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 Jidmah wrote:

Orkimedez_Atalaya wrote:
Rule wise. Kutom kultures are almost guaranteed. However, what i would love to see if the waagh reworked. The concept has such potential that a simple buffing aura seems a wasted chance.

I don't think it's guaranteed. There have been a couple of variants being handed out to non-marine factions:
- additional warlord trait, psychic power and relic for existing sub-factions
- build your own sub-faction
- warlord traits for regular units (biomorphs, tank ace)

The only guaranteed thing is that we will get a pile of stratagems and a name generator.

In addition, I think any custom culture would struggle to compete with deff skullz.

Maybe. I would gladly trade the 6++ for something else, if nothing more, just to have an excuse to bring kffs back.

Whatever PA brings in, I hope bikers get some love.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
FW update on the other hand. That's something I really look forward

tneva82 wrote:
Lootas went from overpriced trash nobody plays to autotake with codex with stratagems.

This.

Stratagems could make or break any number of our "trash" units, including kanz, burna boyz, battlewagons or the bommers (doom scythe stratagem for blitza bommers anyone?).

Just the stompa might be a lost cause.

Yeah stompa is pretty hard to fix with stratagem without making stratagem totally silly like 3++ or something but other units have got stratagems in pa that have made mark and some non marines have got useful help. No quarantee orks get but not impossible either. Full fix ain't in cards but some units could be improved enough to help orks out a bit

A stratagem strong enough to make a stompa worth it would probably be a 3-4CP strat, as thats adding a TON of power to it given how overpriced it is.
A simple machine spirit type stratagem the Admech have would help a lot (1cp, it fights as if its in its top bracket that round) but even then its not the greatest investment.

KFF Mek is probably coming but i'd be shocked if it had any rule changes. At absolute best they give it a proper option for a KMB so he can do something other than stand there. And even that i doubt.

If I was wishlisting for PA, I'd wish for the BM with KFF to have the ability to have the bubble when embarked on a transport. That would help a great deal, ease the pain of losing the BM on warbike and would help with the sale of the new model.

And the painboys to return to the original 5+fnp bubble.

Those 2 things would aid us Orks tremendously.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
If GW is even SLIGHTLY paying attention to ork behavior in tournaments they'll know that if they dont unlock Ghaz he probably wont sell very well since a lot of people wont justify the (guessing but probably accurate) $60 pricetag for him when they really wont ever use him cause Goff sucks.
Nobody uses Goffs. Or Snakebites/Bloodaxes either but different point.

man....I hope he's ONLY 60 bucks...

Gruxz wrote:
If I was wishlisting for PA, I'd wish for the BM with KFF to have the ability to have the bubble when embarked on a transport. That would help a great deal, ease the pain of losing the BM on warbike and would help with the sale of the new model.

And the painboys to return to the original 5+fnp bubble.

Those 2 things would aid us Orks tremendously.

I could even see it as part of a stratagem or warlord trait, since tempestus have a warlord trait for one of their sub-doctrines to be able to order whilst inside a transport.

 Haasbioroid wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
If GW is even SLIGHTLY paying attention to ork behavior in tournaments they'll know that if they dont unlock Ghaz he probably wont sell very well since a lot of people wont justify the (guessing but probably accurate) $60 pricetag for him when they really wont ever use him cause Goff sucks.
Nobody uses Goffs. Or Snakebites/Bloodaxes either but different point.

man....I hope he's ONLY 60 bucks...

Cawl is the only other named character that would be similar sized and hes 55bucks. Ghazzy would probably be less spindlely but overall thicker so 5 more bucks.
He could be more, but this sounds right to me.

 Vineheart01 wrote:

 Haasbioroid wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
If GW is even SLIGHTLY paying attention to ork behavior in tournaments they'll know that if they dont unlock Ghaz he probably wont sell very well since a lot of people wont justify the (guessing but probably accurate) $60 pricetag for him when they really wont ever use him cause Goff sucks.
Nobody uses Goffs. Or Snakebites/Bloodaxes either but different point.

man....I hope he's ONLY 60 bucks...

Cawl is the only other named character that would be similar sized and hes 55bucks. Ghazzy would probably be less spindlely but overall thicker so 5 more bucks.
He could be more, but this sounds right to me.

