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russellmoo wrote:
I think flashgitz are overpriced mainly due to them having a gun that is heavy. If it was assault 3 rather than heavy 3, they would be worth their points, as they would be able to start in your deployment zone then move into range without penalty, or telyport in without suffering a to hit penalty.

I think you can still use them but only in a list that forces the opponent to come to you.

Also, with the effect iron hands is having on the meta, along with a few other marine builds, (the doctrine that treats ap1 as ap 0) means that I can see players shifting away from ap1 d2 lootas to units that have more ap, and/or damage.

I find that the heavy is mitigated by the freebooterz keyword. Having 8/12 gunz shooting at something, usually give the back 4+. Also Badrukk. And I never moved them more than once in my 5/6 playtest.

For making flashgits work, I've had great success in running them in a trukk. I have run 7 of them in a trukk in 3 games now, and in all 3 they have done a fair share of the damage.

I usually aim to get the trukk lined up with some fairly central ruin cover which it can fit into, if possible, and move it in on the first turn. Gits hit on 6's this turn, and there's usually a lot of more pressing seeming things to kill on turn 1, so they tend to make it to turn 2. At that point, anything your trukk can see is the target of all the gits - there's no risk of having to move one of them to see - and they tent to smush some ripe heavy infantry unit. Then the trukk gets shot, I loot it, and the gits sit in cover with a 2+ save. by this time, the grots have walked and caught up, and I have a shield from anything too powerful, if I don't need it elsewhere. it's worked as a pretty solid tactic so far. The trukk also means that the gits can spend a turn to relocated if they find themselves lacking targets or in the wrong place. The whole unit takes a fair bit of killing to nullify the threat (last game had just the squad leader with 1 wound left, but he killed off a character with his shooting!) so as long as you build a list where ignoring another element of your list is suicide (bonebreakas and a wartrike, I tend to use) then people will have to overlook the gits in favour of not being run down by bonebreakas.

I've contemplated taking a full unit of 10, but it comes in too expensive for my liking. 5 just can't deal the damage, but 7 seems like a good number to me. a nice balance of killy but not too expensive.

I'm running them on foot, let's see how the tournament goes. If I have them by side of the Battlewagon with the tankabusta I might pull off the loot it shenanigans

 Emicrania wrote:
I'm running them on foot, let's see how the tournament goes. If I have them by side of the Battlewagon with the tankabusta I might pull off the loot it shenanigans

Good Luck! IMHO it's rarely worth looting it on gitz unless they are in cover - in the open, a 3+ save multi-wound bullet magnet isn't going to fare much better than a 4+ save one.

You could perhaps jump them into the wagon if the Tankbustas want to jump out and pop the grenades strat on something, to keep the gits alive a bit longer. I can't wait to pull off that stratagem on something big!

Are will still having success with full freeboota lists? Considering the following build:

What are your plans for this? You have 2 weirdboys but only 1 unit worth jumping.

I'm assuming the 'orkanaughts move forwards turn 1 and are protected by the wazbomm, and then you're aiming for a turn 2 charge with them? Or are you planning on tellyporting them in?

If you want to footslog the 'orkanaughts, you could try to squeeze a deffkilla wartrike in to get them closer. I've had successful turn 2 charges with deff dreads and a wartrike. just don't expect him to do any damage to anything that can fight back, or he will die! his whole role is to make dreads and all other vehicles faster, so use it!

I've run a very similar list and it can be effective. The shokk attack guns are incredibly dependent on the +1 to hit but everything else can get by without it. Shove your nauts into the dreadwaagh so they can access the Strat to shoot twice!
Be cautious on relying on the kultur. Your opponent will try to deny you triggering it as much as they can.
A good Strat is to try and trigger it first with mek guns (duh) and second try using the dakkajets. Be careful with their positioning so they're not too far to spread the love. Dakkajets simply have killy potential without any buffs.
Also you have enough points left to squeeze in an extra boy.

 some bloke wrote:
For making flashgits work, I've had great success in running them in a trukk. I have run 7 of them in a trukk in 3 games now, and in all 3 they have done a fair share of the damage.

