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There is a possibility that it is a house Goliath CC weapon. I still think it's an ork item, but there's always that possibility.

Ghaz getting his head lopped off by anyone, Yuck. New fluff is garbage. Booking so bad Vince McMahon wouldn't even do it.
GW what are you smoking?

Will we get spoilers every day this week? Is that the usual schtick with PA?

tulun wrote:
Will we get spoilers every day this week? Is that the usual schtick with PA?

I certainly hope so!

In all honesty, probably not. The spoilers/GW articles with datasheets/staratgems etc are usually during the week leading up to the preoder. We haven't had a preview for the preorder yet, so I'm guessing we're still one week out.

Basically on this sunday (15th) they'll probably say what's available to preorder on the next saturday (21st) and we'll get articles between the 16th to 20th. There might be articles before that since this is a bigger release (and we've already had some with Makari) but that would not be in accordance to the "standard pattern"

 warhead01 wrote:
Ghaz getting his head lopped off by anyone, Yuck. New fluff is garbage. Booking so bad Vince McMahon wouldn't even do it.
GW what are you smoking?

Well I mean, he started by getting a bolter round to the head... so maybe this will make him even stronger than before?

Yeah, it looks like an upgrade option for a character given that there aren't any kits that would use it outside of a new commando kit mayyyybe, but its more likely a character piece. Just glad to see we'll be getting more than just ghazzy and makari at this point.

We really need an updated Big Mek with KFF. I hope they actually release one along side with the datasheet.

Didn't we got a rumor engine some time ago with a bulky arm stretched out? Like an Ork arm?

yeah and it was holding a pair of binoculars that were very not-ork.
I originally thought that was an orgryn but the ideal time to release any guard stuff is pass so....dunno now

The binocular image is definitely not orky. I thought so at first, too, but as was pointed out to me, the hand holding those binoculars 100% does not belong to an ork or gretchin.

The stocky but muscular look of that arm most closely matches IG ratlings from what I've seen so that one is almost certainly not an Ork. But the boot with metal teef and this new RE from today basically has to be Orks so we do have something in the pipeline

I know that the Big Mek with KFF is one of the missing datasheets. I believe the only other one is technically the Warboss on Bike under the FW section (which should be promptly given once FW actually release the updated Index rules). I don't think there's anything else in CA that lack as far as datasheets go do we?

I guess the bigger question is if we'll only be getting a small clampack release or if they'll actually release anything else alongside this. To be honest, deffkoptas would be one of the ideal kits to update alongside this, since it matches the tech theme of a Big Mek release. It's also a really old metal sculpt since they don't have the AOBR ones available anymore. Now that I think of it, could this be the buzzsaw option that used to be available for deffkoptas?

 Jidmah wrote:

 Kaptin_Grubkrumpa wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/03/10/the-rumour-engine-march-10th-2020/

Orks in the rumor engine?!

Automatically Appended Next Post:

gungo wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Thrakka is by far not the most powerful ork since the heresy. He might be in the top 100. Seriously, you have absolutely no right to complain about new fluff if you don't even know what has be established for almost a decade.

Feel free to provide an example of a bigger more powerful ork then ghaz that existed after the beast arises timeline...

Way to move the goalpost by two millennia

And ork warbosses size is proportional to the size of thier waaagh energy.

Citation needed.

My issue with this shoddy lore isn’t the fact Ragnar is one of the better space wolf fighters it’s the fact a single generic NON-primarus space marine was able to defeat ghaz...

Look, he is not "one of the better space wolf fighters". He is the best space wolf fighter alive, including their chapter master, wolf lords, and all those primaris guys who have been in the fridge for most of the last century. That's what a Chapter Champion is.
And it's pretty likely that many other chapters who don't rely on close combat don't have someone that could go toe to toe with him.

who is currently larger then a deffdread. It’s a disgrace they made the most powerful ork a basic marine punching bag. But hey at least random named non primarus space marine didn’t completely wipe out the most powerful ork. It’s just lore but it’s still disappointing.

