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Of course, that's what I meant by that we didn't "really get that unit". I should've specified but it just seemed like such an opportunity to update the boys without trying to invalidate hundreds of models.

S5 boyz are alright but the fact that they're clan locked to Goffs makes them a no-go for me. Just having the option of buying them for 8-9 points each (and a fresh new kit) would perfect IMO.

I really don't think that there is design space between boyz, kommandoz, burna boyz and nobz. Skarboyz would invalidate one or more of these.

PiñaColada wrote:
Of course, that's what I meant by that we didn't "really get that unit". I should've specified but it just seemed like such an opportunity to update the boys without trying to invalidate hundreds of models.

S5 boyz are alright but the fact that they're clan locked to Goffs makes them a no-go for me. Just having the option of buying them for 8-9 points each (and a fresh new kit) would perfect IMO.

That would take away from goffs though making that clan even less relevant

I don't know if I feel like burna boyz and kommandos are relevant for the comparison but I could see a unit slotting in between basic boys an nobz personally. Nobs would still be both S5 and with a 4+ and retain weapon options, skarboys would simply be +1S boys (and 'ardboys 4+ save boys)

Tneva, this was before we got the ork codex so I didn't know about the strat back then obviously. Even now, I would gladly see goffs get something else remove the stratagem option of getting skar/'ardboys in favor of a new datasheet.

I used to think that some improvements to the culture and some decent stratagems might make goff viable, but after my recent game against the PA-improved World Eaters, I've come to the conclusion that melee armies (and therfore goffs) are just not meant to be in 8th.

I tabled the poor sod in T2 with my buggy list and feel bad about it.

PiñaColada wrote:
I don't know if I feel like burna boyz and kommandos are relevant for the comparison but I could see a unit slotting in between basic boys an nobz personally. Nobs would still be both S5 and with a 4+ and retain weapon options, skarboys would simply be +1S boys (and 'ardboys 4+ save boys)

Tneva, this was before we got the ork codex so I didn't know about the strat back then obviously. Even now, I would gladly see goffs get something else remove the stratagem option of getting skar/'ardboys in favor of a new datasheet.

One problem with that is that 8th edition seems to lack the 0-1, 0-2 limit on unit choices and for something like scar boys I would be in favor of a built in limit on the number of those units unless there was a unit that unlocked them as a choice above that limit.

I think a CC oriented army could work, as long as the CC units were cost effective, or there was some way to deny your opponent the ability to Fall-Back.

So, I'd give Goffs a +1 S sub-Faction Trait, and change the Skar Boyz Strat to be pay 1-2 CP and target enemy unit cannot Fall-Back. That'd be enough to make Goffs a viable choice.

 Jidmah wrote:
You can have skarboyz from a stratagem though?

S5 boyz aren't terrible either from my experience, it's just that the whole "running boyz up the board"-thing doesn't work, which kind of throws a wrench into the whole goff idea.

As a sort of aside to clans being useful.

If we get a build your own clan trait that gives plus 1 charge, do we think ES will go extinct?

I guess it sort of depends what other clan traits would be up for grabs/which new ones they'd introduce. You could start to make some really strong boyz hordes if you got to combine +1 charge with a 6++ or extra hits on 6's (they wouldn't be goffs so yo couldn't "skarboyz" them right)?

PiñaColada wrote:
I guess it sort of depends what other clan traits would be up for grabs/which new ones they'd introduce. You could start to make some really strong boyz hordes if you got to combine +1 charge with a 6++ or extra hits on 6's (they wouldn't be goffs so yo couldn't "skarboyz" them right)?

I’ll wager there will be at least one good combat trait, be it lucky ( only hit and wound, not damage) or a defensive buff like you stated.

It just sounds like that entire clans purpose in competitive lists is solely based on that bonus charge and nothing else and I would be shocked if +1 charge wasn’t in play. (ES will be unique as they get movement advance and charge).

Depending on how they sliced it, the DS re-rolls and +1 charge would be pretty great. If they fluffed them as "kustom waaaghs" that worked like successor chapters (so kept access to the parent strats/relics/etc.), you might be able to get the Scarboyz, but not if they're klans. That would let you roll up as psuedo-DS or FB and get access to shooting twice by being BM successors, though, which would probably be where the power was.