I usually aim to get the trukk lined up with some fairly central ruin cover which it can fit into, if possible, and move it in on the first turn. Gits hit on 6's this turn,

Gits are BS4+, they hit on 5s when moving, the kaptin hits on 4s. Typo?

Maybe. What I find weird is that the Kaptin hit better than Badrukk ...

Well, Badrukk's "Flashiest Gitz" ability puts them just about on par with each other. He's also better in CC with a 2+ and 5 attacks, all around tougher (more Wounds, better Save, 5+ Invuln), and has a better gun.

But, really, the Kaptin *should* shoot good. Freebooterz are extremely competitive. You think that Kaptin is gonna let the other Gitz shoot better than him? Ha! And that's why Badrukk don't take no Squig. Who's gonna compete with him? He's already da flashiest Git and anyone who thinks otherwise is gonna take a krumpin'.

As for using Loot It on your Gitz: might as well. It only costs ya 1 CP and, if your vehicle is going down anyway, you might as well force your opponent to fire his heavy stuff at ya if he wants to take you down.

No gitz in wodyjoe's list. Freebooterz without gitz is like... something without something.

 Jidmah wrote:

 some bloke wrote:
For making flashgits work, I've had great success in running them in a trukk. I have run 7 of them in a trukk in 3 games now, and in all 3 they have done a fair share of the damage.

I usually aim to get the trukk lined up with some fairly central ruin cover which it can fit into, if possible, and move it in on the first turn. Gits hit on 6's this turn,

Gits are BS4+, they hit on 5s when moving, the kaptin hits on 4s. Typo?

damn, actually I was just wrong. I thought they have +1 to hit if they don't move, for some reason (making them 4+). Might be a hangover from the past. Might just be me being a derp.

I played it wrong last game, won't happen again!

They still seemed to do OK for you, so you basically got a free buff now

 Jidmah wrote:
They still seemed to do OK for you, so you basically got a free buff now

Quite so! always good to find a unit is better than you were running them (like when I realised bonebreakas have +3 to hit rolls, and not +3 to hit rolls (IE I added 3 dice and hit on 5+,rather than hit on a 2+). I also forgot their +D6 attacks for charging! D'oh!).

Next time I run bonebreakas and flashgits, they will do so much better! (and now I've said that, expect them to vacate the board on turn 1...)

 flandarz wrote:
Issue with FGs is that you kinda hafta go "all in" with them, or they'll always seem lackluster. And making them the focus of your list means you can't really bring anything else that relies on Grot Shield for protection, since they're too expensive to leave out in the open. Their mediocre range and Heavy weapons can also be an issue.

Put 10 Flash Gitz and a unit of grotz in a Battlewagon. Mobile bunker and when it blows: the grotz die, you Gitz get 3+ sv and have their own portable grot shield with them.

 some bloke wrote:
I also forgot their +D6 attacks for charging! D'oh!).

Stuff like that happens too often for my as well. Forgetting the 6++ for Deafskulls for an entire game. Or -1 to hit for most of my Nids army for an entire tourney

Forgetting the extra D6 on the charge is literally forgetting why its a bonebreaka lol. A standard wagon with rolla is exactly the same as a bonebreaka, minus the mandatory 'Ard Case, has 8 more crew slots, and the extra D6 attacks.
I actually prefer the regular wagon with rolla. D6 doesnt like me, i swear every time i roll a D6 for random shots/strength/damage i roll low as hell (the amount of times my SSAG has rolled Str3-4 and 4-5 shots is irritating) so naturally my luck with that is in the Bonebreaka too...i almost never got more than 1-2 more attacks, but sacrificed the unit inside's shooting to get it.
With choppy Nobz/MANz, no big deal since shooting isnt their job. Boyz, gitz, or tankbustas...thats kinda their reason to exist so i want them to shoot. Being T7 does kinda blow but against most armies it honestly makes very little difference to me to be T8 instead, since im getting hit with the same S9 weapon anyway or theres reroll wounds so while i cut some shots off, in the end i still die just as quick.

