Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

T1nk4bell wrote:
Minor? That's 60 % more dmg average in you're example

I'd agree that rolling 3 or 5 for damage is a big difference, but that's just the average on something with a large standard deviation.

The SSAG is the last weapon in the entire game you should judge on averages, considering that the actual result is based on 2d6+2d6x(4d6) (assuming invulnerable save), and that's not even factoring dakka³ and re-rolls into the complexity.

Bottom line, deff skulls is more likely to impact your SSAG as re-rolling to wound and damage is more valuable than re-rolling to hit, and you will get more re-rolls on average. However, if your SSAG whiffes shots/strength or if you put 30 wounds into some dreadnought, neither culture will have an impact.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 flandarz wrote:
Side by side, the Deathskullz is obviously better. What I mean is that Deathskullz might not be the best Kultur for everything else in that Detachment. Anything with more than 12 shots (like a Gorkanaut, Dakkajet, etc.) will be better served with Badmoonz. Running Deff Dreadz? You'll probably want them to be Evil Sunz. You can't take the SSAG in a vacuum, because you still have 1916 pts to spend on your list after that. Even with 3 Detachments, you're probably putting more than the SSAG, Grots, and a Weirdboy into the Dread Waagh (especially if you want options for your Kustom Ammo Stratagem).

Basically: the difference isn't high enough to gimp the rest of your Detachment over. The SSAG will perform just fine as pretty much any Kultur you tuck him into.

Deff dreads are best in deff skulls kulture though. For just dropping out of the sky and charging, nauts are much better, their niche is the dual kmb load-out, threatening hard targets and smashing a bunch of elite units while they are at it. Pure combat dreads don't have enough attacks and cost too much for what they bring.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 mikethefish wrote:

 flandarz wrote:
I run that at 1k and it's fine. As long as you're a bit miserly with your CP. But, yeah. 9 CP can get burnt real quick, depending on what you're running. Badmoonz Lootaz and a SSAG? You can expect to go through 6 CP a turn easy. Freebooterz Smashas and a Wartrike? You could probably end the game with CP to spare. Really depends on your load-out.

Fair enough - I won't post entire list but the gist is...

Evil Sunz' mono-clan 2000 pts. The main elements are 90 Boyz, a Gorkanaught, a Morkanought, a Wartrike with three Snazzwagons, and the usual assortment of Gretchin and HQ selections. I use no Index options - codex items only.

Before people say it, I do get that buggies are not optimal. My thinking is that they are basically certain to all get points drops in the new CA, so I see them as a sort of "investment" that will pay off in the fullness of time. And if they continue to be overpriced? Oh well - I just really like 'em.

The thing is, our entire army is "balanced" around burning through gretchin CP with powerful stratagems. Once your CPs are gone, orks very much feel like they have run out of steam. If you are running 90 boyz and some gretchin anyways, just bring a second battalion with 3 units of gretchin in them.

If want some more oomph in your list, I run my snazzwagon as Kustom Boosta-Blasta. Burna bombs = burna exhausts, mek speshul = rivet cannon. They are basically the same buggy, just one is way better.

Hi all can I get some feedback on this ork list it's my first attempted at a competitve ork list so I'm not sure on the clan kultur
I don't want to use any index options as I'm not sure how long there going to be around for anyway thanks for looking



++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Orks) [51 PL, 1,028pts]



[b]Clan Kultur: Freebooterz

+ HQ +

Kaptin Badrukk [5 PL, 84pts]

+ Heavy Support +

Flash Gitz [13 PL, 300pts]: Kaptin
. 9x Flash Git

Lootas [13 PL, 255pts]
. 15x Loota

Mek Gunz [6 PL, 93pts]
. Gun: Smasha Gun
. Gun: Smasha Gun
. Gun: Smasha Gun

+ Flyer +

Dakkajet [7 PL, 148pts]: 6x Supa Shoota

Dakkajet [7 PL, 148pts]: 6x Supa Shoota

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [30 PL, 623pts] ++



Clan Kultur: Deathskulls

+ HQ +

Big Mek in Mega Armour [6 PL, 119pts]: Kustom Force Field, Kustom Mega-blasta, Power Klaw

Weirdboy [3 PL, 62pts]

+ Troops +

Boyz [11 PL, 223pts]
. Boss Nob: Power Klaw, Slugga
. 29x Ork Boy W/ Shoota

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin

+ Flyer +

Wazbom Blastajet [8 PL, 159pts]: 2x Wazbom Mega-Kannons, Kustom Force Field, Smasha Gun

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [16 PL, 344pts, -1CP] ++



Clan Kultur: Deathskulls

Specialist Detachment [-1CP]: Dread Waaaagh!

