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2019/12/28 23:40:04
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
My other problem with bikers Is that with the new bases is hard as hell to tripoint anything, so is hard to survive that one turn that would make a world of difference
2019/12/29 08:27:44
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
I don't think the problem with bikes is -just- points. Obviously if points go down enough anything becomes good but they really should get a buff from either advancing or charging.
If they got billowing exhaust clouds from just advancing (-1 to hit) that'd make them far more interesting. If run through 'em just became an ability (2d6" consolidation) I think we could have a lot of fun with that.
Or, if they got reroll wounds/+1 to wound or AP-1 the turn they charged then at least they might threaten a few more units instead of just tagging stuff. However these buffs should be in addition to point drops but points probably won't go down for a while so best we can hope for is something like this in PA6 IMO.
Just generally speaking I'm also unsure what'll happen to the specialist detachments. They really just came and went with several races were left out of those bonuses and now some strats are redundant/confusing with the new SM codex. It wouldn't surprise me if they just go away with the beginning of 9th edition. If the kult of speed detachment goes away then there'll be very few forgiving traits left for the warbikers (obviously losing da souped up shokka would hurt more on a competitive level though).
2019/12/29 09:04:21
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
That's fair, they probably shouldn't stack but that's easy enough explain. Basically you'd still be able to use the strat on the buggies or deffkoptas or if you didn't advance the bikers.
If they got -1 to hit after advancing then that'd at least not punish you for taking more than one unit, something I assume basically no one does now since there aren't any defensive buffs past one big blob.
2019/12/29 10:10:39
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
I don't know if GW makes any stratagems that have completely different effects under certain conditions so that feels unlikely. Whatever, we've entered pure wishlisting here. My point was simply that unless warbikers drop a huge amount of points (which probably wouldn't happen until CA2020 anyways) our best hope is stat/ability/stratagem improvements from PA6, which really might happen considering some of the buffs previous PAs handed out.
2019/12/29 16:14:56
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
The point is, though, Ork lists have to evolve beyond the current Ork boy / mek gun spam. This might include using units that on paper don't seem to hold up, but provide certain advantages (in the case of bikers, it's the ability to get around Auspex Scan and infiltrators to achieve a reliable turn 1 charge).
This list was highlighted by Goonhammer and got a 9th place finish in a November ITC tournament. He even wrote a blog post break down and how it tried to mitigate the VPs that buggies give off and the general strat.
I honestly think it has potential but I think it loses straight up to IF (although it might do better against IH). I'm not sure we have a list out there that can beat both consistently... or frankly
maybe just IF. Heavy bolter spam that can crack Knights? Yeah, how the hell does a light infantry / vehicle army beat that.
There is no list to handle iron hands atm.
And 8 think the worst way is make other army's as good as iron hands.
They're still at 65% win. They are just to good
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/29 17:11:16
2019/12/29 17:58:38
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
T1nk4bell wrote: There is no list to handle iron hands atm.
And 8 think the worst way is make other army's as good as iron hands.
They're still at 65% win. They are just to good
No argument here that they aren't OP.
I do think Mech / Buggy spam might *raise* our win % from the low 30s, though. If we even get low-mid 40's against the likes of IH, I think Orks are more likely to place in tournaments, as that's way closer to a coin flip.
I think it helps against some of the other matchups, too. We can hide characters in vehicles against RG (or have less HQs in general), for example.
I just think its a loser against IF, but I dunno if we have any sort of winner against IF.
2019/12/29 18:28:08
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Well yes generally it's not a bad choice to max out things that hit hard VS primaris atm.
I play often a deffkulz brigade (1750 games)
With 3 scrapjets and a wazbom it works pretty fine together with ssag mek, smashas and 10 flash gitz in a trukk
40 boys and grots wyrdboys. 2 koptaz
Had a lot of success with things like drffskull scrapjets, wazboms, shokk jump and so on vs Marines.
VS if I won every single game atm.
VS iron hands I lost 7 from 8 games And the win was just the luckiest roll fest ever
2019/12/29 20:09:11
Subject: Re:No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
First match with tau against IG and SM, won, my SSAG did nothing worth, my boyz grab a lot of point markers.
Second match with Dark Angels, against Emperor Children and white Scard, my SSAG destroy a Dreadnought and a Land Rider first turn, a Demon Prince (his warlord) and a biker (his other warlod, cuz its duo) in turn 2, my boyz do all the charges ans I do everything, my mate Dark Angels go full DS, do nothing, fail charges and get carried, we win.
