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Waaaagh!lock sounds like a special title for a new character not a generic term.

Which would be awesome if we got a named psyker...yaknow since we lost the one we had....

tneva82 wrote:
5 feet sounds big except if terrain is proprly set getting longer than 3 fet uninterrupted LOS at will should be pretty darn rare and if you get that there should be plenty of places for opponent to hide out of that.

I find anything beyond 30"(including movement) to be nice bonus. Mobility is actually bigger help to get to position to shoot at hiding enemy.

Sure. But seeing some of these itc boards, you can find lines. He’ll, if they are too scared to poke their heads out, I’ll win on board control.

Also doesn’t address the transport problem nor the grot shield competition. SSAG staying alive is paramount in a lot of matches, unless you just roll like ass.

On Grot Shields:

1) it only works on one unit, so if you field 3 SAGs, you're still only protecting one of them.

2) SAGs have character protection and have an Ammo Runt. Generally speaking, they should be fine unless your opponent is fielding a LOT of Snipers.

3) you mentioned long range firing, which is obviously a point in the SAGs favor, but that also means that any Sniper(s) that want a piece of your SAG have to either have long range, or likely expose themselves to return fire to get into range.

I, obviously, don't know your meta, but Snipers aren't a huge issue in my own. And the SAG (and even the SSAG) are far cheaper than a 300 pt group of Gitz anyway.

Played 2 games against Primaris BA today.

Had 2 SAG Meks, Morkanaut, Wazbom Blastajet, Dakkajet, 2 Dragsta, 1 Boosta Blasta, 1 Battlewaggon filled with 10 + 5 Gitz + Badrukk + Dread Waaagh KFF Mek, 1 Pikk Up with 7 Gitz, Wyrdboy and some Grotz.

@Jidmah: Used the tactic you posted in the DG tactic thread about a week ago and build my tactical objective deck without caring about holding stuff.
My list was extremely fast and quite killy with all the DS rerolls and lots of 2 / 3 / D6 Dmg.
Basicly my deck was all the kill x stuff i could achive, some stuff like area denial and about 4 secure x cards to get exactly 18 cards. (New CA missions of course.)

Have to say i really liked that idea of yours to go for all the D3 VP kill x objectives.
Was able to get 2-5 allmost every turn and in one case even 8 VP.

First game was close model wise but l won with 10+ VP ahead, second i tabled him turn 5 with even more points.
Burned almost through the objective deck both games without caring about the markers.

Also gonna add another Dragsta, love the ability to shockjump and still hit on 4+ with the shock rifle or simply race around with 14" movement. Like him even better than the Scrapjet right now.
Those 20 Gitz also rock against Primaris.

Was thinking about adding another flyer for more flexibility.
Maybe leave the Naut and get another flyer and 2-3 buggies. (Or upgrade the Pikk Up to a second Waggon with also 10 Gitz.)
Love the Naut model but I have the feeling adding a flyer and some buggies will get me more damage with all the rerolls.
Also more chances for lost excess damage from enemy shooting.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
there is no debate, there is no need for a faq.

The freeboota aura is +1 to hit, which is a modifier.
Open Topped specifically says it confers modifier bonuses and penalties to its occupants. Technically if you could put nonfreebootas in a freeboota vehicle they would get the bonus too, because theyre not getting the freeboota bonus theyre getting the open topped transfer

How is that needing a faq?

Yes, but they have issued FAQs in the past that undermine that literal wording. For example, transports that can ignore heavy weapons penalties when moving don't pass that on to their occupants, even though the RAW arguably says they should because it is a modifier the transport enjoys, and therefore that should pass to the occupants under the RAW.

There is also the FAQ that says that auras don't affect models in open-topped vehicles. There is no caveat there that "although auras don't hit the embarked unit, any aura that the transport is impacted by will pass on to them because it hits the transport." If that's what they intended, it would have been highly misleading to answer the FAQ the way they did.

