No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]

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**operkoi**

With the buggy buff does Kult of Speed become more useful/viable

**Vineheart01**

Not really.

Kult of Speed is mainly for 2D6" consolidation and the doublemovement advance. Which buggies and koptas kinda dont care for. They are mostly gun platforms and have the speed to reach a vast majority of targets w/o the extra speed, and of the Speedfreaks only bikers care about the consolidation thing.

**SemperMortis**

tulun wrote:
flandarz wrote:
I think our Buggies are REAL good now. Even if just for durability, 80pts for T6 W8 Sv4+ ain't bad.

I just own a Megatrakk and that thing has done *work* in my games. I just don't really play against the craziest BS out there.

I guess you could legitmately field something like 9 buggies for ~900 points now? I suppose that could be extremely annoying and even have quite a bit of firepower. It could also provide roadblockers to some of our more fragile units.

I have 3 Scrapjets, I would gladly give up the Big shootas if it dropped the price 20pts. At that point value I might take them in competitive events, but as it stands, the 20pt tax for bigshootas just kills the unit's value. The fact that yet another year has come and gone and GW still can't figure out that the Big shoota is useless and that Rokkitz are overpriced is mind boggling, not to mention the 800pt Stompa....that is just a slap in the face, a 50 pt drop on the Stompa means that GW figured the Stompa was only about 5% over priced for what it brings to the table, let that sink in. Nobody takes the Stompa AT ALL in games unless its super fluffy because its a Massive piece of crap and GW goes "What if we dropped its price by 5% how about then?" You can tell me all day and night about how smart GW is with design and rules and playtesting but the fact is that they have released so many obvious bombs over the years that its not believable.

**T1nk4bell**

Vineheart01 wrote:
KMB option was index only and all index stuff is Legacy when that becomes a thing.
So for the short time being, its still legal to KMB Kopta, but i think Legacy goes into effect when CA19 drops. I think, anyway.

But yeah, i dont see why bikers exist right now.

Koptas are 30pts w/ twinbigs. Seeing as how Koptas have lower model max, cant really compare max vs max.
Max koptas is 5 models, so 150pts for 5 T5, 4W models with 4+ save and 10D3 S4 attacks in melee, with the option for Killsaws (not sure if i'd bother with that or not). They are Vehicles so Ramming Speed, innate psuedo-deepstrike (14" of boardedge limitation), and still can use Exhaust Clouds. Theres also the added benefit of while the gun is the same RoF and strength it has twice the range, so unlike bikers they can actually AVOID the things that instaspork them.
5 Warbikers by comparison is only 115pts but half the wounds, no deepstrike, no ramming speed, only the Nob can take klaw instead of any of them (granted, its stronger, but this unit shouldnt go after things only a klaw can reliably hurt anyway), and only 12 S4 attacks + 4 S5 attacks (w/ no klaw).

Koptas at that price feels like a nice backfield anti-deepstrike deterrent, with the speed and Fly allowing them to immediately jump to the front line if needed. They still hate autocannons, but it takes 2 hits to kill them instead of 1, and for a 7pt difference...that matters a lot to me.
Might be time to finally finish painting my gakton of AOBR koptas. Think i have 14 of them and only 4 are in playable condition, 3 painted lol

edit: Also Koptas auto-advance 6, something i really dont understand why bikers dont get. That urks me so much when i use my bikers that i need to advance them and i roll a zoggin' 1...

Koptaz are Max 10 not 5
And melee they have str 5 attacks not str 4
And well they fly

so they Cann fallback and shoot
And a 10 model squat koptaz with warpath gain 10d3 attacks extra

so 30d3 str 5.
Bikers are obsolet now totaly
And don't forget they have pistols too

**Vineheart01**

Deffkoptas are not a 10max squad, the codex says max of 5.
You are right they are Str5 though, i forget their spinnin' blades is +1 str.
Warpath is a decent option to eek more attacks out of them but given the range between the two (since weirdboyz are slow and usually dont even get halfway across the board before dying) i wouldnt expect that to happen very often.