The friggin' killed each other, twice. Which means they are equally matched. You seem to be under the odd impression that anything which doesn't end with the utter destruction of the ork's opponents counts as a loss for the orks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Haasbioroid wrote:


I think the only reason Ghaz sold out on the webstore was because people wanted one of the old ones before they were gone for good.

Well, the joke is on them, Failcast Thrakka is a horrible model.

I didn’t move the goal post the beast arises is the next main antagonist after the heresy timeline it’s obvious to anyone as I compared ghaz to prime orks I was talking about the beast arises. The fact you can’t list a single ork that was more powerful as ghaz since then shows that it’s an absolute travesty that Ragnar was able to decapitate ghaz which is NOT a draw. My issue is it took multiple primarchs to take down the primeorks and it took only a single regular space marine to decapitate ghaz. It really doesn’t matter if Ragnar is the chapter champion he was still a regular space marine and not even made primarus yet. It completely downplays Orks.

“ The Waaagh! of The Beast was so powerful that its effect influenced all of his Orks to grow far larger and more aggressive than normal. Even a standard "Beast Ork" Boy towered above a normal Greenskin.”
Predator and prey chapter 1

The larger the waaagh the bigger the ork... the current ork codex says ghaz waaagh is the largest waaagh since the beast arises!!!

gungo wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 Kaptin_Grubkrumpa wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/03/10/the-rumour-engine-march-10th-2020/

Orks in the rumor engine?!

Automatically Appended Next Post:

gungo wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Thrakka is by far not the most powerful ork since the heresy. He might be in the top 100. Seriously, you have absolutely no right to complain about new fluff if you don't even know what has be established for almost a decade.

Feel free to provide an example of a bigger more powerful ork then ghaz that existed after the beast arises timeline...

Way to move the goalpost by two millennia

And ork warbosses size is proportional to the size of thier waaagh energy.

Citation needed.

My issue with this shoddy lore isn’t the fact Ragnar is one of the better space wolf fighters it’s the fact a single generic NON-primarus space marine was able to defeat ghaz...

Look, he is not "one of the better space wolf fighters". He is the best space wolf fighter alive, including their chapter master, wolf lords, and all those primaris guys who have been in the fridge for most of the last century. That's what a Chapter Champion is.
And it's pretty likely that many other chapters who don't rely on close combat don't have someone that could go toe to toe with him.

who is currently larger then a deffdread. It’s a disgrace they made the most powerful ork a basic marine punching bag. But hey at least random named non primarus space marine didn’t completely wipe out the most powerful ork. It’s just lore but it’s still disappointing.

The friggin' killed each other, twice. Which means they are equally matched. You seem to be under the odd impression that anything which doesn't end with the utter destruction of the ork's opponents counts as a loss for the orks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Haasbioroid wrote:


I think the only reason Ghaz sold out on the webstore was because people wanted one of the old ones before they were gone for good.

Well, the joke is on them, Failcast Thrakka is a horrible model.

I didn’t move the goal post the beast arises is the next main antagonist after the heresy timeline it’s obvious to anyone as I compared ghaz to prime orks I was talking about the beast arises. The fact you can’t list a single ork that was more powerful as ghaz since then shows that it’s an absolute travesty that Ragnar was able to decapitate ghaz which is NOT a draw. My issue is it took multiple primarchs to take down the primeorks and it took only a single regular space marine to decapitate ghaz. It really doesn’t matter if Ragnar is the chapter champion he was still a regular space marine and not even made primarus yet. It completely downplays Orks.

“ The Waaagh! of The Beast was so powerful that its effect influenced all of his Orks to grow far larger and more aggressive than normal. Even a standard "Beast Ork" Boy towered above a normal Greenskin.”
Predator and prey chapter 1

The larger the waaagh the bigger the ork... the current ork codex says ghaz waaagh is the largest waaagh since the beast arises!!!

Again, you have to get your facts straight. In no way, did the primeorks require multiple primarchs to stop them. Only Vulkan was ever found during the War of the Beast, and more importantly it was a mutual KO when they both plunged into the WAAAAGH! beam of energy that vaporized both. Also, if you're being all pissy about this, do you know what stopped the entire WAAAGH! of the Beast on Ullanor? A bunch of sisters of silence and a captured weirdboy ritual combo that had them do a reverse WAAAGH! effect that just blew up the Prime-Orks' heads. The dumbest part is that theoretically that's all they need to do again for each emergent WAAAGH!, so personally I prefer them having them to do it the old fashioned way of assassinating Orks personally rather than the "I delete you" button from the Beast Arises series.