These FAQs make it sound like the only thing they meant by "restrictions and modifiers" were like the examples they actually listed: that embarked units count as moving if the transport moved, count as falling back if the transport fell back, can't shoot if the transport advanced or is in combat, etc. Not that actual +s and -s to hit from buffs or debuffs pass on to them.

So it seems like an open issue to me. The whole open-topped rule is an absolute mess, honestly. It's totally unclear what is impacted and what isn't. They really need rewrite the rule in a way that is clear.

Yes they have faq'd directly against rules. Doesnt mean that can be applied to everything similar because they directly said one doesnt.
Auras do not affect open-topped vehicles, correct. There also isnt any auras orks have access to that would even be considered a modifier anyway (rerolls are not a modifier). A freeboota bonus is not an aura, Auras do not have triggers, they are just passive buffs in a short range. And again, the effect is not affecting the unit inside its affecting the transport so moot point.

I dont see how its a complete mess. It says it confers modifiers, freeboota +1 is a modifier, and that particular modifier effect was not faq'd to not work (because yes pre-faq Battlefortress technically allowed occupants to not suffer heavy penalties, but it was faq'd so now THAT modifier doesnt get transferred)

If you really want to try and debate it, take it to YMDC. But there is literally nothing other than what you basically said of "they faq'd it for not preventing heavy moving penalties so naturally that means all modifiers" which is NOT how that stuff works. As of right now unless they include it in that faq otherwise it works, and is also literally the ONLY thing that works that way (as everything else isnt a modifier, or was the aforementioned heavy faq)

BRB FAQ 1.2:

Q: If a transport with the Open-topped ability (e.g. a Trukk) is within range of an aura ability, are units that are embarked upon that transport affected by that ability? A: No.

There's nothing here that suggests the type of aura matters; the FAQ applies to any aura, including, for example, a +1 to hit aura. It's just a blanket rule that auras that give the transport an ability don't carry over to the embarked units, despite that being a modifier. This straight-up says that a transport being effected by an aura doesn't transfer that aura to the embarked passengers, no matter what the aura does. So a +1 to hit aura doesn't transfer.

The freebooters kulture is essentially a 24 inch aura that triggers when the unit with the keyword eliminates something, that lasts until the end of the phase. Nothing in that FAQ suggests that whether something is technically called an aura vs being an aura in fact has any impact. Aura isn't a keyword. It's just a description meaning an ability that covers anything within a certain radius. Nothing in that FAQ suggests that a different rule would apply to the kulture than applies to any other ability that covers x inches. I mean it's possible - anything is possible - but looking at that FAQ, there's no reason to think it would be different. It seems really odd to be arguing that it's totally clear that even though a +1 to hit aura wouldn't pass through to the embarked units, the +1 to hit kulture that is triggered by being within 24 inches of a unit does transfer, because that's somehow totally different. I mean you yourself even called the freeboterz effect an aura two posts ago, before changing your mind when I pointed out the FAQ about auras.

Based on that FAQ, if I had to say it was clear one way or the other, I'd say it's clear it doesn't apply. But I don't think it's clear. I think it's completely muddy, because the rule says one thing then the FAQs say something very different.

It's fine if you don't agree. I don't want to get into a silly argument. I was just explaining why I thought a FAQ was necessary to clarify it, because you had acted like it was stupid to even suggest there's a need for one.

 flandarz wrote:
I, obviously, don't know your meta, but Snipers aren't a huge issue in my own. And the SAG (and even the SSAG) are far cheaper than a 300 pt group of Gitz anyway.

At least one unit of eliminators has become a staple for every marine player of any color, since they are great game value for the money you spend on them. Then again, if you don't deploy first, it's easy to just outrange them.