Third match eith DG againdt double SM, imposible to carry, my SSAG destroy a repulsor in the first 5 minutes of match, my rival gets super salty, still I have not enough power to win, DG is too sloe and he do absolutely nothing whole match.
GG space marine
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/29 20:10:36
Orks 5000p
2019/12/29 22:07:46
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
T1nk4bell wrote: Well yes generally it's not a bad choice to max out things that hit hard VS primaris atm.
I play often a deffkulz brigade (1750 games)
With 3 scrapjets and a wazbom it works pretty fine together with ssag mek, smashas and 10 flash gitz in a trukk
40 boys and grots wyrdboys. 2 koptaz
Had a lot of success with things like drffskull scrapjets, wazboms, shokk jump and so on vs Marines.
VS if I won every single game atm.
VS iron hands I lost 7 from 8 games And the win was just the luckiest roll fest ever
Interesting. You’d think this would be a bad matchup for us with loads of buggies. They didn’t just lay waste to your vehicles?
2019/12/29 22:17:21
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Dunno, might be best to focus on playing narrative untill they fix Marines, they are so obviously out of proportion that is like playing with an index vs a whole codex.
It is IMPOSSIBLE play vs IH. It might be doable vs the rest of the Astartes. Gunz spam, FG and wazbomb are still good choices. I wonder how do gorka/morkanaut fare vs the rest atm.
Freebooterz disappeared from the meta.
I really hope we can get some more tools in our bag with March PA. Otherwise guys, just enjoy the game some other way
2019/12/29 22:21:59
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Well I think space Marines are fine, exept fists and hands. Mayb raven guard a bit to good but that's it.
Orks have a hard time at the moment we will see what PA brings.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/29 22:22:59
2019/12/30 03:53:16
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
I havent tested it, but lootas would be great against Primaris and Dreadnauts still correct? I know the mob up nerf hurt, but potentially 45 shots, rerolls, exploding 5's and shooting again has got to be pretty nasty still
2019/12/30 04:00:30
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
ATM it is still a valid option although Astartes Will wipe your grot shield in a turn.
We have being talking about playing Flashgitz in trukk instead, since they are a more valid option with only 7ppm more and no cp investment required.
2019/12/30 04:06:00
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Keramory wrote: I havent tested it, but lootas would be great against Primaris and Dreadnauts still correct? I know the mob up nerf hurt, but potentially 45 shots, rerolls, exploding 5's and shooting again has got to be pretty nasty still
With stealthy, I'd say no. You are shooting into 2+ or 1+ armour saves and burning all your CP for the pleasure. Just look at the averages against stealthy primaris with an average # of shots, it's depressing.
And then you can't use grot shields on your SSAG, which is far more important to keep alive.
2019/12/30 09:34:14
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Don't do Lootaz in a Trukk. 1) they have BS5 and Heavy Weapons, so if you Move, you're hitting in 6s only. 2) you just dropped your max unit size by 3, losing yourself an average of 6 shots. 3) you can't use Stratagems on an Embarked unit, meaning no shooting twice, no Moar Dakka, and no Command rerolling the number of shots.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/30 13:04:17
2019/12/30 12:43:19
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Lootas are totally fine *except* in the marine matchup, where they could be complete deadweights with the right successor trait (IE: Stealthy). Even without stealthy, Flash Gits will achieve what you want better, for less CP.
I would say most other armies would not like to stare down our Loota bomb.
The Mega-kannon is way better than the tellyporta mega-blasta and cheaper, so it's kind of a no brainer to me. Sure you guarantee 3 shots, but you only average 1 shot more, lose 1 foot of range, lose 1 ap, and go down to d3 damage. The toughness thing will rarely matter (the plasma cannon might just outright kill the model without some funky auto kill roll). I'm not sure I'd ever take the supa shootas unless I somehow had some extra points, but they are fine without them.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/12/30 15:14:59
2019/12/30 15:15:48
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Nooo I just built 10 Lootas from Xmas gifts lol. Now I have 15 of the buggers. I was strongly looking at the Gitz too because they were such beautiful models. But the ork in me saw the idea of 90 strength 7 shots (shoot twice) and became mesmerized by all the dakka.
Forgive me, I'm bad (very bad) at math hammer. Is the average from Gitz and Lootas a huge difference?
Also I keep seeing the stealthy comment. What does this mean exactly?
2019/12/30 15:23:13
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Keramory wrote: Nooo I just built 10 Lootas from Xmas gifts lol. Now I have 15 of the buggers. I was strongly looking at the Gitz too because they were such beautiful models. But the ork in me saw the idea of 90 strength 7 shots (shoot twice) and became mesmerized by all the dakka.