A new deffkopta model would make sense, considering the old pewter/resin one is fugly as sin and AOBR is increasingly difficult to get your hands on.
Especially with the recent mega price reduction they got. All they gotta do is release the same profile but with bits to bring back the KMB, Rokkits, Bigshoota, and perhaps 1 other gun (Skorcha?) and they'd sell like hotcakes.

*glances at his 15 deffkoptas* ...well...not sure if i'd buy any though lol

 Vineheart01 wrote:
A new deffkopta model would make sense, considering the old pewter/resin one is fugly as sin and AOBR is increasingly difficult to get your hands on.
Especially with the recent mega price reduction they got. All they gotta do is release the same profile but with bits to bring back the KMB, Rokkits, Bigshoota, and perhaps 1 other gun (Skorcha?) and they'd sell like hotcakes.

*glances at his 15 deffkoptas* ...well...not sure if i'd buy any though lol

I'd just be happy for them to make Bomms a thing for them again too, it was nice having another way to inflict mortal wounds without having to rely on just weirdboyz or the burna bommer.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
yeah and it was holding a pair of binoculars that were very not-ork.
I originally thought that was an orgryn but the ideal time to release any guard stuff is pass so....dunno now

Yeah but look at the arm of the Megatrakk Scrapjet. The hand holding the trigger for the rokkit has a watch on it.


*edit* I just looked at the hand and it has no klaws, so probably not an ork. *edit*

 Kaptin_Grubkrumpa wrote:

 warhead01 wrote:
Ghaz getting his head lopped off by anyone, Yuck. New fluff is garbage. Booking so bad Vince McMahon wouldn't even do it.
GW what are you smoking?

Well I mean, he started by getting a bolter round to the head... so maybe this will make him even stronger than before?

Sure. But he was just one of the boys back then and not the important character he is today. And this is a problem or at least something I don't like because with the removal of Nezdreg, Ghaz is the last big bad the Orks have. Which leads me to wonder just how he even managed to get suckered into a fight with anything as small in size as a Space Marine.
The story sucks so far. Hopefully it leaves the space wolves in a heap of smashed faces. I don't expect the story ti get any better.

gungo wrote:
I didn’t move the goal post the beast arises is the next main antagonist after the heresy timeline it’s obvious to anyone as I compared ghaz to prime orks I was talking about the beast arises.

The entire horus heresy basically started with the fall of a completely different "prime-ork" on the very same planet that would eventually be the home to The Beast and would eventually be called Armageddon by human settlers.
Lumping in The Saga of the Beast with the horus heresy, which happend in a completely different era, is the exactly the kind inaccuracy that prevents you from properly putting both Thrakka and Ragnar in context with existing lore.
Oh, and just for accuracy, after the Horus Heresy, there were multiple wars to cleanse the galaxy of traitor legions, as well as infighting between the lords of terra before the War of the Beast happened two thousand years later.

The fact you can’t list a single ork that was more powerful as ghaz since then shows that it’s an absolute travesty that Ragnar was able to decapitate ghaz

Just because he is the most powerful ork alive doesn't mean he is more powerful than a top combatant of the space marines. After the whole disaster at Ullanor, the imperium founded an entire chapter of space marines dedicated to wiping out warbosses before they come as powerful as The Beast and its prime-orks, which is the reason why there has not been someone as powerful as Thrakka in the last years.

which is NOT a draw.

Ragnar had his arm ripped off and would have died if not for the possibility to make him primaris. How exactly do you determine who won when both combatants are incapacitate and mortally wounded? Even if there were gretchin hold up signs with point values on them, I doubt they would have gone in favor of Ragnar.

My issue is it took multiple primarchs to take down the primeorks and it took only a single regular space marine to decapitate ghaz.