Sadly 60 US bucks is like 70-80 CAD, and I can only imagine how much in AUD. Why do the Brits hate their former (AND LOYAL) colonies so? :(

 Grimskul wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:

 Haasbioroid wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
If GW is even SLIGHTLY paying attention to ork behavior in tournaments they'll know that if they dont unlock Ghaz he probably wont sell very well since a lot of people wont justify the (guessing but probably accurate) $60 pricetag for him when they really wont ever use him cause Goff sucks.
Nobody uses Goffs. Or Snakebites/Bloodaxes either but different point.

man....I hope he's ONLY 60 bucks...

Cawl is the only other named character that would be similar sized and hes 55bucks. Ghazzy would probably be less spindlely but overall thicker so 5 more bucks.
He could be more, but this sounds right to me.

Sadly 60 US bucks is like 70-80 CAD, and I can only imagine how much in AUD. Why do the Brits hate their former (AND LOYAL) colonies so? :(

Import taxes.

Can we speculate/wishlist for what Stratagems/things we'd like to see? I'm going to anyway - tell me to remove if you don't want them here Jid, they're more for fun than competitiveness.

1. An auto explode vehicle stratagem. It's criminal that Orks don't have an auto explode strat when other factions do.
2. A stratagem or clan trait that allows Boys to disembark and then move and/or assault. Let's make Trukks great again!
3. A stratagem or clan trait that allows Ork units to fire at 4+ BS.
4. A way to make a "Painboss" - upgraded Painboy HQ that maybe gives 5+++ and can revive models.
5. Give us Megabosses back or make Ghazzy cross clan.
6. A way to make Bikers useful, perhaps via custom clans (-1 to hit Speedfreeks please).
7. Grot Shields for bikes.
8. D6 Burnas for the love of Gork!
9. LoOtEd VeHiClES matched play rules and something to make Gunwagons useful.
10. A psychic power that turns enemies into a Squig or summons Squigs.
11. Reverse "Da Jump" (works on an enemy unit).
12. Something to give standard Power Klaws their anti-vehicle status back (extra damage vs vehicles or something?).

Any other ideas?

https://www.twitch.tv/steelcitylegion

Nick vs Geoff in a pre LVO game for anyone interested is streaming now.

tneva82 wrote:
Non marine that didn'' get custom traits...are there? Don't recall. Those who didn't get are ones who logically wouldn't like tson and grey knights but those are marines.

Eldar, de, tyranids, tau, gsc, ig. Non marines, custom regiment@whatever


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gungo wrote:

Because strategems don’t fix overpriced or to weak units... strategems are great at buffing shooting (orks already have some of the best shooting strats), great at deep striking (orks already have decent deepstriking strats) and strats are good at protecting units from shooting by making units harder to hit (orks already have one of the best w grot shielding).

Lootas went from overpriced trash nobody plays to autotake with codex with stratagems.

Lootas were always ok and they are still ok being slightly better w badmoons and definitely not auto take anymore. That badmoon shooting strat is already one of the best shooting strat in game and isn’t locked to lootas. My point was you aren’t getting a whole lot better. Just read my quote I mentioned shooting teleport and negative to hit strats being the one if the few helpful strats.
Want a good relic let’s hope they bring back the super KFF with a 4++ invul....

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

7. Grot Shields for bikes.

I now have the mental image of grots zooming along on tiny grot bikes which do almost nothing except create clouds of dust and smoke, and perhaps auto-explode if they run into anything. Do it, GW!

While I imagine the KFF Mek will have the same basic stats, his gear could certainly change, as that's going to be entirely dependent on how the model is sculpted and what extras (if any) they could cram onto the sprue. I really doubt there'd be more than two "alt" weapons, but I could absolutely see some combination of KMB, KMS (though hopefully not), burna, killsaw, or big choppa as options. Hopefully at least a KMB, just so he can contribute.

 Clang wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

7. Grot Shields for bikes.

I now have the mental image of grots zooming along on tiny grot bikes which do almost nothing except create clouds of dust and smoke, and perhaps auto-explode if they run into anything. Do it, GW!

oh god that would be hilarious.
Shoota mounted on the bike so they have some form of dakka but otherwise their entire purpose is kicking up dustclouds.

mental image: you see a battlewagon driving at you and a bunch of grots on bikes around it. One of them drives infront of the wagon, attempts to shout as he lets go of the steering and tumbles over as the wagon just plonks right over him. The ork driving the wagon laughs and steps on the gas more.

