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Thanks, I updated the list with the kff and some squiggs.

I was a little curious about the whole "best klan for Souped up Shokka" and mostly around the sheer random maths. As a result Ive written some C to brute force if, because it seemed like a fun challenge.

Quick and dirty results over 10000 firings given klan of either deathskullz or badmoonz with dakkadakka active vs a toughness 7 target it seems deathskullz tends to be roughly 1.5 wounds more.

Of course, this is using the not so overly random rand() function and assumes the code isn't terrible and full of errors. If anyone else would like to find such bugs or muck around with it in general you can find the code here:

https://pastebin.com/6cS3WwAS

I'll check the code properly after the game I'm about to play, the logic of the code seems ok for me.

Only thing I don't see is the 2 rolls for 2D6 strength, but I have no time to read the code, so I'm probably missing it and it's well done, good job.

Lysit wrote:
I was a little curious about the whole "best klan for Souped up Shokka" and mostly around the sheer random maths. As a result Ive written some C to brute force if, because it seemed like a fun challenge.

Quick and dirty results over 10000 firings given klan of either deathskullz or badmoonz with dakkadakka active vs a toughness 7 target it seems deathskullz tends to be roughly 1.5 wounds more.

Of course, this is using the not so overly random rand() function and assumes the code isn't terrible and full of errors. If anyone else would like to find such bugs or muck around with it in general you can find the code here:

https://pastebin.com/6cS3WwAS

FYI : Norton noted that it blocked a vulnerability from that link for me.

i think the only way youre going to get an "accurate" result for SSAG math is if you go into the millions of shots.
Just factoring how many different shot potentials it has alone is a lot of instances (how many shots at what strength). Nevermind the hyperswingy accuracy, DDD, and kulture rerolls.
Im not a math wiz though. My major/current job really has no complex math involved so what i learned in college....6 years ago is kinda muddy at best.

Sorry to side track the conversation but I'm trying to figure out my army. I haven't played yet but I've been collecting since August and so far I've only picked up used Lots of boyz. Some of them I have been able to build myself, which I enjoy immensely, but some were already assembled.

I have ended up with a lot of shoota's, and I don't know how to use them. From everything I've seen almost everyone prefers slugga/choppas which make up the majority of what I have which is cool. But I have about 16 shootas and I'm not sure how to use them.

When I build a list, is it better to have a group of all shootas and a group of all slugga/choppas? Do I sprinkle a few shootas into each group?

Right now this is what I'm working with.

Gretchen 10
Stormboyz 5
Burnaboyz 9
Tankbustas 7
Nobz 19
Nob with Banner 2
Spanner 2
Mek with sag 2
Big Mek with KFF 1
Warbikers 15
Meganobz 3
Komandos 11
Boyz 51
Heavy shoota 4
Shootas 16
Deffcoptas 3
Warboss 2
Painboy 2
Warboss in Mega Armor 1
Loota 4
Trukk
Wierdboy 1

Kebabcito wrote:

Only thing I don't see is the 2 rolls for 2D6 strength, but I have no time to read the code, so I'm probably missing it and it's well done, good job.

Its done on line 268.

I've just found a bug and corrected the paste. It always assumed the deathskulls reroll to hit was used before rolling extra hits from dakkadakkadakka. Now it'll use this roll on a dakkadakkadakka hit roll if miraculously all initial hit rolls hit.

I've enjoyed running 20-strong shoota mobs in a battlewagon. If integrated into a list with other vehicles rushing at the enemy, the battlewagon hanging back tends to do well when 40 shoota shots suddenly burst out of it. does quite well for clearing low-tier infantry & screens.

8 shootas, 1 rokkit and 1 kombi-rokkit nob in a trukk is powerful as deathskulls. it's cheap, manoeuvrable, and kicks well when it wants to (got the perfect 4 hits once or twice with the rokkits, hurrah for dakkax3!). you have enough shootas for 2 trukks-full, if you can make the rokkit-nobs and rokkit-boys to go with them.

I haven't considered mixing the unit as it was always better in the past to go all-or-nothing. 50:50 units could be more versatile, removing the models you're least likely to need when you take fire. a 30-strong mob which, after casualties, could either be 15 shootas or 15 sluggas is quite a good prospect. Never expect my boys to arrive unscathed, except if they jump and another unit tanks the overwatch.

I may try mixed units next game. It's all about 'sperimentin'!

Awesome! thanks for the input.

If you still have the sprues, I'd consider changing the burna's to lootas. With another box of lootas to top 'm up to 15 (or kitbash some) and 2 more boxes of grots. You can make 2 battalions or a brigade. With that, you'll have a start of a nice army.

Ya, my plan is to get more Gretchen for sure, and while I do like kit bashing, I'm staying away from lootas, I'd rather have the real things as I really like the way they look. I'm the same with flash gitz, I love the way they look and would really like to pick some of those up.

