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A Freebooterz shokkjump dragsta is also another candidate.

I think I made that before the codex had come out but the rules for Dakka Dakka Dakka and More Dakka had been revealed, so I just included all cases because it was easier than excluding any.

Man. Our buggies are so lackluster I completely forgot about that one.

Shokkjump is probably the only buggy i wouldnt forget about.
I swear if the Wartrike didnt have that charge aura we wouldnt see him either.

ive had that shockjump win me games. Ive also had it do jack diddly squat but that just means its not absolutely amazing, but still good.

The only thing I really don't care for with it is that if you want to Advance into Charge range, you're probably gonna end up getting jumped out further than you wanna be. Really wish it had more than 3 shots as well. It's so... middle of the road, when this game rewards specialization.

I think 3 deathskulls shokkjump dragstas can put in some work but I don't think it's enough compared to our other choices.
A megatrakk scrapjet has approximately 5 rokkits it fires, which is comparable to the AT shots coming out of the shokkjump dragsta.
And then it has 2 twin big shootas.
And a nose drill, which is strictly better then the saw blades.
And a spiked ram.
I know the scrapjet loses out on mobility, but that's a lot more killy and versatile for 10 less points. If you need mobility you can make it evil sunz and give it +2" base movement and another 2"-7" if it advances.
Maybe I'm undervaluing the teleport. I feel like for me to consider running it in my ITC games I'd need it to be closer to the cost of a double KMB dread (103 points), or have some other benefit.

i'll admit the rate of fire is kinda bullcrap.
I cant even think of another army equivalent at all, let alone one thats used, with the same statline.

The absolute closest is Ironstriders with lascannons, which are 80pts T6 6W 4+ 6++. Only 2 shots, but its way further reach, has stratagems to make them hit on 2s even against fliers, and 40pts less
Still a major difference.

Ahh the buggies. Too "big" as to be cheap, too few guns as to shoot properly. On top, the guns they have have zero to negative synergy (maybe except the scrapjet).

 slyche wrote:
Hi,

Sorry, if I'm posting in the wrong tread I'm new here.

I read most of this discussion on ork tactics and there has been a point that caught me off guard.

All of you seems too agree that Shoota boyz are better to clear weak infantry screens on T1 (to allow jump and deepstrike sheninigans) with the Bad Moons kulturs

I prefer evil suns for T1 da jump chaff clearing. Principle being 30 boyz will kill or at least cripple one target fairly well and then reliably charge 2 more and maim those. With bad moons yes you shoot bit better but odds of charging drops from 78% to 58%. Too low to really count for.

Showing off is of course a thing but rarely I find myself where I would shoot twice with boyz rather than lootas in T1 and if I have bad moons I have lootas.

As for why 30 rather than 40 I don't like mobbing up boyz because it prevents green tide. I find I need to have at least 3 units that can mob up to have decent chance of actually using that stratagem. If I have 30+30+10 and mob up it's basically never used and 70 boyz dies like in a turn. 30+30+30+10 MIGHT work but 2 is still risky and I find myself out of boyz by turn 3 if I don't have at least 3 units + green tided unit.

I just watched the stream, good job vs those flying cheetos! one thing I´ve done differently is that I´d jumped the shoota boyz backline and tried to shoot/charge that back unit in order to deny/grab objective asap. I play a pure freeboterz Inspired by Ben Jurek and I use my shoota boyz either to proc the +1 , or to be a distraction carnifex. People tend to overcommit to kill 30 boyz, especially if they can see that you have 5 CP left or 3+freeboterz flag.
I haven´t play this list yet, but i think the strenght of it is in the similarity to a horde even if grots are basically ablative Wounds and obj takers. As Dj are awesome, in this list you play, they might be more a problem than a solution. They are still T6 4+, even with the -1 to hit. Maybe a DS Gorka for T2 backline clearing? Situationational , but I am training to go 2nd every match atm and I was vs AD Mech with breachers, Knight, warglaive, robots loyal 32, you name it. By T2 I had left the smashas, some grots, HQ´s and my DS Gorka vs his everything minus a knight. Well 3d6 charge and a warboss charge later i basically won the match. A 4 CP investment can be horrific on those castles, once you cleared chaffs and so on.
VS vect, dunno man, more than sitting in ruins and/or KFF we cant do much,I don´t think a painboy is a good investment with so little W pool. Is mostly all about careful positioning in magic boxes and out of LOS than anything else really.
I ll have to try it after the GT I have on the 6th, I´ll let you know. But I think that list is gonna be in the new meta for a while, especially vs marines.