+ HQ +

Big Mek W/ Shokk Attack Gun [4 PL, 84pts]: Grot Oiler, Shokk Attack Gun

Big Mek W/ Shokk Attack Gun [4 PL, 84pts]: Grot Oiler, Shokk Attack Gun

+ Troops +

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin

Gretchin [1 PL, 30pts]
. 10x Gretchin

+ Elites +

Mad Dok Grotsnik [5 PL, 86pts]

++ Total: [97 PL, -1CP, 1,995pts] ++

List in spoilers or we'll krump ya.

krump him!

I'm gonna assume your MA Mek is hanging back with the Smashas, so I won't address him too much. Still expensive, but with the loss of the regular Big Mek, not much you can do there.

My question is: you got a LOT of stuff that needs T1 closing with the enemy (Mad Dok, Badrukk, Boyz, Flashgitz) but you only got 1 way to get them there (Weirdboy). So, how are you planning to get them all where they need to be to be effective?

Freebooterz is kind of an "all or nothing" Kultur. A single Detachment of them isn't gonna do you a whole lot of good. I'd change it out for Badmoonz, so you can shoot twice with your Lootaz. You also probably want to have those Lootas in the same Kultur as your Gretchin. 15 Lootaz without Grot Shields is basically BEGGING for your opponent to kill them before they get to do anything.

Flashgitz and Lootaz fill the same role in your army. You really don't need both of them, especially since you have Dakkajets as well. Maybe drop one or the other and add in more Smashas (assuming you have more).

 Jidmah wrote:
List in spoilers or we'll krump ya.

I do like your signature line Jid

 Jidmah wrote:
Even if the BWs would become cheap as chips, the bigger issues that there are no units you would want to put inside them - their traditional passengers boyz, nobz, MANz and burnas all don't hit hard enough anymore, so there is not point in buying them an expensive transport.

It might be interesting to put a unit of Flash Gitz and their accompanying Grot shield grotz in it. That way you'll have 3+ Gitz and a protective unit of grots all at the same time when the BW is toast.

 Singleton Mosby wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Even if the BWs would become cheap as chips, the bigger issues that there are no units you would want to put inside them - their traditional passengers boyz, nobz, MANz and burnas all don't hit hard enough anymore, so there is not point in buying them an expensive transport.

It might be interesting to put a unit of Flash Gitz and their accompanying Grot shield grotz in it. That way you'll have 3+ Gitz and a protective unit of grots all at the same time when the BW is toast.

That is not a bad idea at all, although Steven's list take advantage of the Runtherd thanks to the multiple 30* grots.
But I could use it. I prefer having my SSAG freebooterz. So I can take advantage of the +1 to hit. Even if rolled 10 damage with 6d6 last tournament....

 Emicrania wrote:

 Singleton Mosby wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Even if the BWs would become cheap as chips, the bigger issues that there are no units you would want to put inside them - their traditional passengers boyz, nobz, MANz and burnas all don't hit hard enough anymore, so there is not point in buying them an expensive transport.

It might be interesting to put a unit of Flash Gitz and their accompanying Grot shield grotz in it. That way you'll have 3+ Gitz and a protective unit of grots all at the same time when the BW is toast.

That is not a bad idea at all, although Steven's list take advantage of the Runtherd thanks to the multiple 30* grots.
But I could use it. I prefer having my SSAG freebooterz. So I can take advantage of the +1 to hit. Even if rolled 10 damage with 6d6 last tournament....

I used it once so far and it worked quite well and makes the Flash Gitz quite survivable. Still pointwise I prefer to put them in a trukk.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I am attending my first GT in a couple of months from now. I don't expect to win, but hope to have some fun and not being completely useless.