**T1nk4bell**

Aw you're right 5 max dunno where I was.
Ye totaly but same for biker and warpath.
I rly think there is no point to use bikers

**Orkimedez_Atalaya**

T1nk4bell wrote:
Aw you're right 5 max dunno where I was.
Ye totaly but same for biker and warpath.
I rly think there is no point to use bikers

Basically this. Koptas with big shootas are the new bikers. A unit of 5 at 150 pts is a good deal. A pitty rokkits are still overcosted.

**Jidmah**

Bikers are useful for tying up enemy models T1 with a 100% chance of success, plus they are durable enough to stay there for multiple turns as non-combat experts lack the means to get past 2W/T5/4+.

They basically fit the same role as storm boyz, but require at least 3 CP to do so.

**tulun**

T1nk4bell wrote:
Aw you're right 5 max dunno where I was.
Ye totaly but same for biker and warpath.
I rly think there is no point to use bikers

Nobs w/ Big Choppa, Choppa on warbike are now 38 points. That probably hits quite a bit harder than the deff kopta (no infiltrate for free, though...). Maybe there's some way you could make that work? 3 str 7, ap -1, D2 attacks + 1 str 5 attack (and they still have 6 Big Shoota Shots). Averages same number of attacks. I'm not sure that's worth 8 points, though.

The regular warbiker really seems obsolete, though. It's a bit crazy they didn't adjust them down. You're getting the Deff kopta at 7.5 points per wound vs 11.5 for the warbiker, and the deff kopta infiltrates and averages 1 more attack per round at a higher strength. And they fly so they can skirt screens.

SemperMortis wrote:
I have 3 Scrapjets, I would gladly give up the Big shootas if it dropped the price 20pts. At that point value I might take them in competitive events, but as it stands, the 20pt tax for bigshootas just kills the unit's value. The fact that yet another year has come and gone and GW still can't figure out that the Big shoota is useless and that Rokkitz are overpriced is mind boggling, not to mention the 800pt Stompa....that is just a slap in the face, a 50 pt drop on the Stompa means that GW figured the Stompa was only about 5% over priced for what it brings to the table, let that sink in. Nobody takes the Stompa AT ALL in games unless its super fluffy because its a Massive piece of crap and GW goes "What if we dropped its price by 5% how about then?" You can tell me all day and night about how smart GW is with design and rules and playtesting but the fact is that they have released so many obvious bombs over the years that its not believable.

At least 6 of the shots hits at BS4. But yeah, I agree. Big Shootas are overcosted and it feels bad to take them. They either need ap-1 to help, become cheaper, or get even *more* shots. Apparently none of that is happening.

**Vineheart01**

There something im missing that makes bikers more likely than koptas to get a T1 charge?
Koptas have auto 6" advance, bikers dont, and the Wartrike aura affects them both. What other factor is there?
They both move 14" and have 'ere we go. In fact the Koptas could get there faster because of Ramming Speed making a 10-12" charge pretty reliable

The only downside to koptas is heavy hitting attacks will hurt them harder than the bikers, since any individual attack can only kill 1 model. But outside dedicated melee thats usually limited to the stuff firing at our tanks, walkers, and now buggies.

As for bigshootas, GW probably feels theyre balanced because of their counterpart, Heavy Bolters, are 10pts and are Heavy with Ap1, same otherwise.
In a vacuum, a 5pt drop for losing the AP and gaining Assault is worth it. Except in reality the bigshoota is also half as likely (roughly) to hit so....that cost is negated because we need to take more of it to get the same number of wounds on average, ending up in actually costing significantly more.
The vehicles i run usually have multiple bigshootas either by default or wtf else am i gonna do with 15-20pts anyway. Its gotten to the point with me where whenever i fire my naut's bigshootas i go "And heres the waste of time shots....yup they mostly missed...3 wounds ap- oh you passed them cool moving on.." i swear they only cause damage every like 5 times i fire them, and even then its only 1-2 wounds
Bigshootas desperately need to be 2pts or 6shots or get an AP, but sadly doesnt look like thats ever gonna happen now.

