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2019/09/09 08:06:56
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
I ran SAG in one game and SSAG in another, and found the SSAG to be enormously superior, moreso than the double-shots would imply.
first game it did nothing, second game it was wiping out small units of elite infantry every turn. Works well vs primaris and the chunkier primaris dudes with oodles of guns.
I got lucky with shooting a vehicle but my advice is to focus on elite infantry, preferably those without invulns. Get at least 1 solid shot in clearing an elite unit with painful guns, and then go for the pot-shots. It's not really a knight killer, but it'll lunch any infantry on the field that doesn't have a 4++ or better.
12,300 points of Orks
9th W/D/L with Orks, 4/0/2
I am Thoruk, the Barbarian, Slayer of Ducks, and This is my blog!
So, I just came back from my first major and well, it went bad. Worst placing this and worst ITC scoring this year, 27th out of 104 with 145points and WWWLL. The meta was insane and i placed best ork player anyway ...
So basically, as my list is a mechanized freeboterz list a la Ben Jurek,
Spoiler:
First match up vs pure Chaos Knight
2 Crusader, 1 melee knight, 2 helverine, 1 FW close combat knight.
Kingslayer and Big Game Hunter.
I got first turn, i rolled hot, the dude was scared to death of the SSAG, so he deployed very bad, he splitted his forces and allowed me to kill 1/3 of the army per turn.
Tabled T3.
37-12
Second match vs Drukhari+Eldar fly spam.
Big Game Hunter, Recon, Marked for Death
Got to go second. Man... we played 3 turns in 3 hours because this dude was wasting so much time pausing and complaining and move stuff back and forth that I was going mad. He whiffed first turn with the jets, I whiffed second turn with everything but managed to have more board control and kill more a couple of turns.
Dice down T3
18-12
Third match vs Primaris smurf
Marked For Death, Headhunter, Recon
2 primaris tank, 5 aggressors, some interceptors, a whole bunch of character
I got first turn. He played 6 turns the chicken game, hiding behind LOS castle up and playing defensively. Really frustrating to play against. Gotta tell ya, those new primaris are a though nut to crack, 2+ 2W aint nothing to feth with. Also is funny as hell see marines players miss and call it bad luck , so accustomed to hit everything every time . Was a challenging match up where I had to keep board control, jump my SSAG in order to have some Line of sight and had to prioritize the aggressors T1 otherwise it would had been painful. Until T4 he was winning by some points and all i had left was a DJ , most of my gunz, the grots and 2 Weirdboy. Than i managed to kill the last repulsor and it was open season on the characters.
31-16
Now the first day is over and im feeling good and a bit tired. I go home and i basically i sleep nothing all night and have tremendous pain in the stomach. Flu, stress, bad food? Who knows.Not a good way to start the hardest part of a hard tournament.
Fourth match vs Successor White Scars (homemade chapter with cover outside 12" and +1advance and charges.)
Recon, Headhunter, Big Game Hunter
3 of the new scout Dreadnought , Relic contemptor , 20 intercessor, 3x5 scouts a bunch of character and 5 centurions.
This was the best and hardest and funniest match of the tournament. I got first turn.
The first part of the match, has been a disaster. He apologized to me for MY rolls. I whiffed E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G first 2 turns and did not take 1 save untill late T3. I was basically ready to roll over, but I wanted to play for the points hoping to get top 10. So I managed to get all my secondaries and when he whiffed charging my Morkanaut (which did 2!!!!!!!!!! Wounds on a Libby with 12 A S8 D2 -2 AFTER I interrupted) I managed to get all secondary. He came in T3 with centurions and managed to get bonus twice . I lost the game when my overcooked brain told me to ignore the lonely scout hiding in ruins and tried to snipe a chaplain with 2 W left. So what happen is that I gave a BGH in close combat whit the DJ, failed to kill more and that fething lonely scout run to get recon T6 for the whopping score of
27-30. One mistake made lose a great match.
Last match, I look at the list and I just lost it
Kingslayer, Titanslayer, Recon
3 Zombie Knight (3cp come back from the death on 4+,6 FNP, 1 CP go back to full bracket) rusty 16 and all 4 assassins. Yuck.