 Haasbioroid wrote:
Ya, my plan is to get more Gretchen for sure, and while I do like kit bashing, I'm staying away from lootas, I'd rather have the real things as I really like the way they look. I'm the same with flash gitz, I love the way they look and would really like to pick some of those up.

If you think you'll play lots of marines, avoid Lootas anyway. They are dead weight in the matchup.

Flash Gits will suit you better.

Yeah FG do rock. Do you guys think going higher then 10 is too much? I run buggie/mekgun lists.

Gruxz wrote:
Yeah FG do rock. Do you guys think going higher then 10 is too much? I run buggie/mekgun lists.

I think its one of those things that need experimenting. Honestly, if you can get 2 full rounds of shooting with 20 flash gits against the marine matchup, that might actually win you the game.

Question still stands how we effectively keep them alive. Trukks help, but I'm not sure they last 2 turns.

20 gitz thats a whole lot man. I was thinking 15 divided between 2 trucks.

I guess 20 could fit into 2 battlewagons. But by then you're 800pts deep. Smash some grots in there with a bmkff and a bm ssag and you're way past 1k.

Do 15 and 2 trukks thats 500 with room to spare for mek guns and grots and whatever. What do you think?

Gruxz wrote:
20 gitz thats a whole lot man. I was thinking 15 divided between 2 trucks.

I guess 20 could fit into 2 battlewagons. But by then you're 800pts deep. Smash some grots in there with a bmkff and a bm ssag and you're way past 1k.

Do 15 and 2 trukks thats 500 with room to spare for mek guns and grots and whatever. What do you think?

I think you need to fill out both trukks, simply for the ammo runts to take the wounds when the trukk pops. You're already paying so much for the trukk

It's 312 points for 10 gits, 2 runts, and a trukk.

I'm wondering if we could cheat it a bit, and tellyporta the 2nd unit of gits in turn 2 to save us on a 2nd trukk.

Grand total then is 560 points. That's not too bad.

If you put both in a battle wagon (although they'd have zero runts), you could do so for as little as 600 points (battlewagon with zero upgrades and guns).

It seems to cost between 560-624 points if you go the mecha style. Definitely not 800 points


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, 1 each? Yeah, that seems crazy overkill.

For 56 points with ZERO guns and upgrades, each battlewagon gives you:
+1 toughness
+6 wounds
and loses:
Ramshackle

That's about it. I honestly think Trukks are perfect. 10 wounds, T6, 4+ save, Ramshackle at 64 points is an okay price point for ablative wounds. Doubling the cost once you start taking goodies for only 6 more wounds.. I dunno. I think we need to be super scrimpy in competitive Ork lists.

So apparently the squiggy buggy got a price reduction. Is it still trash? What about buggies in general, because I think a few of them received reductions as well.

 some bloke wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Yes, I agree - it's just that blood axes are worthless for pretty much every other unit because few other ork units are ever in a situation where falling back is a serious option.

Fortunately the kill tanks transport capability is so limited as to be readily disregarded - meaning you can just run them in their own bloodaxe detachment and use another culture for the rest, provided you don't want to embark.

Hopefully the future will see a Battlefortress for us orks, so we can roll into battle all guns blazing. I miss my skullhamma and kustom battle fortress. :(

Try fill the kill tank with 10x Nobs with Kombi Skorcha + 2xAmmo Runts to get round the 6+ to hit thing

that is 10xD6 Auto hits after falling back lol stupid but funneh and Orky

if it pops give the nobz a 3+ save with Loot It and tank the disembark with the ammo runts.

Horribly expensive but funny

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So apparently the squiggy buggy got a price reduction. Is it still trash? What about buggies in general, because I think a few of them received reductions as well.

Oh yeah, its still trash.
It will remain trash until its guns actually have a purpose. Right now they lack the RoF or punch to do anything worth of 100pts we cant do elsewhere for better/cheaper
KBBs are pretty good though at 80pts

 kingbbobb wrote:

 some bloke wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Yes, I agree - it's just that blood axes are worthless for pretty much every other unit because few other ork units are ever in a situation where falling back is a serious option.

Fortunately the kill tanks transport capability is so limited as to be readily disregarded - meaning you can just run them in their own bloodaxe detachment and use another culture for the rest, provided you don't want to embark.

Hopefully the future will see a Battlefortress for us orks, so we can roll into battle all guns blazing. I miss my skullhamma and kustom battle fortress. :(

Try fill the kill tank with 10x Nobs with Kombi Skorcha + 2xAmmo Runts to get round the 6+ to hit thing

that is 10xD6 Auto hits after falling back lol stupid but funneh and Orky

if it pops give the nobz a 3+ save with Loot It and tank the disembark with the ammo runts.

Horribly expensive but funny

I dread to think how expensive a kill tank full of kombi-skorchas would be... but it does sound fun. Though I might be more tempted by multiple big-trakks full of kombi-skorchas, wielding skorchas and supa-skorchas! you'd only need 6 per trakk, so a little cheaper.

