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https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/12/04/warhammer-40000-legendsgw-homepage-post-1/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=40k&utm_content=40klegendsDEC4&fbclid=IwAR0BB8C96qK2U5RJrLi59BXeDJxNM4abWhL3tzeMhdEhhlWuMFGi1fnKiqU


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Seems they moving a lot of “character on bike” to legends across the armies.

My sadness over the loss of my warboss in mega armor knows no bounds.

Ololol. Defkopta Bigbomm in Legends is for 6 points! So we' ve got the sale for nice good price)

So since the normal Big Mek entry got moved to legends, and the Chapter Approved lists a Big Mek specifically with a Kustom Force Field (like the SAG) — I'm going to hope we'll be getting a new Big Mek with Kustom Force Field model with Orks Psychic Awakening. Sad to see the Mega Armor Warboss go as well — I suppose Ghazghkull's rumored new model is supposed to make up for that one too — too bad he's 3x the cost and limited to Goffs, though perhaps he'll get some changes with PA.

Interesting they bothered to update the dataslates at all, i was expecting it to just be a semi-formal "heres everything we dont want you to use anymore" statement.
But they all have DakkaDakkaDakka, which was one of the issues of running index biker characters is they lacked DDD.

Still royally annoyed that this is a thing.

What i dont get is why is Bikerboss not in there? KFF Mek i agree with Jidmah its probably just them not wanting to piss people off TOO much by fething over people who bought the actual model before they decided to stop selling it since it was crapcast victimized.
But theres no bikerboss model...never has been either. The FW boss is Zhadsnark, by that logic the MA Boss shouldnt go away either.
ugh so confusing...

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Interesting they bothered to update the dataslates at all, i was expecting it to just be a semi-formal "heres everything we dont want you to use anymore" statement.
But they all have DakkaDakkaDakka, which was one of the issues of running index biker characters is they lacked DDD.

Still royally annoyed that this is a thing.

What i dont get is why is Bikerboss not in there? KFF Mek i agree with Jidmah its probably just them not wanting to piss people off TOO much by fething over people who bought the actual model before they decided to stop selling it since it was crapcast victimized.
But theres no bikerboss model...never has been either. The FW boss is Zhadsnark, by that logic the MA Boss shouldnt go away either.
ugh so confusing...

That's because the bikerboss is now added to fw in the CA. Snark en the bikerboss are now in there.

All things considered, we came out like bandits.

KFF big Mek is getting a new entry.

FW motoboss is sold as “WARBOSS ON WARBIKE”. Can be used as a Zhadsnark, but whatever. One model for 2 characters.

Similar could be with big mek - there is Ork Mek BUZZGOB - could be count as mek with kff.

So, new mek kff model could be nice, but relax. No new model is also an option. With pretty high %

They have been selling the Zardsnark model as "Warboss on Warbike" for years now, it makes sense for them to move him to FW.

Outside of the big bomm nerf, nothing unexpected in legends.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Bikers need a dataslate upgrade more than a points change.
They SHOULD be -1 to hit by default because of exhaust clouds but GW decided to turn a base rule (which was the main reason for the unit to exist mind you) into a stratagem for some fething reason.

Even if they redid the strat to exclude them so they cant do -2 to hit, they should still have it by default. That would drastically offset the difference between them and koptas.
Koptas have better range and more wounds but are easier to hit.

I agree completely that Warbikers need more of a rules revision rather than just a points cut, and one idea that could be good to bring as an add-on rule for Warbikers is one that I was inspired by from Pistoliers from AoS. Call it "WAAAGH-biker Blitz" or something, where you get to shoot again with their weapons at the unit(s) you declared a charge against if you successfully pull off a charge against at least one of them, this happens right before they are moved into combat and before pile ins. So this could be an interesting way for them to clear out remaining screens before hitting home on their target hiding behind them. It also gives them a different role to that of Nob Bikerz, who should be more of a threat in CC rather than shooting. It also makes the Evil Sunz WL trait of Falling Back and Charging much more tempting if you have a bike centric list.

This could be in addition to the baseline -1 to hit, though I'm not sure if that's too much.

I think all types of Nobz need some sort of rule to make them do more when they're actually in combat, something distinct from boyz. I think they need something like "The Biggest and The Baddest": When this unit makes a successful charge, add one damage to all of its melee weapons until the end of this combat phase. If you roll a double for your charge, you add 1 AP to their melee weapons as well. This would make Nob Bikerz hit reliably hard, even with normal choppas, and make big choppas monstrously dangerous, even if it only has 1 AP. Makes it so they're good against multi-wound targets, whereas boyz are good at killing chaff and single wound units.

 DaisyWondercow wrote:

tulun wrote:


I am really curious if we will start seeing buggy heavy mechanized lists with no boys. I think as long as marines dominate, boys are in a bad place.

I don't think it will replace boyz. I think part of why heavy mech is possible is that boyz are such a strong foundation - relatively cheap, fantastic anti-infantry, hard to shift, and a great source of CP. What we've been missing, I feel, is ways to bring down enemy armor in our post-powerklaw world. A whole mess of buggies and walkers equipped with KMBs is the solution I've been looking for. But I still have at least 60 boyz on the table.

I don't think 210 point boy squads are cheap CP generation -- Grots do that *way* better for 30 points each.
They are fine against GEQ infantry, or even T3, but MEQ / PEQ they fall off pretty hard, and PEQ / marines are the real problem.
My experience has been they have been relatively easy to shift. Armies are not lacking killing power, and in fact, are fielding even more multishot stuff with marines running around. T-shirt saves do not last long in 8th edition.

