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 Vineheart01 wrote:
considering ive always played there has to be a door or bigger than a slit window to move through a ruin anyway that doesnt really bug me.
What makes no sense is going through a solid wall w/o fly. If anything a monster should be the one able to do that, not infantry lol (bulldoze right through it)

As infantry are assumed to be armed with breaching gear to get through walls and locked bulkheads. This dates all the way back to like 5th edition, but without assault grenades they would fight last when charging through terrain. Vehicles and Monsters could move through ruins with Vehicles risking being immobilised and Monsters having Move Through Cover so they ignored it and rolled 3d6 pick the two highest for the distance theyd go.

Oddly GW went the opposite direction this edition and now these big stompy destructive war beasts cant smash through a wall, they have to go round. Even if it were like a general strat for 1CP to move through ruins it would change the play style of certain Vehicles and Monsters. 8th is very dumbed down and backwards in many regards.


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Like Harlequins with their flip belts, they could be in a fully enclosed ruin, with a roof, no windows or doors, no battle damage anyway. Its existentially a box. Say it has 2 more levels identical to it, no hatches to get up there. They can back flip their way to the very top because thats what the rules are, when in past editions it would of been impassable.

The more I think about this, the more I can't wait for the lols the first time I play someone with Ghaz and just camp a ruin so he can't do a thing other than maybe fire his failcannon at few times.

9th edition will be postponed (insider news apparently) so having Ghaz and other MCs go through ruins will not be an option until... whenever 9th edition comes out. And perhaps 9th won’t even change that because GW maybe thinks it’s fine for MCs to be blocked this way by ruins and other scenery.

Anyway I am sure we will get GSC treatment with the exception that some options will rise atop the heap of rubbish options to help us play Ghaz and some buggies. Something for the « new » models, and garbage options for the rest of the ork model range to shift some kits around, coherently with chapter approved point drops.
We will make something ok out of it all, don’t worry too much

Are you talking about using the magic box strat everyone is already doing? Or just normal ruins? With actual gaps? Cuz, if the latter, you know your opponent has another 1700ish pts of army to shoot you with, right? If the former, you stopped him in exactly the same way that you'd stop literally anything else.

Half of our Codex can't enter ruins (or doesn't want to), so Ghaz not being able to isn't a huge deal.

Just normal ruins. In ITC, the bottom floor blocks LOS, so you can hide from guns, but that's not really the point. Of course there's the rest of their army. But the point was all you gotta do to make Ghaz even bigger junk than he already is is be anywhere near a ruin...which are everywhere.

A combat-focused model with a 7 inch movement even at the top bracket, no fly, that isn't infantry just isn't really usable in competitive play. The fact that he also has a massive base and no horde-clearing option for close combat is just the nail in the coffin.

I mean this is how bad it is: against chaff, if you've got a big unit of boyz and him, you're usually better off *not* charging with Ghaz if you're trying to wipe the unit, because you lose more damage from the boyz his base blocks from getting within 1 inch than Ghaz actually puts out himself!

This is a model whose only use is to kill other tough units in close combat...with a 7 inch movement and no advance and charge, that doesn't have fly *or* infantry. Total /fail in 8th edition.

Or, since Ghaz doesn't want to fight Infantry anyway (his Klaw is statted for Monsters and Vehicles), you just ignore the Infantry and go after things that can't hide from you? Like Leviathans, for example. Like, seriously... why would I send Ghaz after an Infantry unit? I got better options for them.




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It'd be like saying "look at how awful these Tankbusters are against Infantry! Garbage unit!"

Show me a player who lets you charge their prized vehicle or monster with a model with 7 inch movement, no advance and charge, and no fly or infantry keyword...and I'll show you a non-competitive player.

I get that you want him to be competitive, but if he is, it'll only be through sheer cheapness because he is literally set up to fail in 8th edition in almost every way. It's hard to think of a less promising combination of stats and keywords in the 8th edition rules. He's got *nothing* going for him except the "4 wounds per phase" thing.

Unless of course there's some stratagem in the book that mitigates the huge /fail that is his basic statline and keywords. But we're all going on what we know now. And what we know is...not pretty.