Forgive me, I'm bad (very bad) at math hammer. Is the average from Gitz and Lootas a huge difference?
Also I keep seeing the stealthy comment. What does this mean exactly?
Stealthy makes the unit count in cover if they are being shot at from more than 1 foot away, so basically it gives your marine opponent a +1 armour save against your shooting that matters. Since Lootas are only AP-1, they simply don't penetrate enough armour to do much against a unit with a 2+ or 3+ save already.
Lootas are still fine, as you hopefully will face non-marines too. My most common component are the pointy ears (CWE), and Lootas are absolutely amazing in that matchup.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/30 15:27:41
2019/12/30 15:54:17
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Thank you I really appreciate it. Thats one of their custom traits right? Like the new nids ones?
Good to know about Eldar. I have a buddy who likes to spam them. Sadly I'm also my groups only marine player and I cant play my primaris (Ultramarines) because of how OP they are atm so I've been enjoying being silly with orks and GSC. At least I wont have to worry about facing other marines except some new kids with their new collections. I might bring the lootas against them just so they feel mighty facing off and surviving that artillery lol.
2019/12/30 17:08:09
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Keramory wrote: Thank you I really appreciate it. Thats one of their custom traits right? Like the new nids ones?
Good to know about Eldar. I have a buddy who likes to spam them. Sadly I'm also my groups only marine player and I cant play my primaris (Ultramarines) because of how OP they are atm so I've been enjoying being silly with orks and GSC. At least I wont have to worry about facing other marines except some new kids with their new collections. I might bring the lootas against them just so they feel mighty facing off and surviving that artillery lol.
No worries. Yeah, they'll be fine. Most of the theorycrafting you hear here is literally just about the marine matchup, because it's just rough for our army.
According to 40k stats, we're operating at a 38% win rate against ALL marines (and we're probably less than that against Iron Hands and a couple others) since October. So most of the energy here is put into how to make that matchup suck less.
Orks have other bad matchups but none so bad as Space Marines, and they make up 25-30% of the meta... it ain't easy being green.
2019/12/31 13:19:03
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
Keramory wrote: Thank you I really appreciate it. Thats one of their custom traits right? Like the new nids ones?
Good to know about Eldar. I have a buddy who likes to spam them. Sadly I'm also my groups only marine player and I cant play my primaris (Ultramarines) because of how OP they are atm so I've been enjoying being silly with orks and GSC. At least I wont have to worry about facing other marines except some new kids with their new collections. I might bring the lootas against them just so they feel mighty facing off and surviving that artillery lol.
I can give you some context with some personal experience. All ITC tournaments.
2019 was the first year I played competitively and went to tournaments. I played 6 months 1-2 a week freebooterz and won 2 RTT (20/25 man one day tournaments) and went 5th to a major.
Than had a bad summer (30th to a big RTT and 20th something to a major) for health problems and change of list (yep, changing list WILLL influence your results under duress more than you think).
Than I won my last RTT in November.
Now.
I met first the Tau player that won the summer RTT and won by clockiing him out.
THAN I met a dude that I smashed in the start of the summer with his BA (something like 40-4). He played RG this time . Same dude, same painted army (a couple of primaris and 2 invictor more) , same skills. I won by like 7 points margin, 32-25 and all because my SSAG went bananas T2 and blasted a unit of intercessor 10 and almlost a unit of 10 assault Marines . So here I am, struggling to survive 3 turns vs the same guy I tabled t2 barely 6 months ago, JUST because he got a codex that require almost no skills to blast you out of the board, IF you are not SM, otherwise yes, you might need to know what are you doing.
On the other side of the board, is us, that need basically everything to be perfect all the time in order to have a chance vs Marines.
2019/12/31 16:20:32
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
The more often I play against supplement marines, the more I think this is an ITC problem. In all my games against marines, I usually have nothing but gretchin left when they end, but all of them are clear wins. Last game I've followed the advice I posted some days ago and focused all my guns on their screen T1 and then overran them during T2-3. By the end of turn 4 I had nothing but 10+10+6 gretchin, a KFF mek and da red gobbo left on the board, but my opponent had no way of catching up on VP.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/31 16:20:57
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2019/12/31 17:03:49
Subject: No more muckin' about - Proppa Ork Tactics Thread [Lists in spoilers or we'll krump ya]
No it isn't, mayb its a bigger problem because of kill point nonsense and some other things.
But they are by far to strong and to no brainer. ( speaking for ih if and raven guard.
Orks 5000p 