No, your issue is that you fail to understand that a Thrakka isn't even in the ballpark of a prime-ork that fought the primarchs. Once more:

Thrakka is not a prime-ork.

Prime-orks are 9-12 meters tall and talk perfect high gothic with no orkish slurr whatsoever. Neither can be said of Thrakka, at best he is halfway there.

It really doesn’t matter if Ragnar is the chapter champion he was still a regular space marine and not even made primarus yet.

A chapter champion is as much as regular space marine as Thrakka is a regular nob. Seriously, did you even read any of the lore related to this discussion?

“ The Waaagh! of The Beast was so powerful that its effect influenced all of his Orks to grow far larger and more aggressive than normal. Even a standard "Beast Ork" Boy towered above a normal Greenskin.”
Predator and prey chapter 1

The larger the waaagh the bigger the ork... the current ork codex says ghaz waaagh is the largest waaagh since the beast arises!!!

1. 'Multiple exclamation marks, are a sure sign of a diseased mind.' - Sir Terry Pratchett
2. You understand that "the largest since the beast ariseses!!!" means that it's smaller than the Waaagh of the Beast, right? In fact, evidence is crushing that it's still smaller than Waaagh! Urruk who could be killed by single Primarch, Horus.

imagine if they actually gave us proper prime orks....

Probably a Naut-sized ork LoW option lol

 Vineheart01 wrote:
imagine if they actually gave us proper prime orks....

Probably a Naut-sized ork LoW option lol

Meh. Just make the Garg Squig good and I'd be happy.

Orks don't need Herohammer.

 Jidmah wrote:
Thrakka has been know as "The Beast of Armageddon" long before the first Beast Arises novel. Considering he is on the other side of the galaxy now, they just dropped the "of Armageddon" part.

Oh yes, silly me. Any reference to "The BEAST" is obviously a reference to an outdated nickname and has absolutely nothing to do with The BEAST ARISES series.

If you have read the books, you should know that even the smallest of the prime-orks were described as the size of small gargants, which is about the size of a stompa. In the empire of the beast, Thrakka would have been no more than a member of the elite guard serving under the prime-orks, and there were ten thousands of those.

The process of becoming a Prime-Ork takes 1-2 thousand years. It is not (presumably) a quick process. Ghaz is certainly going through it now.

"As close to a primarch to a Primarch as we have" isn't really saying anything. We don't have a primach, just like Tau, Eldar, Necrons, Tyranids, Adeptus Sororitas, Astra Militarum, Adeptus Mechanicum don't have a primarch.
Thrakka is our Eldrad, Shadowsun, Immotekh, Swarmlord, Celestine, Creed or Cawl.
Which, in marine terms, would make him Calgar, Ahriman or Typhus, not Gulliman, Magnus or Mortarion.

The key difference here is that GW had the opportunity to make Ghaz Primarch tier and they have squandered it. That is lame for a few reasons;
1. It makes the Ork threat look utterly inconsequential (why doesn't Guilliman just pop over there and splat Ghaz? Or Magnus? Or Morty? They can't even stand in the same ring)
2. It shows that GW are still focused on the whole "Chaos vs Imperium hurr durr" schtick (and this implies that model releases will be focused on these factions also).
3. Why make Ghazzy Primarch size if he isn't Primarch level?
4. Ghaz was our one lad who could actually win things. He was the Ork that tried and did. That is clearly over.

Ragnar is the Chapter Champion of the Space Wolves. Which means nothing less than that he is indeed the "biggest, baddest Space Wolf" around. Logan (the chapter master) explicitly had him called to handle Thrakka and Ragnar is considered to be the next chapter master, should Logan step down or die.

Sorry he's bigger and badder than Russ is he?

Logan called Ragnar because of some dumb bs vision from a never-before-seen Wolf Priest that told him to.

IMO this is just the wish of having a true primarch mixed with not knowing any of Ragnar's fluff. Which, to be fair, I didn't either until a couple of days ago. But after reading his entire background, I'm fairly certain that he is not a "random nobody" or "weak captain" some people make him out to be.