He got first turn. In hindsight I could have forced him to shoot only my orks thanks to deployment, but I was so exhausted mentally and morally that i did several mistake. This kind of match up you have to focus and play the mission. I took recon which was a bad decision because he would dominate the field, I left my SSAG in the open as he could just snipe with the vindicare. I lost the game before even start. Highlight of the game: I oneshotted a knight with my boosted dying warboss . he forced me to waste 4 CP with that fething assassin. He failed to raise the Knight from the dead, even with a reroll. I whiffed at killing 6 admech infantry with a 18 4+ S6 -1 DJ and the one that survived got his FNP and stayed to feth up my late game (again); my SSAG went on doing 6 D6 damage output and i rolled 10 DMG, and my morkanaut failed to kill a knight that blasted out my psychers and took off my Da Jump for late scoring. gakky match, boring opponent and horrible match-up.
32-25
All in all, I will not ever share a room during a Gt, I will play the game slower and probably play Steven Pampreen list next time. Honestly a good experience but they need to limit soups. Some people are gross. I have no problem going vs 3 or4 knights, It is gross going vs 4 knights with 14 Cp.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/09 08:30:34
2019/09/09 09:40:23
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Weazel wrote: Okay so the Super-SAG. People sing its praises here but is it that good? Got the model and did some trial runs on dice and mostly I ended up at 0-6 damage inflicted and one out of four trials was 20 damage (on a T7 vehicle). Was simulating with the Big Killa Boss trait. Anyway, what am I missing? Is it just a massive whiffing machine that absolutely wrecks stuff once in a blue moon? What are the top tricks to make it more reliable?
It's a lascannon with character protection in an army that doesn't have lascannons but really would like to have some. Just use it as such and cheer when it just deletes whatever it hits.
I was skeptical as well, as is just whiffed the first two games I used it. Then it killed about 800 points in a single game and then 45 the one after, but it took quite some wounds out of a couple of vehicles.
It's not a magic I-WIN button, but a lot of value for the 2CP and 80 points you are paying and it fits in an HQ slot.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2019/09/09 10:19:03
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Weazel wrote: Okay so the Super-SAG. People sing its praises here but is it that good? Got the model and did some trial runs on dice and mostly I ended up at 0-6 damage inflicted and one out of four trials was 20 damage (on a T7 vehicle). Was simulating with the Big Killa Boss trait. Anyway, what am I missing? Is it just a massive whiffing machine that absolutely wrecks stuff once in a blue moon? What are the top tricks to make it more reliable?
It's a lascannon with character protection in an army that doesn't have lascannons but really would like to have some. Just use it as such and cheer when it just deletes whatever it hits.
I was skeptical as well, as is just whiffed the first two games I used it. Then it killed about 800 points in a single game and then 45 the one after, but it took quite some wounds out of a couple of vehicles.
It's not a magic I-WIN button, but a lot of value for the 2CP and 80 points you are paying and it fits in an HQ slot.
Wait, 2CP? Isn't the detachment worth 1cp ?
7000+
3500
2000
2019/09/09 11:51:23
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
I don't understand. Why would you not make him your warlord ? SSAG is so much less effective without "big boss killa" (the +1 to wound vehicules/monsters warlord trait). Only very few lists have no monsters or no vehicules. In a tourney minded setting, the trait is autoinclude no ?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/09 12:18:16
Ere we go ere we go ere we go
Corona Givin’ Umies Da good ol Krulpin they deserve huh huh
2019/09/09 12:17:47
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Unless you spend 1 CP, only your Warlord can take a Shiney Gubbin. So, if you want to use the Super Shokk Attack Gun Gubbin, you have to spend 1 CP to do so, if he is not your Warlord.
2019/09/09 13:09:36
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Umm okay first off, there are some terrific Warlord traits for the SSAG Mek, why would you pass on them? Secondly, where does it say that only a Warlord can take Shiny Gubbins? Only thing I spotted is that if your Warlord is an ORK when you can give gubbins to Ork characters.
7000+
3500
2000
2019/09/09 13:13:47
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
flandarz wrote: Unless you spend 1 CP, only your Warlord can take a Shiney Gubbin. So, if you want to use the Super Shokk Attack Gun Gubbin, you have to spend 1 CP to do so, if he is not your Warlord.
Codex: Orks Page 130 wrote:If your army is led by an ORK Warlord, then before the battle you may give one of the following Shiny Gubbinz to an ORK CHARACTER.
Shiney Gubbin need not go on your Warlord, in the case of the SUSAG it's preferable to use it on your warlord.
Your warlord grants a FREE relic, not gets one. Otherwise if you had a named character warlord youre out a relic.
Also the SSAG kinda needs Big Killa Boss. That ability alone has been the reason the SSAG deleted something for me way too often.
