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 Strat_N8 wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
How many times and at what str will a dead ghaz strike for the never beaten strat? He ain't got no 0 wound profile...

Lashwhip Tyrants were specifically clarified in the Tyranid FAQ to perform their post-death attacks using their lowest profile, as was anything with a table using the Tyranid fight upon death stratagem. Most likely Ghaz will too.

Yes, I was also thinking about that « jurisprudence ». These 7 attacks will clear lots of stuff, especially if he was first of gorked (9 attacks !!). But will it matter much ?

laughed at the new article saying at the end "so grab ghaz a battlewagon for old times sake"

I mean its possible theres a stratagem where he embarks but that would be immensely weird, and probably only in an open-topped so doubt anyone would wanna do that

 Billagio wrote:
Moving away from the Ghaz talk for a second, ive been out of the loop for a while and am getting back into things...Is the Morkanaut better than Gork now? Ive been seeing it a lot in batreps using that kustom ammo stratagem, when I left it seemed the prevailing wisdom was Gork > Mork

I magnetized mine to be fair it was a tough one to do.

I’m kinda annoyed by the ghaz release however I was thinking an easy way for them to fix ghaz profile to add more anti horde so he doesn’t get bogged down in chaff is give him a stikk bomb flinga an additional 2d6 str 3 ap- atks would solve that issue with hordes and provides a reason for the stilkbombs over the new gun.

If the box set is 105 Pounds, and that price is from GW does that mean a 3rd party retailer will be less expensive? (20% off or so?)

Just a few points about tellyporta Ghaz.

You can tellyporta multiple units. You can also use Da Jump and deep strike stormboyz and Kommandos.

There's your chaff solution. If Ghaz shows up turn 2 they can't kill him until after that turn. Ghaz draws frantic fire which is not directed at your Boyz. Deep struck units provide bubble wrap against panic charges and smites. Consequently his chance of lasting until turn 4 drastically increase. Turn one Da Jump 40 man boyos to clear chaff and drill deeper into enemy lines.

DISCUSS!!!n!

personally if i were facing ghaz i would not be putting any weapons that i'd normally want hitting boyz into his face.
Unless he was at 1-2 wounds and i COULD kill him if i did poke him some more.

Ghaz isnt going to draw attention from boyz, nobz, manz, or even bikers. He's gonna draw it from vehicles, the stuff that actually CAN hurt him also hurts the vehicles.

edit: now that would be an interesting interaction with his no more than 4 wounds thing if nearby infantry were untargetable. Would have to have special clauses to still allow it such as closest unit otherwise that would be bonkers broken, but still interesting thought

 Kaptin_Grubkrumpa wrote:
If the box set is 105 Pounds, and that price is from GW does that mean a 3rd party retailer will be less expensive? (20% off or so?)

My LGS will be doing it for £80.75, and I asked the only Space Wolves played if he wanted to split it and he said no! So If i can get Ghaz from between £35-40 off eBay I will be. If not ill simply wait 6 months. The Nobs and Meganobs arent doing it for me. I have 15 Meganobs and 40 Nobs... If it were a Deffdread and a completely new kit to make Bully Boys I would have been all over it.

 flandarz wrote:
KFF Mek was listed in the FW part of CA, so I doubt it.

Nah. I have the CA here with me. KFF mek is in regular section. Warboss on bike is in FW section. Maybe you mixed with that?

Would be odd to have in FW section seeing mek w/KFF has never been FW unit. At least bike warboss had model in FW section. Mek never had.

gungo wrote:

 Billagio wrote:
Moving away from the Ghaz talk for a second, ive been out of the loop for a while and am getting back into things...Is the Morkanaut better than Gork now? Ive been seeing it a lot in batreps using that kustom ammo stratagem, when I left it seemed the prevailing wisdom was Gork > Mork

I magnetized mine to be fair it was a tough one to do.

I’m kinda annoyed by the ghaz release however I was thinking an easy way for them to fix ghaz profile to add more anti horde so he doesn’t get bogged down in chaff is give him a stikk bomb flinga an additional 2d6 str 3 ap- atks would solve that issue with hordes and provides a reason for the stilkbombs over the new gun.

If it were a flinga he would fire both as the flinga isnt a grenade weapon its assault. They wont be doing anything to Ghaz overall except maybe changing his Great Waaagh! to affect him. We are stuck with his current iteration until we get a codex rewrite which even then they might not change him. If PA6 is a general bust for the Orkz (just look at how Space Wolves themed it is, the cover art, the new audio book, new series of novels, the name of the actually PA, I have a sneaky suspicious were gonna get the Nid and GSC treatment, even if Nids didnt get it that rough really) then my last hope is for CA2020 to FINALLY PT ORKZ CORRECTLY. Im sick to the bone paying more for units and weapons to other army equivalents. Im actually hoping CA2020 will raise the pts costs of other armies as they are all way to cheap. I still havent gotten over the fact Boyz cost 7ppm......

vineheart01 wrote:personally if i were facing ghaz i would not be putting any weapons that i'd normally want hitting boyz into his face.
Unless he was at 1-2 wounds and i COULD kill him if i did poke him some more.