One question thought, how were you speedrolling those smashas? The commentary was pretty confused...
Also, why you took those W on the Bustas T2? didn´t you use Grot Shield? Can´t you use more unit to soak up dmg?

@Emicrania: Once again, please provide links to sources outside of dakka if you are referring to them. Other people would like to watch that stream as well without needing to google it.

It is in the spoiler my man

Question

Is there a viable way to run a low model count ork army that can hold its own?

my plane blew up and did wounds to the bustas. Was very unfortunate.

If I recall correctly, I had to prioritize da jumping the tank bustas because the planes weren't in range from their bunker. I need at least 3 planes in range to make it worth my while cause 15 tankbustas should do like 51 wounds to planes with 3+ or 5++.

Then after that the game was basically over as I killed like 1300 points of his army so I wasn't going super hard.

:edited for missing a word

daismith906 wrote:Question

Is there a viable way to run a low model count ork army that can hold its own?

Yes, double/triple gorka+gunz+triple plane.

vercingatorix wrote:my plane blew up and did wounds to the bustas. Was very unfortunate.

If I recall correctly, I had to prioritize da jumping the tank bustas because the planes weren't in range from their bunker. I need at least 3 planes in range to make it worth my while cause 51 should do like 51 wounds to planes with 3+ or 5++.

Then after that the game was basically over as I killed like 1300 points of his army so I wasn't going super hard.

Yeah I understand, keep on with the list, Ill PM you when I get the chance to play a couple of times.

 Emicrania wrote:
It is in the spoiler my man

Yah, me blind. Sorry!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

daismith906 wrote:
Question

Is there a viable way to run a low model count ork army that can hold its own?

In what kind of context? What do you consider a low model count?

"low model count" for orks still has at least 60 grots floating around.

There is no reason to not bring battalions if you are trying to run max vehicles instead. Gretchin and the extra HQ are basically trading a vehicle for 4CP per battalion. And even though vehicle orks dont devour AS much CP as loota/flashgit/greentide orks, still suicide to run with less than 10CP imo.

I have a 1k Ork list that only has something like 50 models. A CP Battalion with a SSAG, SAG, Mork, and 30 Gretchin, then an Outrider Detachment with a Biker Boss and 3 groups of Warbikers. Probably far from the most competitive build around, but I like it.

Ben Jurek original list had about 60 models on the 2k mark. Even those 20 meganobz lists have at least 60 grots more backing them up.

How are people best using their Meganobz?
Loadouts, transport, Kultur?

I was thinking a max size unit, with kustom shootas and claws, running Evil Sunz kultur for a more reliable charge.

Then Da Jumping them where ever they can do the most damage.

 dan2026 wrote:
How are people best using their Meganobz?
Loadouts, transport, Kultur?

I was thinking a max size unit, with kustom shootas and claws, running Evil Sunz kultur for a more reliable charge.

Then Da Jumping them where ever they can do the most damage.

Large unit with all klaws and normal shootas (via Index, if that’s available to you), Evil Sunz and Tellyporta stratagem is probably the best way. Deffskulls minimum sized unit in a rokkit Trukk with a kombi-rokkit and mix of klaws and saws for fun games isn’t terrible.

On the First page there is a 20 meganobz list Liam Hackett used. I guess he jumps one and DS another one, but as everything in 40k that is situational. Evil sunz is the way to go btw

 dan2026 wrote:
How are people best using their Meganobz?
Loadouts, transport, Kultur?

I was thinking a max size unit, with kustom shootas and claws, running Evil Sunz kultur for a more reliable charge.

Then Da Jumping them where ever they can do the most damage.

On my shelf, collecting dust. as soon as they are competitive they will come out again, I personally don't like the model that much so I only have 6, but they can be fun (fluff wise) when you put them near ghaz.

The big thing keeping me from fielding MANz is that, while fairly durable, they don't deal much damage to anything. That -1 to hit from the Klaw really hurts them, and their ranged options are all pretty sub-par. And, honestly, with all the AP in the game, that 2+ Save isn't even that attractive either. They just have a lot of problems that make normal Nobz and Boyz better at anything you'd want them to do.

 flandarz wrote:
The big thing keeping me from fielding MANz is that, while fairly durable, they don't deal much damage to anything. That -1 to hit from the Klaw really hurts them, and their ranged options are all pretty sub-par. And, honestly, with all the AP in the game, that 2+ Save isn't even that attractive either. They just have a lot of problems that make normal Nobz and Boyz better at anything you'd want them to do.