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2019/09/09 14:45:56
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Is Big Killa Boss preferable to Opportunist?
While rerolling 1's is obviously nowhere near as good as +1 to Wound, the ability to snipe with a gun that can very seriously threaten characters has to be worth considering at the least?
WarOne wrote:
At the very peak of his power, Mat Ward stood at the top echelons of the GW hierarchy, second only to Satan in terms of personal power within the company.
2019/09/09 15:30:02
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
I'd say "no"on the SSAG. You have to be within 24" to use Opportunist, and that guy wants to be MUCH farther away, if possible. And, unless you tell poorly, there's not many <9 Wound characters out there that will be a great target for your vehicle murdering gun anyway.
Edit: I will say there are a handful of models with character protection this would be good for (like our own Ghaz), but generally? Probably not the best choice, unless your opponent is running only Infantry.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/09 16:23:12
2019/09/09 15:54:19
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Weazel wrote: Okay so the Super-SAG. People sing its praises here but is it that good? Got the model and did some trial runs on dice and mostly I ended up at 0-6 damage inflicted and one out of four trials was 20 damage (on a T7 vehicle). Was simulating with the Big Killa Boss trait. Anyway, what am I missing? Is it just a massive whiffing machine that absolutely wrecks stuff once in a blue moon? What are the top tricks to make it more reliable?
It's a lascannon with character protection in an army that doesn't have lascannons but really would like to have some. Just use it as such and cheer when it just deletes whatever it hits.
I was skeptical as well, as is just whiffed the first two games I used it. Then it killed about 800 points in a single game and then 45 the one after, but it took quite some wounds out of a couple of vehicles.
It's not a magic I-WIN button, but a lot of value for the 2CP and 80 points you are paying and it fits in an HQ slot.
Wait, 2CP? Isn't the detachment worth 1cp ?
1 CP for detachment and 1 CP for shiney gubbins, as you pretty much always want the relic klaw as well.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2019/09/09 16:25:32
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Opportunist has a 24" range, and no sane player is going to walk a character that close to a SSAG if he knows you have that trait.
SSAG's main reason it sticks around is due to its table reach, really the only way to deal with it is long range snipers or deepstrikers that got by the boyz. If it was trying to be within 24" it would have a lot more chances of something charging it.
though not saying its bad in overwatch lol. I had mine vaporize St Celestine's second life as she tried to charge it lol.
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2019/09/09 16:33:48
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Mozzamanx wrote: Is Big Killa Boss preferable to Opportunist?
While rerolling 1's is obviously nowhere near as good as +1 to Wound, the ability to snipe with a gun that can very seriously threaten characters has to be worth considering at the least?
I've had great luck running SSAG on a bike with opportunist. Very nasty combo that can absolutely ruin opponents plans. He pretty much needs More Dakka though since he will be on the move, so if you are funneling that to another unit like lootas you need to consider that. Use shoot twice stratagem and give him the ability to mulch 2 characters a turn within a 32" threat range. The dakka guns from the bike can do some work against lesser heroes too.
He also still gets reroll ones to Wound against vehicles which often gets forgotten about.
Keep in mind this is very much an index option, and I would not run opportunist on him without the bike, So buyer beware before you go converting one and he gets moved to legends right afterwards.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/09 16:43:32
2019/09/09 21:07:41
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
I guess you could da jump the opportunist SSAG to go suicide him to take an opportunistic shot. Probably more for a friendly game though
@redboi these days are very soon over, come join us ETC playing victims and cry rivers of salt, pain, and anger. Though SAG on biker big mek was very ludicrous, even by ork standards
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/09 21:10:51
Ere we go ere we go ere we go
Corona Givin’ Umies Da good ol Krulpin they deserve huh huh
2019/09/09 23:42:20
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
The wartrike would be a far better suicide warboss. Of which is still a very bad idea.
SSAG can always decide to just flop on you. My last game with it he was alive the entire game against a pure knight list. Finkrat never once rolled higher than 7 for strength and only rolled more than 7 attacks once. The +1 to wound prevented him from doing literally nothing, but in the end he did...14 damage? over 5 turns with 3 doubleshots used? yeah, ultimate bad luck.