I like my buggies and think they can work quite well in this setting because I only put vehicles on the table and everything in the list is fast. The oldscool buggy might suprise you. But at only 43 points it is a nie objective grabber and can lock down vehicles or weak infantry squads as well. They have been worth their points so far. The Big Trakk with Supa-skorcha is just something to try once. Not sure if it works but on paper it is quite nice.
Then there are the bustas in the Chinork. An awesome combination because of the warkopta's speed and ability to deepstrike from reserve withint Tankbusta range.

The buggy detachment are Deathskulls because the rerolls are to good to pass upon for the Scrapjets and the Shokkjump. I think they are just a little better then the +1 to hit for them. The 6+ invul is a nice bonus. It might be strange to put the Gitz in their detachment, but they are Freebooters anyway so that doesn't matter.

What do you think?

 Singleton Mosby wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Even if the BWs would become cheap as chips, the bigger issues that there are no units you would want to put inside them - their traditional passengers boyz, nobz, MANz and burnas all don't hit hard enough anymore, so there is not point in buying them an expensive transport.

It might be interesting to put a unit of Flash Gitz and their accompanying Grot shield grotz in it. That way you'll have 3+ Gitz and a protective unit of grots all at the same time when the BW is toast.

Yeah, flash gitz or a unit of tank bustas are fine, but that's painting a big bullseye on said wagon, plus they are really expensive. But you can't bring both because of their price tag and because you can't protect both with gretchin.
However, to make the battle wagon bash or a trukk list work you need to bring multiple transports which are about equally threatening to the enemy and equally valuable to you.
In 5th-6th boyz, burna boyz and nobz did that job, in 7th MANz and minimum tank-bustas became our go-to hard-hitting units. Right now, nobz and MANz both struggle to fight their way through a rhino, burna boyz are inferior to regular boyz despite costing more and 20 boyz fold the second you lose a single one to overwatch - even 19 scarboyz with banner and Thrakka behind them will regularly fail to take out a unit of plague marines or primaris.
The only other thing that works really well in wagons is Thrakka, and no one wants to be on the receiving end of a goff bonekrusha - I ran one in a 1500 points teaching game and it almost tabled the poor lad on its own.

In oder to have a proper mech orks list would have 3-5 BW, which can be switched out for two trukks or a naut. You also need a lot of points for this, so boyz as troops choice would be preferable over tax-only gretchin.
When you run the list, you basically have one wagon with thrakka, one with flash gits/tank bustas and one with something your opponent can easily ignore (nobz/boyz), two trukks with useless trukk boyz and a naut that mostly serves to draw all the firepower turn one and then dies or crawls across the board due to degraded movement. If the other wagons/trukks had the threat level of a naut or flash gits, the list would start working, as your opponent would have to target them, and gets severely punished if he doesn't, instead of killing naut => flash gits => thrakka and then mopping up the rest.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Singleton Mosby wrote:
I like my buggies and think they can work quite well in this setting because I only put vehicles on the table and everything in the list is fast. The oldscool buggy might suprise you. But at only 43 points it is a nie objective grabber and can lock down vehicles or weak infantry squads as well. They have been worth their points so far. The Big Trakk with Supa-skorcha is just something to try once. Not sure if it works but on paper it is quite nice.
Then there are the bustas in the Chinork. An awesome combination because of the warkopta's speed and ability to deepstrike from reserve withint Tankbusta range.

The buggy detachment are Deathskulls because the rerolls are to good to pass upon for the Scrapjets and the Shokkjump. I think they are just a little better then the +1 to hit for them. The 6+ invul is a nice bonus. It might be strange to put the Gitz in their detachment, but they are Freebooters anyway so that doesn't matter.

What do you think?

If that wazbomm has a KFF, it'll perform ok. Mind you, most of the stuff you have in your list is overcosted by 10-20%, so you might not have a real chance against fully optimized top tier lists.