I just imagine its a sidecar, and as the ork is speeding up the board the grot pulls out a hatchet and chops the strap of leather that's holding it on to the bike and as the bike keeps going forward, the grot just goes rolling on, drifting towards a group of unsuspecting smurfs.

If Grots get little Grot bikes, surely they are pedal only. No Mek will waste time on a little grot engine and the idea of Grots furiously pedalling to keep up with an actual bike is too good to pass up in my head.

Pedal power? You think too small. Obviously they got a little Squig on a hamster wheel providing the power to the wheels. Probably with a delectable Snotling bait dangling in front of it for motivation.

I think we just developed an expansion to Speed Freeks.

It'll be like the weird Grotz boardgame that was released but actually interesting

I really would like to see more ork bikes, but looking at the design of orks in 8th, seems like they will give us more dakka in any way (Stratagem, relic...) and feth off

Bikes need a jinx stratagem and they might actually become decent. Not a lot is actually needed.

A way to ignore movement debuffs would be sweet as well

warbikers need their exhaust cloud back. The staple reason for their existence removed and the statline not reflecting it.
As they are, until theyre like 13-15pts a pop, warbikers are just bad. If they dont get locked in melee with something that cant reliably hurt them they are instantly dead, -1 to hit stratagem doesnt do diddly with how easy S7 AP1/2 2D guns are massed.

I think Orkz are just in a weird place where GW sees us as a "hurl lots of cheap models at your opponent" army, and also a "field a group of elite warriors", but our statlines are too poor for the latter and our point-costs (Gretchin aside) are too high for the former. So we're in this place in the middle where we need to rely on gimmicks to be viable.

It’s also the fact as this edition bloats up it gets further and further shooting focused with melee being less viable ghaz at best may make boy blobs stronger in melee.

We won’t get it but the relic kff at 4++ would be HUGE.

Quite frankly i find it really annoying the Mega Force Field went away.
One of the VERY FEW things in 7th edition codex that was awesome was a 4++ aura bubble via relics. I was shocked to see that missing, especially since they still didnt give us back our innate invuls (badrukk/ghaz nonwithstanding). Yeah they at least gave us Deathskullz invul but Cybork Body is still a pathetic FNP isntead of a 5++ like it used to be.
If they gave that back to us in PA....oh...oh boy....fun times ahead....

no way they give us, at the moment, a 4++ invul kff.

We have a lot of semi-competitive viable units (kommandos, stormboyz, deffkoptas, gorkanauts...) but very few highly competitive units (boyz, gretch, mek gunz).

I think they should check it, I understand orks are a horde army, but we can be an ork army without 200 boyz, we can have 50 boyz, 50 kommando, 50 stormboyz... and still be an horde army, with some mix units, not always the same.

Kommandos costing the same as a boy would be fine for me, and stormboyz -1 cost (costing 7 like a boy would be too much, cuz they are really fast).


I've just seen in battlescribe, Bomb squigs count as gretchlin, so even if they are evil sunz, they got a -1 to hit if they advance, jesus.

Kebabcito wrote:
no way they give us, at the moment, a 4++ invul kff.

We have a lot of semi-competitive viable units (kommandos, stormboyz, deffkoptas, gorkanauts...) but very few highly competitive units (boyz, gretch, mek gunz).

I think they should check it, I understand orks are a horde army, but we can be an ork army without 200 boyz, we can have 50 boyz, 50 kommando, 50 stormboyz... and still be an horde army, with some mix units, not always the same.

Kommandos costing the same as a boy would be fine for me, and stormboyz -1 cost (costing 7 like a boy would be too much, cuz they are really fast).


I've just seen in battlescribe, Bomb squigs count as gretchlin, so even if they are evil sunz, they got a -1 to hit if they advance, jesus.

While it’s a very useful tool, Battlescribe isn’t a perfect replacement for the official rules and as such doesn’t always have everything completely correct. Check your codex to see that in this case your supposition isn’t right - the Tankbusta datasheet and the Grots heading on page 124 have all the information you need. I hope that doesn’t come across as rude, I’m just trying to be concise.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Can we speculate/wishlist for what Stratagems/things we'd like to see? I'm going to anyway - tell me to remove if you don't want them here Jid, they're more for fun than competitiveness.

