rolls and I've seen it run in tournaments so that they can't overheat.

**tneva82**

Jidmah wrote:
Eh, smashas are so cheap that even if they do get hit by anti-tank it's not going to be worth its points. Otherwise you can either bring more, drop them completely or replace them with a wazbomm, which is a bit more durable than smashas.

Thing is if those are only vehicle type models they ARE worth shooting for lascannons. Or what they are going to shoot? Ork boyz? What a waste of lascannon! Mek guns you easily lose 6 a turn. Last time I faced eldars it wasn't even particularly optimized list and lost 8 right on turn 1. Boom. Poof. That's what happens if you bring mek guns to otherwise infantry heavy army. Every single lascannon/multi damage weapon shoots at them because there's nothing else even remotely worthwhile for enemy to shoot at. Mek gun is hell of a more optimal target for lascannon than 7pts ork boy.

**Jidmah**

CaptainO wrote:
Fair enough. Has ITC not taken off in Germany? I've enjoyed the few MoW and EW games I've played but 90% of the tournaments I've seen in the UK have switched to ITC.

Most tournaments here are either organized by ETC or GW stores. Neither has any interest in running ITC.

There probably was a FAQ that clarified this so I could be wrong but where does it say "unmodified" regarding KMB. From the index and codex it just says "on a hit roll of 1 the bearer takes a mortal wound".

No it doesn't?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:
Jidmah wrote:
Eh, smashas are so cheap that even if they do get hit by anti-tank it's not going to be worth its points. Otherwise you can either bring more, drop them completely or replace them with a wazbomm, which is a bit more durable than smashas.

Thing is if those are only vehicle type models they ARE worth shooting for lascannons. Or what they are going to shoot? Ork boyz? What a waste of lascannon! Mek guns you easily lose 6 a turn. Last time I faced eldars it wasn't even particularly optimized list and lost 8 right on turn 1. Boom. Poof. That's what happens if you bring mek guns to otherwise infantry heavy army. Every single lascannon/multi damage weapon shoots at them because there's nothing else even remotely worthwhile for enemy to shoot at. Mek gun is hell of a more optimal target for lascannon than 7pts ork boy.

You assume that 4 lascannons killing a smasha gun per turn is somehow efficient. It's not. Unless it one-shots the mek gun, a lascannon is not efficient at killing 32 point smashas.

**CaptainO**

tneva82 wrote:
Jidmah wrote:
Eh, smashas are so cheap that even if they do get hit by anti-tank it's not going to be worth its points. Otherwise you can either bring more, drop them completely or replace them with a wazbomm, which is a bit more durable than smashas.

Thing is if those are only vehicle type models they ARE worth shooting for lascannons. Or what they are going to shoot? Ork boyz? What a waste of lascannon! Mek guns you easily lose 6 a turn. Last time I faced eldars it wasn't even particularly optimized list and lost 8 right on turn 1. Boom. Poof. That's what happens if you bring mek guns to otherwise infantry heavy army. Every single lascannon/multi damage weapon shoots at them because there's nothing else even remotely worthwhile for enemy to shoot at. Mek gun is hell of a more optimal target for lascannon than 7pts ork boy.

I've found this too. When you're running a horde and the only multi wound units are characters (untargetable) Flashgitz (making use of grot shield) and mek gunz the mek gunz are literally the only target. I don't see a way around it especially if you're running a brigade. Swapping some mek gunz for another squad of gitz or lootas doesn't work because you can only use grot shields once and the other heavy support units provide even juicier targets. Hiding lootas in cover T1, moving/da jumping to an advantageous position and then using more dakka to negate the -1 to hit would be an alternative to taking all the smasha gunz. The mek gunz are just so point efficient that it makes sense to just take the expected loss T1 on the chin.

**tneva82**

Jidmah wrote:

You assume that 4 lascannons killing a smasha gun per turn is somehow efficient. It's not. Unless it one-shots the mek gun, a lascannon is not efficient at killing 32 point smashas.