Never lost a single SAG due to snipers, all you need to do is proper deploying

[quote=Grotrebel 767149 10713001 e110680d0ea4efb181e729b0aded6248.jpg@Jidmah: Used the tactic you posted in the DG tactic thread about a week ago and build my tactical objective deck without caring about holding stuff.
My list was extremely fast and quite killy with all the DS rerolls and lots of 2 / 3 / D6 Dmg.
Basicly my deck was all the kill x stuff i could achive, some stuff like area denial and about 4 secure x cards to get exactly 18 cards. (New CA missions of course.)

And further on ability to ignore moving penalty for heavy weapons is not modifier. It's ability to ignore modifier but not modifier itself. It does not grant +1 or -1. So just because that doesn't transfer is no evidence either way.

+1 transfers unless GW decides to rewrite the rule.

Who said you can't board Flashgitz on non freebooterz veichle???

Think it was non-freeboota to non-freebota with idea to point out that if you could do that then the +1 transport(freeboota) would get from freeboota kultur would transfer to the non-freeboota occupants since it's not unit benefitting from kulture they don't have but from modifier that transport benefits which do transfer to unit inside.

Moot point as such as it's illegal but was used to demonstrate modifier transfering to occupants.

The Squiggoth lacks any <clan> requirement on passengers.(unlike Gargantuan Squiggoth).

Lysit wrote:
The Squiggoth lacks any <clan> requirement on passengers.(unlike Gargantuan Squiggoth).

GW already announced that they will be updating FW rules. Just wait until then

tneva82 wrote:
Think it was non-freeboota to non-freebota with idea to point out that if you could do that then the +1 transport(freeboota) would get from freeboota kultur would transfer to the non-freeboota occupants since it's not unit benefitting from kulture they don't have but from modifier that transport benefits which do transfer to unit inside.

Moot point as such as it's illegal but was used to demonstrate modifier transfering to occupants.

Not as moot as you'd think - if Thrakka is no longer clan-locked, he would benefit from the +1 to hit for his shooting if he is aboard a freeboota transport.

The FAQ and transfer of Modifiers do not conflict with each other. The "aura" isn't affecting the unit inside the Transport. It's affecting the Transport. And as per Open-Topped, all modifiers and restrictions affecting the Transport are transferred to the unit inside the Transport.

 Jidmah wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Think it was non-freeboota to non-freebota with idea to point out that if you could do that then the +1 transport(freeboota) would get from freeboota kultur would transfer to the non-freeboota occupants since it's not unit benefitting from kulture they don't have but from modifier that transport benefits which do transfer to unit inside.

Moot point as such as it's illegal but was used to demonstrate modifier transfering to occupants.

Not as moot as you'd think - if Thrakka is no longer clan-locked, he would benefit from the +1 to hit for his shooting if he is aboard a freeboota transport.

That's one big if though. There's no evidence whatsoever Thraka will not be clan locked.

edit: Not to mention that being basically dreadnought sized he could very well be locked out of being transported...

Awesome
For orks I don't know whether I'd do the same, as I usually win my games by holding objectives - I really struggle to kill something during the last turns, since the vast majority of my army has been blown apart by then. I'll give it a try soon though

Yes the struggle is real. In the first game i had just 20 grot and some characters left turn 5. For that reason i kept slay the warlord and asassinate + an easy secure x for the last turns so i can score them more easily.
That new missions really help to keep controll over which objective you can safe for later.

Agree, the whole trick to winning 2019 maelstrom seems to be scoring as man d3 VP objectives as possible. I might toy around with the defend objectives though, since those could ramp up some nice 2 VP in the first turns when no one wants to get near your army or when you have some gretchin hiding out of LOS.

I was thinking the same, but because most units are rather squishy i chose secure over hold to take the guaranteed 1 VP over the potential 2VP. Might try 2 secure and 2 hold next game.
There were some flying units and indirect fire that could have got into my defending stuff with no problem.
Also i put the markers more midfield those games so he had to come out to the open in front of my guns.
Previously most games so far had at least 4 objectives in the 4 corners behind some buildings so i can collect easy points with my grot - and many opponents tend to do the same except DG or possessed bomb who gain midboard controll turn 2 easily and want to have as many markers there as possible.

