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Well, not just from the extra CC, but you're losing damage from the Shootas you can no longer field. I believe most folks run their Boyz as 20 Slugga/10 Shoota. If Stormboyz could be run with Shootas, I wouldn't even be concerned.

Wiping out Boyz is easy, unless you can manage to lock someone into CC. Most units just don't have the weight of CC attacks to take them out in large numbers. But we're Orkz; getting wiped out in large numbers is pretty much what we're all about.

One thing to note is that our current "winning" strategy is to saturate the board with bodies, so grabbing the most point efficient options is going to be important there. Even if it's mind-numbingly dull.

Ork infantry armies have so many models on the board, giving so wide a variance in their rolls, could mean that trying to squeeze max efficiency is a bit like chasing the Chimera (the beast, not the APC).

The more units you have, the more opportunities you have to swing wide on the dice results, and the more limited the chances to affect the results with Strats / Command re-rolls.

I’m no mathematician, but I would not stress how finely you can tweak the points. It looks like 40k Life is going to frustrate you.

I am going to expand my speedfreaks army with some walkers. Two dreads will be the first addition, but I am also looking at something bigger. The Gork/Mork don't really appeal to me visually so I was looking further afield and thinking of adding a single allied (and off course completely orkified) knight. Which type of knight is the best and most suitable to use as ally?

tulun wrote:

 flandarz wrote:
I'm also interested to see how they play out. I DO think Stormboyz will work better against Marines, but even now Marines only make up like 40% of the Meta, so I'd like to see if they can be a good "replacement" against other armies. Especially when you're losing 25% of your damage potential, Green Tide, and Mob Up for 2 ppm more than Boyz.

What matchups are you concerned about specifically? Remembers that +1 attack isn't there forever. And functionally, from DS -> Charge, you are maybe losing... 15 attacks? Seems like the rule of thumb is about 15 boys consolidate in, right?

I dunno. Green Tide is boss, but I've found people can very easily play around it. Wiping out 6+ save Evil Sun boys, even 30 of them in 1 go, is not all that difficult for most armies. Once people understand the triggers (IE: don't let the boys go below 16 unless you can wipe them out), its rare to get it off, or it requires the auto pass morale stratagem, taking it up to 5 CP. It's amazing on paper. How often do you actually get it off against smart opponents, though, at 3 CP?

I would say there's nothing stopping from a mix of the two, as well, if they really give a massive edge on non-marine armies.

+1 attack is essentially there forever because when opponent deals with the unit they will delete the unit so either you greentide it back to 30 or it's dead or has like 2-3 survivors anyway. You don't get to attack more than one turn anyway so the +1A is there as long as needed.

While wiping out boyz is easy, you can expect that most armies won't be killing more than two entire units per turn unless you move them into the firing range of anti-horde units like aggressors.

Stormboyz fulfill two roles - one is threatening your opponent T1, usually with three units of storm boyz and one additional unit of boyz jumping afterwards. Their main job is to restrict enemy movement, draw fire and clear out any screens for your second wave - in T2, you should follow up with a similar wave of da jumped and tellyported boyz.
The other role is paying points for deep strikes instead of CP. If you are already running three battalion, this is a way to squeeze out even more CP by not having to pay for tellyport.

Even 2 units are quite a lot, in a marine meta, I don't usually meet people who builds anti-horde armies, they usually struggle killing ma orkz.

Well, my partner now is Imperial Guard and he destroy my units indeed, but that's not the case of the rest of the armies I usually face

tulun wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:
I think you are right @Tulun, I´ll try a list with 27*2 boyx and 25 Storm and we'll see what happens.

Sweet! I'm trying something similar Sunday (either 1 boy, 1 stormboy squad, or 2x boy, 1 stormboy squad). Let me know how it does. I'm gonna be trying mine as all Deathskulls, we'll see how that goes.

You gonna run it Evil Suns or something else?

I had to cancel today so its gonna be next Monday. You know, I think I might try them ES just because the rest of the detachment is ES and I want to be able to advance and charge, for the most part, I want them to be able to tag 2 tanks-TFC, so I can take out the rest of the artillery with a jumped SAG or the tankabustas

According to reddit user:

Guy who took 7th at Cancon 2020 took this list.

