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Yeah lot of people think the stompa is super-duper old like its the literal first giant model or something.
Its not. It looks like its one of the earliest non-gorkamorka style designs, since the grots in it look like current grots.

They are a little under twice a baneblade right now. Dunno bout you, but 2x baneblades for ~100pts more than 1 stompa sounds way scarier. Local guard player uses a baneblade (forget which variant) all the time and that thing is the bane (HA) of my existence if i roll bad on the SSAG

I admit the Stompa is a bit big for regular 40k, but its existence also means we wont get anything between it and a Naut because....why would we? Naut basically is our knight w/o being a knight (which imo makes it BETTER than an orkified knight would be, since its not LoW). It exists, its not a Titan, so i want to be able to use it. Not asking to be able to use it in 1500pt games, but 2k-4k i should be able to without feeling like i cut half my army out for little gain.

 Jidmah wrote:

 flandarz wrote:
That's a fair point, but I'm under no delusions that a Burna Trukk is optimal. I'm just making an argument that it's viable. Ie: is it dangerous enough to divert fire from your Buggies, Smashas, and Gitz?


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And, if not, is it gonna be able to lay down some hurt on your opponent for ignoring it?

Ok, let me put it in another way. For 240 you now get 3 KBB which have 12 burnas built in, plus three rivet guns and more wounds. That's strictly better than a burna trukk.

In any case, burnas are a unit which doesn't function on any point value, as they are just a sidegrade to ork boyz minus all the advantages of being troops (CP, filling mandatory slots, obsec). Any time you bring them, you can just replace them 1:1 with boyz and have a superior army.

At which point your question becomes: Would anyone shoot a unit of trukkboyz over buggies, smashas or gitz? Of course they won't.


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Orkimedez_Atalaya wrote:
I am actually Ok with the stompa price. It's an outdated model with a quality design according to its time. Having a profile for narrative is cool, otherwise it should not stomp a tabletop, too much out of scale.

I disagree. It was released at the same time as the plastic baneblade and should be just as viable.

Which is another model that's, IMHO, out of what it should be the scale of a normal 40k battle. Although less evident than the stompa.

Baneblade and variants has aged better. Again, personal opinion.

i just realized.
All the buggies dropped quite a bit except the Wartrike apparently? Thats.....
So the wartrike is now the most expensive buggie and easily the weakest overall punch-wise but it has that aura. Ugh... orks paying through the nose for the ONE aura we have (which also explains why the boss isnt cheaper, since outside that aura he is pretty gak)

I 100% forgot the KBB has Burnas too. Yeah. You're right. A real shame, that is.

On the positive side, we can field real competitive Speed Freekz armies now. Get your CP Dread Waagh Battery (with 12 Smashas), and pair it with 3x units KBBs and Scrapjets and a FG Trukk and that's pretty nasty. Pretty sure you'll have at least 500 pts after all that to spend on other stuff too. That's pretty good.

I have given the squig buggy another read and I think it might just be worth 100 points. I guess I'm going to get one and try it out. Worst case, it's a scrapjet proxy

I really can´t immagine a working buggie list at competitive level. I might buy one of each because rule of cool, but really that is all there is on the buggy ATM, we ll see in PA4. But my hopes are pretty low.

Im assuming the only Squig you'd fire is the Boom Squig.
2D3 BS4+ shots and D3 BS5+ shots S6 AP1 D3D at 36" feels like its best option. Which...isnt much.

Awhile ago i misread how that thing is loaded out and thought each of its crew had that squiglauncher, not the crew as a whole. So i gave it literally 5x the guns and it still performed like crap for me lol.
It has the same issue the Snazzwagon has, though not quite as badly. The weapon profile is just not that interesting, it'd need a stat boost or an INSANE price drop to be worth it. Even post-buff i dont see why you'd run a Snazz over a KBB, theyre pretty similar outside the Snazz has -1 to hit (but offset by 4+ kaboom death)

So I’ve made my second Ork list. Not meant to be super competitive but hopefully competent enough for some good, fun games? I mainly fight Ultras, Custodes, DG, Tyranids and soon Sisters.