Our armour pen is actually not that bad w/ Mek Guns, SSAG, and Tankbustas. Buggies are filling a different role for us than just pure firepower -- its also, fielded enmass, they might survive a few rounds.


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Also another catch from Legends:

Kommando Nobs can take Big Choppas
We can take 2 Big Shootas or rokkits

We can also get our Deff Kopta Big Bombs back for 6 points. Not sure that's worth it, but nice.

Meks also can take KMB still?

I usually do only Grots for my CP generation (well... and a SSAG and Weirdboy) because I run mechanized Orkz and I'd rather lose cheap units than expensive ones when my opponent fires up their anti-infantry guns.

Boyz should never be taken because youre after CP. 10 boyz is barely more useful than 10 grotz and more than twice the cost.

Boyz should only be used if you have a need for them that grots cannot do. Generally in filling multiple trukks/wagons in shoota boyz or DS'ing big blobs.

Yeah, exactly.
2 SAGs + 30 grots is 250 points for 5 CP. And now you can add a bunch of our great non troops.

Here's another question:

The 29 point Deff Kopta lives. Is the 1 shot KMB better than 6 big shoota shots, for a unit we generally only care about tying up anyway? I'm kind of thinking it might be.

tulun wrote:
Yeah, exactly.
2 SAGs + 30 grots is 250 points for 5 CP. And now you can add a bunch of our great non troops.

Here's another question:

The 29 point Deff Kopta lives. Is the 1 shot KMB better than 6 big shoota shots, for a unit we generally only care about tying up anyway? I'm kind of thinking it might be.

Outside of Deffkskullz and maaaybe Bad Moonz, big shootas all the time. Cheaper and now that they're priced competitively, they can do their job as front line harassers.

Yeah unless theyre deffskullz utilizing KMB or Rokkits (rokkits still love the deathskull rerolls, even if they lack the damage roll) you'd be better off keeping them cheap as possible.

Badmoonz can generally get away with rokkitz too but i'd still say keep them cheap. Course i cant do that because i only have AOBR koptas lol.

....anybody else feel dirty saying the bigshoota is the better option...?

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Yeah unless theyre deffskullz utilizing KMB or Rokkits (rokkits still love the deathskull rerolls, even if they lack the damage roll) you'd be better off keeping them cheap as possible.

Badmoonz can generally get away with rokkitz too but i'd still say keep them cheap. Course i cant do that because i only have AOBR koptas lol.

....anybody else feel dirty saying the bigshoota is the better option...?

You're not alone, given how on almost every other platform, if I didn't have to take big shootas on it, I would take it off, its very weird to suggest one of the most suboptimal guns in our army as a choice. Such is the power of CA.

KMB one is marginally cheaper than BS.

We seriously caught a break with them even making the warboss on bike a legal FW model...

The big Mek w kff and ghaz are hopefully at least 2 new models we get....

But honestly we did well with legends and even got some updated rules...

I’m still kinda annoyed the kommandos with big Choppa isn’t allow they still sell the FW model!

The only models I have that are basically gone now and can’t be repurposed (outside of 2nd edition models) are the old buggies and traks. If they make a new ghaz model I can still use the old one as a mega armor nob it’s only marginally bigger then the current mega armor nobs.

I feel like Koptas are gonna fill a "mechanized Boyz" role, of rushing up the board T1 and tying troublesome units into CC. And if so, then keeping them cheap as chips is the way to go.

gungo wrote:
We seriously caught a break with them even making the warboss on bike a legal FW model...

The big Mek w kff and ghaz are hopefully at least 2 new models we get....

But honestly we did well with legends and even got some updated rules...

I’m still kinda annoyed the kommandos with big Choppa isn’t allow they still sell the FW model!

The only models I have that are basically gone now and can’t be repurposed (outside of 2nd edition models) are the old buggies and traks. If they make a new ghaz model I can still use the old one as a mega armor nob it’s only marginally bigger then the current mega armor nobs.

Kommando Nobs can take Big Choppa or Choppa now, as well as up to 2 Big SHootas / rokkits / Burnas. Check the data sheets in legends

I am stupid? I don't understand the datasheet In legends.
Are they allowed competitively or are they removed?

The main Legends page says "not recommended for Matched Play" and the book itself says they "can be used for any style of play", so I expect it'd be up to the T.O. But I wouldn't bank on it. The points for these units won't be updated until 9ed, and I doubt many competitively-minded players are gonna be ok with you using them. At least not without giving them a heads-up first.

Wait a second, the datasheet are gone legend.

The wargear is left, which means we can still take kmb on koptas and burna on Kommandos?

Check the bottom of the PDF. Those wargear options have been "Legended".

"The Warhammer 40,000 Legends page contains datasheets and additional wargear options, definitive profiles that will live on their own dedicated page, enabling you to unleash your treasured classics in open, narrative and matched play games, with full points provided to help you balance your games."

Yeah, I guess so... So if you opt into legends, you append that stuff to the existing datasheet?

I guess that's why they just added the new KFF Mek, they wanted to 100% separate these old datasheets / options from new stuff?

Probably, yeah.

Well if so, Big shoota Deff Koptas it is. I wonder if I can just magnetize big shootas on the sides and claim the rokkits are fuel...

As with all Legends stuff, I'd suggest talking to your gaming group and/or T.O. about whether or not they're ok with using them. While most 40k players take GW recommendations as actual rules, there's plenty of reasonable folks who won't mind if you use them (as long as you ask first).

My entire 40k group doesnt care we're all still using legends.
Too many marine players are attached to their character bikers.