But 4 lascannons shooting at boyz is? What on earth are you saying those lascannons shoot if not mek guns? If not mek guns then we are talking about T4 W1 infantry...That's even less efficient than smasha guns.

We are not talking about tailoring list vs that list and "let's add lascannons to deal with mek guns!". We are talking about adding mek guns to list that's otherwise infantry when people are gearing up one shotting knights. That means armies WILL have anti tank weapons and in that case where else are they going to shoot if not mek guns? The mek guns are literally only thing even remotely worth it for lascannons to shoot. Otherwise there's...boyz! Yey. T4 W1 7 pts. EXCELENT TARGET! Or wait...There's those grots! T2 W1 3 pts! Yep. Worth using lascannon! Yep. Excelent target selection!

Let's see. One lascannon averages tad short of 10 pts(9.95 to be precise) vs smasha gun. 3.88 pts vs ork boyz. Guess which one lascannon shoots?

**CaptainO**

@Jidmah

The KMB that can be attached to the deffkopta is an index only option and in the index there doesn't say unmodified 1s. Hence the confusion

**Jidmah**

The first weapon is 24", the line referrs to all four guns. It's also on every single datasheet that can take them.

Just check your codex, please.

You must use the codex profile if such a profile exists.

**Emicrania**

CaptainO wrote:

@Jidmah

The KMB that can be attached to the deffkopta is an index only option and in the index there doesn't say unmodified 1s. Hence the confusion

I understand your confusion because I did the same mistake. Jid is right, the confusion might be clarified by this design commentary:

Spoiler:

All the above to say: UNMODIFIED rolls are UNMODIFIED rolls. the +1 from freeboterz does not influece unmodified rolls, otherwise you would proc DDD on 5s wouldn´t you?

**CaptainO**

Yup confusion sorted.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Is it ETC that doesn’t allow index units?

**Vineheart01**

You can't use the "cover for everyone" stratagem though, which is very good for mech orks.

While technically true, i never get a benefit out of it. Ive typically got 3 KFFs covering my army anyway. Generally the only thing that hits me T1 is either high AP long range guns (which on average is a 5+ anyway, sometimes worse) or is still hitting boyz, which the 5++ is better than 5+ of course.
i think ive used that strat once. Every time i can, i look at my army and go "Nah, 5++ is better"

Not saying its a useless one, just doesnt help me. I've used it on my Admech alot.

edit: Also if Freeboota worked like that i think they would be the most powerful kulture we got by a long shot. Bypassing Gets Hot completely and DDD on a 5? Thats ridiculous (assuming no negs)

**Jidmah**

CaptainO wrote:

Is it ETC that doesn’t allow index units?

Yep, no FW or Indexes at ETC events.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:
Jidmah wrote:

You assume that 4 lascannons killing a smasha gun per turn is somehow efficient. It's not. Unless it one-shots the mek gun, a lascannon is not efficient at killing 32 point smashas.

But 4 lascannons shooting at boyz is? What on earth are you saying those lascannons shoot if not mek guns? If not mek guns then we are talking about T4 W1 infantry...That's even less efficient than smasha guns.

We are not talking about tailoring list vs that list and "let's add lascannons to deal with mek guns!". We are talking about adding mek guns to list that's otherwise infantry when people are gearing up one shotting knights. That means armies WILL have anti tank weapons and in that case where else are they going to shoot if not mek guns? The mek guns are literally only thing even remotely worth it for lascannons to shoot. Otherwise there's...boyz! Yey. T4 W1 7 pts. EXCELENT TARGET! Or wait...There's those grots! T2 W1 3 pts! Yep. Worth using lascannon! Yep. Excelent target selection!

Let's see. One lascannon averages tad short of 10 pts(9.95 to be precise) vs smasha gun. 3.88 pts vs ork boyz. Guess which one lascannon shoots?

If you are bringing nothing but characters, boyz and gretchin, the efficiency of lascannons is the least of your concerns. And 10 pts per shot is still terrible for a 25 point gun attached to at least a devastator worth of points. So your basic assessment of smashas being worth shooting for lascannons is already wrong.