MANZ struggle to kill a rhino?
A full squat without warpath, without double fight and without banner nob make average 16 dmg on a rhino. With warpath 22 ( two rhino's) and perfektly buffed ( very expensive)
Double fight +1 to wound deffskullz Banner nob and warpath its 74 dmg

T1nk4bell wrote:
MANZ struggle to kill a rhino?
A full squat without warpath, without double fight and without banner nob make average 16 dmg on a rhino. With warpath 22 ( two rhino's) and perfektly buffed ( very expensive)
Double fight +1 to wound deffskullz Banner nob and warpath its 74 dmg

350 points to take out a 70 point tank IS struggling and there is a good chance to still fail that. To be fair, I was thinking units of 5 MANz, as you wouldn't put 10 MANz in a BW because of passengers casualties.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/d55207/pandas_weekend_rundown_914915/

No top 4 placing orks this week, but NOVA GT was over 360 players, and there is an ork among the undefeated players who didn't score enough battle points to make it to the top.

Nu Marines show up a bit, mostly scouts+agressors+some sort of long-range shooting.

I still struggle to find a good place for MANz in my lists. In an infantry list, they die almost immediately due to all the AP weaponry, and in a vehicle list they're just so slow and lackluster in combat that I feel like I should have spent the points on another few Smashas or a Dread instead. Like, I get that they're real good at taking and holding Objectives, but that seems like all they're good for, and I could probably do better with just a Mob of Boyz.

 flandarz wrote:
I still struggle to find a good place for MANz in my lists. In an infantry list, they die almost immediately due to all the AP weaponry, and in a vehicle list they're just so slow and lackluster in combat that I feel like I should have spent the points on another few Smashas or a Dread instead. Like, I get that they're real good at taking and holding Objectives, but that seems like all they're good for, and I could probably do better with just a Mob of Boyz.

I've been dropping units of Nobz with big choppas instead more recently. For the cost of 4 MANZ, one with killsaw, I field 8 Nobz all armed with Big choppas and an ammo runt to soak up over watch.
I use them in the same battlefield role, in the teleporter until turn 2 or 3 then drop into to murderize some tough MeQ or primaris equivalent. They're a bit quicker, more attacks hitting at str 7 with 1ap and 2 flat damage is not to be sniffed at. They're melee autocannons. Like Lootas that have a guaranteed 3 shots, that hit on 3s instead of 5s.
At 150ish points, they're cheap enough to be used as a one hit wonder as I generally pitch them up against something they're going to smash, but I don't expect them to survive too long afterwards. But in cover, they can be surprisingly resilient.

That's actually a good idea. A unit of big choppa nobz might help me with all those primaris marines everywhere.

I'll try that during my next game against marines.

That does sound a lot better, and plays into the old Ork standby of "durability through abundance".

So the rumors are heavy we are getting a new ghazskull model soon... assuming he is a monster in combat and worth his points would he make a Goff detachment viable?
The competitive detachments have been deathskulls, badmoons, freebooterz, evilsuns for a while. I just don’t see Goff’s being worth much but ya never know.

 Jidmah wrote:
That's actually a good idea. A unit of big choppa nobz might help me with all those primaris marines everywhere.

I'll try that during my next game against marines.

The only sad thing is that they can no longer take shootas, it was always nice to plink off a few wounds from adjacent units, or help to clear away screens. Still, another 8 shots from the sluggas in the shooting phase whilst in combat can help too sometimes.

We had those rumors when the buggies were coming as well.
Didnt get it.

Possible to get him but they'd have to overhaul the gak out of him to make him viable. If they gave him a reroll aura i think people would go crazy over him

 Vineheart01 wrote:
We had those rumors when the buggies were coming as well.
Didnt get it.

Possible to get him but they'd have to overhaul the gak out of him to make him viable. If they gave him a reroll aura i think people would go crazy over him

If he had a built in "orks is never beaten", then he would be pretty buff as he stands now. But I think maybe they'll tweak his aura effect for the extra attack he grants, or maybe an auto pass morale check. Perhaps even a free teleport, or Skarboys? Who knows, it'd be nice to see him buff all klans, but maybe give something a bit extra to pure Goff to bring them up.