Besides, they arent the main focus of the army. Theyre the distraction. I want them to look more vulnerable than the actual threats.

 Weazel wrote:
Umm, pretty sure my codex says Zog Off! Dis is ours! is only for TROOPS. Am I mistaken or has this been FAQ'd or whatever?

It is. Zog Off is just another term for objective secured.
Death Skullz gives Zog Off to every infantry unit, which makes MSU / Elite builds on Death Skullz viable.

Evil Sunz and Death Skullz are probably the best Kultures for mono-builds, if you build them right. The traits they provide are just so versatile and useful, that you don't really need to soup, imo.

Evil Suns? Free bootas much more likely.

Evil suns don't benefit most shooting units(including bikes and buggies), and you really need some dakka to survive in 8th.

Agreed. Evil Sunz is basically the quintessential soup Kultur. Them and Bad Moonz. As for Freebooterz... well, if more armies fielded MSUs of weak Infantry, they'd be in a lot better place. They still almost require that you go Mono, but so many lists just shut down their Kultur benefit.

Deathskullz is really the best Kultur, in my eyes. No matter what kind of list you're going for, it has something for you. It might not be the best choice for every unit and playstyle, however.

 Jidmah wrote:
Evil Suns? Free bootas much more likely.

Evil suns don't benefit most shooting units(including bikes and buggies), and you really need some dakka to survive in 8th.

I disagree. Being able to advance and shoot assault weapons with no penalties is pretty useful if you are playing aggressively, and assault weapons are really common in the ork codex.
Free Bootas are nice, but you have to kill a unit first to get the buff. Which might not always happen.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 flandarz wrote:
Agreed. Evil Sunz is basically the quintessential soup Kultur. Them and Bad Moonz. As for Freebooterz... well, if more armies fielded MSUs of weak Infantry, they'd be in a lot better place. They still almost require that you go Mono, but so many lists just shut down their Kultur benefit.

Deathskullz is really the best Kultur, in my eyes. No matter what kind of list you're going for, it has something for you. It might not be the best choice for every unit and playstyle, however.

Eh, it depends. I find DeathSkullz work best if you have a lot of powerful, single shot weapons. So Rokkit Launchers, KMB, ect.
If you have a lot of RoF assault weapons they don't work as well as you can only reroll 1 die and those weapons tend to be damage 1 too, so you're better off going Evil Sunz or Bad Moonz.

They do work best in those lists. But if you have the least Deathskull optimized list, you can still enjoy 1 reroll for hit, wound, and damage, a 6++ Save, and Obsec on all Infantry. That's why I say it's the best. Other than Snakebitez (which I consider to be the worst Kultur) and Freebooterz (which can get shut down at the list building step), no other Kultur offers benefits which are good no matter what you're playing or doing.

Freebootas in general i always viewed as an all or nothing kulture. Flash Gitz followed by Badrukk can get away with being in other kultures usually, since he basically gives them the Bad Moonz kulture anyway, but if you take anything else as Freebootas i just feel obligated to make EVERYTHING that.
Mostly because orks being so random you cant guarantee the +1 triggers. More units to trigger it, more likely your big hitter gets the bonus before he fires.
My only real beef with Freeboota is their kulture actually suffers to -1 shenanigans, while the others sorta dont care for the most part. And i face a lot of eldar/harlies so -1 or even -2 is pretty common. Being forced to keep most of your army in a 24" bubble is more of a nuisance than a problem since any random boyz you send ahead, lag behind, or try to flank are probably only in range of 1-2 other units if any, so they wont get the kulture bonus most of the time.