I have a few agreeable opponents, I might proxy 3 of them one game for a bit of fun!

I tried the big trakk with supa-skorcha, 2x skorchas filled with skorcha nobs back when our codex dropped. It wasn't great haha, fun but pretty much useless sadly. With point drops happening to so many things since but none of the above it's comparatively speaking way worse now..

The supa-skorcha being heavy just makes it not worth it alone since either you forgo its shooting T1 or everyone else. It won't be left standing T2

PiñaColada wrote:
I tried the big trakk with supa-skorcha, 2x skorchas filled with skorcha nobs back when our codex dropped. It wasn't great haha, fun but pretty much useless sadly. With point drops happening to so many things since but none of the above it's comparatively speaking way worse now..

The supa-skorcha being heavy just makes it not worth it alone since either you forgo its shooting T1 or everyone else. It won't be left standing T2

This small stupid things fills me with rage. The whole purpose of the damn thing is to move and flame dudes. What is the point of staying still in deployment zone or waiting t2 to do anything?!?

On a slight pivot..

Has anyone tried out infiltration style lists in maelstrom?

It seems like you could build a fun list where you bring like:

3 15 man Kommando units (make them Evil suns for the charge bonus)
3 5 man Nob units w/ Big Choppas (95 points, Blood axes for 1 CP infiltrate)
Snikrot
Whatever else you feel like Deep Striking with Tellyporta (Deff Dreads perhaps?)

Then you just flood your opponent turn 2/3 with an entire horde appearing anywhere you want on the board. Just use the first turn to push some board position and clear out deepstrike screens.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Goonhammer has finally done Da Boyz.

https://www.goonhammer.com/start-competing-orks-tactics/

PiñaColada wrote:
I tried the big trakk with supa-skorcha, 2x skorchas filled with skorcha nobs back when our codex dropped. It wasn't great haha, fun but pretty much useless sadly. With point drops happening to so many things since but none of the above it's comparatively speaking way worse now..

The supa-skorcha being heavy just makes it not worth it alone since either you forgo its shooting T1 or everyone else. It won't be left standing T2

What difference does it make that it’s heavy? It doesn’t roll to hit, and even if it did the big Trakks has the same rule as the Bw , move and shoot heavy with no penalty, plus 24” range on the thing means it’s always got something to shoot turn one after you move up. And Gorks teeth everything we got dies turn two or one if they want it dead. I run mine ( armorcast bowelburna) alongside Bws and it either draws fire from the wagons or vice versa, I put tankbustas in mine so it’s a threat to both horde and armor.

You cant advance and fire heavy weapons period, thats the issue.
The other flamers are assault so the bigtrakk can advance, and with flamers thats kinda needed.

Again why is that an issue? Big Trakks are fast, M14 inches beats any other land vehicle, why would they need to advance? The supa skorcha is the only flamer, put something useful like tankbustas or Freebootas in it , not trash like Burna boys. Plus your overlooking one little thing that can be very useful about FW transports, they’re not clan locked like codex transports are.

Because 14" + 8" (the skorcha range) equals to 22", most standard deployments are further away than that meaning either all those skorchas don't get to fire T1 or you advance getting an extra d6" range but the superskorcha then becomes ineligible since its heavy.

Sure, it might get to fire at some forward deployment units or if you go second but the amount of firepower you're getting inside of those very static 22" makes it easy to outmaneuver and it's just too many points for something that's fairly flimsy.

Again, this is for an all flamer big trakk build. If you were to put tankbustas in it, or flash gitz, then the problem becomes a lot smaller (actually flash gitz being heavy as well means they wouldn't even want to advance anyways so no issue at all there)..

Lysit wrote:
I was a little curious about the whole "best klan for Souped up Shokka" and mostly around the sheer random maths. As a result Ive written some C to brute force if, because it seemed like a fun challenge.

Quick and dirty results over 10000 firings given klan of either deathskullz or badmoonz with dakkadakka active vs a toughness 7 target it seems deathskullz tends to be roughly 1.5 wounds more.

Of course, this is using the not so overly random rand() function and assumes the code isn't terrible and full of errors. If anyone else would like to find such bugs or muck around with it in general you can find the code here:

https://pastebin.com/6cS3WwAS

Good job.

As I pointed out, the SSAG has somewhat like 10^56 possible results (see my previous post for exact number), 10000 firings are not going to be enough to appease the law of great numbers. Have it run for a week or so, then you should be getting proper results


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tulun wrote:
Goonhammer has finally done Da Boyz.

https://www.goonhammer.com/start-competing-orks-tactics/

That's a pretty good article, thanks for sharing!

I pondering whether to add it to the first post, what do you guys think of it?

I think it a very good post if you are just starting and want to get another opinion on everything. I would add it.

I gave it a quick once over, Jid, and think adding it to the OP is a good idea.