I'm not saying he's a "random nobody" or a "weak captain". I'm saying that he should be below Ghaz in terms of his "level". Simple as that. Russ is above Ragnar. Logan is above Ragnar. There is no Ork above Ghaz. The peak Ork is no more than a Captain level character? feth off. Yea I'm sure Ragnar is badass (all marines are?), but he's not Russ badass. He's not even Logan. It's predictable, poor writing utterly in keeping with the PA event so far. We'll see what happens in round 2 but I'm expecting Ghaz to be saved by G&Mork before Ragnar finishes the job, which will only reinforce GWs position.

And "getting decapitated" is a much more significant loss in a fight than "losing an arm and having your back broken". One you can survive. The other you cannot. If there was a winner from their mutually destructive first fight, it clearly wasn't Ghaz.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:
The binocular image is definitely not orky. I thought so at first, too, but as was pointed out to me, the hand holding those binoculars 100% does not belong to an ork or gretchin.

It's not 100% anything until it's revealed. The nails might simply not be in shot or difficult to see because of saturation. GW may have even purposefully removed them.

The Weirdnob Shaman has no nails in AoS when the rest of the Ironjaw range does if that is any food for thought. Yeah they arent 40k greenskins but it could be like that. I could see it being an arm to a Kommando Nob, Big Mek or Deffkopta Pilot.

Also I hope the Big Mek if he is getting a model, isnt forced to take a Big Choppa too.

* neither does the Warchanter too, but the Brutes, Mmegaboss and Gruntas definitely have claws. So it isnt a far stretch for a new ork model not to have claws aswell.

flandarz wrote:The Codex is less reliable because GW puts out Chapter Approved, which updates point-costs, on a yearly schedule.

Granted if you write the points on the entry on a post-it it's more reliable. OR even just update them in the codex.

Vineheart01 wrote:Old Zogwort was our warphead character but he never had a model so he went the way of the dodo.
i miss squigifying people with him, even if it almost...never...ever...went off lol

tulun wrote:10 attacks?

And he’s currently 141 points. Woof.

Any bets he’d be able to wreck new ghaz in combat?

He will 100% not be 141 points with 10 A.

Orkimedez_Atalaya wrote:Grotsnik only problem is being an elite choice rather than HQ

In a way that's kinda good also. Unless you maximize Elites.

Kaptin_Grubkrumpa wrote:https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/03/10/the-rumour-engine-march-10th-2020/

Orks in the rumor engine?!

It is going to be deffkoptas, that'll be the saw. A while ago GW posted a brake lever on the handle that was Orky. The entry doesn't have a kit and hasn't since 4th ed. I would also bet that rumour we saw of the Ork boot will be Kommandos (possibly dual kit with Tankbustas) as I don't know any other resin infantry kits Orks have for units.

Until Marines (and the Imperium at large) stops being the protagonists of the 40k universe (in other words, never), they're gonna keep pulling out unlikely victories/stalemates. The best we can really hope for are temporary victories and draws, because the narrative revolves around how the Imperium takes on deadly threats and wins.

 flandarz wrote:
Until Marines (and the Imperium at large) stops being the protagonists of the 40k universe (in other words, never), they're gonna keep pulling out unlikely victories/stalemates. The best we can really hope for are temporary victories and draws, because the narrative revolves around how the Imperium takes on deadly threats and wins.

There's "pulling unlikely victories" then there's "smashing into the middle of the 'greatest WAAAGGGHHH!!! since the Beast and decapitating the Warlord in single combat". One is more acceptable than the other. They are not the same thing.

To be fair, decapitation is roughly as serious for an Ork as the loss of an arm is for a human. Probably less so, if we're being honest. The Codex states that a couple days after a "mortal wound" Orkz have been sighted back on the battlefield and fighting like nothing happened. Conversely, a couple days after losing a limb, a human is still lying in a hospital bed with an easily reopened wound where their arm used to be.

 flandarz wrote:
To be fair, decapitation is roughly as serious for an Ork as the loss of an arm is for a human. Probably less so, if we're being honest. The Codex states that a couple days after a "mortal wound" Orkz have been sighted back on the battlefield and fighting like nothing happened. Conversely, a couple days after losing a limb, a human is still lying in a hospital bed with an easily reopened wound where their arm used to be.