Ghaz isnt going to draw attention from boyz, nobz, manz, or even bikers. He's gonna draw it from vehicles, the stuff that actually CAN hurt him also hurts the vehicles.

edit: now that would be an interesting interaction with his no more than 4 wounds thing if nearby infantry were untargetable. Would have to have special clauses to still allow it such as closest unit otherwise that would be bonkers broken, but still interesting thought

Ghaz should be able to pull aggro from MANz. They ain't got high Toughness, but that 2+ and 3W makes them prime targets for anti-armor.

tneva82 wrote:

 flandarz wrote:
KFF Mek was listed in the FW part of CA, so I doubt it.

Nah. I have the CA here with me. KFF mek is in regular section. Warboss on bike is in FW section. Maybe you mixed with that?

Would be odd to have in FW section seeing mek w/KFF has never been FW unit. At least bike warboss had model in FW section. Mek never had.

Yeah. That's my mistake.

My local store just announced 170.00 dollars for the preorder. And they never give a discount on anything. So you can pretty much guarantee that’s the retail in the US.

Will Zagstruk get another look amongst all of this Ghaz talk?

I kind of like him but he never seemed worth it for taking a Goff detachment alone.

Zagstruck is awesome but his issue is he's primarily there for the auto-stormboy morale.
But, if youre running ghaz in a goff, that opens the door to actually use the guy. So thats a plus.

Zagstruck is really screwed by not having the advance and charge aura. I guess you could DS him and a bunch of stormboyz with ghaz...but why?

One of the things suggested was tellyport ghaz, dajump a boy squad, and DS in stormboyz or sneak in kommandoz.
If you go with stormboyz, might as well bring Zag. I've used him randomly on his own and hes decent just locked to a bad kulture.

Sure, but DS stormboyz are only good at MSU because they get free DS (and even then kommandos are usually better, and either way not taking them as ES is mental), for something like a max size squad you're better off shelling out the 1cp for a boyz squad instead that costs 60 points less and can use UGT.

Anyone recognise the clan markings on this rumour engine image?
Judging by the light paint scheme I’m thinking possible Snakebites or maybe one of the hinted new clans.

 TedNugent wrote:
Just a few points about tellyporta Ghaz.

You can tellyporta multiple units. You can also use Da Jump and deep strike stormboyz and Kommandos.

There's your chaff solution. If Ghaz shows up turn 2 they can't kill him until after that turn. Ghaz draws frantic fire which is not directed at your Boyz. Deep struck units provide bubble wrap against panic charges and smites. Consequently his chance of lasting until turn 4 drastically increase. Turn one Da Jump 40 man boyos to clear chaff and drill deeper into enemy lines.

DISCUSS!!!n!

And the bolded bit is the problem that I think everyone is getting wrong. Ghaz doesn't draw frantic fire. For a start, the weapons that hurt Ghaz are not as well used against Boyz. Secondly, once the opponent has done 4 wounds that phase to Ghaz, they know to ignore him until another. Finally, we're all banking on a <50% charge chance unless you're happy spending CP to try and make it. Roughly 50% of those units don't get in. On bad days, none of them do.

Ammo Pouch wrote:
Anyone recognise the clan markings on this rumour engine image?
Judging by the light paint scheme I’m thinking possible Snakebites or maybe one of the hinted new clans.

When show casing Orkz, GW tends to always go for Bad Moons, so I would guess its Bad Moons if that Big Choppa is Orkz (which it should be as its matches existing kits like the Deffdread, Killakans and Nobs) and not Necromunda instead. Outside of Bad Moons maybe Goffs to tie in with the focus on Ghaz. Snake Bites arent really a big show case klan, the only model weve had in their colours is the Rukkatrukk really.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
One of the things suggested was tellyport ghaz, dajump a boy squad, and DS in stormboyz or sneak in kommandoz.
If you go with stormboyz, might as well bring Zag. I've used him randomly on his own and hes decent just locked to a bad kulture.

Yeah, tellyporta Ghaz up where the Stormboyz wanna charge if they are on the board. Zagstruk keeps them fearless.

Honestly, if you deep strike them, just keep them as Evil suns.

I think he'd be actually even potentially good on his own as you said. He's like 70 points, good keywords, and has a pretty good # of attacks. If you go the triple bat route, he could replace Makari. I'm not really convinced by the grot yet.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
Just a few points about tellyporta Ghaz.

You can tellyporta multiple units. You can also use Da Jump and deep strike stormboyz and Kommandos.

There's your chaff solution. If Ghaz shows up turn 2 they can't kill him until after that turn. Ghaz draws frantic fire which is not directed at your Boyz. Deep struck units provide bubble wrap against panic charges and smites. Consequently his chance of lasting until turn 4 drastically increase. Turn one Da Jump 40 man boyos to clear chaff and drill deeper into enemy lines.

DISCUSS!!!n!