Choosing secure or defend depends a lot on which army i am up against. I made it a habbit to keep secure / hold nr 1-3 or 1-4 in my deck, so i can quickly see which side has more hold / defend options if i get to choose sides.

This matches my feeling about those two buggies as well. The scrapjet is too slow and the low AP makes it unreliable. It basically has to drive directly at the enemy to be able to threaten valuable targets, while the dragsta can drive circles around the enemy.

Good to see i am not the only one!
Still the Scrapjet is worth it as well being the only reliably buggy with decent cc and good chances to dish out some additional mortal wounds, but most of the time you dont really want to get into cc. Except you need to finish of a weakened unit or some odd scouts that survived shooting.
Too bad the Squiggbuggy sucks so much. I use the Boosta Blasta as well because i have the model, but besides having 36" and being cheaper i am not so convinced. Maybe i`ll convert his turret for another Dragsta and keep it optional, at least that model makes this quite easy.
Snazzwaggon is also mid-tier at best for me, that 1 Dmg does`t do anything for me i need and that -1 to hit is a fun gimmick at best.

Want to add some more buggies so i guess i`ll go with 3:1 Dragsta:Scrapjets and maybe 1 Blasta if i really need to cut 20 points?

I really like the naut as a bullet magnet and for its 36" gun. If he hits enemy lines, he also plows through primaris easily. Personally, I'm not too convinced of battlewagons in this type of army, so I'd rather drop it entirely and instead use a second trukk or maybe tellyport/jump the flash gits in.

Yeah his T8 18 wounds really helps! That gun is nice but i always feel like playing 3-4 buggies / flyer instead would give me more dakka.
On the other hand most armys won`t ignore him stomping forward which helps my waggons and buggies to survive longer.
Flyers in the opponents half of the battlefield and the naut are the only thing that keeps the enemy AT busy enough to ignore my Gitz in waggons / Pikk Ups.
Also his BS does not decrease so he gets fokused down a lot. Him shooting twice can be quite scary as an alternative for the SSAG.
Leaving him would mean those waggons get attention far earlier. Thats also the reason why i love the waggon, because he can tank some shots before the poor gitz have to walk.
Tried tellyporting them as well but that gave them 1 turn BS5+ shooting and getting shot off the board afterwards. :(
Might try fielding 2 x 10 in 2 Pikk Ups and keeping them out of LOS turn one.
Or tellyport 10 in a Pikk Up.


So whats your opinion on the flyers in those kind of lists?
Haven`t found any reason at all to field Blitzas / Bommas so far and my Dakkajet & Wazbom worked great most of the time.
Second Dakkajet would come cheaper, but a second Wazbom could help with KFF for some buggies near them and decent dakka.


My idea for the next game would be:

SSAG + SAG + KFF
30 Grot
2 Wazbom + Dakkajet
Naut
3 Dragsta
2 x Pikk Up with 10 Gitz

Or tellyport 20 Gitz and switch Pikk Ups and some gitz for another 2 buggies or second battalion.
But 10 Gitz is the lowest i`ll go, really love the models.
Any ideas how to optimize?

 Grotrebel wrote:
Choosing secure or defend depends a lot on which army i am up against. I made it a habbit to keep secure / hold nr 1-3 or 1-4 in my deck, so i can quickly see which side has more hold / defend options if i get to choose sides.

Keep in mind that, according to the rules, you have to build your deck before you place a single objective or roll to see who deploys first. There is a grey area on how objectives are numbered, but I suggest not gaming that.

Want to add some more buggies so i guess i`ll go with 3:1 Dragsta:Scrapjets and maybe 1 Blasta if i really need to cut 20 points?