I also refuse to discuss this with you any further since you are acting like a turd again. This is like the tenth time I pull you off my ignore list just to put you right back on. You're a great ork player and have lots of tactical insight, but I simply refuse to waste my free time on someone acting like you.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Vineheart01 wrote:
You can't use the "cover for everyone" stratagem though, which is very good for mech orks.

While technically true, i never get a benefit out of it. Ive typically got 3 KFFs covering my army anyway. Generally the only thing that hits me T1 is either high AP long range guns (which on average is a 5+ anyway, sometimes worse) or is still hitting boyz, which the 5++ is better than 5+ of course.
i think ive used that strat once. Every time i can, i look at my army and go "Nah, 5++ is better"

Not saying its a useless one, just doesnt help me. I've used it on my Admech alot.

edit: Also if Freeboota worked like that i think they would be the most powerful kulture we got by a long shot. Bypassing Gets Hot completely and DDD on a 5? Thats ridiculous (assuming no negs)

I guess this boils down to your meta being the exact opposite of my meta again

I'm facing lots of armies with high RoF weapons, like primaris, harlequins, eldar jetbikes, daemons or chaos. Buffing vehicles to 3+ and walkers to 2+ mitigates lots of wounds taken from those guns. 3+ for characters is also nice vs eliminators which I'm seeing a lot more often right now.

**Levski**

Jidmah wrote:
Levski wrote:
I got two questions for you ladz:

1. My list for tourney in a month includes a deffkilla wartrike and 2 x Deffkoptas. The idea is to use these to move 23" +2D6+1 and tie up three seperate units turn 1 (using 3D6 strat if necessary). Ideally these would be hard hitting shooting units which can't shoot after falling back. I will also be charging in stormboyz and potentailly jumping a choppa mob (instead of the double tapping BM shoota mob). so my question is, is 4-5 units (with good charge %s) enough saturation to tie up units turn 1, potentially throwing a big zoggin spanner in my opponents plan. Or is the 200pts better spent elsewhere?

In general, this idea isn't terrible, especially when you are using those fast attack choices to fill out a brigade. However, you need to be aware of two things:
1) In some armies, most notably eldar and ultramarines, almost all unit have some way to fall back out combat and still shoot at full power.
2) Properly set up armies will not allow you to charge anything worthwhile. You will most likely be fighting guardsmen, intercessors, firewarriors or similar units unless you have good chaff-clearing elsewhere. That's the job shoota boyz usually do in this set-up

Yeah obviously against those kind of units its pointless to attempt this strategy, so i'd use them for other tasks. But tbh, any of the infantry you listed that has to fall back is not then shooting boyz

I'm banking on the fact that people won't expect the distance they can cover, and given the koptas can fly, they can bypass screens on the charge and hopefully tie up a vehicle or something.

I'll try it out and report back. The tournament is mono-codex only, so hoping ork horde can put in a good showing

**tneva82**

Levski wrote:
I'm banking on the fact that people won't expect the distance they can cover, and given the koptas can fly, they can bypass screens on the charge and hopefully tie up a vehicle or something.

Codex is by now almost year old. So while some new player or somebody whose local meta is curiously empty of orks might not be aware of that it's generally better to assume opponents know simple trick like that. Anything that depends on "maybe opponent doesn't know this public information" is rather risky to begin with.

**hollow one**

Levski wrote:
Jidmah wrote:
In general, this idea isn't terrible, especially when you are using those fast attack choices to fill out a brigade. However, you need to be aware of two things:
1) In some armies, most notably eldar and ultramarines, almost all unit have some way to fall back out combat and still shoot at full power.
2) Properly set up armies will not allow you to charge anything worthwhile. You will most likely be fighting guardsmen, intercessors, firewarriors or similar units unless you have good chaff-clearing elsewhere. That's the job shoota boyz usually do in this set-up

Yeah obviously against those kind of units its pointless to attempt this strategy, so i'd use them for other tasks. But tbh, any of the infantry you listed that has to fall back is not then shooting boyz

I'm banking on the fact that people won't expect the distance they can cover, and given the koptas can fly, they can bypass screens on the charge and hopefully tie up a vehicle or something.