And the bolded bit is the problem that I think everyone is getting wrong. Ghaz doesn't draw frantic fire. For a start, the weapons that hurt Ghaz are not as well used against Boyz. Secondly, once the opponent has done 4 wounds that phase to Ghaz, they know to ignore him until another. Finally, we're all banking on a <50% charge chance unless you're happy spending CP to try and make it. Roughly 50% of those units don't get in. On bad days, none of them do.

Can't reroll a reroll, so spending a CP doesn't help you with the charge. I don't think there's anything you can do to improve Ghaz' charge chances, unless there's a new strat, or I'm missing something.

'ere we go charge chance is like 57.5% IIRC, so slightly better than 50%. But nowhere near able to rely on. Almost half your games he's not going to be able to charge till T3.

Don't forget that Ghaz's Waagh works on any Kultur, so you can bring in ES Boyz/Stormboyz/whatever.

Spending a CP can help, if you only rerolled one dice with 'ere we go.

But yeah, Ghaz doesn't draw fire from anything that isn't a Vehicle or a MAN. That said, he still draws a lot because you have to declare targets when you choose a unit to shoot with. Between his Toughness and Invuln, and assuming a BS3+ S8 Dd6 weapon, your opponent would need to devote roughly 9 shots at him to get an average of 4 Damage on him. That's pretty significant, and if you're lucky, your opponent may need to target him again with another unit.

Until FAQ clarified/errata'ed you could reroll one dice out of your two with CP reroll(since that has to be done before anything else) and then if still fail 'ere we go reroll.

So say you roll 5 and 3. Drat. Failed. Super important, reroll 3 with CP. Still 3. Well ere we go and roll the 5 fishing for 6.

Tiny boost in odds, costs 1CP you have to commit. Not that good and FAQ made it so you have to declare all rerolls before you roll dice so that option went away. You could use CP reroll to reroll 1 dice and 'ere we go 2nd dice but you have to declare before rerollign any dice so you commit on rerolling both 5 and 3 in this example...And at that point might just as well use 'ere we go to rr both...

No, that doesn't work. You have to use the command reroll strat after rolling the charge, but before doing anything else, like rerolling one die with 'ere we go. Once you use 'ere we go on one die, you lose the ability to reroll the other with a CP.

You could CP re-roll FIRST, THEN do 'ere we go on the other die, but I'm not sure when that would really make mathematical sense.

edit: Oh, that's been FAQ'd away too? Which FAQ was it?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, here it is, the 2019 update:

Q: If I have access to several abilities that allow me to re-roll a
single dice, can I use more than one of these to affect a roll that
includes more than one dice? If so, how is this applied?
A: If you have more than one ability that allows you
to re-roll a single dice (for example, the Gaze of Fate
psychic power and the Command Re-roll Stratagem),
you can use both of these to re-roll the same 2D6, 3D6
etc. roll, but must declare any re-roll abilities that you
wish to use before any dice are re-rolled. Note that each
individual dice that makes up that roll can still only be
re-rolled once.

I think the key phrase there is "ability that allows you to reroll a SINGLE dice". Whether it would apply to 'ere we go, which allows a reroll of all dice, is unclear. That said, it sounds very gimmicky, so I'll concede regardless.

'Ere we go allows you to reroll a single dice. It also allows you to reroll two dice, if you so choose. If you're using it to reroll two, you obviously can't reroll either. If you're using it to reroll one dice, that FAQ comes into play, because you're using an ability that lets you reroll one dice.

You would have to declare CP reroll before rolling with 'ere we go and as you can't reroll rerolled dice you would be left with reroll single dice from 'ere we go and so we are left with two ability giving reroll of single dice and back to FAQ.

For curiosity's sake wonder how much of a boost it is and what situation would warrant paying 1CP rather than take free reroll just for sake of the tiny boost to odds...

Well, any time you roll a 4 and a 4, or something like that. You would go from a 33% chance that your reroll gets you in to a ~42% chance (eye-balling the math) that your double reroll gets you in. That's the biggest additional chance I think, for most rolls it would be a very insignificant boost.

But you can't do it, so it doesn't really matter.

 Emicrania wrote:
So help me out here. Monster means the he cannot:
- walk thru ruins
- fight 2nd floor
- be jumped
- be healed by painboy
- fight twice
- be embarked on a veichle
- use Waaagh

Am I missing something?

My proposed fix is to make him infantry and make him take up 5 or 6 slots in a transport. 5 would be ideal because even in transports that only fit 6 models he could still ride with his buddy, Makari. This would alleviate all of the above problems. I pray to Gork and Mork, that GW do this.

if you make him infantry he'd be nearly unkillable as he is.

Grotsnik is moderately resilient to snipers (not amazing but way better than painboys) and he'd be healing ghaz for 2D3 every turn (normal heal + medisquig) while only taking a maximum of 4 until melee happens.
You pretty much would never kill him until you got at Grotsnik or you managed to psyker/shoot/melee him in 1 round. Which is possible, but up to 50-50 luck holding strong due to that invul.