4 Meganobz = 140pts 5 Hellblasters = 165pts

5 Hellblasters WITH NO BUFFS, fire 5 shots at 30 or 10 shots at 15, without supercharging they hit 3.33 and 6.66 respectively and wound 2.22 and 4.44 which inflict 1.86 damage and 3.7 damage. If they super charge their shots its 3.33 and 6.66 hits still, 3.16 and 6.5 wounds which translate into 6 and 13ish damage. So those Hellblasters can basically wipe out a Meganobz squad at 15' range or kill half of it at 30' range. So much for durability, and as you mentioned flandarz, Units with that kind of -AP are not exactly rare in this edition.

Do people think regular Nobz with Big Choppas would get more work done?

I'd personally just give them Dual Choppas. That's 50 attacks on a full mob, for 140 points (the same number of points you'd spend on just 4 MANz with 12 attacks). With S5, they're already at a good place for Wounding, and we have better options for dealing with anything that needs AP. Use them to take out screens and elite infantry, and leave the vehicles to your Smashas, Killa Klaw Biker Boss, and SSAG.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As much as I hate to say it, in 8th edition volume of attacks/shots means more than Strength, AP, or Damage.

You make a good point.
With the two ammo grots there to soak up some overwatch it's only 148 points.
Dirt cheap for 50 S5 attacks.

Crush your enemy under weight of dice.

i'd recommend a mix. I generally run 6/4 bigchoppa vs dualchoppa but ive often thought i should switch that.

Bigchoppas strength difference isnt really amazing since it isnt S8, thus isnt really better in most situations. And when it is, theyre probably fighting something they shouldnt be.
But they do 2flat damage and have an AP so they still shred through primaris.

But there is no reason to fully equip them with bigchoppas. Theyre tougher than boyz to kill but not by much so might as well save 25-30pts.

And of course, ALL their guns are worthlessly overpriced. Unless you talk index options and give'm kustomshootas for 2pts. 20pts for 40 shots 40 swings instead of 0 shots 50 swings is pretty dope. But, index only.

SemperMortis wrote:

 flandarz wrote:
The big thing keeping me from fielding MANz is that, while fairly durable, they don't deal much damage to anything. That -1 to hit from the Klaw really hurts them, and their ranged options are all pretty sub-par. And, honestly, with all the AP in the game, that 2+ Save isn't even that attractive either. They just have a lot of problems that make normal Nobz and Boyz better at anything you'd want them to do.

4 Meganobz = 140pts 5 Hellblasters = 165pts

5 Hellblasters WITH NO BUFFS, fire 5 shots at 30 or 10 shots at 15, without supercharging they hit 3.33 and 6.66 respectively and wound 2.22 and 4.44 which inflict 1.86 damage and 3.7 damage. If they super charge their shots its 3.33 and 6.66 hits still, 3.16 and 6.5 wounds which translate into 6 and 13ish damage. So those Hellblasters can basically wipe out a Meganobz squad at 15' range or kill half of it at 30' range. So much for durability, and as you mentioned flandarz, Units with that kind of -AP are not exactly rare in this edition.

MANz have 3 wounds each and Hellblasters do 2d overcharged. There will be overkill as it takes 2 hits to kill each nob. 5 HBs will only kill 2 and take one down to 1 wound in rapid fire range before getting mulched in CC

redboi wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

 flandarz wrote:
The big thing keeping me from fielding MANz is that, while fairly durable, they don't deal much damage to anything. That -1 to hit from the Klaw really hurts them, and their ranged options are all pretty sub-par. And, honestly, with all the AP in the game, that 2+ Save isn't even that attractive either. They just have a lot of problems that make normal Nobz and Boyz better at anything you'd want them to do.

4 Meganobz = 140pts 5 Hellblasters = 165pts

5 Hellblasters WITH NO BUFFS, fire 5 shots at 30 or 10 shots at 15, without supercharging they hit 3.33 and 6.66 respectively and wound 2.22 and 4.44 which inflict 1.86 damage and 3.7 damage. If they super charge their shots its 3.33 and 6.66 hits still, 3.16 and 6.5 wounds which translate into 6 and 13ish damage. So those Hellblasters can basically wipe out a Meganobz squad at 15' range or kill half of it at 30' range. So much for durability, and as you mentioned flandarz, Units with that kind of -AP are not exactly rare in this edition.

MANz have 3 wounds each and Hellblasters do 2d overcharged. There will be overkill as it takes 2 hits to kill each nob. 5 HBs will only kill 2 and take one down to 1 wound in rapid fire range before getting mulched in CC

LD 7, -3 so you also have a 1/3rd chance to have your last guy die from morale. Good point though. But again, if a squad can almost earn its points back in a single shooting phase then either the unit is OP OR and much more likely in this situation, the target unit is crap.