I just acquired my brother's ork models and as I'd like to get back into 40k (last played in 3rd ed), what are the must-buys (apart from boyz) at the start?
From the models I have I made a 1k points list, what did I forget or should add?


The list is made from models I currently have, I've read about a special shokk attack gun but couldn't find anything in the Kodex, which book do I need?
I was also sad to see that I can't really use my looted Leman Russ anymore, can I just play it as a Gunwagon or will people be confused?
Any starter help is welcome

The Souped Up Shokka is a special detachment found in the Vigilus book, forget which one exactly.

Literally all it is is spend 1 CP to make a detachment a Dread Waaagh! and you can replace a regular SAG with a Relic variant following normal relic rules (or shiny gubbinz as we call it). Souped Up Shokka is literally the SAG with 2D6 shots, nothing else different.
That detachment also confers a couple of stratagems but only one is worth mentioning: Kustom Ammo. Lets the Big Meks, Killa Kanz, Deffdreadz, or Gork/Morkanauts fire a second time for 2cp if they are apart of this detachment.

Looted Leman Russ can be used as a Gunwagon and nobody should be all that confused, either that or a Supa Kannon from Forgeworld. Only two things orks have it really could be anyway.

As for "Must Buys" its drastically up to your way of playing preference. In general, go all-in on vehicles or dont even bother touching them at all. The old saying "Boyz before Toyz" is not valid anymore, i often sacrifice my boy numbers and do fine.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Evil Suns? Free bootas much more likely.

Evil suns don't benefit most shooting units(including bikes and buggies), and you really need some dakka to survive in 8th.

I disagree. Being able to advance and shoot assault weapons with no penalties is pretty useful if you are playing aggressively, and assault weapons are really common in the ork codex.
Free Bootas are nice, but you have to kill a unit first to get the buff. Which might not always happen.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 flandarz wrote:
Agreed. Evil Sunz is basically the quintessential soup Kultur. Them and Bad Moonz. As for Freebooterz... well, if more armies fielded MSUs of weak Infantry, they'd be in a lot better place. They still almost require that you go Mono, but so many lists just shut down their Kultur benefit.

Deathskullz is really the best Kultur, in my eyes. No matter what kind of list you're going for, it has something for you. It might not be the best choice for every unit and playstyle, however.

Eh, it depends. I find DeathSkullz work best if you have a lot of powerful, single shot weapons. So Rokkit Launchers, KMB, ect.
If you have a lot of RoF assault weapons they don't work as well as you can only reroll 1 die and those weapons tend to be damage 1 too, so you're better off going Evil Sunz or Bad Moonz.

The to hit wound and damage always gets talked about the most but that 6++ is equally important and can play a part even for the units that are high RoF. Many times I get a heavy hitter in combat with my gork/mork and I usually save my rerolls for the gork in the assault phase but when the smash captain hits you and you save 1 or more hits due to that 6++ it is worth it. Lascannons also against unKFF'd units tend to make that unit rely on that 6++.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Freebootas in general i always viewed as an all or nothing kulture. Flash Gitz followed by Badrukk can get away with being in other kultures usually, since he basically gives them the Bad Moonz kulture anyway, but if you take anything else as Freebootas i just feel obligated to make EVERYTHING that.
Mostly because orks being so random you cant guarantee the +1 triggers. More units to trigger it, more likely your big hitter gets the bonus before he fires.
My only real beef with Freeboota is their kulture actually suffers to -1 shenanigans, while the others sorta dont care for the most part. And i face a lot of eldar/harlies so -1 or even -2 is pretty common. Being forced to keep most of your army in a 24" bubble is more of a nuisance than a problem since any random boyz you send ahead, lag behind, or try to flank are probably only in range of 1-2 other units if any, so they wont get the kulture bonus most of the time.