I'd probably split 3:2:1 across dragstas, scrapjets and kbb. While KBB aren't doing tons of damage, they are another buggy on the board that can tag shooty units, push troops of objectives or try to kill a character with mortal wounds.

So whats your opinion on the flyers in those kind of lists?
Haven`t found any reason at all to field Blitzas / Bommas so far and my Dakkajet & Wazbom worked great most of the time.
Second Dakkajet would come cheaper, but a second Wazbom could help with KFF for some buggies near them and decent dakka.

I have experimented a lot with burna bommers since the skorcha missile buff, but they are a very hit and miss unit. They are awesome if your opponent is trying to screen his stuff with infantry, as you can bomb hole into their screen during your movement phase, allowing a unit to move through the screen in the same movement phase. I've exploited this a lot with warbikers, catching many opponent on the wrong foot. The bombs also work well against units like dark reapers, lootas (no grot shields!) or DA helblasters. Worst case, they still kill 2-3 primaris. The downside is that they have to move really close to the enemy army, which usually means that they are in range of every krak grenade, every plasma pistol and every smite. Everyone who has gotten caught by the explosion once will never risk having it drop on their heads ever again. Should it survive dropping both bombs, you basically got a weaker version of a dakkajet with skorcha missiles, grot twin big shot and two supa-shootas.
However, if the enemy is not trying to screen and there is no good target to bomb, you have a plane which doesn't contribute a whole lot to game with all the downsides the dakkajet doesn't have. I suggest giving it a try, it has done worked great and terribly for me, extremely dependent on who you are facing. Necrons, for example, don't care a whole lot if you bomb down 15 warriors unless you can finish the unit.
The wazzbom is hands down the best plane for a buggy list, since it softens alpha-strikes and can kill a wide array of units which are dangerous to your vehicles - it is expensive though. Dakkajet is the budget option for playing it safe, just stay at max range and kill units.

My idea for the next game would be:

Spoiler:

SSAG + SAG + KFF
30 Grot
2 Wazbom + Dakkajet
Naut
3 Dragsta
2 x Pikk Up with 10 Gitz

Or tellyport 20 Gitz and switch Pikk Ups and some gitz for another 2 buggies or second battalion.
But 10 Gitz is the lowest i`ll go, really love the models.

Any ideas how to optimize?

That's a really low model count though. I'd be worried of getting tabled.

There's nothing here that suggests the type of aura matters; the FAQ applies to any aura, including, for example, a +1 to hit aura. It's just a blanket rule that auras that give the transport an ability don't carry over to the embarked units, despite that being a modifier. This straight-up says that a transport being effected by an aura doesn't transfer that aura to the embarked passengers, no matter what the aura does. So a +1 to hit aura doesn't transfer.

As many have pointed out before i woke up this morning, Open-Topped and the faq you mentioned do not conflict.
I have said it multiple times, the unit inside is NOT being affected by any aura/freeboota bonus, the transport is. Transport is affected by a defined modifier, thus it transfers it.
Badrukk for instance would not transfer both because the trukk isnt even affected by it (Flashgitz keyword, not Freeboota) and its rerolls anyway so even if the trukk was affected by it the units inside wouldnt get it.
[hypothetical] if for instance they suddenly allow auras to affect Open Topped and didnt watch their wording to counteract the current behavior, Freebootas in a Freeboota Transport would actually get +2 to hit because now the aura is affecting them [again, hypothetical not actually possible atm]

And yeah @Emicrania it was nonfreeboota in a freeboota transport, which currently is not allowed, as an example to this whole +1 transferring argument.

On the whole FW rules thing: i personally would just avoid FW atm. Ork units in FW are so janky that even the few that work are probably going to get an overhaul because theyre still weird. I swear the ork portion of the rules were only half done when that writer died and they put it out anyway.

Keep in mind that, according to the rules, you have to build your deck before you place a single objective or roll to see who deploys first. There is a grey area on how objectives are numbered, but I suggest not gaming that.