 Jidmah wrote:

T1nk4bell wrote:
MANZ struggle to kill a rhino?
A full squat without warpath, without double fight and without banner nob make average 16 dmg on a rhino. With warpath 22 ( two rhino's) and perfektly buffed ( very expensive)
Double fight +1 to wound deffskullz Banner nob and warpath its 74 dmg

350 points to take out a 70 point tank IS struggling and there is a good chance to still fail that. To be fair, I was thinking units of 5 MANz, as you wouldn't put 10 MANz in a BW because of passengers casualties.


Yea or fully buffed after telly Port they kill a 500+ point knight lke paper

Automatically Appended Next Post:
https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/d55207/pandas_weekend_rundown_914915/

No top 4 placing orks this week, but NOVA GT was over 360 players, and there is an ork among the undefeated players who didn't score enough battle points to make it to the top.

Nu Marines show up a bit, mostly scouts+agressors+some sort of long-range shooting.

To fully buff them after a Tellyport and kill a Knight, you'd need to:

1) clear all the chaff units protecting it.

2) already have Ghaz, a Weirdboy, and a Banner Nob within 6" (or so)of that Knight

3) make a 9" charge (8" if Evil Sunz).

4) hope that Knight doesn't kill enough of your MANz via Overwatch to survive your attack and stomp your MANz into the ground.

I'm sure it can be done, but if you're at the point where it becomes possible, you've probably already won the game anyway.

Give me some recommendations for this list lads, was wanting to add in another flyer and maybe a 3rd buggie. I just can't decide if I want a wazbom or a 3rd dakkajet, and whether I'd want to keep rolling with the flyboys theme and get a 3rd scrapjet or maybe try another buggie. I'd probably consolidate the boyz into one big group and get rid of the trukks to make room for points. I was also debating putting the wartrike into my vanguard, making him my warlord and giving him the finkin cap for brutal but kunnin' and might it right, and using another big mek w/ SAG for my outrider HQ.



I guess as a note, I'm trying to avoid index options as much as I can, just because I don't own any of the indexes

/e
I just noticed after I posted I forgot to put the battalion as a specialist detachment for the relic SAG

Do you want optimization recommendations, or just some advice on how to play that list?

A bit of both really, I don't really plan on entering a tourney anytime soon but most of the people I play with tend to use competitive lists, some for the sake of practicing for tournaments. I also just thought of asking before I spent money on more models lol

Main thing I see is that you should probably drop the PK, Power Stabba, and Big Shootas from your Boy Mobs. In almost every situation, you'll be better off spending those points on more Boyz. Drop one Mob down to 10 models, and get the other as close to 30 as you can. That way you can Mob them up and Da Jump them somewhere that'll scare your opponent. Alternatively, just go with 1 30 Boy Mob, so you can Greentide them in when they take causalities.

Take a couple of Ammo Runts with your Nobz, to eat the explosion when your opponent pops the Trukk. Maybe use Evil Sunz for that Detachment instead of Blood Axes, since it's so CC heavy.

Don't see a whole lot else to critique here. Outside of a tournament setting, it should play just fine.

gungo wrote:
So the rumors are heavy we are getting a new ghazskull model soon... assuming he is a monster in combat and worth his points would he make a Goff detachment viable?
The competitive detachments have been deathskulls, badmoons, freebooterz, evilsuns for a while. I just don’t see Goff’s being worth much but ya never know.

I wouldn't count on a new Ghaz, the source for that rumour claimed another bunch of things that have been proven false (Marine supplement releases every 2 months, Salamanders and IF next releases). It's very likely bull gak.

Not to mention the next big thing is the whole psyker thing, which every faction is supposed to get something for.

I would find it unlikely Ghaz would be the ork part of that. If anything beyond simply a lethal weirdboy (i.e. one that can actually do something other than cast a spell) we'd be getting good ol' Zogwort back finally.
Highly doubt he will have his squigify ability but one can hope

I'd be happy with another Psyker option. Ooo! Or Mad Boyz! Those would be neat.

I don't think a new unit (if the faction is lucky enough to receive one) necessarily has to be related to psychics and psykers at all. The first releases for this campaign are Banshees, Jain Zar, Incubi and probably Drahzar. Not exactly psychically focused units themselves.