Eh, nothing much happening in competitive ork town right now anyways. Everyone is waiting for PA.

1. An auto explode vehicle stratagem. It's criminal that Orks don't have an auto explode strat when other factions do.

Yes! My DG are one of the three factions that can mess with explosions, and it's insanely powerful. An exploding PBC showering half an eldar army in d3 mortal wounds has won games for me.

2. A stratagem or clan trait that allows Boys to disembark and then move and/or assault. Let's make Trukks great again!

And battlwagons!

3. A stratagem or clan trait that allows Ork units to fire at 4+ BS.

Hum. It would be way over the top as a clan trait, and for stratagems we already got plenty that help a single shooting unit. I'd prefer something that specifically works on big shootas, rokkits or KMB, like some other army's stratagems do.

4. A way to make a "Painboss" - upgraded Painboy HQ that maybe gives 5+++ and can revive models.

Sure, why not? Currently pain boyz kind of lack a reason to exist.

5. Give us Megabosses back or make Ghazzy cross clan.

Honestly, I can run anything from legends and I still wouldn't run a megaboss. While not being clan locked is preferable, I put him in a goff detachment before. If disembarking after moving becomes a thing, goff bonebreakas look like a really good idea.

6. A way to make Bikers useful, perhaps via custom clans (-1 to hit Speedfreeks please).

Yes! -1 for all speed freeks would instantly catapult the army into competitive territory.

7. Grot Shields for bikes.

Due to the lack of grot bikers, I doubt this will be a thing.

8. D6 Burnas for the love of Gork!

Something interesting I discussed with someone else would be giving them a stratagem that give +1 to wound for the rest of the turn. This would help both their flamers and their melee.

9. LoOtEd VeHiClES matched play rules and something to make Gunwagons useful.

I toyed around with the looted vehicle rule a bit, even if you could use them in matched play, the only thing worth considering would be a cart with two skorchas and six shootas - but it would still struggle to compete with any of the new buggies.
The problem of all those models is that non of our turret weapons are worth bringing a 100+ points chassis.

10. A psychic power that turns enemies into a Squig or summons Squigs.

Bring Ol'Zogwort back!

11. Reverse "Da Jump" (works on an enemy unit).

I don't think moving enemy units will ever come back since the whip prince debacle in 5th. More powers would be welcome though.

12. Something to give standard Power Klaws their anti-vehicle status back (extra damage vs vehicles or something?).

It's pretty safe to assume that making them flat 3 damage while keeping the hit modifier would do that. Orks really need thunder hammers.

Any other ideas?

- A stratagem to keep units from falling back would be ace.
- Something to help blitza bommers find their place, like having a chance of the bomb affecting nearby units as well.
- Give FLY to a speed freeks unit for one turn
- Stratagems specifically targeted at killa kanz, maybe something like the fire frenzy that helbrutes get (fight/shoot again for 1 CP)
- Kommandoz can deep strike if they set up wholly within terrain, outside 1" of enemy models
- Nobz are da biggest and da best, a stratagem that improves their combat efficiency against characters, monsters and vehicles
- Relic Waaagh! Banner, relic KFF, relic MA
- Big Mek custom-jobs for vehicles, similar to biomorphs or tank ace let ork vehicles take warlord traits.


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 Vineheart01 wrote:
warbikers need their exhaust cloud back. The staple reason for their existence removed and the statline not reflecting it.
As they are, until theyre like 13-15pts a pop, warbikers are just bad. If they dont get locked in melee with something that cant reliably hurt them they are instantly dead, -1 to hit stratagem doesnt do diddly with how easy S7 AP1/2 2D guns are massed.

My biggest gripe with the stratagem is the timing, if I could use it at the start of a battle round, it would already be much better.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kebabcito wrote:
no way they give us, at the moment, a 4++ invul kff.

I think they should check it, I understand orks are a horde army, but we can be an ork army without 200 boyz, we can have 50 boyz, 50 kommando, 50 stormboyz... and still be an horde army, with some mix units, not always the same.

In 5th a top competitive battlewagon bash would run 20+20+12 ork boyz at 2k points, a kan wall would run 4-5x 20 at 1500. Before 8th orks have never had to run this many boyz.

Bomb squigs don’t have the Gretchen keyword. They get clan bonuses.