I think the 4+ Explode and -1 to hit are good reasons to field the Snazzwagon. You can get it pretty close range for shooting and charge it in to deal some MWs when they fight it. But I agree that it doesn't quite measure up to our other Buggies. Sacrificing 100 pts to have a 50% chance to deal D3 MWs ain't exactly a winning strategy.

I love the idea that orks would just strap explosives to a vehicle so when it inevitably blows up they make sure its a BIG boom.
Snazzwagon feels like they were going that route but D3 mortals doesnt really do enough to justify sacrificing it. Flat3 or D6 would have made it worth it (risky since if it blows up on your half...oops)

I don't know if I missed something. But I listened to some dude reading the fw section.
The chinork warkopta dropped to 74 points?
Killtank 365
Squiggoth(regular) dropped to 160
They added the warboss on warbike for 95

If these were already in play, nevermind I'm no fw gamer

Basically, I feel they'd work best in a Buggy heavy list, where you goad your opponent into shooting them instead of your more useful vehicles.


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Isn't the Chinork already only like 68 pts?

Hmm.

Guess it’s time to field lots of flash gitz. How do we keep them around?

The biggest complaint is they are short ranged and are kulture locked. Even if you took a freebootas detachment, how are you keeping the Grots in position / alive?

I have no idea how only the FA stuff basically got a drop. Orks have way more issues.

Nids also got very few point reductions, and gen cult got some very odd price hikes. Just to say Orks probably got it better than bugs, and I feel their PA will be much better than the bug one (which is not bad, it is just not enough in the current meta)

addnid wrote:
Nids also got very few point reductions, and gen cult got some very odd price hikes. Just to say Orks probably got it better than bugs, and I feel their PA will be much better than the bug one (which is not bad, it is just not enough in the current meta)

Hear ya. Just sad when the imperium gets candy and hookers and blow. Xenos get hosed.

But yeah this is overall a minor buff. It could have been worse.

I think we did alright, honestly. So far it looks like the Smasha only got a 2pt hike, and I think that was the only increase. If we make it out of a CA with 50% pricedrops, I'd call that a win.

We got a lot of drops that I feel are gonna shift our competitive lists, and therefore what our opponent will need to expect from us. That's a good thing.


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I just realized how cheap Dreadz are now. 75 pts (with 4 Saws) gives you 8 T7 3+ Wounds. For less than the price of a Gork, you could field 4 of them and have 32 T7 3+ Wounds. That's some real good value.

Orkimedez_Atalaya wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
That feels really weird only having 2 wargear options change, especially since a lot of them are overpriced.
NONE of our characters dropped? good grief... or bikers? least nobbikers might be enticing now.

Either way, super glad to see buggies and koptas drop. Still not sure if i wanna use Koptas since Rokkits are 24pts still but i dont feel like im wasting points now using them.

Also stompa only -50 LOL good one gw...

I am actually Ok with the stompa price. It's an outdated model with a quality design according to its time. Having a profile for narrative is cool, otherwise it should not stomp a tabletop, too much out of scale.

Bikers are a big let down. I was expecting a minimum drop to 20. Nob bikers at 33 are still too much.

Sorry but those are noob reasons for artificially making rules bad. There#s no excuse for artifically making rules broken/too weak and that's one of the most ridiculous reasons.

Also out of scale? In case you have been living under rock for decade big models is now all the fuzz in gw games.

 flandarz wrote:
I think we did alright, honestly. So far it looks like the Smasha only got a 2pt hike, and I think that was the only increase. If we make it out of a CA with 50% pricedrops, I'd call that a win.

We got a lot of drops that I feel are gonna shift our competitive lists, and therefore what our opponent will need to expect from us. That's a good thing.


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I just realized how cheap Dreadz are now. 75 pts (with 4 Saws) gives you 8 T7 3+ Wounds. For less than the price of a Gork, you could field 4 of them and have 32 T7 3+ Wounds. That's some real good value.

