No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]

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**Jidmah**

Oi, ladz, da blue boy dere is lookin' for a fight. Let me get ma favorite choppa... Waaagh!

(Thanks for the battle report

)

**tneva82**

Quackzo wrote:
My gut says that boyz are the answer to plague bearers but also curious what other people think.

Haven't played much vs nurgle but last time I ran into plaguebearer horde from hell 2 mobs of orks and defftrike charaged in. 7 plague bearers survived. Albeit bit of luck as he rolled 1(1 dice rerolled) for morale meaning he got d6 more rolling 6 for that but still 30% chance he survived that morale test with his last daemon.

Bugger hell. Then came in bloodletters...

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jidmah wrote:
I don't know. In my recent games against marines, slugga boyz have been way better for me because they can actually clear out a unit of primaris meatshield, while a unit of shoota boyz has no chance of getting past a unit of intercessors or infiltrators.

Assuming you get to fight with 20 boyz, a unit of slugga boyz just barely manages to kill them, a unit of shootas simply wont.

As for scar boyz... I ran three units of 30 scarboyz on sunday, the extra strength did next to nothing. Against most targets, it simply doesn't make a difference (most T5 units get crushed under the weight of attacks) and they still suck at wounding T8 - even with Thrakka and Waaagh! Banner they just barely manage to do 5 damage to a PBC.

Instead of upgrading the three mobs, I should just have fought twice at some point during the game.

I mix 'em up. 30 boyz I never get to combat fully against semi sane opponent. 20 sluggas yes. Then 10 shootas to shoot at something else. With slugga boys you don't even dare to shoot often least you remove 1 or 2 models pushing your charge range further away anyway and rarely many worthwhile targets anyway.

**Jidmah**

My paint job kind of prevents mixing :|

Against primaris, I'll always shoot my sluggas, the chances of them killing enough models to increase the charge range is practically zero - you usually have two at them same distance from your boyz, and an extra wound or two on the units really helps.
Against anything less durable (even old marines), I agree.

**some bloke**

Emicrania wrote:
List in spoilers or we ll krump ya

suddenly remembered that about half an hour after posting! edited in now.

Had a little play in battlescribe for a couple of 1250pt armies to try out in a couple of weeks, as 2k is too big for the evening sessions (hence finishing on turn 3 last game!)

List 1:

Spoiler:

List 2:

Spoiler:

List 1 is about getting the meka-dread and wartrike behind/amongst the enemy turn 1, then mopping up with shoota boys etc.
List 2 is just to overwhelm the enemy with dreads. Mek waddles with them to give KFF cover. deffkilla gives his aura of advance-&-charge. Kans go in first wave, dreads in second.

thoughts?

**Jidmah**

List 1:
In my experience battle wagon boyz don't work well. You are better off just dropping the two wagons to upgrade both to 30 boyz, jumping one unit and tellyporting the other. Get more toys for the points saved.

List 2:
Make sure to grab the Dread Waaagh! specialist detachment for your army and put rokkits on your kanz. The shoot twice stratagem just barely make kanz useful. Grab the SSAG while you're at it.
If you have the bits, get two KMB on your dreads, you usually only need to re-roll on of the dice anyways, and you can get a lot more damage out of them as they move toward the enemy.
You could also drop a dread to make room for a Waaagh! Banner, he does wonders for walkers.

**Singleton Mosby**

gungo wrote:
So warhammer legends sounds like the deathknell of all the index options.

It’s the final book for them where they get points and rules that will never be updated again.

They are removed from competitive play and basically become narrative only if your opponent agrees.

So say goodbye to warboss on bike, Mek on bike, warboss in mega armor, burnas on kommandos, bombs on deffkoptas, painboy on bike, big Mek with kff and not mega armoir, and big guns... also no idea if the forgeworld stuff that is still in that index is becoming legends or not.

I will miss the Kustom shoota nobs. Had a lot of fun with these ladz.

**Mallich**

some bloke wrote:
wartrike + walkers. I have so many dreads & kans, and I'm just thinking about the idea of move, advance & charge. Having a unit of 5 killa kans move 7-12", then popping "ramming speed" to roll 3D6 for charge could do a hefty amount of damage.

Tiny, tiny correction: killa kans have the Gretchin keyword, and so you cannot target them with an ork Stratagem (such as Ramming Speed) unless the Stratagem "explicitly states so (e.g. the 'Grot Shields' Stratagem)". The Vigilus Defiant FAQ noted that you could use the "Dread Waaagh!, Kustom Ammo or Mek Connections" Stratagems.

**gungo**

flandarz wrote:
Only real things we'll miss are the KFF Mek and Biker Boss. Fortunately, the Wartrike is only slightly less point efficient, so not a huge deal there (aside from the lack of Killa Klaw), but now all our KFF options are prohibitively expensive.

Depending on how they do forgeworld zhardsnark might still be allowed (or pushed into legends as well). Which is kinda useful since another issue with the wartrike is it’s waaagh doesn’t work on infantry.

But you are right The biggest concerns are warboss and big Mek options...and making what people consider competitive lists just got a lot more cookie cutter.
I do expect a new character model for us though but I’m sure we will get a ghaz model as our new psychic awakening campaign model.

The other issues such as losing burnas and big choppa on kommandos and big bombs and mega blasta on deffkoptas are just about making those units more point efficient rather then competitive.