“watched the cancon list in action

triple freebooter battalion

3x sag

1x warboss

2x wierdboy

2x mega mek kff

263 grots multiple units of 30

30 flash gits

painboy

he went 7-1 was 2nd unitl the final round, lost to the winner who was also itc aussie overall winner for the year (ironhands)”

 Jidmah wrote:
While wiping out boyz is easy, you can expect that most armies won't be killing more than two entire units per turn unless you move them into the firing range of anti-horde units like aggressors.

Stormboyz fulfill two roles - one is threatening your opponent T1, usually with three units of storm boyz and one additional unit of boyz jumping afterwards. Their main job is to restrict enemy movement, draw fire and clear out any screens for your second wave - in T2, you should follow up with a similar wave of da jumped and tellyported boyz.
The other role is paying points for deep strikes instead of CP. If you are already running three battalion, this is a way to squeeze out even more CP by not having to pay for tellyport.

Yes. but then again they won't be reducing 2 units to <20 either. So the +1A is basically there until unit gets wiped out. So the boyz have 33% more attacks than stormboyz(or stormboyz have 25% less whichever you want to look at it).

And boyz already are struggling to do much killing especially against remotely competent opponent who knows how to not let 30 boyz all get into combat.


60 pts is lot to pay for 25% less punch and not fully reliable T1 assault.

tneva82 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
While wiping out boyz is easy, you can expect that most armies won't be killing more than two entire units per turn unless you move them into the firing range of anti-horde units like aggressors.

Stormboyz fulfill two roles - one is threatening your opponent T1, usually with three units of storm boyz and one additional unit of boyz jumping afterwards. Their main job is to restrict enemy movement, draw fire and clear out any screens for your second wave - in T2, you should follow up with a similar wave of da jumped and tellyported boyz.
The other role is paying points for deep strikes instead of CP. If you are already running three battalion, this is a way to squeeze out even more CP by not having to pay for tellyport.

Yes. but then again they won't be reducing 2 units to <20 either. So the +1A is basically there until unit gets wiped out. So the boyz have 33% more attacks than stormboyz(or stormboyz have 25% less whichever you want to look at it).

And boyz already are struggling to do much killing especially against remotely competent opponent who knows how to not let 30 boyz all get into combat.


60 pts is lot to pay for 25% less punch and not fully reliable T1 assault.

The number of attacks isn't really that relevant for storm boyz. Their job is not to deal damage, but to tie down your enemy during the first turn, clear out screens and force your opponent to handle them so your real boyz with +1 A can show up in T2.doesn't really matter. Since they can use INFANTRY stratagems like fighting twice, they are quite a threat to gun castles.
The charge is semi-reliable. While one unit in a vacuum is not guaranteed to make it, the odds of getting one or two out of three look a lot better.

All but one unit of boyz have 0 attacks in turn one, so the real question is whether you need/want or want 2-4 units of boyz with the ability to be in your opponent's face turn one.

However, since the TF cannon can just neuter two units of stormboyz by halfing their movement, I'd rather not play them in marine meta.

Stormboyz have the Fly keyword, so the TF Cannon stratagem doesn’t effect them like it does non-fly units.

Good catch - I guess that would actually make them a valid option.

 Emicrania wrote:


I had to cancel today so its gonna be next Monday. You know, I think I might try them ES just because the rest of the detachment is ES and I want to be able to advance and charge, for the most part, I want them to be able to tag 2 tanks-TFC, so I can take out the rest of the artillery with a jumped SAG or the tankabustas

Yeah, that's fair. I've been enjoying mono kultur and keeping my warboss able to affect all of my grots, but it's tempting to run them as Suns for the threat range.

Jidmah wrote:
Good catch - I guess that would actually make them a valid option.

Yeah, it's part of the reason I pitched Stormboyz as an alternative to Boys against Marines. Why I was confused they aren't being given a more serious look. Ignoring Tremor shells is a big deal.

The other factor is stormboyz are kinda pricy to get that many of and kitbashing that many is quite time consuming.
Thats why i dont have any, i just dont want to sink the time.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
The other factor is stormboyz are kinda pricy to get that many of and kitbashing that many is quite time consuming.
Thats why i dont have any, i just dont want to sink the time.

I can verify this. I have a rare collection of roughly 40 and it took a lot of ebaying and a few years of slowly accumulating boxes to get that many. The FLY keyword makes a world of difference though, especially when it comes to ruins and other tall terrain that can cause problems for us. Areas where you can barely fit deffkoptas are areas where stormboyz can land and perch alongside those annoying snipers that like to hide at the top of hills and such.