Well, considering you got a 48% chance to make a Charge out of Tellyporta with him, I imagine that using Lootaz, Gitz, Boyz, or something else to clear the chaff first, then throwing him at what they were screening should work fairly often. We already do this with Dreadz and Warbosses (which have worse versions of Ghaz's stats and keywords), so I doubt it would take a non-competitive player to allow this to happen.

 flandarz wrote:
Or, since Ghaz doesn't want to fight Infantry anyway (his Klaw is statted for Monsters and Vehicles), you just ignore the Infantry and go after things that can't hide from you? Like Leviathans, for example. Like, seriously... why would I send Ghaz after an Infantry unit? I got better options for them.




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It'd be like saying "look at how awful these Tankbusters are against Infantry! Garbage unit!"

Sometimes you cant dictate what your unit fights, and if people wanna lock Ghaz up with a horde of cheap bodies they will and he has no way out except to punch his way out all game.

I agree that DS is the only realistic way to use him, but...a sub-50% chance to charge with a unit that's useless if it doesn't make the charge is not competitive unless we're working under very different definitions of what competitive means. That means literally half your games, even if you do manage to clear the screen and they aren't wising up and using terrain to deny you a 9 inch charge option, your strategy fails. That's not competitive.

Compared to almost any of your other deep-strike options Ghaz just doesn't get there. Anything else you'd DS bomb with has a 70% or better chance to hit that charge.

That's fair, though I imagine you'll have a group of Boyz close enough to Ghaz to charge into that unit and free him up. Or do like you would with anything you don't want tied into cheap chaff combat and either screen, or position them so they can't get surrounded.

Like, I feel a lot of this "Ghaz sucks" attitude rides on the opponent making perfect choices and the player makes all the worst choices.

That's what competitive play is all about. If your opponent isn't playing competently, you're not playing competitively. That doesn't mean people never make mistakes, but it does mean you have to assume they won't make obvious mistakes.

A 7 inch movement model with a close combat focus, a huge base, no fly, no anti-horde (the gun really doesn't get there) and no infantry keyword is just not set up to succeed competitively. I will reserve complete judgment until we have the whole book... but it's difficult to see how the basic setup of the new Ghaz could be any *less* amenable to competitive play.

My opinion on Ghaz is thus: I'll place him during Deployment in my mechanized list. His presence should be enough to draw fire from my Buggies, Dreadz, or anything else I want to field. If it isn't, I should be able to get him to charge into something he wants to kill. If it does, I've saved these other units from a minimum of 4 damage per shooting phase, which is also fine.

You missed the second part where I said "and you make all the worst decisions".

 flandarz wrote:
That's fair, though I imagine you'll have a group of Boyz close enough to Ghaz to charge into that unit and free him up. Or do like you would with anything you don't want tied into cheap chaff combat and either screen, or position them so they can't get surrounded.

Like, I feel a lot of this "Ghaz sucks" attitude rides on the opponent making perfect choices and the player makes all the worst choices.

Yeah screening is fine, but at the cost that Ghaz will probably be in addition to all the other necessary units that are in the army, there wont be much pts in the way of getting a good screening presence that will still be easily blown away in this day and age of 40k. Footslogging Ghaz is pretty much a no go unless by some miracle GW actually gives us back Bullyboys to take wounds off Ghaz like drones. I suspect GW thinks Ghaz is crazy strong and thus not done that or anything else to help him get across the board, charge better or be even more survivable.

If you are like me and Jidmah, we do Buggy armies so Ghaz doesnt necessarily have a place for us either unless we tweak our lists and build it around him. Im not saying he is A grade burning dumpster fire tier bad, I think he CAN work, but its going to take MORE effort and luck. Those type of things are usually ironed out in competitive lists, you cant build lists around luck. Ive seen some crazy lists in my past, taking top 5 in tournies across the UK, but they arent usually the norm and rely on surprising the opponent.