Yeah we build decks, then place markers. So in my example i would take secure 1-4, and when choosing sides i would take the one that gives best chances getting those 4.
And of course i am not pulling any illegal stunts to get me a advantage here.
On the other side, to make it completely random it would be best to let the dice decide which marker is which after choosing sides.
Actually never thought about that before because we used numbered markers since playing 40k.^^

I'd probably split 3:2:1 across dragstas, scrapjets and kbb. While KBB aren't doing tons of damage, they are another buggy on the board that can tag shooty units, push troops of objectives or try to kill a character with mortal wounds.

Fair enough, sounds like a good combination.

I have experimented a lot with burna bommers since the skorcha missile buff, but they are a very hit and miss unit. They are awesome if your opponent is trying to screen his stuff with infantry, as you can bomb hole into their screen during your movement phase, allowing a unit to move through the screen in the same movement phase. I've exploited this a lot with warbikers, catching many opponent on the wrong foot. The bombs also work well against units like dark reapers, lootas (no grot shields!) or DA helblasters. Worst case, they still kill 2-3 primaris. The downside is that they have to move really close to the enemy army, which usually means that they are in range of every krak grenade, every plasma pistol and every smite. Everyone who has gotten caught by the explosion once will never risk having it drop on their heads ever again. Should it survive dropping both bombs, you basically got a weaker version of a dakkajet with skorcha missiles, grot twin big shot and two supa-shootas.
However, if the enemy is not trying to screen and there is no good target to bomb, you have a plane which doesn't contribute a whole lot to game with all the downsides the dakkajet doesn't have. I suggest giving it a try, it has done worked great and terribly for me, extremely dependent on who you are facing. Necrons, for example, don't care a whole lot if you bomb down 15 warriors unless you can finish the unit.
The wazzbom is hands down the best plane for a buggy list, since it softens alpha-strikes and can kill a wide array of units which are dangerous to your vehicles - it is expensive though. Dakkajet is the budget option for playing it safe, just stay at max range and kill units.

Sounds about what i was thinking. The burna bomba gives at least some Dakka besides the bomb and now that i think about it, his mortal wound potential might draw fire from other units.
Agree that it might be kind of a one-trick pony that doesn`t work against a good opponent.
I guess i`ll just try to convert / magnetise a Wazbom / Burna combination then. Or simply give it all the dakka.

That's a really low model count though. I'd be worried of getting tabled.

Yes it strikes hard but goes down quick as well. Unless i get a brutal alpha strike i loose 3/4 of my army in most games.
Biggest advantage for me is i get to play quick games and love the style.

The question is, what might compensate that model count best. 3rd grot battalion gives CP but gets tabled as well.
Adding boys might work but 2 x 30 takes away almost 500 points and gives the opponent targets for their infantry killing weapons.
On the other hand they might give me some breathing room and tellyport in turn 2 after i cleaned some screaning.
Alternative takes?
Trying to make the vehicle heavy list as competitive as it gets for this seasons tournaments but really don`t want to go simply 25 lootas, 90 boys and some smashas in 3 battalions which was my way to go so far but got kinda boring.
Our local tournaments use mostly Mahlstrom + Eternal war combination, so no ITC format.

 Grotrebel wrote:
Yeah we build decks, then place markers. So in my example i would take secure 1-4, and when choosing sides i would take the one that gives best chances getting those 4.

Well assuming yout to choose. Half the time you have to hope opponent gives you the one you were hoping. Assuming 1-4 are even on same area of board and not spread out over the table

The one thing I have never seen good answer is how to decide who puts up what. This is particularly interest for necrons who have maelstrom card that involves controlling all even or all odd objectives...

Well you could roll off to see who places objective marker 1. The other player rolls a dice to see what marker he places next(rerolling on what markers have already been placed) and continue like that for the rest of the markers. That seems fair.

Alternatively shuffle them randomly and both get 3 randomly.