I'll try it out and report back. The tournament is mono-codex only, so hoping ork horde can put in a good showing

Jidmah's 2nd point is extremely important, don't dismiss it so easily. If your big squads of boyz and and stormboyz are just charging infantry you are in serious trouble. The infantry fall back and then you have just delivered them free kills. Their 10 man guard squad has done it's job, your 30 man boyz squad killed nothing meaningful.

Place something in your army that deals with screens, instead of relying on jumping over them. Then you can punch a hole turn 1 and go hard turn 2, this is a common approach.

Things that do this really well are lootas, dakka jets, shoota boyz (as recommended by jid), etc. Most people who have played the game in the past year vs orks have seen the koptas, everyone is using them to fill out their brigade. They are common knowledge. I'd recommend trying to outplay your opponent with reliable strategies rather than hoping they are unaware of your movement.

**Sluggaloo**

Spoiler:

List I'm theorycrafting for tomorrows meta (involving spacemarines ignoring -1 ap of our lootas with the salamanders trait, hitting us with 5+ overwatch, wounding ork boyz on 2+ with bolters etc).

Grots are now your friend. 210 fearless freeboota grots which hit in melee with 4+ thanks to bannernob, get an extra attach on the charge with Gazzy aura, can get an extra attack with warpath, hit with 3+ BS...
Moving alongside them are Badrukk and 10 flashgits which benefit from 1+ to hit for each unit the grot horde kills.
Multiple sources of leadership solving HQs means if 1 gets sniped a turn by eliminators you're still fine.

Compulsory movement trays should make the army playable.

Thoughts? Is this a stupid idea? Please tell me this wont work, I'd rather not have to do this as our best answer to the meta.

**russellmoo**

Do you really have 210 grots?

Let us know how it goes.

**flandarz**

Remember the Badskull Banner only works once per game. So, after that first turn, they suffer from Morale just as normal. The Snakebitez Warlord Trait is a far better means of keeping your Grots around.

That said, you're probably better off just swapping to mechanized Orkz rather than trying to make infantry work against them.

**Ratius**

Grot Tide baby. Great stuff.

**mhalko1**

So I have been thinking about some tactics vs various armies. And I know the reason my next question is not talked about is that necrons don't perform well at the high level of competitive play, but what kind of units and list tactics would work best against them?

The usual d6 damage weapons wouldn't be great against the vehicle with quantum shielding, so relying on lootas would probably be the best option.

Also what are our odds for wiping 20 man warrior blobs? would it require full army focus to do?

**addnid**

Hi fellow greenskinz ! I am trying to work a 2000 list with 3 gorkas (can be one mork and 2 gorks), I have posted my first draft in the list section. I put spoilers to avoid a good krumpin by Jidmah

This is a fairly long read, you may want to skip the context i won't blame ya

Spoiler:

Can you a green bro out ? As it is i am not feelin it much hah hah. DEFINATELY NEEDS some tweaking !!

3 too much ? Over 900 points after all.... :(

I think I'll turn one batallion into a deathskull one, with 2 SAGs and the wasbom. I'll ditch one wiredboy and the big boss for that

**Gruxz**

mhalko1 wrote:
So I have been thinking about some tactics vs various armies. And I know the reason my next question is not talked about is that necrons don't perform well at the high level of competitive play, but what kind of units and list tactics would work best against them?

The usual d6 damage weapons wouldn't be great against the vehicle with quantum shielding, so relying on lootas would probably be the best option.

Also what are our odds for wiping 20 man warrior blobs? would it require full army focus to do?

My experience with necrons tells me yes, 1 shot necron units or you will be sorry you didnt. If you want a squad gone. You need to take them out in 1 turn. Or else it's just a waste of time.

And lootas are great yes. But you might want to aim them at infantry as well. Some tankbustas might be good to add. But it might push it.

**SemperMortis**

Grot tide wont work against the new SM codex.

**Diorkenes the Cynic**

How viable is a plan to tellyport a bunch of melee dreds plus a unit of boyz, plus an additional unit of boyz jumped, with bikers and a wartrike zooming up, for a big turn two smash? There'd be other units on the board, including more boyz and some supporting lootas and grots.