Dont get me wrong, I want Ghaz to be good, just like you! Im going to get his model off ebay (as no one wants to split a box with me), but I just dont know how ill even begin to do a list for him. Like most buddy-ing Warbosses on here, im not a fan of the Goff klan trait, and Orkz are already grossly over pointed that I dont want to spend over an 8th of my list on a single character. I already hate how we pay so much for our stuff compared to the Imperials and Eldar. We cant even take squadrons of vehicles anymore outside of Dreads, Kans and Buggies. Ghaz needed to do more for the army outside of SMASH STUFF GUD! to be viable for me. His datasheet doesnt scream "smart tactical ork warlord" to me.

Right, and if that's fun for you, go for it. The game isn't mostly about competitive play.

But "saved these other units from a minimum of 4 damage per shooting phase" is not a competitive choice unless he's like 120 points or something silly like that.

I mean maybe we are just using different definitions of competitive here, because a mechanized list with ghaz is not something I'd ever consider competitive. You're paying a huge amount of his points for the buff auras that only hit infantry, so it's going to be a huge waste of points to run that in a list that doesn't get anything out of those auras. It's like an even more extreme form of not running him goffs re: what you're paying points for that you can't use.

Plus you're already gimped vs terrain in that sort of list, so doubling down with yet another model that can't navigate ruins is going to leave you even more vulnerable to anybody who can use terrain intelligently.

By "competitive" I mean "would you see this in a serious tournament list?" And it's very, very hard to see how a unit with such smattering of all the terrible keywords and attributes in 8th edition could be tournament competitive.

I do think he'll be fun in a more relaxed environment.

So, to help contribute with this, let me ask thusly:

What's the best way to run Ghaz? (Assuming the leaks are accurate.)

 flandarz wrote:
Well, considering you got a 48% chance to make a Charge out of Tellyporta with him, I imagine that using Lootaz, Gitz, Boyz, or something else to clear the chaff first, then throwing him at what they were screening should work fairly often. We already do this with Dreadz and Warbosses (which have worse versions of Ghaz's stats and keywords), so I doubt it would take a non-competitive player to allow this to happen.

I believe the charge rate is 58%, given the individual rerolls we can do with 'Ere we go.

Which is still a bit inconsistent for a 300 point model. Risking that on, say, a 90 point Deff Dread feels a lot better.

Yeah I thought 'ere we go was more like 57%, going up to 72% with ES. Honestly it's been so long since I've run anything with 'ere we go that charges out of DS without them being ES I don't remember the number off-hand, lol.

 JNAProductions wrote:
I do think he'll be fun in a more relaxed environment.

So, to help contribute with this, let me ask thusly:

What's the best way to run Ghaz? (Assuming the leaks are accurate.)

Dude, I think everyone has already said tellyporta.

 JNAProductions wrote:
I do think he'll be fun in a more relaxed environment.

So, to help contribute with this, let me ask thusly:

What's the best way to run Ghaz? (Assuming the leaks are accurate.)

Spoilers confirmed on official facebook for Ghaz, this is it.

I think without knowing more about what we get in PA, which might actually shake this up, it seems the rough consensus so far is:

1) Take him as another distraction in a mechanized list, as he is actually quite resilient and hard to ignore. Lascannons on him means lascannons not on your Mork, Gork, Buggies, Mek Guns.

2) Beta strike him out of the tellyporta with a bunch of other stuff arriving then too (Kommandos, Stormboyz, other Boys in tellyporta), and even if he fails the charge, he makes those units stronger.

One other use I see: He seems INSANELY well setup to wreck aggressors and centurions. Against RG and that ilk, he might easily make his points back especially if you keep him healthy with Medisquig.

Honestly, against armies that are trying to close in on you, he seems like a crazy countercharge.

Yeah, I'm not trying to argue that Ghaz is the best option we got. Just that you can use him in a competitive list without hurting yourself. Even before the point drops, we were seeing some unusual choices (at the time) popping up in Ork top 4s. I think it'd be foolish to believe that, in the future, you won't see one that has Ghaz in it.

tulun wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
I do think he'll be fun in a more relaxed environment.

So, to help contribute with this, let me ask thusly:

What's the best way to run Ghaz? (Assuming the leaks are accurate.)

Spoilers confirmed on official facebook for Ghaz, this is it.