Guess before it didn't have much impact but necrons have it and guess with new card building you could try to game around that as well a bit where it could matter. Interesting.

@Vineheart, are you 100% about that? Matthew Hanney went with a ES trukk with Flashgitz in it and ended up 74th at LVO

I really like the idea of a buggy list too. I want to take it in a somewhat different direction, and try something really wild: an evil sunz/kult of speed battalion with deffkilla w/ the ES warlord trait that lets you fall back and charge w/in 6 , plus at least 3 megatrakks. Evil sunz megatrakks move 14~19, or 24 if you use the 2cp strat on one, so they're really not that slow. The idea is to take advantage of the fact that the megatrakks can advance and shoot with no penalty, and are also quite good in melee, especially on the charge w/ the mortal wound potential. Take a wazbom with KFF and you can shield them T1, and that's actually a ton of wounds they have to chew through before they start destroying your buggies, at least 12 with the 5+ invuln. Or against armies that really can chew through all that T1, you can even put the megatrakks into the tellyporta and the wazbom way off in the farthest corner of the board to avoid the alpha strike, and play for the T2 charge instead.

For the rest of the army, I'm thinking to basically just flood the table with a ton of grots - 60 or 90, depending on whether I want to take 2 or 3 battalions. Take one battalion as DS/DW and get the standard SSAG, plus a weirdboy with da jump to toss the grots around - there are a surprising amount of tricks you can pull with grots, and even if they just force the opponent to waste a unit's shots to kill them, that's often still a victory. The wazbom goes here too, for the rerolls.

For the third battalion or fast attack detachment, I am thinking to add a warboss on warbike + some stormboyz - probably 3 units of 10. The object of these is not really to kill stuff but just to tie it up; between DS and fly + the ES bonuses these guys can charge almost anything on the board, moving over enemy units to do it if they survive more than a turn. The warboss hangs out with the vehicles if you're putting the stormboyz in DS, and can delete almost anything he charges, especially if you spend the CP for the additional relic and give him the uberklaw. Warboss on warbike still is legal, right?

That leaves like 400 points for other stuff. More megatrakks? Some shokkjumps? Another wazbom? A unit of 30 boyz? Maybe even a bunch of mek gunz to sit with the SSAG, though these are likely to just get wiped out T1 if you choose to take the T2 approach.

Basically the idea is to have a very mobile army that can either go aggressive from T1, or shield most of its units T1 then really hit T2 with a bunch of DSing units that can all make charges at a 72% success rate, tying up a huge proportion of the enemy's army in a single charge phase.

I see two major weaknesses with this list that probably make it not super competitive: you're potentially giving your opponent a lot of points from destroyed units given that pretty much everything in your army is either a MSU or a fragile vehicle, and against armies that can fall back and shoot, a lot of your disruption potential is eliminated. But it seems like it'd be a blast to play, and the sheer surprise factor could win you some games.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Emicrania wrote:
@Vineheart, are you 100% about that? Matthew Hanney went with a ES trukk with Flashgitz in it and ended up 74th at LVO

Flash gitz are a special case. You can take them in an ES trukk if you want, because the transports specifically allow you to take either <clan> or flash gitz.

 Emicrania wrote:
@Vineheart, are you 100% about that? Matthew Hanney went with a ES trukk with Flashgitz in it and ended up 74th at LVO

vineheart was talking about something like goff nobz inside a freeboota transport.

The buggy style, buzzing around seems like good fun, but honestly, I'd keep them deffskulls. They get stronger in shooting and combat.

You are very likely still charging on turn 2 anyway even without advancing turn 1, unless they've fallen back into their deployment zone. You can keep some fast elements if you want as ES (Stormboyz), but you are losing a lot of consistency just to move a bit faster. Heck, once you're out of KFF, that random 6+ invul is a god send.

I got an heart attack there for a second.... My list for next week GT was in and couldn't change it

Sorry Vine if I misunderstood