**tneva82**

Oguhmek wrote:
They're running out of space marines to pit against them, so Necrons will probably be left out, just like in the Vigilus campaign.

Or, no I know, they'll be pitted against Imperial Knights, who will get an awesome new knight variant with psychic powers, and the Necrons will get... uh, a one-use relic with a 4+ chance to deny the witch, or something.

Anyway, it would be weird if orks got anything else than a plastic Weirdboy IMO, given the theme and all, but then on the other hand, Ghazzy hears the voices of Gork and Mork so there is some connection there too, so those rumors (which I always thought were wishlisting) might have some truth to them. Too bad he's locked into Goffs. This with the klans is nice and all, but it kinda annoys me that special characters are always locked in to one specific subfaction.

Despite being called psychic awakening it's not all that psychic stuff. Eldars had nothing psychic related, black templars aren't psyker thing, most of chaos rules weren't psychic related..

**tulun**

Evil sun Deff Koptas have an *insane* charge threat range if you have a wartrike nearby, and crazy even if you don't. Good lord.

16" move, 7 advance (from FAQ they get the plus 1) w/ Wartrike, and then a 11.5 average charge with rerolls with Ramming Speed. You can probably make that 12. Means a 35" charge is probable... and they fly.

Even if they don't have a wartrike, that's still a 27.5 average charge range (round up to 28 since that's likely with rerolls). Impressive. Take even 3 or so for 90 points, seems well worth it?

**gungo**

Still find it silly kommandos are losing big choppa when FW still makes the kit. Also the burna option is the only viable way to use that model.

Still keeping big mek w kff and warboss on bike is great.

**Tomsug**

Deffkoptas - I love these bastards for about a year already and now they become really funny. You say 35” charge turn 1? You are wrong. You can make them Kult of Speed via vigilus and they have 16+16 move and charge with trike and ramming speed is 32+11,5 = 43,5” T1. And than Drive by Krumpin for 1CP and another 16” move away. And drop the index bomb on the way btw.

And maximum is not 15. Maximum is 30. Take 15 evil sunz shootas and 15 ds rokkits.. I see 2 brigades deffkopta lists on the horizont

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Pure codex only kommandos is a sad story. With burnas and big shootas, it was fun to kitbash and fun to play. Codex kommandos = boyz with barets... boringů

**SemperMortis**

gungo wrote:
Still find it silly kommandos are losing big choppa when FW still makes the kit. Also the burna option is the only viable way to use that model.

Still keeping big mek w kff and warboss on bike is great.

I was a huge proponent of Kommandos at he start of 8th, but since last year I haven't really used them. Still brings a smile to my face though when I think about having 90 Kommandos magically appear in charge range and joined by 30 da jumped boyz. My opponent always just sat there flabbergasted as 120 Boyz just popped into being in charge range

.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tomsug wrote:
Deffkoptas - I love these bastards for about a year already and now they become really funny. You say 35” charge turn 1? You are wrong. You can make them Kult of Speed via vigilus and they have 16+16 move and charge with trike and ramming speed is 32+11,5 = 43,5” T1. And than Drive by Krumpin for 1CP and another 16” move away. And drop the index bomb on the way btw.

And maximum is not 15. Maximum is 30. Take 15 evil sunz shootas and 15 ds rokkits.. I see 2 brigades deffkopta lists on the horizont

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Pure codex only kommandos is a sad story. With burnas and big shootas, it was fun to kitbash and fun to play. Codex kommandos = boyz with barets... boringů

My Koptas are going to be making an appearance in the next tournament I go to. I currently only have 12 but I'll bring them all in

. 360pts for 3 squads of FS units that can charge turn 1 and more importantly, drop that index bomb for extra dakka.