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2019/09/10 05:01:37
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
I plan on running the dread waaagh! detachment with the SSAG mek as well as a couple gorkanauts and a morkanaut. When using the kustom ammo strat, is it going to be better to use that on the morkanaut or the SSAG, assuming both are alive? Some quick napkin math hammer suggested to me that the mork is going to average more damage against a T8 target than the SSAG, but the SSAG probably has more potential damage if you manage to get that 11+ roll for strength. Even so, I feel the mork is just a better target for the stratagem with the more consistent damage and the extra screen clearance ability thrown in from the big shootas.
Also, does anyone really use the moar dakka stratagem when you have no penalties to hit? Looking at the math it doesnt really look like a worthwhile use of 2 cp unless something is reducing your effective BS. Is it worth it to use it on the opening turn or two even without a minus to hit just to increase the potency of your alpha strike?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Actually, some more thorough math hammer shows that the SSAG should actually average more damage against a T8 target than the morkanaut. While previously I was just comparing the mork's average damage to the SSAG and assuming an average strength roll of 7, if you actually break it down by the damage of all possible strength rolls and average those out the SSAG comes out ahead.
Spoiler:
For those interested in the math, a SSAG mek with the big killa boss firing an average of 7 shots at BS 5 will get 2.722 hits including DDD.
It has a 16.7% chance of rolling a strength between 2 and 4, wounding on 5's and doing 3.172 damage
41.7% chance of rolling a strength between 5 and 7, wounding on 4's and doing 4.764 damage
13.9% chance of rolling a strength of 8, wounding on 3's and doing 6.345 damage
19.4% chance of rolling a strength of 9 or 10, wounding on 2's and doing 7.939 damage
and an 8.3% chance of rolling a strength of 11 or 12, wounding on 2's and generating d3 mortal wounds in addition to normal damage for an average of 12.475 damage
So the average damage of a SSAG mek with big killa boss shooting at a T8 target with no invulnerable save at BS 5+ is 5.978. clan traits will modify this of course. In comparison, the morkanaut firing at BS 5+ only averages 4.746 damage against the same target. So to answer my own question, unless you need some additional anti-chaff shooting from the mork, you should be popping kustom ammo on the SSAG.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/10 05:40:20
2019/09/10 06:37:57
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Mozzamanx wrote: Is Big Killa Boss preferable to Opportunist?
While rerolling 1's is obviously nowhere near as good as +1 to Wound, the ability to snipe with a gun that can very seriously threaten characters has to be worth considering at the least?
Why not take Big Killa on the SSAG and Opportunist on a regular SAG for some character hunting?
Vineheart01 wrote: Opportunist has a 24" range, and no sane player is going to walk a character that close to a SSAG if he knows you have that trait.
SSAG's main reason it sticks around is due to its table reach, really the only way to deal with it is long range snipers or deepstrikers that got by the boyz. If it was trying to be within 24" it would have a lot more chances of something charging it.
though not saying its bad in overwatch lol. I had mine vaporize St Celestine's second life as she tried to charge it lol.
At least my codex shows opportunist to be 18"...
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2019/09/10 14:08:24
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Oh, right, orks is 18 not 24 for their special auras unlike other codexes.
Always forget that. Course i rarely use them BECAUSE of that. Bloodaxe always in cover would be nice if it was 12" like every other "counts as in cover" rule.
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2019/09/11 08:03:00
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
In additon to his Flash Gits, Steven brought a battlewagon full of tankbustas, apparently to grenade things to death. He is also back to "just" 12 smashas.
Second place went to a guy a bunch of evil suns boyz and mobbed up bad moon shootas with smashas behind it. Probably going full tellyporta assault in T2?
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2019/09/11 13:50:45
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Wouldnt be surprised if smashas went up in points in the next CA, kinda the only thing in our codex thats shockingly good outside of relic-related shenanigans (which should be amazing)
Tbh, i prefer the traktors, but the price difference says otherwise lol
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2019/09/11 14:02:24
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
IMO the healthy thing to do would be increasing all mek guns' points and their shots.
This would reduce the money problem and reduce their insane durability (192 points for 30 T5 wounds plus overkill).
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2019/09/11 14:04:28
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
I'd agree to that.
A lone or pair of mek gunz isnt that hard to remove but...12? have fun with that.... especially since theres still other T7/8 vehicles floating around.
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
. Was a challenging match up where I had to keep board control, jump my SSAG in order to have some Line of sight and had to prioritize the aggressors T1 otherwise it would had been painful. Until T4 he was winning by some points and all i had left was a DJ , most of my gunz, the grots and 2 Weirdboy. Than i managed to kill the last repulsor and it was open season on the characters.
7000+
3500
2000 
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang. 
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