Yes we all know that Orks can survive decapitation. The thing is, without any control of their own body, as just a disembodied head, they're completely and utterly powerless. A Space Marine with one arm can keep on killing for days.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
The process of becoming a Prime-Ork takes 1-2 thousand years. It is not (presumably) a quick process. Ghaz is certainly going through it now.

I agree, but that's still some time to go. Thrakka first appeared "in the late 41st century" and the events of PA end around 111.41k. So he is probably 200-300 years old.

The key difference here is that GW had the opportunity to make Ghaz Primarch tier and they have squandered it. That is lame for a few reasons;

I doubt that they would want to make Thrakka primarch tier. Those are incredibly hard to design, as demonstrated by the three that do have models. Meanwhile, they had a perfectly fine concept for Thrakka that just needed some polishing.
In my opinion Abbaddon/Calgar tier is a much better place to be game wise.

1. It makes the Ork threat look utterly inconsequential (why doesn't Guilliman just pop over there and splat Ghaz? Or Magnus? Or Morty? They can't even stand in the same ring)

Why would they? If anything, Mortarion and Magnus would be cheering him on from the sidelines while he crushes Terra. The only reason Mortarion got off his ass in the eye of chaos at all is because he wants to kill Gulliman.
And Gulliman is kind of busy with keeping the Imperium from collapsing on itself. The Great Waaagh! is probably not on his top priority, considering all the other things going on - including Waaagh! Wazzdakka headed directly for Terra.
On top of that, killing Thrakka is pretty much a suicide mission, as demonstrated by Ragnar.

2. It shows that GW are still focused on the whole "Chaos vs Imperium hurr durr" schtick (and this implies that model releases will be focused on these factions also).

Only Chaos and the Imperium do have Primarchs though.

3. Why make Ghazzy Primarch size if he isn't Primarch level?

Size isn't everything?
They really just increased his size to how large he is in the fluff. I can't find the piece right now, but there is an ancient art with an Armageddon steel legion soldier pointing at Thrakka, who has a mega-armoured nob standing next to him who barely reaches up to his chest.

Ragnar is the Chapter Champion of the Space Wolves. Which means nothing less than that he is indeed the "biggest, baddest Space Wolf" around. Logan (the chapter master) explicitly had him called to handle Thrakka and Ragnar is considered to be the next chapter master, should Logan step down or die.

Sorry he's bigger and badder than Russ is he?

Leman Russ isn't "around".

Logan called Ragnar because of some dumb bs vision from a never-before-seen Wolf Priest that told him to.

That's as much bs as Thrakka getting his head stapled back on. That's how Space Wolves operate.

I'm not saying he's a "random nobody" or a "weak captain". I'm saying that he should be below Ghaz in terms of his "level". Simple as that. Russ is above Ragnar. Logan is above Ragnar. There is no Ork above Ghaz. The peak Ork is no more than a Captain level character?

What I'm trying to tell you, is that Logan is only above Ragnar in rank. Logan himself says that he would struggle to hold his own against him, so Thrakka is fighting someone who has better combat skills than Logan. Ragnar is pretty sure to be chapter master master eventually.

And "getting decapitated" is a much more significant loss in a fight than "losing an arm and having your back broken". One you can survive. The other you cannot. If there was a winner from their mutually destructive first fight, it clearly wasn't Ghaz.

The whole point is that Ragnar could not have survived his injuries if there wasn't the whole "get a new primaris body" thing.
They killed each other. And they both got better.

 Jidmah wrote:
It's not 100% anything until it's revealed. The nails might simply not be in shot or difficult to see because of saturation. GW may have even purposefully removed them.

No, the nails were cleary visible. I can't find it right now because the community pages sucks. Does someone have the picture?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Shower thoughts:

The whole scene with Logan and the wolf priest very reminds me of the beginnings of 80s/90s action hero movies. Something terrible happens/the news of something terrible happening reaches the general/commissioner/head of defense and they stare at the camera and say "Only one man can help us now". Then they proceed to get some bad-ass ex-marine martial artist cop who is then the actual hero. Ragnar is very much that guy, considering how many action movies novels he has stared in.