 Grimskul wrote:


I can verify this. I have a rare collection of roughly 40 and it took a lot of ebaying and a few years of slowly accumulating boxes to get that many. The FLY keyword makes a world of difference though, especially when it comes to ruins and other tall terrain that can cause problems for us. Areas where you can barely fit deffkoptas are areas where stormboyz can land and perch alongside those annoying snipers that like to hide at the top of hills and such.

One of the reasons I picked up a squad. Going to get their initial run Sunday.

I often play on tables with tall ruin terrain which has overhangs with very high (8+ inch) climbs. It's very cool, but when my sparring buddy can fly his jetbikes with impunity and infiltrate his rangers to spot sI have no chance of hell in charging with most of my normal units, it's annoying to say the least. Why I've loved Deff Koptas too. They can get at those crow nests.

Played against IF today, I won for the second time.

First rurn I kill repulsor with SSAG, I kill aggressord and primaris eith lootas, my mek gunz kill some troops too


Second turn I kill dreadnought with ssag, lootas kill more primaris, my boyz jump and do nothing, they die

Third turn my lootas are dead, I kill troops with mek gunz

Fourth turn we both are out of armies, i have some boyz left, he got some primaris and HQ, he try to attack me ssag but hes far away, so I win the match playing defensive last turns

Im going with 4 smashers and 60 boyz and I think I need more boyz and some more smashers, I would go 6 smash and 90 boyz and I would drop wazvbomb blastajet

 Vineheart01 wrote:
The other factor is stormboyz are kinda pricy to get that many of and kitbashing that many is quite time consuming.
Thats why i dont have any, i just dont want to sink the time.

In addition they are quite boring models - just boyz with more movement. Playing tons of boyz has always been the least favorite part of playing orks.

I really miss the days of battlewagon boyz being good

Yeah, wagon anything is more for fun than effective.
I run 2x10 shoota boyz w/ rokkits (nobz with a kombi rokkit so 4 rokkits) on a wagon alot but its more a distraction than a proper threat.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
The other factor is stormboyz are kinda pricy to get that many of and kitbashing that many is quite time consuming.
Thats why i dont have any, i just dont want to sink the time.

In addition they are quite boring models - just boyz with more movement. Playing tons of boyz has always been the least favorite part of playing orks.

I really miss the days of battlewagon boyz being good

You and me both. It's a pity that this edition has no incentive for armies to take transports. Outside of outliers like Wave Serpents (which is seen more because of how resilient it is to shooting) I basically almost never see transports in most of my games. All they have to do is make assault vehicles a bespoke rule for transports like Land Raiders, trukk and battlewagons, which allows units to disembark after the transport moves. That right there would make Nobz/Meganobz in transports viable. That or some sort of upgrades that are actually relevant to making the transport do something, like the boarding plank giving +2" to a charge from a disembarked unit rather than the poopy stratagem it is now, or the reinforced ram causing D3 mortals wounds on a 4+ to an enemy unit when it charges successfully.

They should bring back the Assault Vehicle rule (open topped, land raiders) where they can disembark after moving.

It was dumb you couldnt charge PERIOD after disembark, glad thats gone, but not being able to move + disembark is just as weird.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
They should bring back the Assault Vehicle rule (open topped, land raiders) where they can disembark after moving.

It was dumb you couldnt charge PERIOD after disembark, glad thats gone, but not being able to move + disembark is just as weird.

Yeah, it seems to be a weird half measure to prevent as much alpha striking with transports, but with that change and the priciness of transports alongside how units can't use aura abilities inside makes it so assault units are NOT viable in transports. That's why any good assault unit needs either access to innate or paid deep strike potential or moves fast on their own (i.e. jump packs). Transports are just too much of a liability with how many points they take up and how little they give back in return.

Yeah, really the only way assaulty things work in a transport is if you deepstriked the transport...since Ramming Speed is a thing.
Problem with that is sometimes it can just get completely surrounded so...theyre stuck in it.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
The other factor is stormboyz are kinda pricy to get that many of and kitbashing that many is quite time consuming.
Thats why i dont have any, i just dont want to sink the time.

They can be converted from Boyz. Plastic tubes in (?) half and quarter inch diameter, and some guitar string. Smaller tube on front belt as controls, larger on back with lower split for Venturi. Add rocket head from putty, straps and decoration to taste.

