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Yeah, that's my point. There's some value of him going from AP-3 to AP-4. If his klaw is AP-4 just on his statline when new ghaz comes out, it'd go to AP-5 on the charge with that WT. That's basically no added value whatsoever

Yea because AP5 only strips 2+ native saves completely and except for MANz everything with a native 2+ armor save has an invul backing it up (iirc)

The 4 wounds per phase is suspect....that feels like the kind of bullcrap they'd give a space marine not an ork.
Being a monster is actually really annoying because Dok Tools does not include monster. Unless he has a native FNP, we cannot give him one via painboy and painboys cannot heal him. Which would make 0 sense given how much Grotsnik has repaired this guy, yet cant heal him in game...?

Really hope those arent the truths about his stats. If thats how he is, even if he isnt goff locked, probably not going to be able to use him. You'd be FORCED to Tellyport him because otherwise hes going to be half dead since he cant embark as a Monster and i doubt he's any faster than 6" movement at best (probably still 5"). And of course if you tellyport him auspex is a thing as well as all the 12" deployment restrictions.

Centurions would be an ideal target since they have 4 wounds, a 2+ save and no invuln but other than that, MANZ and the IK with the 2+ save relic it's not doing much

Cents dont have an invul? tbh i dont think ive ever hit them with an AP4 or better weapon to find out lol.
Also theyre rare in my area anyway. For some reason. I actually like them, if i had a marine army id have some even if they werent the current flavor for smurfs tactics.

 Vineheart01 wrote:

The 4 wounds per phase is suspect....that feels like the kind of bullcrap they'd give a space marine not an ork.
Being a monster is actually really annoying because Dok Tools does not include monster. Unless he has a native FNP, we cannot give him one via painboy and painboys cannot heal him. Which would make 0 sense given how much Grotsnik has repaired this guy, yet cant heal him in game...?

I'm wondering if they'll amend Dok Tools to affect monsters. Never made any sense to me a Painboy couldn't try to heal a Squiggoth, and literally in fiction, Grotsnik fixes him up.

Medisquig still works though. Unfortunately, it's <CLAN> locked, so the painboy would need to be a Goff.

Funny side note: Technically, if you make the Stompa a character, it also can be healed with Medisquig. How the hell does that makes sense!

The main issue is, without something like this, he's already useless. If he can be shot off the board in 1 turn Ghazzy is DOA.

I dont believe that profile or source


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Taking 4 max wounds a phase would still see Ghaz getting butchered in a turn, being 9 wounds and still being under character protection is a heck of a lot better than that.

 deffrekka wrote:
I dont believe that profile or source


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Taking 4 max wounds a phase would still see Ghaz getting butchered in a turn, being 9 wounds and still being under character protection is a heck of a lot better than that.

He's closing in on Wraithlord size from the pics. They decided to make him a chonky boy, at some point it's hard to call him under 10 wounds. We've been expecting he might be above 10 with some mechanic to try and keep him alive longer.

I believe this mechanic also exists in AoS, so it's not unprecedented.

It would make him really gimmicky, that's for sure. Some armies like Grey Knights would laugh at the free points, others like Tau...

tulun wrote:

 deffrekka wrote:
I dont believe that profile or source


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Taking 4 max wounds a phase would still see Ghaz getting butchered in a turn, being 9 wounds and still being under character protection is a heck of a lot better than that.

He's closing in on Wraithlord size from the pics. They decided to make him a chonky boy, at some point it's hard to call him under 10 wounds. We've been expecting he might be above 10 with some mechanic to try and keep him alive longer.

I believe this mechanic also exists in AoS, so it's not unprecedented.

Until we get a confirmed leak, or until GW shows us. Id take most leaks with a grain of salt. Hhe very well could be 10+ wounds or he could be like Guilliman who isnt higher than 9. Halving damage against him would be a better mechanic to have whilst being 9 wounds as it would give him effectively double the wounds vs damage 2.