Yeah, its also very luck dependent and honestly I feel like Freebooterz get weaker as the game goes on, as there is less and less to kill with and less to actually kill as well, since I noticed most of the casualties are taken in the first 3 turns. The other kulturs aren't as dependent and their abilities being constantly on makes them more consistent to play.

 Grimskul wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Freebootas in general i always viewed as an all or nothing kulture. Flash Gitz followed by Badrukk can get away with being in other kultures usually, since he basically gives them the Bad Moonz kulture anyway, but if you take anything else as Freebootas i just feel obligated to make EVERYTHING that.
Mostly because orks being so random you cant guarantee the +1 triggers. More units to trigger it, more likely your big hitter gets the bonus before he fires.
My only real beef with Freeboota is their kulture actually suffers to -1 shenanigans, while the others sorta dont care for the most part. And i face a lot of eldar/harlies so -1 or even -2 is pretty common. Being forced to keep most of your army in a 24" bubble is more of a nuisance than a problem since any random boyz you send ahead, lag behind, or try to flank are probably only in range of 1-2 other units if any, so they wont get the kulture bonus most of the time.

Yeah, its also very luck dependent and honestly I feel like Freebooterz get weaker as the game goes on, as there is less and less to kill with and less to actually kill as well, since I noticed most of the casualties are taken in the first 3 turns. The other kulturs aren't as dependent and their abilities being constantly on makes them more consistent to play.

I feel like towards the end of the game the opposite is true. At the end you should have less models and so should your opponent yes, but those units should be whittled down to where it makes them easier to proc. ( the only difficulty being that your units are also damaged)

Depends on whats left.
If its a handful of tac marines, yeah they'll die easily.
If its a dread that he's manage to keep alive and well after your anti-tank is gone, it'll be a problem.
Any T7+ is a major thorn if all you got left is small arms with at most -1ap

To add to what Vine said, by end game, you've likely already burned through your easy procs. So you're more likely to have tough, hard to take down, units left to deal with than a whittled down unit that you can get your +1 from.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Evil Suns? Free bootas much more likely.

Evil suns don't benefit most shooting units(including bikes and buggies), and you really need some dakka to survive in 8th.

I disagree. Being able to advance and shoot assault weapons with no penalties is pretty useful if you are playing aggressively, and assault weapons are really common in the ork codex.

Lootas, wazzbom, SAG and tank bustas all don't benefit from advancing and shooting at all, bringing none of these units makes you unable to compete unless you are going full tide - which will auto-lose if your opponent asks for a chess clock.
If do you bring these, your army will always be better if you just shift them to bad moons or deff skulls.
Evil suns primarily benefit melee units arriving from deep strike(boyz, nauts, dreads) and secondary fast units that could pull off first turn assaults (deffkilla, bonebreaka, warbikes, buggies).

Free Bootas are nice, but you have to kill a unit first to get the buff. Which might not always happen.

Still, it works for all units in your army as it can trigger in both combat and shooting and it becomes more likely if your entire army is of that trait.
While it's not as good as mono deff skulls or clan soup, it's still better than any of the other clan runs when running a mono-clan army.

Eh, it depends. I find DeathSkullz work best if you have a lot of powerful, single shot weapons. So Rokkit Launchers, KMB, ect.If you have a lot of RoF assault weapons they don't work as well as you can only reroll 1 die and those weapons tend to be damage 1 too, so you're better off going Evil Sunz or Bad Moonz.

Bad moons only outperform deff skulls on weapons with 12 or more shots, as even for 1 damage weapons, you get a re-roll on both hit and wound. On units like scrapjets, dreads and nauts you even get to double-dip since you can get the re-rolls when shooting and when fighting.
So we are looking at lootas, shoota boyz, warbikers, tank bustas, dakkajets and some of the buggies where the re-roll ones really outperforms deff skulls double re-roll. The main reason to pick bad moons is Showin' Off since it turns 2 CP into 200+ points of shooting and multiplies with any other stratagems you drop that unit - and since you can only do that once, it's best done as part of a clan mix.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Amorphium wrote:
I just acquired my brother's ork models and as I'd like to get back into 40k (last played in 3rd ed), what are the must-buys (apart from boyz) at the start?
From the models I have I made a 1k points list, what did I forget or should add?

