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I think a simpler fix would be that units like Killa Kans lose the gretchin keyword or get a new keyword (if necessary for rule purposes), so they could benefit from kulturs without other units being affected.

Killer Kans getting any of the kulturs would not break the unit, nor would it even make them competitive. Mek Gunz would probably have to go up in price if they could get Bad Moonz or Deathskullz, yes.

I mean, sure that'd work but it feels a bit soulless almost. Grots should have some bonuses, and if they had more on their actual datasheets then that'd be fine (such as skrag 'em and surprisingly dangerous in large numbers) but they don't and as such play in a fairly boring manner right now. Don't get me wrong, grots and mek gunz are good but not really fun to play other than the times grots grossly overachieve on damage etc.

There's plenty of personality and fun (and utility) to be had with grot units if they got some more rules. Buffing grots with a mini-kultur could also potentially help grot tanks and grot mega tanks (even though they suck right now but FW points are subject to heavy and sudden changes so one never knows). It could also help potentially new units.

It probably won't happen at all and if they go with your solution Tulun then I'd be a lot happier with that than nothing but I really hope they actually give us something interesting to play around with in PA.

Mek Gunz are the only gretchin unit that doesnt really need the kulture, they unlike the rest seem to have been priced with it in mind.

Grots having no access to other weapons means their BS4+ is worthless, cant melee for squat, and die the fastest of any unit in the game. Kulture or not it wouldnt really help them much (6++ being the exception). But they are also the Grot Shield and super cheap troop slot so making them "effective" probably isnt wise.
Kanz seriously need it. They have this weird spot that i see a lot in 8th where the stats and special rules dont mesh right...its always overpriced or ends up being laughably cheap for its statline. If they had kultures, they'd be fine as is.

FW wise you got Grot Tanks and Grot Megatanks. Both are a friggen JOKE because they lack kultures, though theyre also just flatout overpriced so dunno if kulture is absolutely needed for them.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
But they are also the Grot Shield and super cheap troop slot so making them "effective" probably isnt wise.
Kanz seriously need it.

Yet the 4 PPM guardsman is an effective troop choice.

I don't think there would be anything wrong with making grots a bit better at 3 ppm. Even making their guns assault 1 instead of pistols would be a welcome buff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I’ve been trying to conceive of a fun flip off to forewarned / auspex scan list where I infiltrate a crap ton of MSU. I wanted to include a unit of 30 Grots in that mix, as their PL is 3 for the blood axe stratagem.

And 30 shots hitting on 3s w/ more dakka, wounding pointy ears on 4s is actually not bad for 90 points if they can appear up close.

Then I realized they can’t be the target of the stratagem :(

I mean, you could still da jump them but yeah, I feel your pain. The fact that kanz can't be tellyported is a pretty big deal however. If you could just chuck them into your opponents DZ where, granted they wouldn't do much, but are at least tough to kill for their points they might've found their way into way more lists.

In any case, I'm trying out a 3x burna-bomma list tomorrow. It's not going to do well I imagine but I just can't stop painting burna-bommas. Not being too greedy and flying off the board trying to land bombs will be an issue I imagine.

In this case, you’d want them In position first ( and they could forewarned in both your psychic phase and movement).
I was thinking of positioning them first in infiltration so they could actually grot shield other units that show up he’d choose to forewarn on. Doesn’t work with da jump unfortunately

Apparently the new Shadowsun can command any Sept for Tau.
Here's hoping they do the same for Ghaz at the very least. I would use him if i didnt have to dedicate a Goff detachment to him, mostly because i can not because hes awesome.

Kinda wish they would do that for all characters, or at least HQs.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Warboss on Warbike is FW now, but the strange thing is far as i know they havnt released a dataslate for him yet. Hes just listed in the CA19 under FW for costs.
Its probably safe to assume hes the same as the Index though and probably wont change outside getting Dakkadakkdakka

Thanks to you and tneva82 for your answers. I guess since it’s friendly games I will still use the BikerBoss with the Index datasheet.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Apparently the new Shadowsun can command any Sept for Tau.
Here's hoping they do the same for Ghaz at the very least. I would use him if i didnt have to dedicate a Goff detachment to him, mostly because i can not because hes awesome.

Kinda wish they would do that for all characters, or at least HQs.

Pretty sure Ghazzy already can my dude. His waagh is non-klan. I think is morale one may or may not be though.

You can only take Ghaz with a Goff detachment, as he has the GOFF keyword. His aura may work on anyone, but you still have to fit a Goff Detachment in to field him.

You can take a mixed clan detachment, the units just lose their detachment bonus (IE: Deathskulls aren't lucky, Evil Suns don't get movement bonuses, etc).

And Ghaz himself loses exploding 6s in melee.

Which is worse than just making it Goff. And since no one swaps in a Goff detachment in competitive, I hafta imagine that an unKultured detachment will be even rarer.

Ghazzy shouldn't be clan locked, he works with all clans in the fluff. It's one of his biggest things.

It would be an utter joy (although it makes the most sense with ghaz) if the named characters didn't necessarily break detachment rules and were able to be slotted in wherever, and their rules gave bonuses to the unit type, instead of <clan> unit type.