I'm just hoping for something that works with grots. I've got 20 kanz on my desk, and I'd love a reason to finish converting them.

Kanz getting something would be my #1 wish, honestly I don't think it'd be crazy just giving them 'ere we go and access to clan kulturs. The grots in the kanz are cowards but they also believe themselves to be invincible until one of their own dies so giving them 'ere we go doesn't seem all that far fetched. They often go on that "maiden voyage rampage" on a bunch of their former ork oppressors so they aren't afraid of getting stuck in.

They'd still have gak morale and wouldn't be able to be deepstruck due to no ork stratagems and also still just WS5+.

 Trimarius wrote:
Depending on how they sliced it, the DS re-rolls and +1 charge would be pretty great. If they fluffed them as "kustom waaaghs" that worked like successor chapters (so kept access to the parent strats/relics/etc.), you might be able to get the Scarboyz, but not if they're klans. That would let you roll up as psuedo-DS or FB and get access to shooting twice by being BM successors, though, which would probably be where the power would be.

You’re definitely right. Lucky + something seems to be where the custom chapters have gone for Eldar and SM. I don’t know if DS will be supplanted because they have super lucky and a 6++ ( really useful on a lot of our models), but I could see certain units preferring limited lucky if they got something else, like +1 charge.

I don’t think it’ll be successor. There’s no real fluff reason behind it like there is with SM, and I don’t think anyone else has gotten it.

 Jidmah wrote:
I think AAE didn't mean updated MANz, but rather a new/updated unit instead of MANz.

Sorry I should've been clearer - what I'd really like to see is a new/upgrade Sprue for Meganobz to turn them into Bullyboyz, or just new Bullyboyz models. I want Ghazzy's personal guard to be a specific, new unit. Now that'd be cool IMO


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:
Of course, that's what I meant by that we didn't "really get that unit". I should've specified but it just seemed like such an opportunity to update the boys without trying to invalidate hundreds of models.

S5 boyz are alright but the fact that they're clan locked to Goffs makes them a no-go for me. Just having the option of buying them for 8-9 points each (and a fresh new kit) would perfect IMO.

That would take away from goffs though making that clan even less relevant

So surely the answer is to give something to Goffs to make them more relevant? They're not relevant anyway. Even with the specific strat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:
Expecting updated MAN'z AND Ghaz...that's greedy. Orks are orks and not marines.

Besides there's about half a dozen kits minimum I would rather see redone than MAN's.

I don't disagree but how is it greedy to expect the same as Marines?

I'd rather they bring back the Big Mek with KFF.
The fact we don't have a generic Big Mek choice because of that no model no rule nonsense is just embarrassing.
If they do update the MANZ set, a MAWB option better be there.

Footmek with KFF is in CA19, they just for some reason didnt give him a dataslate.

Its obvious hes just the same statline w/ no options, base choppa and KFF gear.

More than likely there will be an entry in PA for his stats though to shutup the people saying "No dataslate so illegal!"

Yeah, its why I haven't started fielding him yet, because I just know that people are going to ask me to see his stats, even though logically it would be the exact same as the Big Mek with SAG, just with a KFF instead of SAG.

but does he have options? Does he have some fancy pistol he can take? Does he carry choppa? Slugga? or unarmed with KFF?

logic would dictate he's literally the KFF version of the SSAG

No options (relics aside of course)
Choppa (its on the model for the KFF variant at least)
No gun (not even slugga) as the SAG/KFF took its slot
Same exact statline and rules.

Anybody who tries to pull that crap to keep you from using a footmek KFF is just trying to be a prick.

I dont expect a new model for it but i do expect them to say something about it in the PA, since like i said its in the CA19 so it has to exist.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
logic would dictate he's literally the KFF version of the SSAG

No options (relics aside of course)
Choppa (its on the model for the KFF variant at least)
No gun (not even slugga) as the SAG/KFF took its slot
Same exact statline and rules.

Anybody who tries to pull that crap to keep you from using a footmek KFF is just trying to be a prick.