Spoiler:

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Orks) [53 PL, 999pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Clan Kultur: Deathskulls

+ HQ +

Big Mek W/ Shokk Attack Gun [4 PL, 80pts]: Shokk Attack Gun

Warboss [4 PL, 72pts]: Ard as Nails, Attack Squig, Big Choppa, Kustom Shoota, Warlord

+ Troops +

Boyz [11 PL, 233pts]
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Power Klaw
. Ork Boy W/ 'Eavy Weapon: Big Shoota
. Ork Boy W/ 'Eavy Weapon: Big Shoota
. 27x Ork Boy W/ Slugga & Choppa

Boyz [11 PL, 233pts]
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Power Klaw
. Ork Boy W/ 'Eavy Weapon: Big Shoota
. Ork Boy W/ 'Eavy Weapon: Big Shoota
. 27x Ork Boy W/ Shoota

Gretchin [4 PL, 78pts]
. 26x Gretchin

+ Elites +

Nobz [7 PL, 103pts]
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Power Klaw
. Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa
. Nob: Big Choppa, Choppa

+ Fast Attack +

Warbikers [7 PL, 105pts]
. Boss Nob: Choppa, Power Klaw
. 3x Warbiker: 3x Stikkbombs

+ Heavy Support +

Deff Dread [5 PL, 95pts]
. Deff Dread: Big Shoota, Big Shoota, Dread Klaw, Dread Klaw

++ Total: [53 PL, 999pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

For 1000 points this is decent enough, just make sure to put your deff dread into the tellyporta for 2CP so it doesn't need to cross the board (and die in the process). Make sure your warboss gets the killa klaw relic, it's the difference between just scratching the paint and flipping a tank.

The list is made from models I currently have, I've read about a special shokk attack gun but couldn't find anything in the Kodex, which book do I need?

The souped-up shokka relic, along with the other ork specialist detachments can be found in Vigilus Defiant.

I was also sad to see that I can't really use my looted Leman Russ anymore, can I just play it as a Gunwagon or will people be confused?

I don't think anyone would give you trouble over running it as a gunwagon.

Any starter help is welcome

In general, orks rely on a very specific sets of tools to do well, players straying too far from those best practices tend to get curb-stomped my other armies.
1) Orks have one of the best collections of stratagems in the game, therefore you want to have as many CP as possible. You archive this by running minimal battalions, consisting of nothing but 3 units of 10 gretchin and two HQs. In general, gretchin = CP.
2) In order to survive, you need to be able to kill dangerous things as soon as possible, so you definitely need some shooting. SAGs (even multiple), dakkajets and wazbomm blastajets, lootas, tankbustas, mek guns and flash gits do well in this area. For starters, you should probably go for lootas, as they are the easiest to pilot out of the bunch - drop any damage increasing stratagems you have (More Dakka, Wreckers) on them and use a command point to re-roll the number of shots when you roll a one.
3) Boyz are primarily used by flinging them into your opponent using a weirdboy with da jump. By doing this you can have unit of boyz in your opponent's face turn one and force him to handle them instead of shooting your valuable stuff. Also make sure to use the Endless Green Tide stratagem to replenish your boyz. In general a weird boy with da jump is a very valuable asset, as he can get orks where you need them almost instantly, plus he can dish out some pretty mean smites and other buffs. I suggest not getting the official model (unless you manage to snag a metal version somewhere), but scratch-build one, get one of the AOS shamans or a third party model.
4) Have a look at the first post of this thread - I update it regularly and there are some tournament lists there for inspiration.