Guarantee you Snikrot or the Goff Stormguy would show up sometimes if they could benefit ES or DS.

He should be literally all the kultures lol.
That is, have a rule called "Da Most Kultured One" or something silly like that to literally give him all Kulture rules.

For a 235pt model that is pure melee and not wicked fast, that sounds fair to me lol. Especially since its unique anyway

It's really dumb that you lose your culture when you assemble the Council of da Waaagh! from previous editions, because Grotznik and Thrakka are both culture locked, when they weren't before.

Actually, with the freebootaz and gretchin units we may have the largest number of non-chapter type units in the game. Maybe guard could match us.

Not really. Drukhari exclude a fair number of "neutral" units on top of their three splinters, necrons have cannoptek stuff and free agents. Chaos Marines and DG exclude all non-helbrute vehicles and some characters can fit anywhere. Daemons have unalligned models, Tau have alien auxiliaries, GSC only work for infantry and bikers and TS/GK only affect psykers.

So, in general, having your detachment bonus apply to all models is normal unless you are Marines 2.0 or craftworld eldar.

Sisters have all the priests and their relevant units(arco flagelants, assasins, crusaders, penitent engines etc) not getting bonus as well.

Don't forget GSC who don't get traits on their vehicles, Brood Brother keyword units, Purestrain Genestealers, and Patriarch.

Just had a game vs DE with Ork speed freaks, various buggies, biker boss, bogs in trukks, some bikes, Koptas. What fun, the army is a blast to play. There is a lot of complaining on here but I have to say after playing admech and tau for a year this army is more fun and fairly deadly. There just random which is why I guess they might not always be reliable at tournies. For a fun evening game though orks can’t be beat.

Orks are amazingly fun if you're not playing a hard counter, assuming winning isn't the end all be all priority for you in 40k I don't think there's a more fun army out there, to play or build. It's just a shame how you're forced into very specific and spammy builds if you want to be competitive and even then that's not really going to be enough against the top dogs.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
He should be literally all the kultures lol.
That is, have a rule called "Da Most Kultured One" or something silly like that to literally give him all Kulture rules.

Can we call it, "I SEE YOU IZ AN ORK OF KULTUR"?

IG88 wrote:
Just had a game vs DE with Ork speed freaks, various buggies, biker boss, bogs in trukks, some bikes, Koptas. What fun, the army is a blast to play. There is a lot of complaining on here but I have to say after playing admech and tau for a year this army is more fun and fairly deadly. There just random which is why I guess they might not always be reliable at tournies. For a fun evening game though orks can’t be beat.

I’m about to roll out a mech list this Saturday. Stoked.

I think most of the concern here is just on the marine matchup in ITC, which is just garbage for Orks. Otherwise our army is fine.

My area is not tournament compliant, in any format. The only guy that did tournaments moved away.
As a result i sort of have the opposite problem lol. Good chunk of people here think orks are OP because they dont build proper anti vehicle lists, only the white scars player reliably beats me because that AP1 and +1Damage T3 onward autocounters any ork vehicle so hard a squad of 10 tac marines butchered a full health gorkanaut...that simply should never happen and its happened multiple times.

The amount of flak i hear for Da Jump is laughable, when they have access to droppods or can just deepstrike w/o spending CP for most of their armies.
Funny bit is theres 4 ork players around here. Im the only one that has a high win rate, and i do a lot of funky lists that simply should NOT win (ran a deathskullz list where i had 2 Bonebreakers with nobz, one had less nobz to hold characters, and 6 trukkboyz with a rokkit. I tabled my craftworld eldar opponent somehow)

i imagine if i went to tournaments i'd get my teeth kicked in but i avoid tournaments for the reason someone mentioned earlier: you are goaded into a specific list in order to compete. Easily 90% of our codex is utter trash in a hyper-competitive scene, but pretty dang strong in a semi-competitive one.
I like my big toyz, and tbh theyre pretty easy to counter if youre smart. Most players outside of a hyper-competitive scene arent that smart.... example being Knights. Lot of players in this area still view knights like they were in 7th, stupid hard to kill for their cost and crazy deadly. When in reality what more than HALF of the 8th rules are tailored to deal with knights right now? As both orks or admech i have 0 issues killing a random knight and dont really see them as a major problem, just one that if you are dumb enough to ignore you're gonna have problems.

Hmm since 8th edition I list exactly 1 game with orks
I played two torunements
And about 60 games with friends competetiv whise.

Ps I diddent faced ih or if yet.
But lots of other marine army's

It looks like Orks are going to get a fairly big release soon...
Big mek w Kff
New ghaz
Plastic kommandos (latest rumor engine has a pretty obvious ork kommando arm)

I’m excited... Hope is the first road to disappointment

I really hope they LL make plastic kommandos and make them scout/infiltrator, that would be a really good solution to a bunch of problems we have atm

I think our codex is so good if you play at tier 2 or less ( tier 1 being ultra competitive ITC), and more maelstrom style missions.

There’s enough juice in stuff until you over optimize. Of course, many armies have this problem.