**Tomsug**

Yeahhh! Plus the Old AOBR model is really great. I have 30 of them already. Time to paint them...

**tulun**

Tomsug wrote:
Deffkoptas - I love these bastards for about a year already and now they become really funny. You say 35” charge turn 1? You are wrong. You can make them Kult of Speed via vigilus and they have 16+16 move and charge with trike and ramming speed is 32+11,5 = 43,5” T1. And than Drive by Krumpin for 1CP and another 16” move away. And drop the index bomb on the way btw.

And maximum is not 15. Maximum is 30. Take 15 evil sunz shootas and 15 ds rokkits.. I see 2 brigades deffkopta lists on the horizont

I guess you might be able to string a unit of 5 back and keep coherency? Because your wartrike is only going 23".

**popisdead**

An Actual Englishman wrote:
Ghaz is literally referred to as the Beast by Orks and man too.

Well so was a collective of Warlords in a novel series.

Vineheart01 wrote:
Bigshootas desperately need to be 2pts or 6shots or get an AP, but sadly doesnt look like thats ever gonna happen now.

Yes and sadly yes.

tneva82 wrote:

. Eldars had nothing psychic related,

They got an entire lore to replace the crappy smite Warlocks got. plus most the casts are 4 and there is a way to turns 1s into 2s so you always cast?!? Not sure how that is nothing...

**Jidmah**

Vineheart01 wrote:
There something im missing that makes bikers more likely than koptas to get a T1 charge?
Koptas have auto 6" advance, bikers dont, and the Wartrike aura affects them both. What other factor is there?
They both move 14" and have 'ere we go. In fact the Koptas could get there faster because of Ramming Speed making a 10-12" charge pretty reliable

You are missing the Kult of Speed detachment - you can advance 28" with that and then charge with a deffkilla or warboss within range (due to the size of biker mob, usually not a problem). With their bases and numbers, arresting a unit is a trivial matter, while koptas are just 5 round bases. I did that in my battle report to arrest a unit of intercessors and they were unable to free themselves despite having a powerfist in the unit.

**tneva82**

popisdead wrote:

They got an entire lore to replace the crappy smite Warlocks got. plus most the casts are 4 and there is a way to turns 1s into 2s so you always cast?!? Not sure how that is nothing...

Ah right. Anyway models were not psyker related so no reason orks can't get multiple non-psyker releases. Orks are unlikely to get new model outside PA book(gw doesn't do generally random model releases) and we now know for sure there's big mek w/kff incoming.

**Orkimedez_Atalaya**

After learning the title of the PA that will cover orks and seeing what happened to nids (40 pages of BA and 9 of nids), I would not get our hopes to high.

Saga of the beast, refers to both SW and orks, but guess who is telling the tale.

I am also somehow excited to field 5 koptas for 150.
Buggies as distractions seem to be fairly priced now. A pitty warbikers are out of question.

**T1nk4bell**

Well 18 pages of blood angels are Standart primaris data sheets so not more news for BA than for nids

**An Actual Englishman**

popisdead wrote:
An Actual Englishman wrote:
Ghaz is literally referred to as the Beast by Orks and man too.

Well so was a collective of Warlords in a novel series.

I'm aware, as can be seen from the rest of my post that you presumably failed to read;

An Actual Englishman wrote:

I've mentioned this before but in my head canon Ghaz actually conquers the galaxy in our current timeline then is sent back in time by our lads Gork and Mork to find more fights. He gets sent to post Heresy pre 40k setting (35k?) and becomes the Beast of the books as we know them. Thus becoming responsible for our klans as they are now. So Ghaz & the Beast are one and the same.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Orkimedez_Atalaya wrote:
After learning the title of the PA that will cover orks and seeing what happened to nids (40 pages of BA and 9 of nids), I would not get our hopes to high.

Saga of the beast, refers to both SW and orks, but guess who is telling the tale.

I am also somehow excited to field 5 koptas for 150.
Buggies as distractions seem to be fairly priced now. A pitty warbikers are out of question.