If he's tough enough (T7 or 8), and keeps his 4++, he could probably do fine with a 12 W, max of 4 Damage per phase. At the very least, that's a significant portion of your opponent's firepower devoted to a single model, which gives other units like Gorks, Dreadz, and other chonky boiz a little more breathing room.

If he IS this way, I (sadly) can't recommend him for an Infantry list. You'll have to go mixed or Armor, otherwise he just becomes the only viable target for anti-armor.

I still hope it's more than just his Attacks improving as he takes damage. A Ghaz who gets deadlier to more you hurt him would be awesome.

 deffrekka wrote:


Until we get a confirmed leak, or until GW shows us. Id take most leaks with a grain of salt. Hhe very well could be 10+ wounds or he could be like Guilliman who isnt higher than 9. Halving damage against him would be a better mechanic to have whilst being 9 wounds as it would give him effectively double the wounds vs damage 2.

It's fine to be skeptical, but making the argument that a certain ruleset would be better is not an argument this set of rules is wrong.

Has anyone done a side by side comparison with him and someone like Guilliman? seems like he's bigger at a glance.

flandarz wrote:

If he's tough enough (T7 or 8), and keeps his 4++, he could probably do fine with a 12 W, max of 4 Damage per phase. At the very least, that's a significant portion of your opponent's firepower devoted to a single model, which gives other units like Gorks, Dreadz, and other chonky boiz a little more breathing room.

If he IS this way, I (sadly) can't recommend him for an Infantry list. You'll have to go mixed or Armor, otherwise he just becomes the only viable target for anti-armor.

I still hope it's more than just his Attacks improving as he takes damage. A Ghaz who gets deadlier to more you hurt him would be awesome.

Maybe in a MANz list? MANz are not really efficiently killed by small arms fire anyway. But yeah, if he's your only big target, every anti tank weapon will be tossed his way. I hope he finally get a proper FnP, he's the literal definition of a Cybork.

Ghaz is way, waaaay bigger than Guilliman. G-man is on a 60mm base and is just a large space marine. Ghaz is either on an 80 or 90mm base and much wider. He's probably three times the amount of plastic

Personally i think the character above 10w rule needs to just go away. Theres tons of ways to delete a model once its that close, plus it would help tyranids a ton who really need a bit of help anyway.

The whole degrading thing should be enough of a drawback to being that beefy, and it would prevent sillyness like Gman and Ghaz having less than 10 wounds when they really, really should have more.

But, i dont expect any core rule changes until 9th drops.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Personally i think the character above 10w rule needs to just go away. Theres tons of ways to delete a model once its that close, plus it would help tyranids a ton who really need a bit of help anyway.

The whole degrading thing should be enough of a drawback to being that beefy, and it would prevent sillyness like Gman and Ghaz having less than 10 wounds when they really, really should have more.

But, i dont expect any core rule changes until 9th drops.

Not to mention most models their size makes it near impossible to hide anyways, the only thing I would make an exception for are titanic models like Knights (character rule shouldn't let a screen of dinky guardsmen prevent you from shooting them) or maybe make it so it's closer to AoS, where they get a -1 to hit modifier to shooting attacks targeted towards them if they are within 3" of a unit with 5 (maybe 10?) models or more.

tulun wrote:
They decided to make him a chonky boy,

 flandarz wrote:
which gives other units like Gorks, Dreadz, and other chonky boiz a little more breathing room.

OK @Jidmah - I need to formally request we add a "Chonky Boiz" section of the intro page for players who like their units THICC.

 Grimskul wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Personally i think the character above 10w rule needs to just go away. Theres tons of ways to delete a model once its that close, plus it would help tyranids a ton who really need a bit of help anyway.

The whole degrading thing should be enough of a drawback to being that beefy, and it would prevent sillyness like Gman and Ghaz having less than 10 wounds when they really, really should have more.

But, i dont expect any core rule changes until 9th drops.

Not to mention most models their size makes it near impossible to hide anyways, the only thing I would make an exception for are titanic models like Knights (character rule shouldn't let a screen of dinky guardsmen prevent you from shooting them) or maybe make it so it's closer to AoS, where they get a -1 to hit modifier to shooting attacks targeted towards them if they are within 3" of a unit with 5 (maybe 10?) models or more.