Robert is your dads brother.

How many do you want?

note that i said "kitbashing that many is quite time consuming"

Sure you can just strap a tube with a rocket-nose to their back but it looks ugly as hell. If youre going to go through the hassle of kitbashing, do it right so it looks great and you dont feel sinful using it later down the road.
Which does take awhile. I plan to just say eff it and print rokkit bits when i get a resin printer and convert boyz over, im not kitbashing 30-40 annoyingly small and detailed rocket backpacks lol.
I'll go through that ass pain for a Stormboss if we somehow ever get access to that, not for a squad or two of boyz

Moriarty wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
The other factor is stormboyz are kinda pricy to get that many of and kitbashing that many is quite time consuming.
Thats why i dont have any, i just dont want to sink the time.

They can be converted from Boyz. Plastic tubes in (?) half and quarter inch diameter, and some guitar string. Smaller tube on front belt as controls, larger on back with lower split for Venturi. Add rocket head from putty, straps and decoration to taste.

The other simple option is to loot marine jump packs - they fit boyz just fine. (And are especially fluffy for Deathskulls and Blood Axes ) To avoid them all looking the same, it's easy enough to add extra rivets, bolts, tubes, glyphs etc, and of course they can all be painted differently.

I think Stormboyz didn't historically get much of a look-in because the meta wasn't so ludicrously biased towards marines, which are the matchup where paying the extra points and losing the extra attack for a big mob seems most attractive.

I haven't really spent enough time thinking to see whether it makes sense, but I've been kicking around the idea for a list based around stormboyz + warbike warboss + wazboms with KFFs. If you can keep stuff within the KFF bubble, your opponent basically has to kill the wazbom before they can shoot your stormboyz or else it's super inefficient for them. FLY on the stormboyz seems like it would be really useful for messing screens too from T2 on.


So much of the meta these days seems built around DS and anti-DS, and to have the option to be able to get around most of that seems like it's be pretty valuable. Though also kinda gimmicky in that if you run into a list that isn't based around that you might get stomped.

yukishiro1 wrote:
I think Stormboyz didn't historically get much of a look-in because the meta wasn't so ludicrously biased towards marines, which are the matchup where paying the extra points and losing the extra attack for a big mob seems most attractive.

I haven't really spent enough time thinking to see whether it makes sense, but I've been kicking around the idea for a list based around stormboyz + warbike warboss + wazboms with KFFs. If you can keep stuff within the KFF bubble, your opponent basically has to kill the wazbom before they can shoot your stormboyz or else it's super inefficient for them. FLY on the stormboyz seems like it would be really useful for messing screens too from T2 on.


So much of the meta these days seems built around DS and anti-DS, and to have the option to be able to get around most of that seems like it's be pretty valuable. Though also kinda gimmicky in that if you run into a list that isn't based around that you might get stomped.

If you're feeling really cheeky too, you could da jump a painboy / mad dok up to where your stormboys are to give them a FNP too.

I'm not sure it's that gimmicky. They are basically boys with jump packs on. In the wrong matchup, you've overpaid for a boy; in the right matchups, you've prevented your boy from being deadweight.

As people have pointed out, if people gear to kill primaris, boys don't fare so badly. Maybe overpaying a bit for a stormboy isn't that big a deal. At least you can flip the bird to Tremor Shells, can still Da Jump, still fight again, still enter ruins...

yukishiro1 wrote:
I think Stormboyz didn't historically get much of a look-in because the meta wasn't so ludicrously biased towards marines, which are the matchup where paying the extra points and losing the extra attack for a big mob seems most attractive.

That's not true, we had storm boyz as staples on many top placing lists that were running the green tide archetype, which is no making a comeback. Those lists died out when everyone was gearing towards deleting guardsmen, plague bearers and cultists.

Stormboyz have been used in every edition except 7th (where they literally killed themselves to move for some fething dumb reason) because its more boyz that didnt need wheelz to get across the board. And could get across unimpeded.

I dont recall a single time they were good when base boyz werent good. Like what was pointed out earlier, theyre boring. Theyre literally boyz, so if boyz are bad they will be bad too. If boyz are good, odds are they will be good too.

im not even sure what they could give them to spice them up a bit that wouldnt be more along the lines of "StormNobz" (which i wish was a thing btw)