I play primarily against admech, tau, and primaris marines (with lots of flamestorm) - if it matters.

**Grimskul**

I will admit that after seeing the bonkers amount of rules being released for the new SM that my initial cautious optimism is slowly being petered out from the addition of doctrines AND yet to be revealed chapter-specific stratagems and even psychic disciplines now. We'll obviously need more context but now marines are going to be extremely dangerous in both melee and range for practically everything in our army, tying things up in melee doesn't seem like a viable option anymore, it seems like we have to go all out in wiping units combining both shooting and charging en masse, and not having first turn will really hurt us.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Diorkenes the Cynic wrote:
How viable is a plan to tellyport a bunch of melee dreds plus a unit of boyz, plus an additional unit of boyz jumped, with bikers and a wartrike zooming up, for a big turn two smash? There'd be other units on the board, including more boyz and some supporting lootas and grots.

I play primarily against admech, tau, and primaris marines (with lots of flamestorm) - if it matters.

Wartrike is alright, but tbh you're better served by a regular warboss on bike from the index if your meta allows him. He's cheaper and pretty much does the same thing but hit harder, especially with the killa klaw relic, since you don't have any vehicles to give advance and charge anyways. Be sure to have your tellyporting dreadz be in groups of 2 if you have multiple, because groups of 3 are extremely hard to place well for charges due to their large base size and you do have to set them up in coherency when you first deploy them. I'd emphasize on at least having some mek gunz to give you more ranged options than just lootas, especially to do some damage to heavily armoured multi-wound units like Kastelan Robots and Ghostkeels/Riptides that boyz will have issues dealing damage to and that the dreadz may not be able to reach. If you have point, also potentially consider a dakkajet to get rid of screens that protect the shooty elements of his army so your boyz can gain access to them.

**hollow one**

addnid wrote:
Hi fellow greenskinz ! I am trying to work a 2000 list with 3 gorkas (can be one mork and 2 gorks), I have posted my first draft in the list section. I put spoilers to avoid a good krumpin by Jidmah
This is a fairly long read, you may want to skip the context i won't blame ya

Spoiler:

Hi all !
So the goal, admittedly ambitious, is to field my 3 Gorkanauts (one is magnetised ready to be shifted to a morkanaut) and make them work competitively. I am prepared to change heavily this list, so all your advice is reallty very welcome !
I will face ad mech sunday 11th august 2019, so until then i need to make this concept work !
Now i know this will never have the versatility of an evil sunz boyz heavy list.
I went full bad moon seeing no benefit to mixing clans.
The idea is to be able to deal with:
- gen cult lists, other ork lists, demon lists, all other mass infantery lists
- Flyer heavy lists (mek gunz + SSAG usually work fine for this)
- be able to break even with knight lists (may need some tweaking for this)
- I will obviously lose against lists tailored to kill knights.
I am part of a team training for next year's etc team champion ship qualifiers in France (an outsider team, nothing famous I am afraid, sorry... )

Without further ado, the list:
PLAYER : Addnid

DETACHMENT : fer de lance bad moon dredd waaagh
HQ1 : Big Mek avec Kanon Shokk(1*55), Kanon Shokk(25), [Vigilus]Eul'Shokker surgonflé, Boss kitutou, Grot Graisseur(4) [84]
HS1 : Gorkanaut(1*250), 2 TWL Big shoota(20), 2 rokit Launchas (24), heavy flamer(17) [311]
HS2 : Gorkanaut(1*250), 2 TWL Big shoota(20), 2 rokit Launchas (24), heavy flamer(17) [311]
HS3 : Gorkanaut(1*250), 2 TWL Big shoota(20), 2 rokit Launchas (24), heavy flamer(17) [311]
HS4 : 2 Mek Gunz(15 + 1*15), 2 smasha(32) [62]
HS5 : 3 Mek Gunz(15 + 2*15), 3 smasha(48) [93]
HS6 : 3 Mek Gunz(15 + 2*15), smasha(48) [93]
Total detachment : 1265