I think without knowing more about what we get in PA, which might actually shake this up, it seems the rough consensus so far is:

1) Take him as another distraction in a mechanized list, as he is actually quite resilient and hard to ignore. Lascannons on him means lascannons not on your Mork, Gork, Buggies, Mek Guns.

2) Beta strike him out of the tellyporta with a bunch of other stuff arriving then too (Kommandos, Stormboyz, other Boys in tellyporta), and even if he fails the charge, he makes those units stronger.

One other use I see: He seems INSANELY well setup to wreck aggressors and centurions. Against RG and that ilk, he might easily make his points back especially if you keep him healthy with Medisquig.

Honestly, against armies that are trying to close in on you, he seems like a crazy countercharge.

Crazy countercharge but he's actually worse than before at fighting assuming you can use 3 CPs to fight again

One neat note: when you use Orkz is Never Beaten with him (assuming he's in CC), he can put in some real good work.

KurtAngle2 wrote:


Crazy countercharge but he's actually worse than before at fighting assuming you can use 3 CPs to fight again

Moving to flat 4 damage makes him better against assault cents, which are a scourge against Ork armies.

But yeah. At least we still have the Character death strat for 2 CP. If he dies in melee, the unit he's fighting gets smacked for 7 str 10 attacks, re-rolling 1's to hit... Solid chance the unit gets decimated or dies unless they are sporting a good invul and a ton of wounds. Potentially more if he's the warlord, and has been buffed (current max of 11 attacks).

I know the talk is all about Ghaz right now (don't blame you) I am curious about a few things if you guys could help a newbie:

-Can you use Telleporta multiple times?

-I want to run a Dread Waaagh anyone had any success with that formation?

-Best way to kit out Deff Dreads? Going to be Deathskullz

-Killa Kans worth it?

Thanks guys I appreciate the feedback

 gmaleron wrote:
I know the talk is all about Ghaz right now (don't blame you) I am curious about a few things if you guys could help a newbie:

-Can you use Telleporta multiple times?

-I want to run a Dread Waaagh anyone had any success with that formation?

-Best way to kit out Deff Dreads? Going to be Deathskullz

-Killa Kans worth it?

Thanks guys I appreciate the feedback

1) Yes, since it's used outside of a phase. But it does cost you CP each time.

2-3) No clue.

4) Generally not.

 gmaleron wrote:
I know the talk is all about Ghaz right now (don't blame you) I am curious about a few things if you guys could help a newbie:

-Can you use Telleporta multiple times?

-I want to run a Dread Waaagh anyone had any success with that formation?

-Best way to kit out Deff Dreads? Going to be Deathskullz

-Killa Kans worth it?

Thanks guys I appreciate the feedback

No point answering these questions until saga is out.

Killa kans are currently garbage but GW have stated there’s Grot Clans and these might make them viable. I’d recommend waiting. Magnetise your Deff dreads. Tellyporta can be used multiple times. Dread Waaaagh keeps competitive Orks viable thanks to the relic SAG.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:
I know the talk is all about Ghaz right now (don't blame you) I am curious about a few things if you guys could help a newbie:

-Can you use Telleporta multiple times?

-I want to run a Dread Waaagh anyone had any success with that formation?

-Best way to kit out Deff Dreads? Going to be Deathskullz

-Killa Kans worth it?

Thanks guys I appreciate the feedback

No point answering these questions until saga is out.

Killa kans are currently garbage but GW have stated there’s Grot Clans and these might make them viable. I’d recommend waiting. Magnetise your Deff dreads. Tellyporta can be used multiple times. Dread Waaaagh keeps competitive Orks viable thanks to the relic SAG.

Appreciate the feedback, I know about magnetizing and all that but is there any good way to run Deff Dreads that we know of?

 gmaleron wrote:

Appreciate the feedback, I know about magnetizing and all that but is there any good way to run Deff Dreads that we know of?

As Deathskull, I like Klaw, Klaw, KMB, KMB or Klaw, Saw, KMB, KMB.

Ghaz does look good against assault centurions, it seems like the only target he's likely to make back his points against.