Agreed on all points. We might get a bone thrown to us but it'll be Vigilus level stuff, perhaps one decent relic from the book and that's it.

It is a shame on warbikes too, what a waste of a CA.

**flandarz**

CA wasn't too bad for us. One point increase (and kind of a joke increase at that, considering the Smasha is still real good at that cost), and a lot of solid decreases. Of course, there are things like the Stompa and Burnas which are just silly, but all in all we did well.

**Jidmah**

An Actual Englishman wrote:
Agreed on all points. We might get a bone thrown to us but it'll be Vigilus level stuff, perhaps one decent relic from the book and that's it.

It is a shame on warbikes too, what a waste of a CA.

It's safe to assume that we will get no more than the following
- 6 Warlord Traits
- 6 Relics
- 6 Stratagems
- Build your own Waaagh!

We might get a new ork model (KFF mek/Thrakka), but we also might not, considering that there is already a rumor for primaris Logar and currently the expected amount is 1 model per PA.
If we are lucky, they'll throw in a psychic discipline, but I doubt that.

I reserve the right to ridicule anyone expecting more.

**tneva82**

Well. There's big mek w/kff dataslate coming and gw isn't releasing new datasheets like that without model. So either way that's coming up soonish

**Jidmah**

There is a slim chance that they just don't want to antagonize the people who bought the fethed up finecast model even more by invalidating that model four years later.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
There is a slim chance that they just don't want to antagonize the people who bought the fethed up finecast model even more by invalidating that model four years later.

**Orkimedez_Atalaya**

Any rumours on when Legends will be released?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Any rumours on when Legends will be released?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jidmah wrote:
An Actual Englishman wrote:
Agreed on all points. We might get a bone thrown to us but it'll be Vigilus level stuff, perhaps one decent relic from the book and that's it.

It is a shame on warbikes too, what a waste of a CA.

It's safe to assume that we will get no more than the following
- 6 Warlord Traits
- 6 Relics
- 6 Stratagems
- Build your own Waaagh!

We might get a new ork model (KFF mek/Thrakka), but we also might not, considering that there is already a rumor for primaris Logar and currently the expected amount is 1 model per PA.
If we are lucky, they'll throw in a psychic discipline, but I doubt that.

I reserve the right to ridicule anyone expecting more.

I think Mork and Gork psy disciplines will be a thing. Don't expect anything more creative.

I would also expect a way to customize your klan.

**addnid**

flandarz wrote:
CA wasn't too bad for us. One point increase (and kind of a joke increase at that, considering the Smasha is still real good at that cost), and a lot of solid decreases. Of course, there are things like the Stompa and Burnas which are just silly, but all in all we did well.

Well so many of our gak units will stay gak, so that is a pity. especially because our good units are still as good... So basically the whole internal balance shift opportunity which could have enabled us to change what we bring to a tourney was missed. A total missed opportunity i would say. But yes orks were not nerfed at all. Everyone who didn't want things to change can be relieved...

**Vineheart01**

Jidmah wrote:
Vineheart01 wrote:
There something im missing that makes bikers more likely than koptas to get a T1 charge?
Koptas have auto 6" advance, bikers dont, and the Wartrike aura affects them both. What other factor is there?
They both move 14" and have 'ere we go. In fact the Koptas could get there faster because of Ramming Speed making a 10-12" charge pretty reliable

You are missing the Kult of Speed detachment - you can advance 28" with that and then charge with a deffkilla or warboss within range (due to the size of biker mob, usually not a problem). With their bases and numbers, arresting a unit is a trivial matter, while koptas are just 5 round bases. I did that in my battle report to arrest a unit of intercessors and they were unable to free themselves despite having a powerfist in the unit.

That detachment is for Speed Freaks though. Deffkoptas can use it too.
Though i'll admit nowhere near as big a footprint. Especially with the extra-wide base man theyre a big footprint, almost too big to KFF properly