DETACHMENT : Bataillon Bad moon
HQ1 : Big Mek en Méga-armure(1*77),KMB(9), PK(13), KFF(20), Grot (4) [123]
HQ2 : Warboss(1*65),KS(2), Big Choppa(5), Squig' [72]
Troup1 : 10 Gretchins(30) [30]
Troup2 : 10 Gretchins(30) [30]
Troup3 : 10 Gretchins(30) [30]
Elite1 : Nob w banner Waaagh!(1*75), KS(2) [77]
Total detachment : 362

DETACHMENT : Bataillon bad moons 2
HQ1 : Weirdboy(1*62),[62]
HQ2 : Weirdboy(1*62), [62]
Troup1 : 10 Gretchins(30) [30]
Troup2 : 10 Gretchins(30) [30]
Troup3 : 10 Gretchins(30) [30]
Flyer1 : Wazbom Blastajets(1*99), 2 Méga-kanon wazbom(24), smasha(16),KFF(20) [159]
Total detachment : 373

ARMY TOTAL [2000]

Would freebooter be better ? I want to shoot twice one gork and the SSAG during the same turn, but is it worth it ??
The plan is to keep a gork in the TP and rush it for that 3d6 charge (4 cp though) if opponent doesn't have mass infantery (gorkanaut's gunz are not good at all vs multiwound).
The banner will be kept near the gorkas if possible, the huge gorka base will help a lot for that 6 inch aura.
The boss will keep grots from fleeing, but i may echange him for a 3rd weirdboy or badruk, dunno. I cover a bit of the board with my 60 grots, as long as they keep far enough away from opponent.

2 KFFs, one for the first turn wiche can't be targeted, the the wasbom's (two wasboms would be better but can't find the points for a second) to get good cover.

I have faith that gorkanauts/morks will go down 30 points minimum next CA, but in the meantime I think they can work a bit (not as well as the most well known ork lists out there though).

Again all advice is welcome, even needed I dare say -as it is perhaps the mlist doesn't work-, I have every possible mini (7000 points of painted orks at the least) so i can probably fit most suggestions you may make)

Thanks in advance guys !!

Can you a green bro out ? As it is i am not feelin it much hah hah. DEFINATELY NEEDS some tweaking !!

3 too much ? Over 900 points after all.... :(

I think I'll turn one batallion into a deathskull one, with 2 SAGs and the wasbom. I'll ditch one wiredboy and the big boss for that

With your goals:
Dealing with horde lists I think you list does well, they can't kill gorks and you can stomp.
Dealing with flyers you can not, you will never hit anything, all -2 flyers are 6+ to hit only and you only have approximately 10 heavy shots on average (not including SSAG).
Break even with knights is also not possible without SSAG rolling hot. Your list does maybe 10 wounds on average in shooting. You can deal with gallants but not crusaders.

To solve some of these issues, I would swap smasha to traktor. This gives you actual game vs flyers. This list also looks like a pretty legit mech list, so you are dropping the value of opponent's infantry killing. I would increase your flyer count, since flyers are must answers and require heavy weaponry, they will indirectly protect your Gorka. Big meks are really good in your list, and I would consider the tripple SAG style because you can also repair effectively here.

So overall I would suggest a skew list, which will be good in ETC. anti-horde that ignores low str weapons:

-1 warboss (72pts)
-1 nob w/ banner (77 pts)
-8 smasha (248pts)

+2 SAG big mek (160pts)
+1 Dakkajet (148pts)
+2 traktors (90pts)

If you want to go more skew, drop the SAG's entirely and go for a second dakkajet.

You can make a deathskulls detachment for two of the three SAG, then consider badmoons or evil sunz. I think this list might benefit from going snakebites as well. 5++ and 6+++ on all vehicles is pretty good. But realistically you are going all deathskulls. You will not have the CP in this list to double shoot badmoons and dread waagh effectively (you need at least a brigade for that), so I would recommend all deathskulls. You've built a very low damage, but potentially durable list if you get the right matchups.