**Emicrania**

They really should make a new Ghaz that could be used also as a normal Warboss with MA and give him a point drop. 122 points for a model with no invu is fething idiotic

**Vineheart01**

Warboss in general needs an overhaul.

I'd love a multipart plastic kit like a LOT of other armies have for their HQ. Doubt they'd give him back the bike since the wartrike exists, but option for MA or possibly Jetpacks would be cool.
Really only need a special bosspole and unique head for Ghaz anyway. Anything beyond that they might as well revamp his rules to be a proper LoW

**flandarz**

It'd be pretty strange to actually have a GOOD LoW with Orkz. Might be a good reason to not just run triple Batts.

**Vineheart01**

Kustomstompa was pretty good before........because of a typo but thats another subject lol

**Tomsug**

Legends - honestly, I will be surprised, if there is no option with warbike boss and megaarmour boss under any kind of name soon.

Megaboss is simpl too cool and forgeworld has a very nice model of motoboss.

There will be new units in form of some CA or whatever or FW Index.

I hope... because i love and use a lot of index option. And orks without cheap kff, kommandos without index option and koptas without bombs are significantly nerfed.

**tneva82**

Emicrania wrote:
They really should make a new Ghaz that could be used also as a normal Warboss with MA and give him a point drop. 122 points for a model with no invu is fething idiotic

That would kind of demerit Ghazz though. Ghazz is supposed to be extraordinarily big for an ork. Suddenly having random warbosses who are same size kind of goes against point of Ghazz...

Especially if they suddenly scale up Ghazz. Having then random nobodies so to speak being equally huge just feels weird.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tomsug wrote:
Legends - honestly, I will be surprised, if there is no option with warbike boss and megaarmour boss under any kind of name soon.

All those will be. In legends. With frozen abilities and point costs forever and not recommended for tournaments(and invariably if tournaments follow that recommendation same will leak into non-tournament games as well)

**addnid**

I play ETC almost exclusively, so index options have been out since codex dropped... And I can tell you that once it gets into the habits that index options are dead, no one wants to have games anymore with these options...
Hopefully some circles are more open, but my suspicion is that for 90% of the playerbase, "legend = dead".
Especially as time will go on and new minis come out. Again, i hope I am wrong about this...

Honestly sell your stuff if you aren't too collector minded (I personally cannot sell stuff I have painted, dunno why really, lots of my stiff nearly never sees TT)

**Ratius**

I couldnt imagine running my list without the bigmek kff on bike

**tulun**

It's a bit unfortunate. There are clearly some index options that are just objectively amazing compared to the codex version (e.g... Warboss on bike vs Warboss, Big Mek vs MA Big Mek).

MA Big Mek can't even keep up with your infantry... pretty much makes him useless outside of turn 1 for WAY more points. My Big Mek doesn't need a 2+ save.

As someone said: Wazbom for KFF, unless MA Big Mek takes a huge dip in points? I guess just a walking Warboss for Da Killa Klaw.

It seems crazy there isn't a Warboss in Mega Armour. I can't imagine Ghazz would be the only one to think of it in the entire race.

Oh well.

**Emicrania**

Did they nerf the caladius tank?

**JNAProductions**

Emicrania wrote:
Did they nerf the caladius tank?

Yes.

Slightly more expensive, and went to S7.

**Emicrania**

And D2 instead of 3. They should been nerfed more but ah, whatever

**JNAProductions**

Emicrania wrote:
And D2 instead of 3. They should been nerfed more but ah, whatever

More points, dropping from S8 to S7 (which is a very key drop-point) and one third less damage...

I dunno, it seems enough to merit more testing, at least. Perhaps they didn't go far enough, but I'd rather a gentle touch than a sledgehammer.

**Vineheart01**

yeah its interesting to see slight nerfs rather than nerfhammers.
Pretty much any gaming company does this. Something underperforms, give it a gentle nudge that after 100x nudges might make it useful. Overperforms? Nerf it to oblivion and return with the gentle nudges later.

**JNAProductions**

Also, it's now...

4/9ths as effective against T8
1/2 as effective against T7
1/3rd as effective against T5 and T6 many-wound models

It is ONLY as effective against:

T1-3, T5 and T6 models with 1, 2, or 4 wounds and no FNP.

**Emicrania**

Which means It went from meta breaking to broke.

**Jidmah**

Don't know, it's now just another gun that does the same as everything else in the codex. Before it was something that custodes struggle to get anywhere beside from their jetbikes.

**Emicrania**

Is pretty resilient, can fly, shoot 60" on 2+ and have 14 W and -2" to charge them. 3 of them are a real pain in the ass.

**JNAProductions**

JNAProductions wrote:
Also, it's now...

4/9ths as effective against T8
1/2 as effective against T7
1/3rd as effective against T5 and T6 many-wound models

It is ONLY as effective against:

T1-3, T5 and T6 models with 1, 2, or 4 wounds and no FNP.

My math was wrong-I thought it went from D3 to D2, when it actually went from Dd3 to D2.

All that was affected, in terms of averages, are wound rolls.

**SemperMortis**

The loss of the Warboss on warbike is a huge blow to my tournament list. Not to mention that I Kustom made a model for that purpose :(

**flandarz**

You could always "reskin" him as Zhadnark, or as a Wartrike. I used one today in a 1k game and he did surprisingly well. Went Evil Sunz cuz the Wartrike relies on getting as close as possible to the enemy.

**Vineheart01**

Is Zhadsnark worth it? He's even more expensive than the wartrike. Granted he has a PROPER klaw atleast.