Agreed, knights would be an exception, or any titanic (i.e. our stompa character in a Stompa Mob shouldnt be protected)

It makes sense for an utterly massive character to not be protected. 10w is pretty dang low though.

Here you go.

Nice, tulun! Seems you were right or this is a solid fake

PiñaColada wrote:
Nice, tulun! Seems you were right or this is a solid fake

Given the art too, quite a fake.

Not Goff locked.

I’m thinking the best way is the tellyporta. I think infantry style can work, you’re just focusing on a turn 2 charge, and hoping he makes that 60% charge.

Maybe like 2-3 squads of kommandos coming out of DS, supported by Stormboyz and a Da Jumped / ran up unit?

Hmm, that's dissapointing. 14pl translates to about 280pts ish
Gorks roar also, meh.
I was hoping for some built in teleporta. The auras are a bit pump too, only affecting Goffs.

Great model, will definitely buy, but it's only coming out for fun games.

He gives rerolls in to Goffs so he's still better with them but even with him being the only goff it's still good. I'm slightly sad that he has just 5 attacks in top bracket though. And, not that it's super important, that he's only S5 in the last bracket

I look forward to the "Gaz can only take 4 wounds total from shooting over the course of a game" arguments, as it doesn't specify each phase of each turn.

Still, at least that buys you two turns of using him before he gets gunned down, and that 7" move is faster than I expected.

Good job. The goff aura is new as well, and 7" move isn't bad at all. Tellyporta probably still is mandatory though, just like for deff dreads.

Mork'z Roar is kinda disappointing. Unless you're shooting Gretchin or Guardsmen, it probably ain't killing nothing. And we're Primaris saturated.

Gork'z Klaw ain't bad, but kinda just cements Ghaz as a vehicle/monster killer. Which can be a problem with his degrading Strength, even with his extra attacks. And considering his gun is better suited to chaff, he's in kind of a weird spot for fitting into your list.

Makes me wish Ramming Speed included Monsters.

The inclusion of Stikkbommz is weird since Mork'z Roar is better in every way and can be used in every situation they can be used in.

Still, he appears to be fairly durable and pretty fast (for an Ork), even if you footslog him, he can probably still put in some work.

PL 14 is 2 higher than his "current" PL, and 1 less than a Gorkanaut/Morkanaut, so he's probably gonna be around 290-300 pts.

No FNP, and Painboyz won't be able to help him. :(

Don't pair him with Kommandos or StormBoyz. They seek different targets than he does. Da Jump up some Klaw Nobz or MANz, and utterly decimate a vehicle.

Makari.

Is it worth taking him in a patrol detachment with some grots just to actually get that goff kultur (assuming you have enough detachment slots)?

tulun wrote:
Here you go.

You're doing Gork's work Tulun.

PiñaColada wrote:
He gives rerolls in to Goffs so he's still better with them but even with him being the only goff it's still good. I'm slightly sad that he has just 5 attacks in top bracket though. And, not that it's super important, that he's only S5 in the last bracket

At first I was disappointed at the S5 but then realised that it affects little because S10 is approximately as good as S14 and it's only on the last 1-2 wounds.

The non-Goff locked is huge, for me at least as a loser fluffy player.

The max 4 wounds a phase is real interesting and I'm sure it can be used to cause some major issues for certain factions.

Not sure the Goff bonus will be any good without Goffs receiving some serious other buff(s).

So Doks don't work on him at all, which I think is dumb......but Grot Shields do.....?!!!?!

Edit - Oh gak Makari is Ghaz's FNP you guys!

There is no reason not to take a battalion. 3x10 gretchin + Thrakka + Makari should be about 400 points

Unless they revamp the Goff Kultur, it still ain't worth taking it. The Goff Warlord trait though? That might be good. And because Ghaz is still a Goff character, you can take it even if the Detachment he's in isn't Goff.

@AAE: grotshield are infantry only