It's probably worth spending the extra 5 points on 1 Klaw; it upgrades 3 attacks to do flat 3 damage (which is good for certain marine units).

I think that's 85 or 90 points though, not 75.

I was wrong anyway, Saws are 10pts, not 5. So it'd be 95 per for the 4 Saws, or 100 for 3 Saw and a Klaw. Still not awful, but my bad math made it a LOT better. Haha!

Do people think this will shake up the our competitive lists? Is a mecha buggy spam cheap enough to maybe work?

Deff Dreads are good and all, but I'm not sure a 10 point cheap Deff Dread is really enough for tourney play. I love the models, though, so I'll probably toss them in occasionally.

I think our Buggies are REAL good now. Even if just for durability, 80pts for T6 W8 Sv4+ ain't bad.

Why is the skorcha 17 points when it has the same exact profile as the heavy flamer which is 14 points?

id say 3 of the 6 buggies are awesome now with Snazz being....acceptable but still meh and Squig being terribad.
Wartrike only good because its an HQ and that aura, like before, still sucks on its own.

 flandarz wrote:
I think our Buggies are REAL good now. Even if just for durability, 80pts for T6 W8 Sv4+ ain't bad.

I just own a Megatrakk and that thing has done *work* in my games. I just don't really play against the craziest BS out there.

I guess you could legitmately field something like 9 buggies for ~900 points now? I suppose that could be extremely annoying and even have quite a bit of firepower. It could also provide roadblockers to some of our more fragile units.

 flandarz wrote:
I think the 4+ Explode and -1 to hit are good reasons to field the Snazzwagon. You can get it pretty close range for shooting and charge it in to deal some MWs when they fight it. But I agree that it doesn't quite measure up to our other Buggies. Sacrificing 100 pts to have a 50% chance to deal D3 MWs ain't exactly a winning strategy.

The snazzwagon's explosion has d6" range though, negating the increased chance to explode with a chance to just explode 1 or 2" and not actually hitting anything.

The KBB works because of the rivet gun, and sometimes you can finish off things with the mortal wounds from the ram. All other guns are situational and might not actually kill anything over the course of the game. The snazz wagon has a worse gun with less range, no ram and costs the same. The -1 to hit is all but irrelevant, as no one would ever bother to shoot it, even left alone and shooting at optimal targets it will be unable to contribute to your game in a meaningful way.


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masterhobo wrote:
Why is the skorcha 17 points when it has the same exact profile as the heavy flamer which is 14 points?

You can't fire heavy flamers after advancing. Whether that's worth 3 points is another discussion.

really annoyed they still havent pricedropped the base battlewagon price on Supakannon/Liftadroppa wagons.

Supakannon is so close to being good but at ~210pts its on the "its bad" side of the fence. Had it got that 40pt base price reduction other wagons got it would be amazing.
Not a single FW model went down for us. All the "changes" were carried over from last year.

oh my bad. I didnt notice that the skorcha was assault.

To be fair, the Snazzwagon gets more shors with its gun, and against MEQ the S difference is negligible (but I'll admit the difference between 1 and 2 damage is a high hurdle) and they're both so fast the difference between 24" and 36" will likely never come up. It also has slightly better grenades.

What a Snazzwagon does better than a KBB is area denial. It's tougher to kill at range and riskier to kill in CC. It may not kill a whole lot, but three of them lined up can easily deny a quarter of the board to your opponent (assuming a proper amount of terrain).

Is it optimal? Probably not. But you could probably find a use for it in your army and not regret the decision. If you HAD to choose KBB or Snazzwagon, I'd also choose the former every single time, but I ain't gonna be mad if I bring both. I've had Snazzwagons win games by just sitting on an Objective and being a pain to remove from it.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
...Not a single FW model went down for us. All the "changes" were carried over from last year.

Does CA usually include FW weapons, or does FW issue their own points lists independently?

What are the buggy tiers now we think?

Seems like the Dragsta and Megatrakk are still the best of the bunch.