I dont expect a new model for it but i do expect them to say something about it in the PA, since like i said its in the CA19 so it has to exist.

Since when is GW logical?

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for you to have a datasheet for a model you're using. While most people I know wouldn't have an issue with it, it's something that you should still ask about.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
logic would dictate he's literally the KFF version of the SSAG

No options (relics aside of course)
Choppa (its on the model for the KFF variant at least)
No gun (not even slugga) as the SAG/KFF took its slot
Same exact statline and rules.

Anybody who tries to pull that crap to keep you from using a footmek KFF is just trying to be a prick.

I dont expect a new model for it but i do expect them to say something about it in the PA, since like i said its in the CA19 so it has to exist.

Since when is GW logical?

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for you to have a datasheet for a model you're using. While most people I know wouldn't have an issue with it, it's something that you should still ask about.

Yea I agree with this, it'd be nice to know if the KFFMek has any options to take and what they are, if any.

If anyone had doubts who are staring PA6, SW on WD's cover. Not even with Ghazs rerelease do we get the spotlight. Arg

Orkimedez_Atalaya wrote:
If anyone had doubts who are staring PA6, SW on WD's cover. Not even with Ghazs rerelease do we get the spotlight. Arg

Classic GW, but I must admit I felt there was a remote, slight, thin, tiny chance we would be the poster boyz for once... oh well business as usual

its just yet another definitive proof that GW favors imperium of any flavor.
Because Space Wolves are one of the least popular imperial armies. Not the least but really damn low.

Everyone in my area like the models but HATE their lore so nobody plays them. Except 1 guy who isnt a lore person in the slightest. The best way to describe Space Wolves is "My First DnD Character" where rules dont apply to you because youre just badass like that.

We haven't seen the cover yet, maybe, just maybe Ghaz is on the front?

Honestly the PA books should have had a clash cover picture between the factions inside.

I have a few Tyranid and Guard friends that are annoyed their book doesnt have their faction on it lol

 Vineheart01 wrote:
logic would dictate he's literally the KFF version of the SSAG

No options (relics aside of course)
Choppa (its on the model for the KFF variant at least)
No gun (not even slugga) as the SAG/KFF took its slot
Same exact statline and rules.

Anybody who tries to pull that crap to keep you from using a footmek KFF is just trying to be a prick.

I dont expect a new model for it but i do expect them to say something about it in the PA, since like i said its in the CA19 so it has to exist.

A new model would be amazing, but yeah, this is probably right.

I'd love for him to retain the ability to take kombi weapons at least. Tossing on a rokkit on a DS Big Mek is actually kind of nice. can try to contribute instead of just picking his nose.

Valrak has "confirmed" a Orks vs Wolves box set. No info on the contents though, but save up yer teef!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbaB6yGKj4U

tulun wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
logic would dictate he's literally the KFF version of the SSAG

No options (relics aside of course)
Choppa (its on the model for the KFF variant at least)
No gun (not even slugga) as the SAG/KFF took its slot
Same exact statline and rules.

Anybody who tries to pull that crap to keep you from using a footmek KFF is just trying to be a prick.

I dont expect a new model for it but i do expect them to say something about it in the PA, since like i said its in the CA19 so it has to exist.

A new model would be amazing, but yeah, this is probably right.

I'd love for him to retain the ability to take kombi weapons at least. Tossing on a rokkit on a DS Big Mek is actually kind of nice. can try to contribute instead of just picking his nose.

I prefer a KMB to get most out of the DS trait and it gets an additional AP on top. And i have a converted model with this loadout which i use for non-tournament games.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Honestly the PA books should have had a clash cover picture between the factions inside.

I have a few Tyranid and Guard friends that are annoyed their book doesnt have their faction on it lol

This!
All my armies had the luck to get some Marines on their cover.

Some reason i didn`t buy the limited Ork codex. Stupid Tau in the center of the cover blasting a poor boy? No thanks.

Agree, I also use the KMB onf the KFF mek for deff skull shenanigans. I even have an original GW KMB arm on one of them, from the "Big Mek with KMB" that got released at the same time as the KFF mek and the metal SAG.